Nessa
Apr 11 2007, 01:41 PM
QUOTE
We'd all like to think that people can make changes, learn to compromise, and make their relationship stronger. Unromantic men can learn to buy a card every once in a while; women who nag can learn to stop themselves at least a few times they see toothpaste in the sink, or whatever it is. But those are small changes. The big changes -- the changes that can make or break a relationship -- are the ones most of us are really concerned about. And perhaps the biggest question of all -- when you consider that 25 percent of men admit to cheating in relationships and about 15 percent of women do -- is this: Can cheaters change? Is cheating an inherent personality trait or a controllable behavioral one? Can a guy -- or gal -- who strays learn to be a house cat?
For these purposes, we'll consider cheating full-on sexual contact -- not only sex, but also its close relatives. (I fully know that 60 percent of men say that even having drinks with an old flame is cheating, 50 percent of men say visiting strip clubs is cheating, and virtually all women say emotional betrayal is worse than physical betrayal. So I know cheating is complicated, but here, we'll go with the traditional "Where did my underwear go?" definition.) The average woman says that the No. 1 reason for divorce is infidelity -- so that indicates to me that for women, their answer is no, cheaters can't change (or if they do, they don't believe he deserves a second chance). After I give you my take, I'd love to hear your thoughts about this very question, because I think your perception of this issue may very well depend, in some major way, on whether you've been burned -- or have done the burning.
Can Cheaters Change? Not a chance!
Once someone crosses the line in the relationship (again, that line being different things to different people, but for argument's sake, we're talking here about the horizontal hora), it's like a seal being broken on a pill bottle. Though some of it may depend on whether it was a drunken fling or an ongoing stealth hookup with someone at work, the fact is that once that trust is compromised, the offender will have a hard time resetting the relationship to its startup condition. Even if the victim accepts the offender back into the relationship, the offender will be likely to stray again -- because he knows he's already gotten away with it once. The bigger picture, really, is the fact that he (we'll assume the cheater is a he; sorry, guys) cheated for a reason -- that something in his current relationship -- for example, one study showed that couples with infidelity issues showed greater dishonesty, arguments about trust, narcissism, and time spent apart -- made him explore other options. And that's ultimately what makes him prone to do it again. But...
Can Cheaters Change? Absolutely!
Just because someone has cheated in one relationship doesn't mean that he's always a cheater in his next relationships -- for the very same reason. In the relationship where he cheated, he was willing to gamble it away. So if he enters a committed relationship where he feels there's much more to lose, there's a less likely chance he'll want to risk it. Does that mean he won't, or that he couldn't succumb to the temptations of the tight-topped bartender? Of course not. Cheating certainly can make some relationships impossible to continue, but some infidels can indeed change -- that is, if he hopes to make other relationships even remotely possible.
LinkSo what's your opinion?
jasman0717
Apr 11 2007, 01:45 PM
Once a cheater always a cheater
CherryXS
Apr 11 2007, 01:56 PM
There are examples of adulterers who turned faithful (after religious experience)--enough said.
keltic
Apr 11 2007, 01:59 PM
i think anything you do that you would hide from/comes between you & your partner is cheating... talking to someone of the opposite sex online could or could not be cheating... i have friends of both genders online that i chat with... BUT, my hubby knows all of them and even chats with them too sometimes... so, neither my hubby or i would consider that cheating...
now if it becomes sexual in content or were i to try to hide it from my hubby, then i would consider it cheating and im sure he would as well (and of course, i would never do this)
and as far as porn is concerned, if it is something your partner/spouse chooses to do INSTEAD of being with you, then that is cheating as well
Magenta
Apr 11 2007, 02:35 PM
The majority of people who cheat don't change. But I'm sure there are one or two people out there who have done it once and then never done it again.
rebeccajo
Apr 11 2007, 03:19 PM
I'm surprised to see that most people consider emotional cheating and physical cheating to be equal to each other.
Welshcookie
Apr 11 2007, 03:46 PM
As a 'former cheater' I voted yes

..... learnt a tough lesson.
Welshcookie
Apr 11 2007, 03:48 PM
QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Apr 11 2007, 09:19 PM)

I'm surprised to see that most people consider emotional cheating and physical cheating to be equal to each other.
If I was to be cheated on I would hope it to be the latter...
Alex+R
Apr 11 2007, 03:51 PM
I voted no but then I remembered that I decided they can change. It's weird when you forget your opinions...
Jenn!
Apr 11 2007, 03:53 PM
QUOTE(Alex+R @ Apr 11 2007, 04:51 PM)

I voted no but then I remembered that I decided they can change. It's weird when you forget your opinions...

Sometimes when an old poll gets resurrected, I'm very curious about how I voted. I wish we could see our original answers. I'm sure I felt very strongly about it at the time.
LaL
Apr 11 2007, 03:53 PM
QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Apr 11 2007, 04:19 PM)

I'm surprised to see that most people consider emotional cheating and physical cheating to be equal to each other.
i voted romantic & physical were equal because while it would sicken me to think of sexual relations between my husband and another person, it would crush me in a completely different way to think that he was *in love* or romantically involved with someone else. different but equally damaging.
doc_cute
Apr 11 2007, 03:57 PM
cheaters cant change in same circumstances
but if they r made to realise in their lives then ofcourse they can be changed i feel
~Chad~
Apr 11 2007, 04:40 PM
A tiger cannot change it's stripes
consolemaster
Apr 11 2007, 04:45 PM
Cheaters can change, for the worse.
Caladan
Apr 11 2007, 04:55 PM
I think cheaters can change, but that in many cases, it's not worth the time or effort to see if they can.
charles!
Apr 11 2007, 05:34 PM
QUOTE(CherryXS @ Apr 11 2007, 01:56 PM)

There are examples of adulterers who turned faithful (after religious experience)--enough said.
or if one's wife is this gal
MPGGPM
Apr 11 2007, 05:37 PM
Cheaters can change......................but as much as they can change............so can a relationship.
Were my spouse ever to do such a thing, it wouldn't matter to me whether she felt contrite about it or not, and what effect it had on her.
The most important thing, would be my feeling toward her..............and how it would never be the same...............knowing in my mind that she felt just as strongly about someone else, so much so...............that she was willing to risk our marriage for it.
Above all in my marriage...I want passion. And how I could EVER have that, knowing she just slept with someone else....................I really don't know or understand how others do it. But personally...............I never could.
As soon as I felt that passion for me was lost, so much so, that she was willing to give it all for someone else..................the relationship could never be the same.
I am not just out to "settle". I am out for unconditionally love...........so strongly............that neither of us could feel that way.....except for one another.
The moment that feeling has been lost...................................that is the moment in my mind, that the marriage has been as well.................
Caladan
Apr 11 2007, 05:46 PM
I also expect that a lot of the 'I would leave' answers change once kids are born and finances are co-mingled. It's easy to say 'I'd leave' when you've just got yourself. But if you're a stay-at-home mom and you have a new baby and no income? You probably are more inclined to try to forgive.
Aymerlu
Apr 11 2007, 05:46 PM
once a cheater....always one!
sereia
Apr 11 2007, 07:15 PM
i voted cheaters can change... im a former cheater (mind you i was a teenager at the time. excuses, excuses. i know)
but i would NEVER cheat on my current fiance. and absolutely not when we're married. never.
cheaters can change.
KarenCee
Apr 11 2007, 07:36 PM
I'm not an advocate of "situational ethics" but I do think one should look at the reason for the cheating. I do realise there are some that cheat for the sheer thrill of it...that's not what I'm referring to here, but think, couldn't there be a reason one *would* cheat on their spouse? Problems in the marriage...one refusing to meet the needs of the other...neglect maybe, abuse maybe. I guess you could say I'm playing devil's advocate here, but personally I feel that if the cheating occurred due to some problems in the relationship, and those problems were worked out, I truly believe the cheating would not occur again. Just MHO.
garyandmarylou
Apr 11 2007, 07:47 PM
QUOTE(Aymerlu @ Apr 11 2007, 05:46 PM)

once a cheater....always one!
Ditto!!!!!
de_sjiem
Apr 12 2007, 01:07 AM
QUOTE(MPGGPM @ Apr 11 2007, 06:37 PM)

I am not just out to "settle". I am out for unconditionally love...........so strongly............that neither of us could feel that way.....except for one another.
I find it interesting that you say that you want unconditional love, and yet say that you couldnt accept a spouse cheating on you... the very definition of unconditional love is love no matter what... and that would include cheating. Like KarenCee said, there can be many many reasons for a spouse or SO to cheat.. unconditional love accepts everything of their partner, the good and the bad...
I say i have to agree with what KarenCee says.. cheaters can change, and sometimes there are reasons behind that behaviour
wherezdabearz
Apr 12 2007, 01:57 AM
I think that a cheater could change if he/she really wanted to. But I wouldn't want to risk a relationship with someone who had that kind of history. Let them test out how much they've changed on someone else.
carla-justin
Apr 12 2007, 02:44 AM

I changed!!
Jabberwocky
Apr 12 2007, 05:02 AM
QUOTE(KarenCee @ Apr 11 2007, 05:36 PM)

I'm not an advocate of "situational ethics" but I do think one should look at the reason for the cheating. I do realise there are some that cheat for the sheer thrill of it...that's not what I'm referring to here, but think, couldn't there be a reason one *would* cheat on their spouse? Problems in the marriage...one refusing to meet the needs of the other...neglect maybe, abuse maybe. I guess you could say I'm playing devil's advocate here, but personally I feel that if the cheating occurred due to some problems in the relationship, and those problems were worked out, I truly believe the cheating would not occur again. Just MHO.
Very insightful!
MPGGPM
Apr 12 2007, 05:25 AM
QUOTE(de_sjiem @ Apr 12 2007, 02:07 AM)

QUOTE(MPGGPM @ Apr 11 2007, 06:37 PM)

I am not just out to "settle". I am out for unconditionally love...........so strongly............that neither of us could feel that way.....except for one another.
the very definition of unconditional love is love no matter what...
You have a pretty broad definition of that term.
Neverminding the fact that you ignored the rest of that statement, and the fact that 2 people who felt so strongly about each other.....................wouldn't be going around cheating on each other in the first place...........
But, aside from that fact.........
I think most people who read what I wrote would understand and have the common sense to know that it doesn't necessarily mean to accept EVERYTHING someone does.
I mean.......let's say for example............if my wife decided to rob a bank today, and maybe in the process happened to blow away 2-3 people with a shotgun.........
Well...........I would think if something that drastic were to happen in a relationship ..........it just might make a difference in how I would feel towards my wife later in the day when she came home.
So obviously, by use of that term...............it was not used so literally and broadly to accept "anything" a person does, and as I said before, I think most people understand that. Your definition of that term and my definition of it obviously vary.
But the whole point is.....................2 people who love each other so strongly would NOT be cheating in the first place...........so any argument over it is moot.
Because it would never happen..........to begin with.
consolemaster
Apr 12 2007, 05:29 AM
CHEATING = LOVE ?
Weird.
Nagishkaw
Apr 12 2007, 05:44 AM
Lying to other people always leads to self - deception. Sneaky plots engender stupidity in the sneaky plotters.
rebeccajo
Apr 12 2007, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(KarenCee @ Apr 11 2007, 08:36 PM)

I'm not an advocate of "situational ethics" but I do think one should look at the reason for the cheating. I do realise there are some that cheat for the sheer thrill of it...that's not what I'm referring to here, but think, couldn't there be a reason one *would* cheat on their spouse? Problems in the marriage...one refusing to meet the needs of the other...neglect maybe, abuse maybe. I guess you could say I'm playing devil's advocate here, but personally I feel that if the cheating occurred due to some problems in the relationship, and those problems were worked out, I truly believe the cheating would not occur again. Just MHO.
I kind of think that even if your marriage is in the dumper, you can still keep your pants zipped or your knickers on.
Alex+R
Apr 12 2007, 10:52 AM
QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Apr 12 2007, 10:30 AM)

QUOTE(KarenCee @ Apr 11 2007, 08:36 PM)

I'm not an advocate of "situational ethics" but I do think one should look at the reason for the cheating. I do realise there are some that cheat for the sheer thrill of it...that's not what I'm referring to here, but think, couldn't there be a reason one *would* cheat on their spouse? Problems in the marriage...one refusing to meet the needs of the other...neglect maybe, abuse maybe. I guess you could say I'm playing devil's advocate here, but personally I feel that if the cheating occurred due to some problems in the relationship, and those problems were worked out, I truly believe the cheating would not occur again. Just MHO.
I kind of think that even if your marriage is in the dumper, you can still keep your pants zipped or your knickers on.
If one person, say, one-sidedly declares that sex is no longer part of the marriage, I think after awhile the partner whose needs are not being met has the right to ask to cheat/find fulfillment elsewhere now and again, if the two decide that option is better than divorce. But only if they decide that together. I think that is one situation where cheating can be a workable solution.
eta: I know that situation is rare, as most couples would be too jealous for that, and usually one partner holding out ruins a relationship. Just talking about those who aren't.
Happy Bunny
Apr 12 2007, 12:37 PM
QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Apr 11 2007, 04:19 PM)

I'm surprised to see that most people consider emotional cheating and physical cheating to be equal to each other.
I voted emotional cheating is worse.
sereia
Apr 12 2007, 02:03 PM
i voted emotional cheating is worse too. way worse!
derekkj
Apr 12 2007, 03:06 PM
QUOTE(Alex+R @ Apr 12 2007, 11:52 AM)

If one person, say, one-sidedly declares that sex is no longer part of the marriage, I think after awhile the partner whose needs are not being met has the right to ask to cheat/find fulfillment elsewhere now and again, if the two decide that option is better than divorce. But only if they decide that together. I think that is one situation where cheating can be a workable solution.
eta: I know that situation is rare, as most couples would be too jealous for that, and usually one partner holding out ruins a relationship. Just talking about those who aren't.
That sounds more like surrogacy than cheating to me.

Cheating is not acceptable to me for any reason, but I am sure there are couples out there who can work though it. It's their life and their decision, not mine.
A.J.
Apr 12 2007, 03:07 PM
QUOTE(Alex+R @ Apr 12 2007, 11:52 AM)

If one person, say, one-sidedly declares that sex is no longer part of the marriage, I think after awhile the partner whose needs are not being met has the right to ask to cheat/find fulfillment elsewhere now and again, if the two decide that option is better than divorce. But only if they decide that together. I think that is one situation where cheating can be a workable solution.
eta: I know that situation is rare, as most couples would be too jealous for that, and usually one partner holding out ruins a relationship. Just talking about those who aren't.
Interesting.
Alex+R
Apr 12 2007, 03:57 PM
QUOTE(Gupt @ Apr 12 2007, 03:07 PM)

QUOTE(Alex+R @ Apr 12 2007, 11:52 AM)

If one person, say, one-sidedly declares that sex is no longer part of the marriage, I think after awhile the partner whose needs are not being met has the right to ask to cheat/find fulfillment elsewhere now and again, if the two decide that option is better than divorce. But only if they decide that together. I think that is one situation where cheating can be a workable solution.
eta: I know that situation is rare, as most couples would be too jealous for that, and usually one partner holding out ruins a relationship. Just talking about those who aren't.
Interesting.
Is that almost the same as the couples where one person realizes they are gay, but then they decide to stay together anyway as best friends (for the kids, the mortgage, the country club membership, whatever) or is it different? If you take the sex out (or at least the desire to have it with each other regularly), does it make it just a friendship?
Happy Bunny
Apr 12 2007, 03:59 PM
Well, it all depends really on 'What defines a marriage?' but then again, that's like asking 'how long is a piece of string?'
Omoba
Apr 12 2007, 04:04 PM
QUOTE(LisaD @ Apr 12 2007, 03:59 PM)

Well, it all depends really on 'What defines a marriage?' but then again, that's like asking 'how long is a piece of string?'
I like that analogy
Karin und Otto
Apr 12 2007, 04:07 PM
Most men cheat whether or not their home sex life is active. To them...it's about getting some 'strange.'
And don't kid yourselves...men don't cheat for 'emotional' companionship...
Alex+R
Apr 12 2007, 04:22 PM
QUOTE(Karin und Otto @ Apr 12 2007, 04:07 PM)

Most men cheat whether or not their home sex life is active. To them...it's about getting some 'strange.'
And don't kid yourselves...men don't cheat for 'emotional' companionship...

I think that is the kind of cheater who is a cheater for life, and probably won't change unless something happens to them to force them to actually grow up (hard for many men).
I do think some guys cheat to get what they're not getting at home. Some women certainly do too. Everybody has needs and it can be pretty hurtful in an emotional way if they aren't met.
~Chad~
Apr 12 2007, 07:05 PM
I was with a girl on and off for 6 years. Everytime I got on she told me to get off.
Her idea of a sex life was once every couple of months or so, but I'm proud to say I never cheated on her. I guess I'm not "most" men.
Nessa
Apr 12 2007, 07:39 PM
QUOTE(Alex+R @ Apr 12 2007, 10:52 AM)

If one person, say, one-sidedly declares that sex is no longer part of the marriage, I think after awhile the partner whose needs are not being met has the right to ask to cheat/find fulfillment elsewhere now and again, if the two decide that option is better than divorce. But only if they decide that together. I think that is one situation where cheating can be a workable solution.
eta: I know that situation is rare, as most couples would be too jealous for that, and usually one partner holding out ruins a relationship. Just talking about those who aren't.
I think if they're consenting then it's not cheating. It's like wanting to spice your relationship by having a 3some or another couple to join you and consider that cheating just because your partnet will be having sex with someone else doesn't necessarily means they're cheating. Not if you know about it, agree with it and in some case are even part of it.
Nessa
Apr 12 2007, 07:45 PM
QUOTE(abdounjen @ Apr 12 2007, 02:03 PM)

i voted emotional cheating is worse too. way worse!
I voted that too. There's no comparison. Maybe I see sex diferently, but if my partner allowed himself to have feelings for other person it would'nt be nowhere close to as hurtfull as if he just (sorry the language) fuc**d someone else. I wouldn't want to try to forgive him or work on our marriage. It would definitely be a deal breaker.
Nowaday I still can't forgive cheating, but I know that having kids change everything and even though I think it's best for some kids to have happy separated parents than having parents living together and fighting all the time, I still believe that depending on the case, some couples should try to work on their marriage after 1 sexual (not romantic) cheating episode.
Robert and Tanya
Apr 12 2007, 08:35 PM
I almost got into that kind of situation. My husband almost kissed one of his friends. She came over to our place and invited both of us to go to the movies. When I went to the bathroom in the middle of the movie she tried to kiss him and touch his thing. He ignored her and didn't let her. So I think I can trust him so far.
I voted that cheater is always a cheater. I am sorry but that's how it works most of the time, unfortunately.
TracyLuis
Apr 12 2007, 10:04 PM
I voted that a cheater can change, but I wouldn't even give them the chance.
As for the second voting option, I put "Other" because there was not an "All of the Above".
Nessa
Apr 13 2007, 12:31 PM
QUOTE(TracyLuis @ Apr 12 2007, 10:04 PM)

I voted that a cheater can change, but I wouldn't even give them the chance.
As for the second voting option, I put "Other" because there was not an "All of the Above".
The second option was multiple choice, so you could easily vote all of them
KarenCee
Apr 13 2007, 03:32 PM
QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Apr 12 2007, 11:30 AM)

QUOTE(KarenCee @ Apr 11 2007, 08:36 PM)

I'm not an advocate of "situational ethics" but I do think one should look at the reason for the cheating. I do realise there are some that cheat for the sheer thrill of it...that's not what I'm referring to here, but think, couldn't there be a reason one *would* cheat on their spouse? Problems in the marriage...one refusing to meet the needs of the other...neglect maybe, abuse maybe. I guess you could say I'm playing devil's advocate here, but personally I feel that if the cheating occurred due to some problems in the relationship, and those problems were worked out, I truly believe the cheating would not occur again. Just MHO.
I kind of think that even if your marriage is in the dumper, you can still keep your pants zipped or your knickers on.
That's true too, and in the case of my ex I kept my knickers on.
charles!
Apr 15 2007, 05:13 PM
QUOTE(Alex+R @ Apr 12 2007, 10:52 AM)

If one person, say, one-sidedly declares that sex is no longer part of the marriage, I think after awhile the partner whose needs are not being met has the right to ask to cheat/find fulfillment elsewhere now and again, if the two decide that option is better than divorce. But only if they decide that together. I think that is one situation where cheating can be a workable solution.
that's why they make vibrators and porn mags
BrianElla
Aug 22 2007, 06:59 AM
A leopard never changes his/hers spots.
there's a big difference between a one-night-stand kind of cheating and a-whole-affair kind of cheating. i'd find the latter extremely hard to forgive, mental loyalty is too important. the first kind is easier to forgive, but it's more likely to repeat.i think it also matters (to whether or not it will happen again) how it happened - some men don't seek to cheat, but if a girl offers herself, they don't refuse.such variety, even in cheating! People can indeed change, BUT it takes something pretty bad to happen for that to occur. Something life altering, or heart wrenching.
Or there is the thought that if someone cheats, they aren't really in love. Maybe when they ARE completely in love, cheating would never be a possibility.
there's a distinction to be made, it seems, between staying faithful because it's a principle you have (thou shalt not cheat ) vs. staying faithful because you truly love your partner.
However, I would have an incredibly hard time trusting someone who has cheated
Sinergy
Aug 22 2007, 08:16 AM
Cheating is cheating and once someone does it then they will do it again. kissing is cheating. holding hands is cheating, calling the opposite sex more than he/she calls you is cheating. yea, im anal when it comes to the topic of cheating. never done it, had it done
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