A few months ago I filled out a free profile at a international dating site. A number of people contacted me but I saw something very special in just one. We decided to meet not long ago and it went even better than I hoped.
Should things continue in this mode I wonder how the new law concerning IMBA could effect me. Other than getting her free email forwarded to me in the beginning we had all contact and meetings on our own.
Now I worry if I claim We met through this typical dating site (which deals with a large volume of international folks) without filling out some form we might have problems.
Maybe it is better to just say I was on vacation and we met on the street or via skpe or something?

Danno

* there is always a fly in the ointment.

trust me, its best to be honest. Many people met on similar dating sites, and had no problems.

My Grandmother always taught me...."Always tell the truth..because in a pinch, it's the easiest to remember."

(And "It's better the fight for a truth than defend a lie.")

Read up on IMBRA; from what you've posted it isn't clear whether your dating site would be classified as a marriage broker or not. ("Free" is suggesting to me "not a marriage broker", since one of the criteria seems to be "asymmetrical payment", but you'll have to read it yourself.)

But even if you did use a marriage broker, IMBRA doesn't mean you're automatically denied. (Check out the IMBRA forum; there's more than one person in a similar situation.) It's just an extra step, and they're more interested in scrutinizing the broker than anything else. Lots of people use dating sites.

Lying, however, could get you both in a lot of trouble. So, um, don't do that.

Why even consider lying. What's the big deal with going through the process.

A lot of people have met through the internet and started long distance relationships, that doesn't qualify for IMBRA. IMBRA comes into place when you actually pay money to a marriage broker to find you a spouse and you then get engaged or married to the person they found you, not if you happen to find someone you like in a forum or online dating site.

I was probably wrong on my previous post. I did some more checking on this and this is what I found, you'll find your answer in there. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t=0&start=0

My fiancee and I met thru a dating site where he paid a monthly subscription to correspond with female prospects. After a week of exchanging email with him, we decided to use our personal accounts and then, he unsubscribed from that site. Having said this, we fell under IMBRA law. We honestly admitted that we met thru an IMB and as you can see, we're almost on the last phase of the K1 journey, which means we didn't have any problem, whatsoever for being honest about it... Read on IMBRA thread, you'll learn more from there.

Good luck!

Mae

Many of us met on through an IMB. No one is being denied yet.

If you are the US Citizen and you did not pay a fee it does not qualify as an IMB. You can answer no to that question and be honest.

It never pays to lie. That is the biggest mistake you can make.

The details of the law are posted here in many places. If you did not pay a fee it is not an IMB. If it i a religious based orgainization it does not fall under IMBRA. The later does not apply to you but the former gives you clear sailing.

Just answer no and don't sweat it.

Hmmm so if I used a site that has free and paid memberships, I need to look back to see if i was a paid member at the time? I have already sent in my application....If i can even find out if I was a member at the time, paid that is, how should I handle this? This was back in 2004 we met online, and a week later we were online through yahoo or something, I even forget how we did that.
Bobbie

I'm curious about this too. Because we did use a website to meet, and I checked yes about the IMBRA thing because it seemed right. I've started to question if I should have done that. One of us had to have an paid account, so it did cost money. But it was also religion based. And it was not country based, although you were asked if you would consider moving to another country (because it wasn't just people in the US on the site).

"If you are the US Citizen and you did not pay a fee it does not qualify as an IMB." (Turboguy)
Is that true? He didn't actually have to pay either (there is a story behind that) but normally the males would pay but it was free for females.

So I'm concerned that I didn't need to check that box and it is slowing down our petition? Petitions of people in similar cases took less time for NOA2 than ours is (I know vsc is quicker than others, that's not the point). I mentioned in the supplement to the question on 129f about meeting, that the site we met on was religion based and maybe it wasn't exactly an IMB.... so maybe it was a Very Bad Idea to mention that?

BT

stick to the truth
even i met my husband on a matrimonial site
honesty is the best policy buddy
just have lots of evidence of an ongoing relation and tht will help a lot
good luck for future

I think I just didnt understand it when i filled it out, and i dont know if we paid, but it was a domestic site and not directed at foreigners......
why must they make it so complex

bobbie

i didnt understand your question completely
do u mean by your post tht u met your person thru a domestic site and u were the foreigner to tht site ??

No, he is in Germany, I am in FLorida. The site is just a normal dating site, and it is not directed at foreign people. I have no idea if I was a paid member at the time we met or not. But I know I paid some sites during tht time period, so I could have been, but if it is a site directed at the usa, then....well i am wondering if I have messed up my application now. I recommend people read on this VJ for a month before the application, this site has so many knowledgeable people. I think USCIS should invite ppl here to be part of a think tank to make their department better.

yes bobbie
i too dont know about that one ,
may be some one can give good suggestion about u filled tht one in application form
but yes this site is must before filling up any forms
even i did a very minor mistake in one of my forms but thankfully i got connectd to vj and the mistake was corrected
for all those who dont want to hire an attorney unnecessarily should be in the visa forum

What if in the websites terms and conditons (before you pay any monthly fee -also can have a free account) it lists the following:

4. THE SERVICE

The Service is an internet information service that facilitates contact between members who may or may not be seeking friendship or a relationship. It is not a marriage brokering service, mail order bride service nor a matchmaking service. The Company is under no obligation to broker any other member or members for you.

Honesty is always the best policy.

[quote name='Danno' date='Apr 8 2007, 07:59 PM' post='826650']
A few months ago I filled out a free profile at a international dating site. A number of people contacted me but I saw something very special in just one. We decided to meet not long ago and it went even better than I hoped.
Should things continue in this mode I wonder how the new law concerning IMBA could effect me. Other than getting her free email forwarded to me in the beginning we had all contact and meetings on our own.
Now I worry if I claim We met through this typical dating site (which deals with a large volume of international folks) without filling out some form we might have problems.
Maybe it is better to just say I was on vacation and we met on the street or via skpe or something?

Danno

* there is always a fly in the ointment.

My fiance and I met through an internet marriage site. It was not one that charged and we just met there and started corresponding and soon it took off. That was 2 1/2 years ago. He just got approved for his Visa to Usa. we told the truth . and it was no problem. Just be very honest always. Good luck.

You need to be honest. Whatever you do, don't lie because if you were found out being dishonest, it can lead to serious consequences. You have gotten a lot of good advise so far and everyone agrees that honesty IS the best policy.

In my opinion, I think as long as there's no membership fee involved or someone didn't pay for anything, it doesn't fall into IMB category... Since my fiancee had to pay $25 a month, we thought it's just right that we check "YES".

Mylene and I met at a asianeuro.com a site exactly as you have described and my NOA-2 was issued on Mar. 29 with no imbra information filed

Just tell the truth. It's not a big deal. I met my fiancee through the internet. Following is the how I found out the term USCIS has defined as "International Marriage Broker". This should help for anyone in the future if they have questions regarding the same situation on their I-129F form.

What is the definition of "International Marriage Broker (IMB)"? Are there exceptions? Does this law apply to my favorite international correspondence website on the Internet?

Answer: IMB is defined very broadly in this law, as are all relevant terms in this law. (Bo Cooper, former INS General Counsel from several years ago, actually drafted this law; he sits on the board of directors of the feminist Tahirih Justice Center and intended to provide broad abuse protection to immigrant fiancées and brides.)

The definition of IMB, under Section 833(e)(4)(A), is any corporation, individual, or legal entity, whether or not existing under the laws of the U.S., who charges fees for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking or social referrals or is "otherwise faciliating communication between individuals."

There are, under Section 833(e)(4)(, TWO IMPORTANT EXCEPTIONS, : 1) "The Non-Profit": a traditional matchmaking organization of a cultural or religious nature which offers its services on a non-profit basis under law, tyically a state-registered corporation, and 2) "The Non-Primary Business with Comparable Rates": a domestic dating service or other primary service whose principal business is NOT international dating and which charges comparable rates for comparable services to all individuals, men and women, domestic and foreign.

Your favorite international correspondence website on the Internet would in fact be subject to this law, IF the exceptions enumerated above do not apply.

Some U.S. clients and IMBs are asking if the IMB would "qualify" for an exception if they don't charge fees for the lady's personal contact. The safe answer would appear to be: only if the other qualifications of Exception No. 1 apply. An IMB's claim to an exception based in the statement that "We don't charge fees for lady's contact or any dating service", but coupled with an admission that the company generates revenue and profits, however small, from such things as advertising fees for related services such as flowers, candy and cards, Google "ad-words", or charitable donations from members, carries a risk that the "non-profit" exception does not genuinely apply.

At this point in time I think everyone is worrying about IMBRA unnecessarily. They are not paying much attention to that question. I have heard of no denials over it or even anyone being asked about it. I would not be surprised if in the future it will be a bigger issue. I think everyone is feeling their way through compliance right now and IMBRA had faced court challenges which unfortunately for the time being were decided a couple of weeks ago in favor of the government.

The following are some of the things that make it NOT an IMBRA qualified MOB site.

If the US citizen did not pay a fee
If the agency does 50%+ of their business connecting US residents with US residents.
If the agency is religious based.

Since the ruling challenging IMBRA by European Connectins was decided a few weeks ago I see a lot of the agencies searching for infomation about complying and how to obtain criminal background checks. I think any serious enforcement is a while off and the only way they can enforce it with an offshore business is to come down on us by refusing visas to those who met through an agency that did not comply. If that day ever really does come it is going to be a real fiasco for us.

The part that really stinks is the intent of the law is to protect uninformed female K-1 immigrants against domestic abuse which is good in theory. In practice there has only been one good study done on Domestic abuse among MOB's That was by the US government in 1999. They found that the rate of domestic abuse in these marriages were 1/7th the rate of marriages between american men and american women. So all this is to fix a problem that doesn't exist all because the few times it did happen they were high profile cases that caught the attention of the news media.

At this point it is better to be honest. No one is getting denied or questioned over it anyway. Perhaps in the future the government will succeed in turning us all into liars and cheats because we must. I hope not.

One might argue that being the victim of abuse in a foreign country where you don't speak the language and are too scared to report it because someone is holding your green card over your head probably depresses the numbers somewhat, and one might further argue that it's more serious when a foreigner with no support network is abused as her (or his) options for escape are limited -- no friends and family or established career. And that the potential for being taken advantage of is a lot greater when the relationship is mostly over the Internet with a barely shared language. (Yes, yes, everyone has no secrets, which is why there are all the posts saying 'should I tell my fiancé about my past?' prompted by the worry that IMBRA will reveal it.)

Check out the 'effects of major changes' forum... seems to be a number of cases just there.

But the purpose of the law is to bring the marriage brokers into compliance and to inform the foreign fiancée that her American lover has a history of domestic violence or drinking... it doesn't mean that she's denied a visa, just that she knows what she's getting into.

When you fill out a petition for the USCIS, you need to be concerned with whether the service falls under the legal definition of an IMB, not whether they call themselves a marriage brokering service in their own terms and conditions. That quoted text doesn't tell me anything one way or another about whether or not they'd be considered an international marriage broker under IMBRA. Basically, if they introduce people, and they don't fall under one of the exceptions listed in the IMBRA, then it's safest to consider them to be an international marriage broker for the purposes of your immigration paperwork.

Danno,

The issue of primary concern here is not how you met, the issue is whether or not there's something nasty in your background that your alien fiancee should know about to make a fully informed decision as to whether or not she should risk coming to the USA to marry and live with you.

IMBs are targeted by the law because some USCs who use IMBs do have something ugly in their background, more so than USCs who meet foreign partners by other means, and the bad actors tend to not let their foreign partner know about their bad habits.

So, got any skeletons in your closet? If not, having met through an IMB is of no consequence.

Yodrak

When it requires a criminal background check before you can even say hello seems to adverise everyone looking for a bride overseas as abusers and users to me.

Here's one of my other gripes. Under IMBRA the agency needs to do a criminal background check before you can even say hello to a lady. So if someone uses 3 or 4 or even 10 agencies to look for a wife then that is 3 or 4 or 10 agencies that have to do criminal background checks that you may have to pay $ 50 or more for. Then when it is all done USCIS does another.

I can think of a dozen ways to accomplish the same or more with less hastle, couldn't they even think of one?

Always tell the truth when dealing with USCIS.

Thanks for so many responses.

Let me be a little more specific.

I placed a free profile on bride ru and one of the ladies who responded has turned out to be the lady I expect to do a k-1 with.

Bride ru is a pay site to buy addresses but my profile was free and of course the ladies can contact the guys for free so while it cost me nothing, I am concerned because it clearly would be considered an marriage agency.

I don't think the law considers (or cares) whether or not I paid but, if it is a business in general.

I certainly don't want to lie, but if they might use this as a way to shoot my application down, I will give it consideration.

I will have to read more into this, I have not been to the IMB forum yet, I guess I better get busy

Turboguy believes no one is getting rejected over this, is anyone aware of any cases which might be of interest on this topic?

Ya if I was supposed to check the IMBRA box, I will check but the petition is already gone, first NOA in hand, now what? Plus, frankly I am still unsure if I am supposed to, I cant tell if i was a paid member at the time we met. B ut I woudlnt mind on erroring on the side of caution and saying yes, but...do i call them and ask?

I would just leave it go now. I think if you call and ask you will only make problems for yourself. They won't check if you were a paid member or not.

turboguy, IMBRA doesn't presume you're an abuser any more than the requirement of a medical exam presumes my fiancé has AIDS. *Everyone* has to demonstrate IMBRA compliance by checking a box on a form, and the marriage broker has to demonstrate compliance by following whatever their rules are. It's not really an imposition on your liberty to make the marriage broker follow some rules.



Calling and asking isn't likely to help, as whoever answers the phone probably won't have any more clue than you do.

So, read up on the law. There's a wealth of information here. But keep in mind that not every dating site with a fee is marriage broker. Turbo's post is a good start, but there are posts here with the text of the law and good discussions of it.

Thank you I will do exactly as you have suggested!
Bobbie

Don't lie!

we met the old fashioned way: on yahoo..lol

Lie or tell the truth on government forms....hmm....geee......

I met my fiance on Russianeuro.com I payed the monthly subscription, she did not. I felt I fell under their definition of IMBA. However I did not like their wording of the question so I wrote a supplement to the question and stated we met randomly and it was similiar to a yahoo personals, etc. I don't know if the supplement will help but it cant hurt. At the very least it will help lead the officers mind in the right direction.

Can someone pls give more info on IMBRA ?

thanks ,

There are a couple of sticky posts at the top with a lot of info on IMBRA and i think the text of the law.

We wrote a letter addressed to the website owner and asked if their dating site falls under IMBRA since my fiancee paid a membership fee. Their representative wrote back and denied that they're IMB and they also advised us to check "NO" for the IMBRA question. Since we thought meeting thru internet that involves a certain fee is an IMB, we didn't listen to their advice and check "YES" and then we added a supplement page explaining that that website only provided us the means of introductory meeting. I think it worked since we got approved with no RFE...

how you know you wont have problems??? you dont have visa in hand nor did you interview!

It's probably worthwhile to point out that the place can insist left, right, up and down that they're not a marriage broker and it won't matter a damn as far as IMBRA goes. It's IMBRA's definition that matters, not what the site wants to think it is.

By all means be honest!! and do gather information from the website such as date of sign up. Some will have a statement if the are exempt or not i am sure. We checked no and had to explain in detail why we checked no. From my understanding if a site is free to sign up for but offers gifts or flowers .....anything they profit from. Whatever website just get them to give you as much proof as possible they are exempt....... been their done that !!!

Hello All!
I cannot say enough about being completely honest when filing your petition. The definition of a service or site that falls under the auspices of IMBRA is pretty clear (at least to me). I mean WTF everyone is meeting people on the web; our cases are not that unique, only in the regard that we have met people from other countries. It is really no big deal to put in writing a truthful description about how you met your mate.

In my case, what I did find to be obtrusive about IMBRA is the element of disclosure and the potential for long delay in petition approval. As I have previously posted, my police record is a mess. Although none of the offenses are those specified in IMBRA, they are, nonetheless, criminal convictions.

I put much effort to be totally honest with my fiancee, myself, and the US Govt. In our petition we basically laid-it-all-out for them in black and white. The theme of the extra documentation we submitted was "Full Disclosure." First of all we both wrote brief descriptions about how we met (on a website). Then I wrote a letter to my fiancee telling her all about my younger days and the trouble I had been in. She responded with a letter acknowledging this and she submitted a supplemental Letter of Intent to Marry. I also gathered 5 letters of reference from friends and colleagues. And wrote in my own words to the Govt about my lawless behavior and how I cleaned-up my act in the last 20 years. Her letters were translated from English to Russian and notarized, the required documentation was translated from Russian to English.

In addition to the supplemental documentation regarding my criminal activity, we also submitted much more than was required (i.e. her daughters custody papers, birth certificate, citizenship papers). There was nothing more that they could have possibly wanted, except for dispositions of my criminal cases. It must have worked because our petition was approved by VSC in 28 days. I truly believe we defused the whole situation by being totally honest and submitting overwhelming documentation.

The point I am trying to make is that they will find out anyway. It is better to put the cards on the table. Yeah, we were worried, but what is the worse that could have happened. I met my fiancee in person. My fiancee is totally free of any criminal record. We are both free to marry. She has sole custody of her child. I will meet the income guidelines. She has a passport for travel to the US. What is there to worry about? Why not be honest? Most of you probably have all of the above WITHOUT the criminal history, so just be honest. If you have nothing to hide you should not be intimidated by IMBRA.

I hope this helps someone. Best of luck!!

for those that has not been through an interview or AOS. let me tell you this.
sometimes the questions can go far deeper than just " how did you meet ". The CO or Ajudications officer can ask some pretty detailed questions that some would reguard as " its not their business " - hince the Strokes interview. so maybe you should be honest and truthful. you should realize that this IMBRA stuff is no big deal compaired to what they really can ask and will ask!

Honesty is the best policy. My mom always says "tell the truth and you won't have as much to remember." That being said, my understanding of the IMBRA is to protect people from abuse and stuff (I could be wrong, and I freely admit I don't know everything). Anyway, what I got out of it is that you have to provide contact information for the internet site on which you met; and you have to disclose stuff like restraining orders filed against you and convictions for domestic abuse. GOOD LUCK!!!!