After the interview, it seems that the applicant's status and what happens next isn't always fully explained nor understood. After your SO leaves and can't fully explain to you what they gave him because he's not sure, what are the tells? If they're sending your info to DC, what does that mean? Is there different color paper? What should we know? I'm particularly interested in what comes out of Casa.

Thank you!

You will know if you are denied. The reason people are confused about AP is that they are given the 221g paper that at first glance looks like a denial, but upon closer reading it only states the visa can not be issued due to X reason.

Sarah posted a copy of this form somewhere. I t might be in the uploaded files/photos or in the Casa thread. I think we mnay have a copy of my husband's 221g and I can try to scan an dupload it if we can;t find Sarah's/

The 221g says something like, "You have been found inelegible for a visa due to section 221g for the following reasons:"

Then standard AP will say something like: "your case requires additional processing, we will contact you when processing is complete."

While the return to USCIS will say something like: "your case is being returned to BCIS due to questions regarding the validity of the relationship."

IOW, it's pretty easy to tell from the 221g whether you are just in regular AP, or if your petition was returned. Maybe some people still have copies of theirs that they can put up as examples.

Great! Thanks you for responding so quickly! Examples will be be very helpful!

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...ic=20535&hl=

Sarah posted this 221g last summer (i think). This is the same form Idir received after his interview in january, so I doubt it has changed as of today.

Thank you, MBP! That's what we needed!

a little clearer, easier to read example, with the additional processing part in english.

Thanks. Suppose you get that, with the check where it is, but no explantion. Should you worry? They kept all the certificates, police, court, etc., but said nothing about calling and gave no further instructions. Is that a bad sign?

I've never heard of them not filling in comments to explain the reason for the 221g. I don't know if it would be a bad sign, but it would definitely worry me!

Correction. There are further instructions:

your pet has been returned to dept of homeland security of citizenship and immig services u s cis for further review pls contact the uscis natl customer serv at 1 800 3755283 for addlt inform about pet.

Is that AP?

...further review implies that your petition is in Admimistrative Review.

From what I've seen here, anything returned to USCIS is a denial, not AP and you need to do what you can right away to keep it from coming back here. Contact chiquita and kiya immediately.

Someone confirm this sine I'm only going off what I've read here.

plz

The cases here from Casa do not mean AP as in, the consulate is finalizing name checks, for example. It's meant soft denial and the petition leaving the consulate only gets it into never never land. Read Kiya's pinned thread.

I agree contact Chiquita and or Kiya asap. This sounds like they are going to deny it and it will come back to the USCIS service center that originally approved it.

Sorry, I didnt see those replies before. So, this doesn't look good, eh? How is AR different from AP?

no, that verbiage is a consular return to USCIS.

I dont really think there is a difference between AR & AP.

AR just means "long" AP, IMO.

A consular return is a whole different ballgame.

Thanks, ladies! We're on it. This one I was sure would breeze thru, but ya never know!

is everything ok?

chi





oh yes this is a return! you must act quickly to prevent it!

chi

Chi, you should be hearing via PM from the person involved. Everything is NOT ok, but hopefully with the help of those who know, it will be in the end. Thanks for showing up. I told her you would!!

Why would they keep all of the certificates if they want to deny?

Wasn't brnidokiegurl's interview today? Is this who we are talking about? This really sucks, I'm sorry that this happened.

I would guess so the entire file is complete for the "re-review" at USCIS. They do return the whole packet to the agency.

sad.

True. A denial is always sad, because the two people involved are in love and forced into further separation, as if the original one wasn't hard enough. I just hope they can get the case turned around and prevent it from actually leaving the consulate.

The condolences are greatly appreciated. Let's hope this can be fixed. Right now, we don't even know what went wrong in the first place!

we're working on it as we write.

let's hope there is GOOD news for this couple going through casa!!!!!

chi

that's not quite true.

they retain the petition at the consulate and most of the paperwork.

the evidence that the applicant supplies is usally returned to him.

they send a (dang, i will have to look up what the notice is called) a notice via diplomatic pouch to the NVC's fraud unit who then will send it on to the service center where it was processed.

chi

Hope the problem can be straightened out quickly.



-MK

According to the regs, the petition cannot be recommended to be revoked unless there is NEW evidence obtained during the interview that constitutes a finding of "substantial evidence of ineligibilty" that was unknown to DHS before the petition was submitted to the consulate. Those red flags are among, but not limited to, the list of "red flags" given in Marc Ellis' article, cited before.

ah, I see. I just assumed the whole thing goes back.

That's exactly right, and part of the reason why it's advisable to address the red flags in the original petition. I don't know if brnidokiegurl did that, but if she did I would think it would help them in getting the return reversed more quickly.

I believe she did, that's why we were so sure things would go well.

I think, though, this is why it's very important the guys are very prepared for these interviews. Until the interview, no one has had to speak for the relationship, and he gets this one chance. So even if nothing has changed in fact since the consulate received the petition, the guy might bomb the interview (unbeknownst to him, of course) by not understanding questions, not answering properly to reflect the contents of the petition, etc. It's been said many times the COs ask tricky questions, circular questions that might be difficult for a non-native speaker to answer properly. Also, the sevice center isn't aware of specifics of each consulate. Something might not bear as much weight at the service center as it does in Casa, as Casa is quite aware of local cultural customs.

I hope this isn't taken as blaming the guys, that's not my intention. I think it's another lesson because time and again everything appears to be sewn up and then something crappy like a denial happens.

You beat me to it, Chi. The things u mentioned take months for each step. About 3-4 months for the petition to actually get back to the us, and that is just the beginning. Abdel and I are at the phase now where the petitin is back at the service center, but its expired. So now they will review the I-130. It's just a long ridiculous process and we only interviewed in Nov. 06, so I guestimate Abdel will be here bout this time next year. I mean, with Houdini bein dead n all......


Abdel asked me if I was sorry that I married him because we have to go through this and that how he knows how hard it must be for me to have to do this and that without him. It amazes me that he isn't even thinking about himself, (or maybe he is but he's just not talking about how it affects him). Anyway, my answer was no, I'm just sorry u didnt pass the interview! Its something we can joke about cuz there ain't notta dam thang we can do about it! He was talking about how he has shaved and was lookin' and smellin' all good and that that the officer just wanted to keep him in Morocco for herself. Just to get turned around, and he said the worst part is that u dont have any privacy. I know its been talked about 1000000 times. I know when I went in there myself, on my first trip, I saw a few people get denied, too. I asked myself, is this where and how the interviews go? NO GOOD! It makes people nervous as hell and thats probably what "kills" a lot of people too. I was nervous just going there for initial paerwork to get the ball rollin'! SHEESH!

Limah

The problem is that they don't always follow their own guidelines. They're not supposed to send it back, but that doesn't mean that they're not going to. I think main reason for adressing them up front would be to give yourself a solid reason to rebut the consulate's decision immediately. I don't know how the post-return process goes, so hopefully chiquita or kiya can address how to proceed when you can prove that USCIS was aware of all of the red flags when they approved the petition.

It's difficult to come up against someone whose livlihood consists of trying to discern fraud. Cos are trained to look for signs and body language. The info that I send out to ppl with inteview dates goes step by step into how to conduct yourself and what not to do. I intend to expand on it as I get more info, but what I have, I've posted in the "Casablanca" thread. It's good for other consulates too.

Hi yep its me and im working on it full strength, he was NOT given any kind of reason, questioning went fine etc. Everything, age, religion, length of vist were all addressed in the original application and it went straight thru no problems. His form has 1 X on the paragraph 221g no other notations and she gave no explanations, because i had told him NOT to leave until he ask what to tell me. But he said she was very rude. So until he can scan me the forms i dont know any more but am to call back one senator in 15 minutes and another is sending me a form out today also have a email into casa from when i first heard asking for more information. Thanks to everyone esp GEG and Maggie and now Chi who is helping go step by step... THe senators rep told me EVERYONE is to get a form explaining why (if) denied is so hes doesnt have a reason to go by or fix. and they did keep all his certificates...also this form had NO french words anywhere

How does a person know if they are denied? It was stated earlier that the person 'will know' but this person was not told. Only after reading and re-reading the text (after finally finding it) did we determine that they were denied! Is it usually more clear than that? Is the only reason a case is denied is for suspected fraud?

I definitely agree with this...however it's important to remember that often the CO seems to have made up his/her mind before the interview even has started, asks very few questions, and refuses to accept information that is offered. Some of our SOs had ridiculously easy interviews, asking only a few questions, looking at a few pictures, and being approved (with of course the standard security checks). So while it's important to be prepared, we can't assume that someone whose application is returned bombed the interview.

the return process can be found in the pinned topic post #334................ 23rd page......

That is something else I was wondering about and I see it has also been addressed a few times, if a case was approved by the U.S., why send it back without any actual factuals of something being fraudulent. I am sure they have insulted a many couples with that one.... "I don't believe your relationship is legitimate." WTF? OK, so this $200 a month on international phone calls is to who and for what, again, since u know? Oh and I guess u sit in on my intimate conversations with my husband and I in the wee hours of the night and decipher that the things we want in our future are not real, and the fact that you have yet again put our lives on hold and nobody is hurt by that or affected by that, or the fact that I will do whatever it takes to see my husband and not to mention the fact that my daughter has developed a relationship with him and fights me for the chair because she wants to talk to him first, and the fact that she was at the wedding, IN MOROCCO............ Fraud you say?

Oh, my bad! I think I got a lil carried away............ But Im getting mad all over again and I'm IN MOROCCO NOW! Having to leave again without him, I don't even want to think about it............... Fraud u say?! OH GOD!

Limah

We keep telling people to address their red flags in the original petition so as to help prevent a consular return, since they can't technically return because of the red flags if the petition was approved with knowledge of the red flags. But what I'm thinking is, if they don't always abide by their own rule, then what's the point of addressing the red flags? Is there some point in the post-return process where the fact that you addressed the red flags in your original petition will help you? Otherwise, by addressing the red flags in the original petition, aren't we just making them aware of things that maybe it's best they don't know if they don't ask?

ETA: sorry i just reread that and it's really confusing, but no time to edit now!

I'm glad you decided to show up here Brnid. I'm sure people will be helpful as they think of things you can do. I hope your senator is able to help you, since they seem to think (based on their words) that something was not done correctly here. Like you said, you can't fix it if you don't know what's broke!

I am so sorry yo report that this just is not true. the CO can and does use prior known evidence that was KNOWN by USCIS (and approved) as reasons for revocation. as it happened to us and others. i addressed this in our NOIR. if this were not a public forum i would post the paper trail i kept and what regs the consulate violated in returning our case.

as it has been suggested many times, it appears that a case is decided by the CO long before the interview actually takes place. if there are any and i mean any red flags the consulate can return the case requesting a revocation based on their 'impression' alone. this of course is against department policy but they get away with it all the time. and who is stopping this from happeneing??? no one! this is such an outrage to say the least!

believe me i appreciate the work our government employees do to protect us. i am the first to get in line and applaud their efforts! what i dont appreciate is abuse of their job! if there is a concrete reason to request a revocation in my case, by all means do so! but to return my case because a CO 'feels' there is no way we have a valid relationship cuz i am older is pure bunk!!!! thats all i can say about that subject cuz it irritates the $hit out of me!!

as an FYI, our case was denied and returned to USCIS 'due to the validity of the relationship' because the CO THOUGHT my husband had no proof of our relationship. DH had it all in his briefcase, (DH was told the CO would ask him for the proof when he wanted to see it) the CO was to stupid to even ask him if he had any proof. nope, he just ASSUMED (a-hole) husband had none when in fact he had about 4 1/2 pounds worth of paper. the co also lied and told my husband he 'needed more info from the NVC'. so husband thought all was ok. nope nope, that was not to be either.


ok done with rant.

sorry

chi

I think everyone gets so focused on the red flags spending a lot of energy trying to address those specific issues. the CO can not deny a petion based on red flags. Red flags are nothing more than common patterns
seen in fraud cases.

If your relationship has one or more of these characteristics- of course it makes it stand out and targeted for scrutiny.

Addressing red flags is simply not sufficient. The petiton to USCIS and the interview must show yourselves as a legitimate couple. Where there are pieces missing you must fill in the blanks. If we knew when we started a bi-national relationship what we know now after having gone through it, these types of denials wouldnt happen. Unfortunately most of us find this site only after we have begun the process.

This is not to say it is anyone's fault for not getting the visa-This is a tricky system to manuever. I do not know how anyone gets through the process without VJ.

yep Jenn, thats it...just

technically

[/color] [color="#FF0000"]they cant, but they do it anyway!

even so a couple still needs to address those red flags. we have no idea if it will or will not help. i would say that the applicant needs to bring up the issue of the red flags and address there right there at the time of the interview. i know this is gonna be a hard thing for him to do, but look, this last couple who were denied addressed thier red flags right up front in their petition and with the interview!

it appears (if they indeed are denied, we are not real sure at the moment) the CO didnt care!!!!

chi

They're also supposed to provide the applicant with a written, specific reason why the petition is being sent back, as well as offer the petitioner and applicant the opportunity to provide further information to refute those reasons.

Do they do that???

HECK NO!!!!


I HATE CASA!!!!!!

she did

she also was prepared with them for the interview

chi

it appears (if they indeed are denied, we are not real sure at the moment) the CO didnt care!!!!

That's why I started this thread! It was so hard to tell what happened, if he was denied or not. The wording is strange and ambiguous, at best, careless at worst. Brnid, Maggie and I mulled over it for a while before deciding we needed reinforcements to decipher what we had.

Thanks so much to all for your input! It's great to have this kind of support!