lol...you are sweet! ( I HATE CASA!!!!!!)

no they violate that regulation too. makes way to overturn the NOIR if only ofr that reason alone!

chi

[/quote]

How does a person know if they are denied? It was stated earlier that the person 'will know' but this person was not told. Only after reading and re-reading the text (after finally finding it) did we determine that they were denied! Is it usually more clear than that? Is the only reason a case is denied is for suspected fraud?
[/quote]



unfortunatley it is not clear. ours was very unclear. it said it was going to be sent to ROME. lol, can you believe that?

the 221g should say if it is going for AP or bring returned and i belive it says it on most forms in the past year or so.

perhaps this CO neglected to give the proper notice. i am hoping and praying this couple is going for AP!!!!

chi

This is so true. I had an atty, but I learned a lot from VJ, plus having the daily support was great too. I would not have known about how to prepare for the red flags had I not been here, nor would I have known about what papers were REALLY required at the interview. Casa seems to change what they want and not notify anyone, until word gets out. For example, at the time of our interview, I had read that someone had to have their celabataire certif, but had I not been on VJ we would not have known because it was not on the list of things to bring. Only the police report. Shortly after that, they started asking for a paper from the court, not just the police report, but again, people only found out at the interview. I could kiss the guys that started this site!

Ahmed had all the forms, he even went back and made them redo theone where they just drew the line and the wanted word "non" his was the correct way, he had everything, his ownershipof store papers translated, everythng along those line, he tried to get her to look when she ask about my work, which he answered and for how long and i had my work letter also included. we had letters from frineds here at my work congrat. him on interview, talk about him coming and party they are to give him, he had letters from his friends and family there that knew us together. everything i coould possible give he had......and some that wasnt even required, i sent the one they had been marking out all notorized and everything, bank statements, bank letter, tax from about 4 years. phone bill she wouldnt look at, pictures she did look at and ask who was who which of course he could do. I dont know what more they could want...

I hope Connie's reading this.

she knows

He got "the blonde". Is there more than one now?

That's exactly it. It's a lot easier to argue that "the consulate overlooked this piece of evidence X when it made the decision to return the position" than it is to argue "the consulate didn't have access to this piece of evidence X that would have changed their decision." In the first you're arguing that with the evidence as presented, they made the wrong decision. In the second, you're arguing that their decision was right based on the evidence available but incomplete with respect to the total body of evidence possible.

Best of luck and prayers for the parties involved for a swift, favorable resolution. And a huge thanks and note of praise: so much of VJ is dedicated to bringing about a successful interview that it's hard to find out what to do when things go wrong unless people publicly brainstorm and get help. It's brave to do that, and any one who comes after owes you a debt of gratitude.

Experiences like this is what me agree with Sharon. It appears that Casa looks at the original USCIS petition and makes a decision based on this evidence. I'm not convienced the age gap is as big as a red flag in Casa as quick decisions in the relationship. We had another couple not to long ago with a very good solid legitimate relationship and their petition was going to be returned. Their engagement came days after her fist trip to Morocco. There was very little strong evidence of the relationship before her first trip.

I have no idea if any of this applies to this case. I am just thinking out loud.

brnidokiegurl- I don't know what more they could have wanted. For sure the kinds of evidence we submit to prove the legitimacy of the relationship can all be faked. So it seems Casa turns their nose up at the evidence during the interview. No one takes the time to read it either. It appears they just look at the stack of it and dates. What a terrible way to judge fraud. So many good people with good intentions get caught in this very bad system.

Thank you for sharing as much as you can about this interview. Every piece of information is valuable not only for us to brainstorm what to do for you, but to provide help for those that come after you. I know wen you are in the middle of something like this it is not easy to come and bare your soul here. It is brave of you.

The saddest part of everything you wrote is that no matter how much evidence you provide, if the person decides you are a fake, there is nothing you can do. You can't make them look at what you take, yet they tell you that you better bring it. I have heard of people taking pages and pages of evidence and pics, to no avail. Yet they get to keep our money and their jobs.

I'm proud of her! It isn't easy to bare all when it hurts, and I know she and her SO are both hurting right now. However, we still aren't real sure what the heck the paper is actually saying. Her poor man, he did try to get it straight because we beat that into him even again last night.

No one can accuse my husband and I of rushing It's been two years and we didn't even file until after year one. It was about 4 years from meeting to marriage. I'm kinda concerned they may think we took TOO long to get to it.

I think Brnid was more prepared than any of us have thought of being! they covered every possible angle and still got denied. We will all be curious to know what the reason was whenever they decide she might want to know

Yes Green, you will probably find the other end of the coin...just why DID they wait so long FRAUD!! Can't win for losing with Casa!

Thanks all, most of u know me (fairly well) all i can say is once all this is done ours will be a name they will remember for a while as they are already getting complaint letters as i write ha tomorrow is another day.....

Can I just offer a word of caution when dealing with congressmen/senators? When going through my K1, I contacted then semi-regularly while on AR. I am sure I made no friends at that time. Now, after going through our AOS interview and getting stuck again, our congressman will not even respond to our letters. Be proactive and assertive while remaining curteous.

I am in no way suggesting people are not remaining curteous, but just wanted to say that it seems my impatience with the K1 process has alienated them and left us without a contact for this leg of the journey.

best of luck to you on getting this turned around

Sure the congressmen and senators office so far just are beginning to look into but one congressman office even volunteer to send to another that he thought would be of help so cant do it all in one day t but according to them EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO REC REASON FOR DENIAL maybe if they would tell us then we can fix...and as we still speak more letters going out ha when they start in the morning they will already know us ha we're not down (to much) we know they dont have anything on us... im thinking positive

Glad to see you are able to stay positive and fight Brnid. I hope your strength as well as the support of others will carry you through this and that it ends quickly!

brnid, i am sooooo sorry to hear what you are going through. I wish I could help in some way, but my experiences with casa is going two year + back with my ex. MaryandAtif might also be able to help. Their case was about to be returned and about 2 weeks later he got his visa! So don't give up hope and know that I and others are praying for you! ((((hugs))))

Absolutely!!!!

brnidokiegurl...I tried sending you another PM but your inbox is full. Please let me know if you need anything at all. Sounds like you are on the right track...insh'allah you can stop this before it is returned.

Check out that guide I sent you, and try calling that number to Casa, you could even give that number to your Senator...Casa will be less inclined to diss your Senator especially by telephone!

I know when I called about our case, I said exactly this: My name is .... the Department of State asked that I contact Mr ...., I got to his extension, and it kept ringing. The secretary picked up and said he was away from his desk but I could call him directly by dialing his extension. That's how I got the direct line. So if your Senator's office calls this line, he will have to speak to them and not blow them off.

Good luck, I am praying for you.

~kiyah~

I cleaned out box, its been little on OVER LOAD today, i got to get out of this chair and go to bed thanks again to all, tomorrow is another day and i have no doubt we will win this....kinda like my saying says i have the right to remain silent, except this time i choose not to

posting this again>>>

try this and or give to your reps to use

FEDERAL CODE OF REGULATIONS 103.2((16)


(16) Inspection of evidence. An applicant or petitioner shall be
permitted to inspect the record of proceeding which constitutes the
basis for the decision, except as provided in the following paragraphs.
(i) Derogatory information unknown to petitioner or applicant. If
the decision will be adverse to the applicant or petitioner and is based
on derogatory information considered by the Service and of which the
applicant or petitioner is unaware, he/she shall be advised of this fact
and offered an opportunity to rebut the information and present
information in his/her own behalf before the decision is rendered,
except as provided in paragraphs ((16)(ii), (iii), and (iv) of this
section. Any explanation, rebuttal, or information presented by or in
behalf of the applicant or petitioner shall be included in the record of
proceeding.

[[Page 92]]

(ii) Determination of statutory eligibility. A determination of
statutory eligibility shall be based only on information contained in
the record of proceeding which is disclosed to the applicant or
petitioner, except as provided in paragraph ((16)(iv) of this section.
(iii) Discretionary determination. Where an application may be
granted or denied in the exercise of discretion, the decision to
exercise discretion favorably or unfavorably may be based in whole or in
part on classified information not contained in the record and not made
available to the applicant, provided the regional commissioner has
determined that such information is relevant and is classified under
Executive Order No. 12356 (47 FR 14874; April 6, 1982) as requiring
protection from unauthorized disclosure in the interest of national
security.
(iv) Classified information. An applicant or petitioner shall not be
provided any information contained in the record or outside the record
which is classified under Executive Order No. 12356 (47 FR 14874; April
6, 1982) as requiring protection from unauthorized disclosure in the
interest of national security, unless the classifying authority has
agreed in writing to such disclosure. Whenever he/she believes he/she
can do so consistently with safeguarding both the information and its
source, the regional commissioner should direct that the applicant or
petitioner be given notice of the general nature of the information and
an opportunity to offer opposing evidence. The regional commissioner's
authorization to use such classified information shall be made a part of
the record. A decision based in whole or in part on such classified
information shall state that the information is material to the
decision.





crude why do those smilys appear???

it is CFR 103.2--b--(16)


chi

As an update, Brnid is being told to stop sending info as her case has already been returned. Even sent me a rude reply in response to the letter I sent on her behalf. I cannot believe that they would return a petition in less than 24 hours.

How did they reply to you, Maggie?

Wow! They're hot on this one. You have to wonder why.

holy crap!!! I can't believe they would return a petition THAT quickly!!!

i'm quite shocked also. wtf is going on?

With a reply email. Now why can't they respond that fast when other people email them asking for their interview dates?? I mean it was less than 24 hours from when I sent the email!!

And yes Green, I too wonder what was the hurry. I thought the petition had a little wait there. They are after something. I really hope all the things that Brnid is doing works. Having no idea what you are up against must be the most frustrating part. Can't even begin to fight...but then again, Brnid is alreayd full into the battle...look at Casa.. you done messed with the wrong girl this time.

Right, I meant in what way was it rude?

Do we know yet what the paper actually stated? Do you think he got a really really really bad name hit or something?

Seems virtually impossible since the pouch comes around once a month, unless of course yesterday or today was **the** day the pouch came around. So, if that's not the case, they clearly have no intention of listening to regular people pleading brnid's case at this point. Hopefully a congressman can jump in.

Essentially she told me I was not allowed to be in Brnid's business.
If her friends cannot follow the advice given to email the consulate, where can they send the information to make sure it's considered? Or is it too late since it already left the consulate?

Doodle: I believe Green posted the wording from the 221g yesterday on this thread, basically stating the petition was being returned and giving an 800# to call for more info. That is how we determined this ain't your ordinary AP.

Nothing new really, i had wrote a letter for ourselves to this mr mckeever and a return reply that more information can not be accepted due to the fact case had already been sent back. THen with Maggies they just stressed can not discuss with persons not in the case (but apparently not the ones IN the case either) so i havent heard back from any of the others that sent out last night. I again sent one to him today and talked to the congressman office. He wont call but said it will take about a week to get answer for him. He also stated it was unlikely it was returned so quickly, unless like u said Mine was the one to fill the bag. just our luck...

So now im just in limbo to see what to do next, the embassy has been addressed to best we can from a personal stand. (if they dont listen they wont listen) His friends in Morocco were afraid to (go against) the embassy and wont email or fax but they will write letters and he can keep for evidence at some time if nothing more to bundle and send to this man.

He is very confused because at question/answers he felt things were good and he answered very good, he tried to show her papers and she said she had seen enough......now he sits in front of computer with sunglasss on and i know hes crying or walks to the window to smoke. Hes takeing this very hard but i told him it will work out.....and he thanks everyone for the help and says everyone is so wonderful...

I haven't heard from Abbas yet. His wife's interview was today. I just hope they're not on a tear over there all of a sudden. I'm hoping no news is good news for them!

Stating it has been sent back does not mean it is not physically in the building. I think it could mean the decision has already been made and it is marked for return. In other words, it is moved from one office to the other. Thus case closed from their point of view.

true. i am sure the petition is still in casa.

it takes 2 CO's in agreemant to return a case to USCIS. i doubt that has happened as of today. the couple still has a chance of getting through.

it doesnt amtter that they wrote back those words to you. the same happened with zena. but they do get the message and that is what is important at this point. lest hope it works for this couple as well.

chi

I wasn't expecting any reply, so I suppose that was why I was shocked to get what I did. I certainly did not ask for a reply. Heck if the petitioner can't find out what is going on with her case I know I sure as heck can't! I'm just happy to have been able to do something for her and hope that in some small way it helps get her case stayed in casa. And a wooden ruler acrossed the back of blondie's hand!

how about a straight pin to take some of the wind out of her sails

Good thing you are a good woman for him to be able to cry on your cyber shoulder. I feel bad for you and him. I do not know about this process but I know you will find a way.

Barbara, are there any cases that have not been reaffirmed and sent back to Casa for a 2nd interview (besides expiring)?

And are there any that are returned to Casa, has a 2nd interview, and still be denied?

I know one person that was told theirs was being sent back. She immediately contacted her Senator. Less than two weeks later her husband (K3) got his visa, so there is still a change. I mean I don't want to offer false hope, but it happened like this before. Mary where are you??????

And also this happened to Zenaelarabi, if I remember correctly. She also got it turned around.

Dear Madam:
Mr. Gxxxxxx's case will be returned to the Department of Homeland Security's Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for further review. Due to the personal nature of the information, the file will be sent via registered diplomatic pouch (Reg #xoxoxox). In order to seek information on the status of the case, you should contact the USCIS National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283.

Regards,

IV Unit

i had sent them a letter (email) about 1 yesterday and at 1400 (or 2) i got this answer, seems they felt the need to HURRY with mine, i guess they needed to fill that pouch so they said why not deny this one. Now if it INTENDS to go in tht pouch and hasnt left yet who knows or has it already left?

From what mybackpages (I think) stated it could be either...either it's sitting waiting for the pouch or it's on its way. Either way I wanna know what's in that IV in that unit!

me to i could use some about now

Yes Peezy. My cousin is one of them. She married a moroccan 3 years ago, and was denied after a 2nd interview. They had senator and attorney involvement. They are now persuing an immigrant visa for him. I almost did not even begin this process because of what I have watched her go through. But each case has it's own merits so you can't compare one against another.

brnidokiegurl

i informed some of the senior members from my yahoo group about this topic, i think they will be contacting you to try to offer some more help.

i am sorry i can't do more to help, i hope it works out and soon!

((( hugs )))

Unfortunately many people that are denied are fully prepared for the interview. It seems the decision was made prior to the interview. My husband took all of the same evidence to the interview that I sent to the USCIS, and the case was reaffirmed. What does that tell you?



I was concerned about this as well with both the senator and congressman that was working with us. I would ask them at the end of our conversation "When would be a good time for me to call back for a status update". They usually said 2 weeks, and I followed their recommendation the majority of the time.



Don't believe them, they are lying. They told us the same thing but I found that the petition sat at the consulate from Aug of 05 to October, when they finally sent it by diplomatic pouch.

The wording is definitely a returned petition. I would work on it now. Get letters of support from both families as well as friends that know you as a couple. No e-mails, letters to the consulate. Have the ones in Arabic translated. Give them contact information in case the consulate feels the need to get further information. Get your senator and/or congressman involved ASAP and give them these letters, keeping copies for yourself. I have seen 2 times know where a representative was successful in getting the consulate to accept further evidence for review, and the visa was granted, so it is worth the effort.

I'm sorry to hear what you are going through, but rest assured you can beat this.....many of us have.

yes, unfortunately this has happened...ie a married couple has has their case returned from casa 2 times. they have now been married 4 years and have just had their case reaffirmed for the 3rd time. we both had our 2nd interviews scheduled around the same time. we got a visa and they did not. it broke my heart to say the least. i am not sure where it is at the moment, maybe waiting for casa to just give up and issue that visa!!! i have know her since we were denied in april 05 and they were denied abround the same time. i met her through VJ and we have learned much along this way. back then there was no info available for any of us who were denied and what the process was. even my reps had no clue as what i should do since they had not heard of this happening.

it is my hope that everyone can gleen from all the others who have suffered through the denials coming out of casa. this is the only reason i am here. my husband is here tucked in beside me. we made it but this is not going to be true for other couples. i see as we find other ways of proving a valid relationship to the consulate, the consulate still denies couples. apparently we need more ideas to get through to them that these couples are not frauds. yet i do think these issues need to go higher above the consulate. it will take a lot of ppl to get this looked at. but how many are willing to hang on for this cause? there are a few yahoo groups who are banding togther to try and get through our government and get these issues looked at.

for those interested >>>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unitefamilies/

chi

princess I thought you knoew this stuff girlie.. ok 221g is admin processing
221g is a temp denial. that because the embassy has to issue the visa if they cant because they need to do security checks they place you on AP 221g. now a denial NOID is 212. we dont want to talk about that right. hey hang in there . hopefully its all over for you in a few weeks!