My husbands K3 interview is on 2nd May. He has just received his police certificate.

It lists the following:

1 conviction for theft
4 cautions for theft
1 caution for fraud (evading a fare on the tube or train)
1 caution for drunk and disorderly.

All of these are more than 5 years old.

If we get the court transcripts for the conviction, is there a chance he will not need a waiver? Or will he difinitly need a waiver?

Any info would be helpful!!!

I am also posting this in the waiver forum.

Thank you!!!!

No doubt what so ever, he needs a waiver. even then he'll be lucky to to get the waiver approved.

Are you joking? This can't be!!! Please let me hear from someone else!

Well belive it or not, i see 6 cmt's there, multiple convictions are a serious matter, so 6 crimes of moral turpitude + a drunk and disorderly, isnt a simple case.

My advice seek a good immigration lawyer, who has experiance of waivers.

Just from the thousands of posts I've read (now i need lasik).....this is a brain dead simple case of YES YOU NEED A WAIVER....in my opinion.

I don't know how cautions are regarded. I certainly hope that it's only the one conviction that will be considered. In any case you do need the court record for the conviction. The USA does not recognize the UK's Rehabilitation of Offenders Act so the fact that these are more than 5 years old is irrelevant.

mary

It would be good if someone could let me know if they also look at cautions in the uk as convictions. I am under the impression we will need a waiver, and due to lack of funds, I will be going about this myself. Any sort of help with the process would be appreciated.

Thank you for your information so far.

Unfortunatly, according to this, an admission of commiting a crime, is the same as a conviction.By accepting a caution the person is admiting to the crime.

a. Any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits the essential elements of a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime) is inadmissible.
INA § 212(a)(2)(A)(i).

Would this mean I have to file a 601 or 212 waiver?

YOU'LL NEED A I-601 WAIVER (THE I-212 IS FOR REMOVAL/DEPORTATION), WHICH YOU CAN ONLY FILE AFTER THE IMMIGRATION OFFICER FINDS HIM "INADMISSABLE" AT THE INTERVIEW.
LOOK AT THE TOP OF THIS SECTION FOR I-601 HELP. GOOD LUCK.

He will be told at the interview he is inadmissable and they will inform him that he can file a I-601 Waiver

The cautions in of them selves are not grounds for inadmissability, however they are going to be held againest him as evidence of moral turpitude when the I-601 is decided on.

You can prepare the I-601 in advance and they will accept it at the interview.

You will have to prove extreme hardship and prove that he is a reformed person (very hard to do)

Definitly get a lawyer, you have little or no chance of approval without one.

Hi, you say that the cautions themselves are not grounds for inadmissability, can i ask how you know this ?, it was my belief that in the eyes of USCIS thay are as good as a conviction, in respect of the fact that by accepting a caution, the person admits to the crime.

Im doing Aos from vwp, and i have been worried that because i have a shoplifting conviction from when i was 13 years of age, and a caution for criminal damage from some 4 years ago (i am now 31), that due to the caution i now fall foul of the multiple conviction rules governing inadmissability.

If you think you could offer a view on my circumstances, i.e. do you think i will require a waiver. it would be appreciated..

Many thanks..

Your timeline says K1?

How did you deal with the I-94W?


I though anything under 18 did not count.

I also understood a caution involved and admission of guilt.

I did'nt know what moral turpitude meant, and under the rehabilition of offenders act in the UK i was not under obligation to disclose my offence under the age of 17. I now know that the US dose'nt recognise spent convictions, but seeing that when i filled in the forms i did'nt know this, i did not deny a material fact.

Are you sugesting that i may not require a waiver in respect of my criminal record ?

Don't tell me, you now think i may need a waiver for misreprestation on the i-94w. ??

Helzie, are you sure he has four cautions for theft? As I understand it, once you receive a caution for theft, if you are arrested for theft again within a certain amount of time, another caution is not an option. The police must send you on to trial if they want to pursue the matter. Or were his cautions spread out over many years? In any case, please, please have a consultation with a qualified immigration lawyer.

I've also heard that US immigration treats a caution for a CiMT the same as a conviction, but I don't know if this is strictly true. I've asked a lawyer about it to see what her opinion is, but haven't heard back yet. On the one hand, it seems reasonable in theory because there must be an admission of guilt before a caution can be issued. In reality, many people accept cautions simply to avoid the hassle of going to court, regardless of whether or not they are guilty. When the police tell you, "Admit you did it and we'll let you go with a warning", it's very tempting to agree even if you are innocent. If people realized that other governments might treat their caution as a conviction and therefore bar them from entering their countries, I think a lot less people would agree to the caution.

Youngie, my husband also has one caution and one conviction on his record, but both are from when he was an adult. There is some debate as to whether or not his conviction is a CiMT, but our lawyer doesn't think so. We've been told Gary will probably be granted his visa and not required to file a waiver. I would think that given your conviction occurred under the age of eighteen and that you were cautioned and not actually convicted for your second offense, you should not have problems with AOS. This is only my opinion, though. If you are really worried, have a consult with a lawyer to clarify things. It won't cost very much but will give you the answers you need and peace of mind.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiance, i totally agree about people accepting a caution just as a way to get out of the police staion as quick as possible, but with hindsight it can lead to no end of trouble.
I will probably see a lawyer, as i find worrying about the situation is taking up quite alot of my time, the cost of the lawyer will be nothing if it gives me piece of mind.

Thanks again..

You might have



Possible



I do know that ignorance of the law is no defence.

I would go with the lawyer suggestion.

It does'nt rain it pours, i will definitely be seeing a lawyer now, thanks for the input though.

You need to know when to stop on boards like this, sometimes I go to far, but this seems a classic case where you would not want to be at the AoS interview without having checked out everything with somebody who does this for a living.

Ineligible

There is the law on what constitutes criminal activity and the if you are ineligible or not.

Under the strict definition of the law, a "caution" in the UK is admission of guilt and can be cause for inadmissable ruling. However I do know that normally cautions are not taken that way. In your case there was a conviction and more than one caution. Remember it is at the discretion of the interviewing officer to grant or deny a visa. If I were you I would plan on being denied, and if you arent then so much the better.

Crimes committed prior to being 18 can be counted and held against you. Read the info on the above link for exact circumstances where they can be held against you.

There are no hard absolute rules on some of these things, sometimes they over look cautions sometimes they dont. I have talked to people that have had a denial and others that havent.

So let me rephrase my earlier statement.

Cautions can be cause for denial of a visa. Especially with multiple instances on his record. Alot of it hinges on the interviewing officer but in this case I would count on needing a waiver.

Under the site i gave you, you can also find the definition of moral turpitude.

All the the items happend in the course of 4 years while my husband was between the ages of 20 and 23. He entered the UK in 1998 and was not legally able to work, so he stole cd's from HMV and tower records to sell them to second hand cd stores for money. He also was homeless and fell with the wrong crowd. He was never in trouble in his own country (he is not English) or after our marriage.

Since our marriage he has sorted himself out. He has not had one run in with the law for the last 6 years. He has been employed as a courier for a notary company in London and handles large amounts of cash and important papers on a daily basis. All of his employers in the last 5 years have been aware of the situation and have found him trustworthy.

I have a child from a previous relationship and I cannot take him out of the country without a lengthly court battle with his father and their family. There are actually already a court order given for visitation with his paternal grandmother on his father side that clearly states I cannot take him out of the country.

My husband and my son do have a relationship. It is not as strong a relationship as I would like, but that is soley based on the location of my husband. My husband and I lived in London for the past 6 years and my son visited often and my son recognizes my husband as his stepfather along with my husbands mother, brother, etc.

As we are not rich, I cannot afford a lawyer. I hope that I have enough strong arguments to have a waiver approved, if it comes to this on 2nd May.

We are currently gathering together the following:

1. Hardship letter - me
2. Hardship letter - my husband
3. 1 Character reference from a person that has known my husband for 4 years
4. 2 Character references from people who have known my husband before and after the offenses for the past 9 years
5. Court documents that pertain to my son confirming I cannot take him out of the country
6. A letter from my son's psychologist confirming that sepreating him from his family would be detrimental to his mental as well as physical well being
7. A letter from my husbands current employer stating that they know of his offenses and confirm he is a trustworthy person
8. 2 letters from my mother and son's grandmother on his father's side stating that they would not allow nor do they think it would be beneficial for my son to leave the USA

That is all I have. I hope it will work. I really can do nothing else as the finances are just not there. I have decided to be present at the interview now, so that is another $650 that we didn't plan on spending.

Anyone who can give me any pointers in any way, other than reccommending a lawyer as it is not an option, I would appreciate it. I especially need samples of the character references.

I am worried sick and am just plain sad.

thank you.

To Helzie

What's his status in the UK.

Okay no one, not even a lawyer is going to be able to tell you if you will be able to prove extreme hardship or not. Now I can tell you from personal experience that having minor child that has court order or notarized letter from other parent stating they will not allow them to travel overseas if you move there is looked at as an extreme hardship.

In my hardship letter i had the following

Letter from ex wife stating she would not allow daughter to travel overseas
Affect on my family including other childern if i had to move overseas
My job, i have excellent career that is specific to this country and would not be able to find comparable employment overseas
community involvement

Even in our denial letter they stated i had proven extreme hardship, based on my custody agreement for my minor child.

However, our denial was based solely on the fact that we did not prove that my fiancee's overstay was overcome by my hardship. She had no criminal record and yet they used court cases confirming that it was sole discrestion of attorney general to approve hardship.

What does all this mean?

It is a crap shoot, sorry to tell you this but that is what it is. You might get approved with no problem, you might not. There is no measuring stick you can go by. I will tell you this from experience, without a lawyer you reduce your chance of success and if you are denied and have to appeal you are looking at 6 to 18 month wait for an answer and very, very few are over turned unless there is a mistake of law or mistake of fact in the denial letter.

I firmly believe that if we had retained a lawyer to do the I-601 package we would not be in this situation. This is not a cut and dry set of laws and is completely up to the whim of the person reviewing your case, who oh by the way is not the person that you will see at the interview, and is not someone who you will ever speak to or meet. They look at your package and decide your future from what you have written. They will and can use everything you say in the letter againest you. Will a lawyer guarantee an approval, absolutely not, however they do speak the language, they do know how to say things in such a way as to help you get an approval. Many lawyers will work out payments and since you are only doing the I-601 it isnt that expensive, might be best money you have ever spent.

I know how hard all this is. We have gone thru it all and are still fighting the good fight. Be prepared for long wait and dont be shocked if you do get a denial.

He applied for the workers registration scheme in 2004 after the suscession of his country into the EU and last year he received his full residency in the UK.

Completly legal, but not a citizen.

Might have been a plus if he was not legal.

Can you not do DCF?

Just a thought.

Something wrong with the edit today, I assume he is a Citizen of one of Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia.

It may well have been possible to show more hardships for these countries.

I don't really know what that is. I think it is applying while I was in the UK in the UK? Anyway, it was best that I come back here and get a job and all that stuff so I could prove the support aspect and situate myself here and get ready for him to come over.

If that doesn' make sense, please let me know.

I guess I could prove harship as he is from Lithuania, but he has been quite successful in the UK and I doubt I could prove he would have to go back to Lithuania if he wasn't able to go to the US. If none of this works out, he will probably just stay in London.

Helzie, if you absolutely cannot afford to hire a lawyer, even with a payment plan, I hope you'll look into free and low cost immigration services in your area. I don't know where you are in Minnesota, but here's one site I found listing several services available in your state. http://www.energyofanation.org/Low-Cost_Immigration_Services

I assume you already know about http://www.immigrate2us.net/forum/portal.php where you can find examples of both approved and denied hardship letters.

I have gone ahead and paid the fee for the email consultation with Laurel Scott. I like what you had to say about her in a previous post!

You are a diamond. Thank you for finding the information. If worse comes to worse, I guess I will have to get a lawyer. I am aware of that website, but it is so non user friendly! I can't post anything and it takes ages to load. Do you have the same problem? Anyway, I went through all the letters and I have started the hardship letter today.

Thank you so much!!!

Now you are back DCF is a non issue. I had not appreciated that.

I would also save your money on going over for the interview.

You being there is not going to affect the waiver requirement or make any difference on whether the waiver is approved. You need the lawyer more than you need to be at interview. London interviews are very quick and easy. By the sounds of it, you have no issues except the criminal activity.

Just curious though, if he is citizen of another country and just there on worker permit how did you manage to get your interview thru London? I understood that he would have to go thru his country of citizenship. Also did you get police check from his home country or any other country (except US) that he has lived in since he was 16? If not you be sent away at the interview until you have that also.

London will interview you as long as you are UK Resident.

Most people attending Visa Interviews are not British.

He has only lived two places: UK and Lithuania, and we have records for both.
thank you for the advice!!

Roger that, I just found the rule too, thanks. Was just something i thought of when she mentioned he wasnt a citizen. i know of a case that got to the interview stage and they were turned away because the individual was not a citizen of the UK, but must have had some other issues too. Thats the problem with the boards sometimes you dont get the whole story. I did find the ruling on that one and you are correct.

I am posting to update our situation. I flew over from Minnesota yesterday to be with my husband for the interview today. It took a little over 2 hours. Even with his 4 cautions for theft, 1 conviction for theft, 1 caution for fraud, and 1 caution for drunk and disorderly, he was APPROVED! I would like to note that the person that we handed all the paperwork to spent a long time looking over the UK police report and said "oh, they are just cautions"

I did have a short brief that Laurel Scott did for us, but they didn't even look at it.

All in all, a very pleasant morning!

Congratulations Jess and Tom!

I didn't think I could get any happier after Gary's approval, but you two have proven me wrong.

cUT SOME OF YOUR SPENDING AND GET A LAWYER!

And why is that?

Congratulations, that seems amazing to me. The theft was the reason I assumed it would need a waiver. I am so glad it was so petty they didnt require it for you. I would want to know, did Laurel Scott think you would need it?
Bobbie

She didn't think we would need a waiver, so that is why she reccommended the brief. When I originally posted our situation on VJ EVERYONE told me we would definitly need one, and I was really scared and worried. Now I would tell everyone NOT to listen to the people on VJ in this type of situation, and use Laurel Scott. Someone even said that they count cautions as convictions. That couldn't be the case as in our situation, the immigration person just let a repeat offender come into the country!

I have had some people joke about how they hope we are not moving close to them due to the convictions, but I thought it was quite important to tell the truth and be completly honest on VJ so someone in the future can get the most help when reading and searching through the forum. I found it hard because I couldn't find anything really about convictions, or more specifically cautions (which are more common than convictions!) so had to go to immigrate2us site. I understand people don't want to tell their business, but I hope that because I did, someone will be helped in the future. The 4 weeks leading up to the interview were hell and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!

Thanks for the congrats!