Hi,
I'm trying to gather information for whomever might be Joint-sponsor for my wife(CR-1)

I am wondering if within the first 2 years while she is LPR, if she leaves me, will she be breaking the visa contract as my spouse and then can I file to have her deported(heaven forbid) If so, this would terminate the spnsors contract.

Again this is just a question to help me when I lay down the facts of joint-sponsorship to someone. Believe me.... we love each other a lot. Hard to ask this kind of thing:-)
Thanks,
Mike

You can not.



so it would not

You can't deport anybody, it's the government's job.

If your wife leaves you and chooses to depart the US permanently, you and the joint sponsor won't be financially responsible for her any more.

I sincerely hope you asked this question out of curiousity and there is no hidden meaning...

No hidden meaning.
My wife was refused her visa at interview even though I had 130,000.oo in property assets. I had a bad few years with income and when the CO saw my earnings, he told my wife she needed a co-sponsor.

Everyone I talk to about being a co-sponsor is afraid of what could happen.
So I'm searching every possible fact I can find to put them at ease.

I read that in one case a wife devoriced her american husband, and ended up sueing him for 19,000.00 for living expenses.

But no.... I love my wife. We both cry everyday we are apart because of this issue.
Mike

The obligations are clearly stated on the form.

Ceases on

Naturalisation
Death
Leaving the country
40 Quarters of Social Security contributions.

Usual co sponsors are family.

How well would you know the cosponsor? I take it that your income issue is soon to be resolvedc, or resolving itself, and if I were in your shoes, I'd be making sure I did what I could to convince a cosponsor that the primary sponsor for your wife, is you, and they a secondary source of support. In so far as you had the capability/ability or means to satisfy any obligation either to the government or to an ex-spouse should the unthinkable occur, the cosponsor could breath a sigh of relief.



What you refer to is akin to the Stump v Stump case already mentioned here, where in lieu of spousal support, the local court sought relief for the alien by virtue of a contract that was in place between a sponsor and the government to provide 125% of poverty guideline figures. You shoudl check with your local court to see what their position is on spousal support, to begin with. Many rarely award especially when a marriage has been short term. A post-nuptial drafted between you and your wife to cover the situation might also carry some weight with a trepidatious cosponsor.

Mike,
You might be better off taking your research into:
1-What is covered by the I-864?
2-In what unique situations can it be applied?
3-What is the order of collection should the I-864 be enforced?

Baring a major medical catastrophe, it is difficult to see the Joint Sponsor's liablity as being equal to the Sponsor's.

You might find illumination by browsing through the Effects of Major Family Changes forum.

I doubt that you could contract out of the I-864. Otherwise it would be a standard Lawyer recommended requirement.

The case concerned was outside of any divorce settlement, seems probable that in that case any marital claim would be minimal so that is why they went after the Federal contractual agreement.

You can't contract out of the I-864, but you could contract out of seeking any temporary spousal support, unless it clearly violated what one would be entitled to as a matter of law.

I'm curious. How could the case have been outside of a divorce setttlement? Was it not between spouses, or former spouses?

Thanks alot diaddie mermaid....

Actually in that case the ex-wife decided to take the matter to federal court so the issue would be about the I-864 burden as opposed to marital/devorice burden which I think is a state issue.

You can read about it here.... excellent reading!
LINK

meauxna... Thanks to you as well.
I would love to learn about sponsor/co-sponsor as far as who the gov. goes after first. I have searched all over for that kind of info as well as what is going on with the 864 "between the lines"...

I have been studying the 213a law and the laws that the 213a refers to but there is not much out there to research.

For example the 864 doen't talk about what happens if my wife was in an auto accident and was sued for whatever the car insurance didnt cover. Would that debt go to me the husband? Or me the primary sponsor? Or the joint sponsor?

If the husband.... then does that relieve obligation to the sponsors?

Or what happens if my wife needed surgery and the bill was say 20,000. Who do they go after? Husband or sponsors. Its not a government issue and therefore nothing about it in the 864(213a)

Any links to articles would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for the help.
Mike

Federal court was the venue due to the fact that the contract which was being used was one between the sponsor and an agency of the US government, but the construct of the suit was to seek maintenance by virtue of the extant contract in lieu of alimony.

The I-864 is a document to prevent aliens from becoming wards of the government. A lawsuit initiated to seek repayment of healthcare or medical costs has little to do with the promise to support one's alien spouse to the tune of 125% of the current povertty guidelines. I don't see where that comes into play.

Yes, I agree but it would be nice to find out for sure so I can tell a possible joint-sponsor their exact burden.

I have decided buy health insurance for my wife. That will elimminate the health issue but I still would like to find out about who is responsible if an accident where she might be sued.

Thanks a lot for your input. You sound like you really know your stuff. I'm listening! :-)
Mike

Mike,

If they give her the surgery, knowing that she has no money to pay the bill, they go after anyone who has money and who they think has an obligation to pay her bills.

As diadromous mermaid points out, 213a deals with the immigrant's income - not with paying the immigrant's bills.

Yodrak

maybe you should write your "own little contract" between you and your co-sponosr reassuring him, that in case of a divorce (or anything else involving money), that he doesnt have to pay anything or that he doesnt have any kind of responsibility.
I dont know if thats a stupid suggestion or not, but maybe it helps the co-sponsor to ease his mind, if you assure him that you will take care of any costs that your wife will cause due to a divorce, car accident etc....

I di not read that it was in lieu of alimony, I do not remember alimony being mentioned.

As far as I know the same case could have been taken by anybody being sponsored, that it was an ex spouse was not in itself relevant.



Agreed, the Affidavit is limited in who can enforce it, a third party such as the victim of a motor accident is not obviously a potential source.

Unless somebody makes a new legal precedent.

The Molinas,

I-864 is a contract between the person and the government, whether the person is the Sponsor or the Joint Sponsor.

No agreement between the Sponsor and the Joint Sponsor is going to override the contract between the Joint Sponsor and the government.

Yodrak

hi mike,
Suggest you start with the form and its instructions.. it is spelled out fairly completely there. The I-864 allows government agencies that have awarded means-tested benefits to your immigrant to sue for repayment.

First: A need for means-tested benefits. What are you doing to avoid that?
Next: An actual grant of means-tested benefits. Most (90+%?) agencies won't even talk to an immigrant until they have 5 years as a PR.
Next: An actual suit for recovery. I don't recall any of us being able to turn up a case where one of these agencies HAS actually sued an immigrant, their Sponsor or the Joint Sponsor for repayment.

I don't see anything about disgruntled neighbors, car accidents or civil debt. As you note, those are not government issues (on their face).

If you then dig further to the 'support at 125%' portion of it, I still can't find an application for your concerns. If you can't find anything in the Public Charge portions of the law, might it be that they aren't in there for a reason?

Don't go to the bank on this, but my understanding of the line of repayment is: Immigrant, Sponsor, Joint Sponsor. again, this is after the if/when means-tested benefits have een granted and a lawsuit started to reclaim them. There is a list of means-tested benefits on the DOS I-864 page (links in the DCF Guide).

Thanks to you all!!

This is a great discussion as it just isn't talked about in detail in this site or any other site I have visited. And every person I have talked to about sponsoring my wife has raised some issue of risk.

I'm really surprised noone else has run into this problem and asked questions.

Example....
My mom is VERY rich, retired, alone, and never spends any of her money.
But, she is a worry-aholic. It's up to me to releieve her of the worry by learning the facts so she will even listen to me. Once she and I have learned that she basically has no burden, then she will relax and I can pay a lawyer to sit with her and tell her what I already told her but as absolute fact.

I have read and reread the I-864 instructions and rules etc.
I have read and reread the 213a and the laws it makes reference to.
I've done many searches on any topic related. But the hard part is figuring out the topic for the search.... and which government agencey to look up.
I am doing my homework. It's all I can think about. This is the only thing keeping me away from my wife.

I've put possible joint-sponsor burdon into 3 categories....

1. Being sued from auto accident. Solution.... My wife will just have to wait to get her license until after she becomes a US citizen.(3yrs)
<Problem solved>

2. Health issues like not having funds for surgery. Solution... I buy her health insurance.
<Problem solved.>

3. Becoming a public charge. Only applies if she devoriced me and I didnt continue to support her(which I would)

a. If she were even able to receive gov. assistance, then I as the primary Sponsor, whould pay that back. No burden to the Joint-sponsor.(If they trust me)
b.If she requested living expenses directly form the sponsors, then again, I would do what it takes to pay these expenses so it would not become a burden to the joint-sponsor.

So I'm getting close.
Still wondering about if, say... she was riding a bicycle and hit an old lady on the sidewalk and then the lady sued. If that would be the husband's burden or if they can go to the sponsor for that.
I guess I could by some kind of accident insurance.

Its almost time for me to sit with an immigration attourney noe that I have specific questions to ask. And some solutions.

Again thanks so much to all of you for your help and insight.
Mike

Mike,

Items 1 and 2 are not sponsorship issues. Again, sponsorhip is assuring that the immigrant has a minimum level of income. It has nothing whatsoever to do with outgo - the immigrant's expenditures, debts, or liabilities.

Yodrak

I like the way you've approached this, Mike. You are aplauded!

You have done a lot of work on your own, digging where few dare go.
I don't know what to tell you about the knocking someone down with a car or bike---I think that would just fall under personal liability (aka go after the husband, not the sponsor). Your solution is extreme--make sure you both can live with it!
As I mentioned before, when I wanted mom & dad's financials for just in case, I had the idea about naturalizing. It was already in our plan and would clearly get them off the hook. I also knew that in reality, should we ever come to the point of needing means tested bennies, I would be asking my parents for help before I went to welfare anyway.

See if the links in the DCF Guide are helpful---plenty *has* been written on the topic, it's just hard to find, as you note. This comes up more often in the DCF Forum because returning USCs often don't have a current US income.

Any chance I could talk you into reducing the size tag in your signature text? ???

Thanks for the support Yodrak....Appreciate what you do to help on this site.


meauxna...
Thanks and sure I can change the text size. It looks ok for me and when I reduced it from 6 to 3 it did nothing for my view. I took both the size and bold tags out and the bold went away but size is still the same... for me.

So let me know if its fixed and if not I will just remove the text..... no problems.

Oh what DCF forum are you refering to? Here at VJ?
Mike