A good news forum is ok with me however I would like to get everyones feelings on this. I am concerned with placement on what topics it covers. Should we place it in the General Discussion Category or some other category?

You're not wrong - was essentially my point

Yes, Cap'n. I thought we were doing what Andy said:
How about renaming the existing K-1 forum from 'K-1 Fiance(e) Visa General Discussion' to K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Questions and Help' and then adding a new one underneath called 'K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Case Filing and Progress Reports'




Nothing was resolved, no.


Agreed, we need more moderation. Perhaps enabling a select 2 or 3 new mods to help you out.



Yes, we agreed more people need to be thread movers.

I should re-emphasize that adding the ability to move threads to member accounts is not moderating nor a moderator role. It is simply a social networking tool that will improve organization.

Hmm. My only concern is that next people would want this for every other forum, K3, DCF, AOS, etc. Maybe a subforum on each? It would not be on the main page but like the regional forums?

I started the topic to see if there was a possibility to create a 'subforum' off the K1 forum. The purpose of that subforum would be to move these timeline related threads to it. I think in the ensuing conversation, we realized that the 'congratulations' and 'I got touched!' type threads may make sense to be in there as well. Mainly because all those various types of threads seem to be 'overtaking' the K1 forum, making it more difficult to weed through and 'find' true K1 related question threads.

As devilette stated, I think Andy's suggestion of renaming the K1 and the name for the subforum is appropriate.

Edited when I saw Captain's last post: I'm not sure on that one. It seems to me like the K1 forum is the one bedraggled by this the most - my thought is to at least start there (maybe even to see how it goes over?). But perhaps I don't frequent those other forums enough to know for sure if it makes sense with those.

I definitely see some touch/NOA1/2 threads in AOS, but can't say for K3. Makes sense though.

The reason why the topic has spread amongst several divergent issues is because it reflects a number of areas of disquiet with the usage or focus of the site, and it's operability. Some of these are the same issues as were discussed in this area a year or so ago, and which resulted in some members having the power to move threads around, but not in exercising better control of the site in any other respect.

Some issues are undoubtedly related to the explosion of threads in the K-1 area in particular, caused by the disparity of processing times between service centers, meaning there are abundant and regular posts from some announcing approvals or other positive action, while the majority (3/4 of the K-1 membership) have to sit and wait an interminable time by comparison with no action. The frustration of the one group and the insensitivity of the other is palpable, and the solution was thought, I believe, to be a separate area (my suggestion was to place it next to the existing K-1 area on the main forum page and do a bit of renaming for better 'guidance', but others have thought it would be better inside the K-1 area as a sub-group. Not only would creating a place of this sort help the 3/4 membership who are having to wait out the process longer than the 1/4 who don't, but it would also help clean the K-1 area up so that those asking questions or trying to help don't have to wade through an abundance of 'litter'. It would help target the K-1 area better.

I think we all have to admit that the tendency of new users posting instead of reading is a factor we can't really control. In the long term I'd like to see clear and concise guides by issue as downloadable links, perhaps pinned or otherwise made very obvious, but in order to reach the point where that work can be done - getting the guides and other materials up to date and as accurate as possible, there are active moderation issues to be addressed in trying to bring some control and create a more positive atmosphere for posters to work in and help gradually reduce the clutter.

Better moderation is needed everywhere on the site - excepting off topic perhaps which is there for entirely different purposes than the rest of the site. I think we all agree that things are less than ideal and VJ isn't able to effectively function as well as it has in the past for a whole host of reasons, not least being the gradual loss of focus on the question/answer/help/support role of each topic area.

Ultimately, those regulars who are capable of strengthening the informational resources and answering questions competently need to be encouraged and have some investment here other than the frustration of time spent struggling against the tide. Those people are the backbone of the site, and I sense that in many ways they're being discouraged. A couple of the contributions in this very thread, where a somewhat rambling but worthwhile, and for many crucial, discussion of some fundamental VJ issues has been met with derision is a good example.

But of course you're asking for a consensus and like everyone else here I'm just a participant. You know from our prior discussions what I feel is needed, and I don't see my viewpoint as changed in any way.

ON EDIT: regarding the possibility that other areas would want the same additional 'progress' type topic area off the main page if K-1 got it - why not? What's the problem with that if it helps organize the site - and since everyone is interested in progress and success stories, it should do just that. It might then mean the service center topic area could go completely too, plus assistant with a little re-purposing.

I am more than happy to create this sub forum. We can always try it out and worse case it doesn't work and we revert it back and try something different.

It is created and I am moving threads posted in the last week or so that are applicable.

Can anyone comment on how easy the new section is to find? Should we make it a regular forum and not a sub forum? etc... let me know .

I think it's kind of hard to see - perhaps a bigger/black font? Also, I see a NOA2 msg in the normal K1 forum, doens't that get moved to the new one as well?

Wow, this is 15 pages long. I haven't seen what comes after page 3 yet but to answer your question, no I wasn't really. I thought it would take a long time so I mentally prepared to wait 5 months for approval. After that it might have gotten difficult. But there were no "monthly filer" threads or whatever when I was going through that part of the journey. K1 forum was mostly filled with people confused about IMBRA.

I can see it fine...but then I know my way around VJ. Don't know how easy it would be for a gnubee to find it though. I know that when I first joined VJ I found the whole site rather overwhelming. That may be why gnubees tend to just post in the K-1 forum at first. *shrugs* It is at the top, most are applying for K-1 and it is easy for them to find. Just my $0.02c

I agree with Dev about needing a similar sub-forum in AOS.

While it's not as tough to find relevant material, there's enough "I got NOA1" and "I got my interview" threads to make a new sub-forum timely.

Can the OP's of such threads just get a PM to tell them the thread was moved? The clutter is still there.

AND.....with all due respect....

Unless you give a select group of members power to moderate behavior, I think you are going to continue to see the exodus of senior members.

Okay, maybe this is stupid question but why is there such a lack of an inclination to have moderators on this site? I understand all about the previous problems and why they were removed but wasn't that in the past?

Surely those issues are no longer current?

Agreed on the darker/bigger font. Other than that, its fabulouso!

Oh and how many 'movers' do we have?

Incidentally, in my opinion, if mods were ever chosen (I mean mods, not movers) they have to be universally respected, liked and pleasant. From my own personal experience if you pick someone who isn't respected and is controversial it can cause a massive exodus of members.

Again, just my $0.02c!

therein lies part of the problem.. how is a person to decide who can be a moderator...??

I kinda asked exactly the same question and my post was deleted. Presumably because I mentioned "those issues" more specifically.
I don't profess to understand why, but just accept. The wall I banged my head on caved in.

I think, however, that finally this thread has achieved something positive. The solution will inevitably need some tweaking to make everyone as "happy" with it as they can be.
What amazes me is how long it took to get there. As I said before, it's a relatively simple problem and the solution as we are seeing it is a relatively simple one too.

Why does it have to be like mating elephants? Everything done at the highest level with a massive amount of screaming noise?

Why do we need to know who the mods are? They shouldn't be known in my opinion, or should have an alias.

I just got back home and didn't realize the new section was put up yet, but I saw the announcement and clicked on it. I wasn't sure what I was looking at...whether I was in the new section or not, but I clicked the link and then realized what was going on. For those that may see this before they have their coffee in the morning, maybe a hint that clicking that link will bring them to the section would be helpful.
Other than that, the new home seems cozy. I'm sure it will work out just fine.


And TracyTN,
I don't think you are the one who is having a hard time getting your point across, I think it's me...sorry about that. I didn't mean that I thought you were somehow mad at VSC filers, I was just commenting that I really hope we can clear the air between all of us. There were comments made by others on that thread that can make people with fast timelines feel so bad about somehow getting the premium service that it can serve to begin a divide. Your right, I don't know what it's like to wait month after month in USCIS, but that is not to say my process will happen like that straight through, in fact it has already taken a detour at the Embassy. When I began this process I did not expect the rapid approval, in fact I was hunkered down to wait it out for months like everyone else. But as you all mentioned, I have nothing to do with the USCIS offices.

One more point (not directed at you Tracy)...please don't hang all of us newcomers as wanting to be spoonfed. I had my entire packet ready to go before I found VJ. I spent months reading the State.gov and USCIS sites to decipher it all. It wasn't until the night before I was mailing out the packet did I find VJ, I am so lucky I did, I found from reading the guides that I had made a few mistakes in my packet and that my I-129F form had expired. I know that withouth VJ I would not be sitting here with a USCIS approval today. And to be completly honest. I look up info or ask questions on this site, but I don't really believe any of it until I verify it through another source (Embassy, USCIS, etc) This is my K-1 petition, I wouldn't dream of leaving it up to whoever decided on answering me. I know I have made mistakes in advice before! I know the types of questions you are all talking about, and sometimes I wonder how stupid some people are...but just because some of us are newer doesn't mean we are all like that.

OK, 'nuf said.
Sue.

I know, that IS a problem. However, there are a few on this site that fit that criteria IMO. In fact, most of them are already "movers".

I was thinking that the new forum would be a place for congratulatory posts for *all* stages of the visa journey, not just K1s.

Because if they have multiple accounts, one to post with and one to mod with that just gets really confusing and is rather silly IMO. You can't have an invisible "police force", it just doesn't work. I belong to (and mod on) a few boards myself, it helps to have them known. People respect them, ask questions of them and generally behave better around them because they know that they can't be messed with.

It's just the way the average board is run, from my own experience of course.

P.S. Methinks D has her eye on a moderatorship!

Thanks Sue. I think we both see each other's side of things. And you're right - your process might lag on at the embassy, or it might zip right along there as well- and that's fine! While I may have 'speed envy' of you for that, it wouldn't make me angry at you or dislike you as a person or something. And it wouldnt make me sit and sulk while muttering "Those VSCers...geesh!" It is what it is, and someone would be having a happy reunion soon, which is always a good thing (even if its not me!).

And fwiw, I KNOW there are newbies who have their proverbial s*** together. Happens all the time. Just as there are long time VJers who give wrong advice and are seemingly lost at each step. I don't think being 'new' or 'old' should imply knowledge either. This system is so vast, you could literally learn something about it every day by being on here.

I think this is a very important point that shouldn't be overlooked. With the K1 forum remaining to be called "General Discussion", it does not make it immediately as obvious to the newer attendees that the "Case filing and progress Reports" is for those posts. The congratulatory threads etc, still fit under the category of General Discussion. I agree with devilette and Andy. Renaming both helps serve the solution better.

That said, I would be fair about it, contrary to what many think. There is a severe lack of respect on this board that needs to be corrected.

I don't think it is necessarily a lack of respect, more like an overreaction from some members (many relatively new) when they misconstrue a reply. Things can get read the wrong way and I think we are all guilty of that sometimes to a certain extent.

Those of us who care understand because we've had those days too.
I tried to take you for a facial! I should've made you a cookie... but I would've eated it.



hey Sue,

There's n00bs and there's newcomers. You know which you are... the rest of us do, too.

I agree Mags...but there's a lot of just plain rudeness too that's entirely unnecessary. You don't have to be a lollipop gang member to just not be rude, yanno? M.

apropos of nothing...

... a quick look around some topic headers this afternoon makes it seem that there is some cultural healing that needs doing around VJ---I'm starting to think that people here are annoyed with each other!

Rudeness is too often viewed thru biased eyes. People are all too often unable to see their own biases or rudeness, or that of their favorite posters.

Has anyone got the "Mover" option yet?
I know Ewok has moved some threads already, but there seems to be another thread appeared called "Touched" in the K1 forum.

Not yet. I will add people in a bit. I was upgrading the forums search feature for the main bar to allow people to search the entire site and not just the forums.

Thanks Ewok!

Gotcha. OK

In my opinion the subforum is easy to find... i saw it right away...

some people were given this option awhile back already... He is just going to add more people now.....

The most productive thread I have seen on this site!!!

The new sub-topic will require additional moderation. I think it will be handled appropriately.

thanks
sue

I can understand the K1subforums, but moving things related to the K1 questions, to the consulate forum???????????????

Everything is all over the place now. What is going on?

Going to bed, hopefully I can find the things I'm looking for tomorrow

You mean moving Embassy related topics to the Embassy forum? Appropriate. Once you move past USCIS on the K-1, it's NVC topic or Embassy.

In fact, most Non K-1 related questions posted, which have been majority as of late, were moved to the appropriate area.

Simply to get the question answered by experienced individuals that frequent those areas.

I saw the new Forum right away and I am very happy with it.
I am glad that we finally came to a solution, now we will wait and see, how that works out

Diana

Good job, Cap.

Is there going to be a way to not leave a trail behind when threads are moved though....as I pointed out earlier (and RJ and others...) the forum is going to stay quite cluttered, at least in the beginning, if that doesn't change. I don't know if it's possible to eliminate the "moved" if a thread gets moved, but if you can, it might be something to consider. Perhaps you're thinking that once people get used to this there won't be a reason to move so many threads, so it won't be a problem...I'm not sure. I think, however, as new members join the site it will continue to be a problem...until they're used to how things work around here, they will just post to the first K1 forum they see more than likely. Just my thoughts again....glad you made the forum though..it should help a lot! M.

There is not an easy way to PM people as you also want people who read the thread earlier to be able to find it again. The moved topic link will be pushed down when new topics are posted. So the answer is that without leaving the link back then the original poster and other readers would have no clue where it went.

One thing of note is that since people here mentioned that new members were having trouble searching for things I decided to upgrade the main search tool at the top. People can now search the entire site including the forums with it. The old forums search is available in the forums still (see members bar).

The new sub-forum looks fine to me. It's not quite what I had in mind since I was anticipating the new area to appear under the existing K-1 topic on the main page as a separate object from it, but a sub-forum works just as well if it stands out sufficiently. The only complaint I see is that because it's a sub-forum, there isn't a line of text to explain what it's for as there is with the renamed K-1 topic.

I was thinking about the 'moved' thread links appearing in the K-1 area, and at first it seemed a bad thing to keep seeing them, but in retrospect it's not because aside from the fact they'll move down and the way they appear in the list doesn't impede quick scanning of the active threads, it also has to be said that they act as a sort of guide to everyone too - that posts about NOAs and case progress get put somewhere else - a sort of passive moderating.

And while on the subject of moderators, to my mind the question of who they should be and whether they are known or not was where this issue got stuck last time.

My own view is that moderators should be appointed from amongst the membership. Known, long-standing members. They should have the 'moderator' tag attached to posts such that it is visible when they contribute, because for the most part their contributions would be to help guide discussions rather than edit them. The objective would be to keep topics on-topic and the posting climate as positive as possible with the lightest touch possible, and that means they have to be trusted to be able to exercise good judgement and fairness, but be able to withstand the stresses and strains of occasional abuse in reaction to their posts which would inevitably follow when certain posters are aggrieved at being 'nudged' back into line. They need to be members who are respected already, or at least who's contributions are respected - though in the somewhat combative climate out there, that might be hard to achieve!

Finally, they should be appointed for a limited time at first, such that if their actions as moderators are not appropriate to the task, another will be appointed in their place at a set time (if not before).

Above all, when responding to immigration questions, a member who is also a moderator will have to be mindful that their view, opinion or statement can readily be taken to be representative of Visa Journey as a whole rather than just of themselves as a member, making the appropriate phrasing of contributions more crucial than for any other member. Moderators must absolutely be capable of thinking first, and acting after!

Oh, and as for how they are chosen.... the problem is that Captain Ewok has to be able to work closely with them and have trust in them as part of the 'management team' so in reality he's going to have to pick them. There are several ways of going about it, the only really bad one is by asking for volunteers. I'd say the best way is one of two methods:

Method 1: Captain Ewok decides, based on whatever criteria appears to him to be most appropriate to the forum and after giving whatever thought he sees as necessary. It's not as arbitrary as it seems to do it that way - it was how the original moderating team were picked, and (not speaking for myself but the others) worked very well in practice.

Method 2: We start a new thread here asking for nominations for moderators, where any person nominating someone has to give a brief explanation as to why. After a set period, nominations close and Captain Ewok then decides who won. We can't risk it being done by popular vote because there are too many possible 'winners' who are popular because they belong to a clique or group and who would win for that reason rather than their moderating skills.

Of the two, I'd favor method 1. It's simplest and ensures Captain Ewok retains overall control. I propose 5 moderators be selected with the objective of setting them loose no later than mid-April, for perhaps 3 months as a trial. Any of the 5 could have that status revoked if there are a significant volume of complaints which Captain Ewok adjudges to be fair. If, after 3 months it seems to be working well, the moderators continue in place.