Mods can do things like mandate a single congratulatory thread (maybe one a week or something) and lock any other congratulatory threads that pop up after that, directing the poster to the existing thread. Just an example, but more moderation will help with LOADS of things that will help to clean up the board.

Well, there are good reasons it ended up this way. When Steve gave up this site, the member-based moderating team lost their control too. It happened because it was necessary to protect VJ from attack from a lawyer who's apparent intent was to close it down, and as long as the site was run and moderated by members, it was at risk of being forced out of business if any of the 'management' contributed anything that was problematic (in the legal sense). Claims of Unlicensed Practice of Law and all that, which could be directed at the site as a result of member moderation, rather than any any individual. Part of the notion of passing control to the current site admin, Captain Ewok, was that if moderating was done purely on behavioral issues not the actual content of answers/replies/explanations the site would not be vulnerable.

In a purely legal and simplistic sense it did make sense at the time, though the reality was not so much that VJ or the then moderators were at risk as that the lawyer was ... well in my humble option, barking up the wrong tree. Anyway, complicated and not really of much interest in the detail I suspect.

In the first instance after Captain Ewok took over there were a few others listed in the moderating team, but there was not much content-driven control, and now I see the 'team' is just the Captain. Discussion regarding increasing the moderating team have happened, largely due to similar concerns as being expressed here, but nothing seems to have come out of it. Ultimately, Captain Ewok, as the Site Admin is the only arbiter of choice.

As suggested by someone else, a separate "Yippee I got it/Why do I wait so long" forum would suffice. Anyone posting such threads in the general K1, K3 forums would have those threads moved, merged or otherwise. It's really not that hard and would leave serious problem solving threads and discussions behind. It would make life more bearable for posters to go into, for example the K1 forum without having all the jumping about and/or the comparisons of timelines.
Anyone who has waited as Tracy and I did will tell you, it's easier to stay away from VJ altogether than to go through the pain of seeing those threads, even their titles in the list, (before someone clever tells me to simply NOT click on those threads).

I don't think that would be an entirely safe conclusion, but in a real sense the whole issue of unlicensed practice of law was never the absolute threat that it was made out to be. The reality was that even if a complaint was filed with the appropriate state bar association(s) it would be hard to prove the point given the nature of internet discussion groups and the sheer impracticality of it. However, it was enough at the time to cause major upheaval here, which even in the absence of an actual complaint, effectively brought VJ to a standstill. Since something had to be done it made sense to hand the site over to the captain - though I regret that it meant that members ceased to have any real control of the site. That was one of the features that had made VJ strong.

I think there's a rather pleasing irony in the face of comments regarding the need for improved and increased moderation, that not only has the post I replied to in the above since gone, but also the quote of it in my own!

Yeah, I am the guilty one on that. :-p In general everyone I would like to say that moderation is a passive event and that I would emphasize that you should please report any threads using the "report tool" if you believe something is a violation of the TOS. Since generally speaking the moderation team does not read 99.9% of posts then the only way we are aware of issues is if you report them. On some of the topics brought up in this thread I would simply say that there is always a fine line between allowing absolute freedom for people to say whatever they want, and then the side where posting comments (personal attacks for example) go beyond what is acceptable. We are human and the moderation of the site will often make mistakes -- however the goal is to fairly and impartially enforce the TOS. Please at any time you can always PM me in confidence if you have any comments on how you think the site can be improved. I hope that helps!

Yes, if you read those two quotes you mentioned and ignore the others, such as:



and



You would begin to feel resentment.

There was mention of human nature earlier in this thread, and I realize that it is nature in many of us to look at things like this and get defensive before you even get to the core of the issue.

To clarify, I don't EXPECT every person who goes through VSC to make a post that is sympathetic to our situation. That would just be unreasonable. It would just be nice to have them every now and again. To date, I think I have read a total of 3. Two of which were in this thread. That is the 'unity' we're ultimately looking to accomplish, is it not?

Well with all due respect, this isn't so much a specific TOS issue as it is an issue with maintaining better order. There are, for example, myriad's of threads where some random comment drags the thing off topic so far that the OP can't realistically get further help, or follow what's being said. Other places such as the K-1 area where the littering of 'whoopee' and 'NOA' and 'monthly filer' threads makes it hard to actually pick through the content, let alone the upset it causes to everyone else. These aren't really TOS violations, but they are detrimental to the function of the site, and there are undoubtedly other examples too.

For a good reference, see this thread.

Poster#9, and a couple of people on the 2nd page to that thread. You can clearly see their frustration, but I'm missing the resentment.

I think a lot of CSC'ers conceal their true emotions for fear of being labeled or having them taken wrong... as is evident in this thread.

Just my 2 cent... as usual.

- John

altering the site so avoid hurt feelings? Im sorry - this was not the reason for the suggestion to move the service ctr threads to the USCIS Svc Ctr forum. if this early in the journey feelings are that hurt, then simply moving threads in the K1 forum isnt going to solve too much. the whole system is unfair.


Has this topic become a mountain from a molehill?

I believe it's more of altering the site to avoid 18 out of 20 posts on the first 2 K1 pages being 'I GOT NOA1!!!!' or 'I filed last week, where's my NOA2??'

More of a clutter cleanup & lettting newbies know that's where congrats posts go. That's how I took it anyhow.

I read those items quoted in the context in which they were written, nothing more, nothing less. Those were emotive forms of expression that underpin the frustrations, but which I didn't find mitigated through other comments. What's more, in the context of the wider discussion between various members in this thread (and from previous threads on the same subject) they are indicative of the kind of things that get said, whether meant or otherwise, and which in these kind of written environments are very easily the cause of upset or confrontation.

Do I think you meant them that way? No. But I think it easy, in the context of my point that 'these very sentiments are the reason people might feel there's resentment' to use forms of words that have potential to be misconstrued, and which can't readily be taken back if it happens.

It would, I agree, be nice to see sympathetic posts from VSCers, and it's sad that it doesn't really happen and that for the most part there's no obvious way for VSC filers to be collectively aware of the issue and thus be sensitive to it. That too is something that should be fixed, because it IS the same boat we are all sailing in.

With all due respect, unless I'm mistaken, it was my post that was deleted. A simple question, one line? If that's the case then I'm laughing like a drain.

Regards to PMing you with changes that should be suggested, I'm assuming that having deleted my post, whether you found it on your own, or it was reported for some unfathomable reason, I think it is not necessary to PM you. All you need do is read this thread. All the suggestions are right here.

Having said that, it does not make sense, what Andy replied if he was answering my question, so there must have been another post removed. Not sure what was so wrong with my question tho. The one beginning, "I'm assuming....."

That's all I thought too. As I said earlier it amazes me how much over analysed it had become. It's a simple problem with, what seems to me to be a simple solution. Well, I guess nothing's simple round here.

Andy,

It's good to be seeing you posting again also, although I wish it were in the 'technical' forums. I miss your insights and our discussions on them.

Yodrak

Awww.

Yodrak says VJ isn't as technical as he likes! Hehe.

I have the ability to add a "move" feature to people's accounts so that they can move threads between forums. There are several members that have this and as time goes on some of them may no longer post on the site and be able to spot these things. That was the original solution to help with this. I would be more than happy to add this ability to people's accounts that have a long time standing with the site. This feature is not a moderation thing but simply a method for people that are on the site more frequently to spot threads that are misplaced or have become misplaced and then move them accordingly. If we want I can create a sub-forum that is for immigration chatter that does not fit elsewhere (I have no clue what to call it) that things can be moved to... that is if the current forums are not enough.

Does anyone think that adding more people with the ability to move threads would be useful?



Sounds good. I PM'd you earlier which was to explain the other thing.

Yes, it would be useful. Just make sure they are responsible.

yep .

consolemaster,

That is not what I wrote. It's not even close.

Yodrak

Well, I think TracyTN seems very responsible....

Yes good idea

Yes good idea

Yes good idea, (throw this one to the masses to come up with a suitable name)

and yes I do



Seconded.

Thirded. But she'll have to change her member title!

So the end result is that all encouraging, supportive and congratulatory threads get buried somewhere in the forum dungeon that posters hardly go to, thus minimizing the encouragement, support and celebration?

No. Everyone gets a congratulatory from me.

Great.

Yeah, we know...platinum in 5 weeks?!?!

No, I think that the end would be that topics that have gone way off-topic for the forum would be moved (as of today many are not being moved and cluttering up the certain forums). Congrats threads are great but a good idea would be instead of creating one for every opportunity maybe we can have an on going one and on occasion others too. Thoughts? If needed I can create a separate forum on the main page (at bottom of Marriage Based Immigration) for "Visa Approval's and Chit Chat". It would capture the "congrats" thread and some of the more off topic (yet still marriage immigration related) topics. Just an idea.

Captain Ewok,
It would be a great idea to have a separate congratulatory, and success forum. I also want to mention that nobody uses the chatroom. Should it be closed? It's occupying space, may cause lots of money too and/or increase server load.

The chatroom doesn't load down the forum however I hope it is at least used sometimes! :-p

Still sounds like it will be in the forum dungeon. I think that a separate announcement type thread would be a good idea but if it's in a place that no one will go to, it's pointless.

I'm going to say what I was going to post earlier but didn't. I get all of what was said about whiny VSC filers, and I certainly always feel bad when I see things moving for VSC filers and CSC filers are still waiting for some sign of life from CSC. It may sound lame but I think we all experience a similar anxiety from the moment we put the package in the mail and it's all pretty much out of our hands. Granted, VSC filers usually feel that anxiety for a shorter period of time, but we need to vent, too.

It's fine to say that we should not have expectations of going from mailing to NOA1 to NOA2 within a month or six weeks. But when that is the actual time frame that things are being processed at VSC, how can we not? If 10 people have filed their application at VSC and 7 or 8 have NOA2's in 3 weeks, is it not completely normal that the 2 or 3 feel that something must be wrong with their case that they do not?

I haven't been on this board for that long so I don't know about the evolution, or devolution of it. But as I posted before, I thought that the sharing of the progress and disappointment and frustration was a part of it.

It's not a dungeon. Just a separate place like there's separate places for all sorts of things. So it takes a little while to get used to it. Not a problem.
I understand what you are saying as a VSC filer. However, the point that is being made on that front is that unless you experience the extended wait that CSC filers have, 128 days in my case, then you cannot know the anguish that causes. You can guess but not know. Tracy, I think it is fair to say, is a well seasoned poster here. Even she could not bear to come here because of the congratulatory threads of people whizzing past in relatively short times and it made matters worse when you see VSC's starting threads that express their angst, (albeit relatively justified), for waiting for 14 days!!

A further benefit of this action is to keep the K1, (and other forums), in a state where most of the showing threads are useful threads regarding actual problems and solutions pertaining to their subject. In other words there is less to sort through to find important helpful facts. If this is achieved by keeping all the "yeehaa" threads to a minimum, then I say "good show".

Yes. Just today I saw several threads that should've been moved or deleted (repeated posts).

My only fear is that by moving the chatter threads, a poster would then RE-POST it because it was moved...we would need to explain a lot that first few weeks where they went. And as much as I would welcome the chance to do so, I seem to have a lot of haters on this site..

When a topic is moved it leaves a link to the new topic in the original forum .

Is there any way to change that, Cap? If the link is left, it's going to leave the same amount of clutter to scroll through in the forum, no??? ...and the thread titles would still be there, somewhat defeating the purpose. Maybe this would only happen until people learn the correct place to post though, so it might not be such a big deal after all.

Also, how about Good News Threads and Other Chit Chat or something like that? Visa approvals are far from the only things people post congrats for....which I'm sure you know. I mean, we seee posts "we got touched!" on a frequent basis! Hehehe...I remember what it was like to be excited, but there are congrats threads for nearly *everything* you can imagine-- not just visa approvals.

I think the basic, original idea was a good one...Good News or whatever subforum...and ALLLLL oif those "WHOOOPIEEEE, GOT IT, YAY, NOA2!!, TOUCHED! threads go there or, in the beginning until people realize, gets moved there. It shouldn't take long for people to catch on.

I think this was a great topic, Tracy. We went through Nebraska back when NSC was the slow one (as RJ said) and we got through in 3 months...and we considered ourselves lucky at that time! I remember though, doing just as you did...and avoiding VJ after a while, because of all the fast approvals....VSC has always been quick but there was another fast one back then as well...can't remember if it was Texas or CA...anyway...it DOES get discouraging...and, like the rest of you, I NEVER begrudged anyone who got their approvals fast, or was annoyed with THEM in the least...it was just very, very disheartening so easier to avoid VJ altogother. Had I known I could come to VJ and avoid most all of those posts, I likely would have.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

PS...Andy, if you're still reading this...been meaning to get back to you! Have been awfully busy but things are going really well (our two year anni was Monday!) and WILL get back to you soon...appreciate your insights!!! M.

Happy Belated Anniversary!

Hi Michelle!

Yes, still watching - and I hoped that not hearing from you was the result of good stuff keeping you busy! Happy (belated) anniversary to you and Craig by the way!

And I agree with you on the link to the moved topics being just as much clutter as the unmoved topic would have been. Not a great help when trying to navigate around. I'd put the 'Whoopee! Good News! Read All About it!' sub topic inside the K-1 area itself and maybe do the same in other areas to help collect the clutter in the first place. People who see that sort of sub-area clearly for their good news, will be much easier guided to post there in the first place.

Andy

the moved threads will eventually get moved off the first couple of pages as new threads are posted, specially in the K1 forum that seems to get a lot of action....

WOW. You all were busy while I was at a hockey game last night! My darling fiance updated me a tad by phone, but still more action since.

Just a few points:

I am finally glad that I started this thread. I HOPE the discussion has bore some fruit, particularly if we can get the K1 forum back to being more helpful than 'YIPPEEE' like it is now. Believe me, I understand the YIPPEEE sentiment very well, but I don't think it serves that particular forum very well. I really appreciate everyone's comments here, and I just hope again that VSCers truly don't believe that any of us CSCers wish them ill, or are 'mad' at them (or some such affair).

I do NOT think calling the new forum a 'dungeon' is apt or even correct. It will be a dungeon if no one posts there. But as we've seen, the YIPPEEE threads are more than half the K1 forum now, so I suspect it will NOT be a dungeon. Quite the opposite, in fact, esp. once people get used to having it around.

I would be happy to help moderate/move posts around, and I appreciate being 'nominated'. But I ain't changing my member title - I worked long and hard for it! (That wasn't very reasonable of me to say, was it?

Now - on to 'what do we call the new forum' and 'where do we put it'. Perhaps a variance on what Ewok suggested: "Approvals and Service Center Chit Chat". I thought calling it 'visa approvals' suggested interview success only (instead of petition success), but maybe I'm being pedantic.

How about "Celebrating Milestones"?

same thing happened with us but the opposite... our case took over a year from start to finish but the latest stage of this immigration journey went pretty quick...

we can't get mad or annoyed at people for something that is not really under their control...

Again, its NOT about being 'annoyed' or 'mad' at VSCers. Its just not wanting a CONSTANT reminder that others are speeding past you. Hard to avoid anymore when over half of the first two pages of posts in the K1 forum are of the 'look what I got!' sort.

"Celebrating Milestones" is a good idea for a name, too!

Indeed.

Those of us who have been here ages know that. It's more difficult to convince the new members.

OMG. *rolls eyes*

I just noticed a newer thread in K1 titled 'Late March filers'.

This stuff really needs to stop..............

I think it may have to be a rather more obvious 'in your face' sort of name than that or many won't realize that it's for their service center/NOA/filer/woopee posts.

I was going to say last night - 'dungeon' is just a tad on the overdramatic side. It's not like anyone would be banned from celebrating their good news - of course people want to celebrate, but it gets out of hand when there are people constantly posting about the fact that they've got their NOA1/a touch/their cheque was cashed by USCIS/they got that card to say the USPS had delivered their petition, etc etc etc - those are hardly things that require endless threads in 'celebration' and yet they keep clogging up the front page(s), especially when that handful of people who contribute nothing to VJ other than to post hundreds of copied-and-pasted 'CONGRATULATIONS!!!!' messages to anyone and everyone every couple of weeks! I can't be the only one who's noticed questions that are awaiting an answer, not to mention threads that were right at the top and in the middle of an interesting discussion actually about something, getting bumped back to page 2 or 3 when the 'congrats on your NOA1!!!!!!' brigade comes along. It devalues the K1 forum a lot, IMO... you click on it, take one look at the first page, think 'jeeesh...' and click back out again.

Um, I'm repeating myself, anyway - but just wanted to say, I think a separate forum for congratulations and celebrations is a great idea, and maybe those monthly-filer threads could go in there too. Nothing against the monthly-filer threads, but when it takes CSC months to approve a petition, you end up with half the front page being filled with 'March filers', 'February filers', 'January filers' etc, not to mention the 'about-to-be April filers' etc... constantly there at the top of the page, and it's not something your 'average' non-March-filer (or whatever) is ever even going to venture into. I have no idea what goes on in those threads (there was no 'October filers' one, as far as I know!), but if it's just a load of people hanging out and whiling away the wait together, it makes sense... I just hope questions that might be of interest to a wider community than the people who happened to file during that calendar month get posted separately on the main forum, where someone who didn't only just file the previous week, and might reasonably be able to help, will see them!

Oops. Rambling. But just wanted to say, there is no need for a new 'celebrations/announcements/whatever' forum to become a 'dungeon' - unless people actively rebel against it and refuse to post in it (I've seen this on other sites, where people have objected to the creation of new forums and made a concerted effort to boycott them - am assuming nobody is that childish here!) - but if new threads get moved in there, and duplicates get locked, there won't be much choice. Everyone would know where to go to post about their exciting news, anyone looking for news of new NOA2s would know where to look (because of course, when you are at that 'any day now...' stage, new approvals are very exciting to hear about... less so, I'd imagine, when you've passed that 'any day now...' stage by several weeks and think you might have to poke your own eyes out with a stick if you see just one more 'OMG, NOA2, YAY!!!!' thread title)... it's a win-win situation all round, I think. Even the post-whorey types would know where to go when they feel the need to congratulate 50 random strangers in the space of half an hour on the fact that their case has been touched...

I will stop rambling now!

I agree, great name and idea for a forum. It might be a little tricky at first to make the switch, but eventually I think it would be effective.

Not sure where the threads that are "this is unfair because my approval has not come yet" would go with this title. Maybe we need a 'Celebrating Milestones" and a "I've lost my mind and need to rant thread"

Maybe "Celebrating And/Or Gnashing Your Teeth Over Milestones" (y'know 'another week passes and still no *$%@*# NOA2!' - that kind of milestone)...