An Irish Face on the Cause of Citizenship

NY Times, March 16, 2006
By NINA BERNSTEIN


Rory Dolan's, a restaurant in Yonkers, was packed with hundreds of illegal Irish immigrants on that rainy Friday night in January when the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform called its first meeting. Niall O'Dowd, the chairman, soon had them cheering.
Skip to next paragraph
Ruby Washington/The New York Times

Niall O'Dowd says the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform will seek a special arrangement for the Irish if a broad immigration bill fails.

"You're not just some guy or some woman in the Bronx, you're part of a movement," Mr. O'Dowd told the crowd of construction workers, students and nannies. He was urging them to support a piece of Senate legislation that would let them work legally toward citizenship, rather than punishing them with prison time, as competing bills would.

For months, coalitions of Latino, Asian and African immigrants from 50 countries have been championing the same measure with scant attention, even from New York's Democratic senators. But the Irish struck out on their own six weeks ago, and as so often before in the history of American immigration policy, they have landed center stage.

Last week, when Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Charles E. Schumer declared their support for a new path to citizenship, and denounced criminal penalties recently passed by the House of Representatives, they did so not at the large, predominantly Hispanic immigrant march on Washington, but at the much smaller Irish rally held there the following day.

Some in the immigrant coalitions resent being passed over, and worry that the Irish are angling for a separate deal. Others welcome the clout and razzmatazz the Irish bring to a beleaguered cause. And both groups can point to an extraordinary Irish track record of lobbying triumphs, like the creation of thousands of special visas in the 1980's and 90's that one historian of immigration, Roger Daniels, calls "affirmative action for white Europeans."

Mainly, though, they marvel at the bipartisan muscle and positive spin the illegal Irish can still muster, even as their numbers dwindle to perhaps 25,000 to 50,000 across the country — those left behind by a tide of return migration to a now-prosperous Ireland.

This week, as the Senate Judiciary Committee wrestles with a comprehensive immigration bill, towns across the country are preparing to celebrate their Irish roots. On Friday, St. Patrick's Day, President Bush is to meet with Ireland's prime minister, Bertie Ahern, who has vowed to put the legalization of the Irish at the top of his agenda. And Irish Lobby volunteers are ready to leverage the attention, with "Legalize the Irish" T-shirts and pressure on senators like Rick Santorum, Republican of Pennsylvania, who is in a tight race against Bob Casey Jr., a Democrat of Irish ancestry.

The new Irish dynamic is all the more striking because the Republican Party is fiercely split over immigration, and many Democrats have hung back from the fray, judging the issue too hot to handle in an election year.

"They're still good at the game," said Linda Dowling Almeida, who teaches the history of Irish immigration at New York University. She and other historians noted that in the mid-19th century, Irish immigrants used the clout of urban political machines and leadership by the Roman Catholic Church to beat back a nativist movement that saw them as a threat to national security and American culture.

More recently, Mr. O'Dowd, the publisher of The Irish Voice, was himself part of a lobby that leaned on legislators with Irish heritage to engineer more than 48,000 visas for the Irish, legalizing many who had re-greened old Celtic neighborhoods in New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

But much has changed. After 9/11, a groundswell of anger over illegal immigration converged with national security concerns, propelling a populist revolt across party lines. Immigration is now seen as a no-win issue in electoral politics. And both opponents and supporters of legalization take a more jaundiced view of the Irish role in the debate.

"They're essentially saying, 'Look, we're good European illegal immigrants,' " said Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which supports the House and Senate measures that would turn "unlawful presence," now a civil violation, into a crime. "The reason they've been more successful is the same reason it appeals to editors — immigration nostalgia from 150 years ago."

Cont at http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/16/nyregion...=th&oref=slogin

*****

I have to say, why should any particular ethnic grouping get special treatment over the others? Because they're white and speak English and come from Europe? Pull the other one - it plays jingle bells. If Ireland is such a properous country nowadays they should be able to afford visas to come here legally. I have a lot more sympathy for illegal immigrants from poor countries than rich ones.

This is a frequent subject of discussion in Irish bars and in "The Irish Voice", a newspaper available in New York stands .... A toast to our Irish amigos, Cheers!

Amiga, maybe you forgot about the "potato famine" that ruined countless Irish lives? Times have certainly changed a bit in Ireland since the potato famine, however I doubt that the folks who came to America left a much better life in Shannon or Dublin. Or perhaps you haven't meet any of them yet... Immigrants are treated like dirt, it really doesn't matter where they come from.

I'm sorry. Illegal is illegal. I don't care where you are from.

Reform needs to come in another way. It used to be (immigration nostalgia) you could just get on a boat and register yourself at Ellis Island. Now you have to have a reason - student, job, marriage. Give me your tired, your hungry, your poor is now replaced with isolatism.

The cure is not in handing out free passes to those who have tried to circumvent the isolatism. The cure is to turn the tide on it.

This is the rally I was talking about in the Guest Worker thread.. I watched part of it on TV and you've hit it on the head.. they are playing the race card and aren't even shy about it.
To break into the country illegally, knowing it's an illegal act and knowing that you are going to work the system over, and then to demand a special act to legitimate your crimes.. too much gall and not enough humility.
Hillary really lost ground with me here.. might have even been the final straw for me, where she's shown herself to be no better than the career politicians so many of us are already sick of.

I think most of the people who came to the US because of the the potato famine are already a citizen because they were born here, as were about 4-5 generations before them. EU membership and funding and the Celtic Tiger are a little more recent - people from Ireland are hardly the oppressed masses living in thatched cottages heated by a peat fire

I agree. I hate the stereotypical image of Ireland, and it's just so embarrassing to see this continually used today, even by born and bred Irish themselves.

The potato famine was centuries ago! At the time, yes, I can understand entirely why people were leaving... and if there was suddenly a major crisis like that there I'd understand people wanting to jump ship again. But there's not. From everything I've heard, conditions in Ireland have been continually improving.
If you want to be a refugee, you have to have something to take refuge FROM... just saying 'I want to go to America and I don't want to wait for paperwork' isn't good enough.

The Cyclops are back... Perhaps I didn't express myself very well or you can't read between the lines. I was not implying that Ireland today is the same as Ireland in the 19th century. Obviously, Irish folks don't immigrate en masse to the New World anymore. Then again, the few illegal Irish immigrants who are here today obviously are not here for pleasure, and haven't left their homeland because they were so much better off back home, neither have the 10 or so million undocumented foreign workers currently on US soil. All I can say is that the narrow minded, ignorant, phobic attitude of the 19th or 20th centuries is exactly the same which now targets the newcomers from other parts of the world. It's the same story, only the names changed. Whether people like immigrants or not, legal or not, really, I don't care anymore. I've come to the conclusion that one can't open the Cyclops eye no matter what.

Hi Satisfaction,

You certainly appear to be on a different planet. Illegal immigrants are illegal aliens, whether they come from Ireland, Peru, Bangledesh, Mexico or anywhere else for that matter. I find it sickening that some Irish have hopped on the bandwagon and played the old Irish tune that they should get special treatment when it comes to legalising them. The arguement in the media at home in Ireland that these people should be given a break is just ludicrous. Yes they should be given a break if every other nationality gets one, but to single out a nation just because of the ties that the two countries have is not right. Illegal Irish claim that they can't come home to see family and for funerals etc. They can buy an airline ticket right. This whole fiasco just makes a mockery of all the genuine people that do everything by the book and make the sacrifices to get into this country in the first place. As for your comment about the poor people of Shannon and Dublin and putting it into the context that a lot of people come here as a nessecity to get out poverty at home, i can only say that i think you are talking out of your posterier. The vast majority of people who came to the US in the last 20 years or so are not peasants. In fact i know of numerous people who in the last number of years have arrived here to work and are from well off families. They didn't leaving because the potato harvest failed!! I think you should see if you can catch a ride back to your Galaxy.

It's actually pretty straightforward -- a group of illegal immigrants who are probably in the least need of amnesty are getting special attention from mainstream politicians, including a frontrunner for president. Why? Because they are white and from Western Europe and speak English. Hillary wouldn't dare appear in front of a group of illegal Mexicans or Venezuelans or Zimbabweans demanding citizenship because it would be political suicide. I think everyone on this thread (from what I have read) have expressed nuanced opinions about immigration policy, I'm not too sure who the "cyclops" are supposed to be.

Besides, in spite of your rather condescending remarks I don't think you have any clue what modern Ireland looks like, and probably aren't aware that the state of the Irish economy has created some immigrations issues of its own for Ireland.

Indeed it has.

Hi durruscowboy

People who obtain working visas are not illegal aliens. The 50,000 Irish who are undocumented are in a very different situation than foreign workers who have entered the US with a working visa, and so are folks from Mexico, India or Bangadesh or another "galaxy" in this regard. Weatlhy folks don't typically need to immigrate to America for a better future and certainly don't need to remain here illegally unless perhaps they are totally misguided philanthropist millionaires. Let's see... I have a million and I'm going to involve myself in some projects, what about engaging in some community activities in the Bronx?......hmm. I think it's rather a good idea!

What you say about the Irish seeking special treatment is totally false. They are fighting for the rights of the immigrant community, not just themselves. I have not implied/written that Irish illegals are "peasants" (perhaps your backwards looking - impaired vision is why you can't read?). In fact, their cognition is fully developped and functional, as opposed to yours.

As far as for me living in another galaxy, it suits me perfectly fine as long as it is as far away as possible from the Cyclops galaxy of yours. It doesn't matter if you think you have some superior insight into life. The fact is, nobody cares. Anyway, let me not waste time and let you guys talk, I have to pack for the long journey back to my galaxy...

Oh they're fighting for the rights of everyone are they? What was that about not being able to read?:


Niall O'Dowd says the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform will seek a special arrangement for the Irish if a broad immigration bill fails.

For months, coalitions of Latino, Asian and African immigrants from 50 countries have been championing the same measure with scant attention, even from New York's Democratic senators. But the Irish struck out on their own six weeks ago, and as so often before in the history of American immigration policy, they have landed center stage.

Last week, when Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Charles E. Schumer declared their support for a new path to citizenship, and denounced criminal penalties recently passed by the House of Representatives, they did so not at the large, predominantly Hispanic immigrant march on Washington, but at the much smaller Irish rally held there the following day.

Some in the immigrant coalitions resent being passed over, and worry that the Irish are angling for a separate deal. Others welcome the clout and razzmatazz the Irish bring to a beleaguered cause. And both groups can point to an extraordinary Irish track record of lobbying triumphs, like the creation of thousands of special visas in the 1980's and 90's that one historian of immigration, Roger Daniels, calls "affirmative action for white Europeans."

I could tell you that average household income in Ireland is roughly 50,000 euros a year and unemployment is below 5%, but since you don't seem interested in using reason to back up your arguments, I'm reminded of me of the scene in Annie Hall where Woody Allen tells Christopher Walken "I have to go now, because I, I'm due back on the planet Earth"

I find it really hard to believe that the unemployment rate is below 5% and I also find it hard to believe that the average household income is 50,000.00 euros. That doesn't apply to the majority of the people I know there.

I know for a fact that even though Dublin is booming, there are a lot of people out of work due to a large number of Polish immigrants taking jobs at a much lower hourly wage. I am not saying anything negative about the Polish-just stating a fact.

Immigration policies do need major reform that is without a doubt. I do not believe that certain people should get preferential treatment-it seems like they(the politicians) were trying to say the the Irish has contributed a great deal to this country................going back many years. In my opinion many Irish decendants helped build this country(obviously side by side with many other ethnic groups).

I believe Hillary Clinton's maid is from Ireland and that is how all of this came about(at least that is what I heard). Apparently she has not been able to go home b/c of visa issues. If she left the country she would have been "out of status". I am assuming that is why Hillary took up this cause-so to speak.

Can't Hillary fill out the papers for a B or a J visa? Sheesh.

I know right??? Look at what she started


That woman must have some serious "dirt" on Hillary is she is willing to go through all this to get the woman and her fellow Irish visas.

You would think she had some pull with USCIS

But is that for real, or just some urban-Irish-myth? Not knocking anyone, but the Irish have been known to embellish their stories My brother is notorious for his BS

According to the CIA fact book it is true -- look, there are people who are not that well off in Ireland, that's true. But, you know, having travelled throughout China and Southeast Asia, they don't have it so bad. I don't see Clinton and Shumer are appearing in front of a group of Chinese people supporting immigration reform, when the consequences of returning to their country may be much worse for them.

So hillary is employing someone who is illegal is she? Paying their taxes and social security I hope. But you know what what really makes my blood boil -- politicians who try and bend the rules for their own domestic help (like David Blunkett in the UK, and Hillary apparently though I know nothing of her maid) when many people here can't be with their own spouse in this country.


I'm actually going to go Google, Mand -- it sounds more like a right wing conspiracy theory to me, but I must find out!

well.......................it was an Irishman who told me this wee little bit of info


He said that is how this all got started-something about her maid being illegal, she had no idea what Irish people were going through here, and it wasn't until her maid's situation came to light, that she realized so many were unable to go home to visit. Even people that are here legally-aos pending I assume. It is true that if God forbid something happens to someone in your home country and you are here waiting for your greencard, you need advance parole to go home.

Maybe that is how this started?????? I can't confirm or deny

You know, if it is/was true it would totally sink her chances for '08. You remember when her other half tried finding an attorney general? I went and did a google and couldn't finding anything, particularly anyone in the Free Republic forum foaming at the mouth, so who knows?

But you know, there's a period of time when many LEGAL aliens can't fly home -- you go through all the hoops for a K visa and then your father has a heart attack a week after you arrive -- you be screwed. If Hillary wanted to do something about that I might reconsider voting for her.

Okay, you have got to be kidding me right?

My crying towel has a big ol' hole in it.........................

true

you can come here and live but until your paperwork is finished, you better hope nothing requires you to go home. Even I would consider her if she made some positive changes.

Special treatment would mean outright racism.

Ireland itself is a nation which is against immigration. They are afraid of new EU member nations from the East. They are afraid of losing their comfortable jobs to people who would work for less.

Last week I saw the front page of an Irish newspaper...it was a story of how immigration will revitalize Irish economy and help strengthen pension system/social security. The influx of young immigrants...

But the people are against immigration.

I recently sent my CV to an Irish company in response to their job ad on an American website. I received a negative reply because I was not a citizen of an EU member nation...that Irish Government did not allow others in that position to work etc etc. However I would like to note the fact that the job advertisement was placed on an American job board. The Irish woman in charge of human resources wrote me a long e-mail trying to explain why I am not eligible because of my nationality/ethnicity/religion..... of course not fully expressing the reason. Racism and anti-immigrant sentiment is very high in Ireland.

I don't understand what you are complaining about. Before my husband moved to Ireland, he was sending his CV/resume off to Irish based companies and was also told that because he was not an EU citizen and did not hold a valid work authorization, he was not eligible to work in Ireland...just as I was not allowed to work in the US without a valid work authorization.

He then went through the process of obtaining an Irish work authorization based on his IT skills, this authorization was his and not company specific. In this world, if you want something enough, you have to go and get it yourself and not expect others to do it for you.

The Irish Company put its job announcement on an American job board (not Monster or hotjobs or similar...a professional-specific American job board). That implies that the company is willing to hire people who reside in America. It was not a job board that adressed only the Irish either. However when it comes to my application they conveniently choose telling me about ineligibility because I did not hold EU passport. The Irish woman who replied my inquiry did not specify the reason for my ineligibility but I think that is also related to the fact that I am Muslim.


She wrote also that the Irish Government did not authorize non-EU nationals application for work permit for that job. So 'wanting it and getting it yourself' attitude does not work here.

Now it is time to CLARIFY what I have been 'complaining about'...
Irleand is not an immigrant-friendly country. Its people are negative about immigration. There have been talks of citizenship based on blood there... That is the Third Reich approach for you.

And here I see people seeking preferential treatment for Irish immigrants. That I do not agree with. Even suggesting this is outright racism. Ireland itself is anti-immigrant...why accomodate and reward anti-immigrant people here?

I see that some people see having a considerable Irish existence in America as a support for their advocacy of more Irish immigrants and special treatment for Irish immigrants. It should be other way around. There are too many Irish immigrants here therefore a special treatment must address curbing further Irish immigration to America. For the sake of diversity.

Y'know what...I get it, you have a gripe with Ireland for some reason...build a bridge and get over it, cos I haven't the energy nor inclination today.

It ain't just talk...but I wouldn't compare it to Fascism. However, I do see a double standard going on here.



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/06/...l?from=storylhs

Sound familiar? Just imagine if America passed such a law? (We probably should, but that's besides the point.) The lunatic fringe would be rioting in the streets screaming that bad old evil xenaphobic racist America was denying all these poor illegal aliens' babies their rights to free public services at taxpayer expense.

Talk about double standards. Illegal immigration is always somehow justified as long as MY little ethnic group are the ones doing it.

Give me a break! I got a wee bit (maybe an eighth) of Irish blood in me, but that doesn't make me any more inclined to support these Irish hypocrites any more than the Mexican hypocrites that excuse illegal immigration of THEIR buddies.

The whole lot of them need to get sent packing. (They can take Teddy Kennedy with them!) With a 10 year ban on legal reentry to boot. The laws are on the books already...let's do it and set the tone once and for all. No more amnesties!

internetkafe,

Sounds a lot like you’re pissed at Ireland or maybe just the whole EU? I can understand being pissed at not being able to obtain a job because you’re not an EU national or if you can’t obtain the correct documentation in Ireland. I don’t think that’s discrimination it’s the bearcats doing their jobs! I still cant obtain a job in the US and it isn’t because I’m Irish, isn’t because I’m Catholic, isn’t because I’m white and it isn’t because I have a different accent.. it’s simply because I have to go through the system by the book.. like everyone else! There are certain jobs here in the US that I can’t ever get as a non US citizen and I understand that… that isn’t discrimination or racism it’s simply a right and privilege US citizens possess that I don’t.

Saying that Ireland is outright racist is just wrong and in my opinion.. Stupid.. Ireland opened its doors to 10 new member states joining the EU from the east. No offence but last time I checked Turkey was not a member of the EU, it was barley being considered as a potential member. Ireland has allowed new immigrants into the country while other existing EU states preferred to have the new states wait before allowing their citizens into their country.

Of course people back home are not too friendly to immigrants.. would you be happy if you got laid off from your job because your boss found someone else to do your job for less than half the money you where being paid? Would you be happy knowing your taxes are being used to pay for illegal immigrants that arrive in your country only to have a baby then claim full benefits from the state… house, income support, health care, education.. ect from my experience back home that’s (unfortunately) how quite a few people think.. more needs to be done back home to show people that immigrants are not a bad thing.

I am not pissed at Ireland.
I was just describing a symptom I had opportunity to study.

I find it disgusting to see illegal Irish immigrants wanting special treatment.
If you are here illegally it should not matter where you are from. Citing historical Irish immigration to America as a supporting factor does not do good. Personally I am in favor of diversifying immigration to this country. And for this Irish immigration should be curbed. Just like immigration from other countries which sent millions of immigrants here in the past.

I pointed to a hypocrisy there. If you are against immigration and immigrants at home how can you ask for special treatment for illegal Irish immigrants in the US?

Turkey's EU ambitions is not the subject here. Since you mentioned it...personally I am opposed to the idea. Turkey is a Muslim country and historically the leader of Islamic World. Turkey will find her dignity in leading an Islamic Union..not by being a third-rate part of a Christian Union. The dignity and liberation for Muslim countries is in this direction...disengaging themselves from others and creating a sound economy based on a wealth of both natural resources and human capital.

As for the job application..all I can say is that they put the announcement on a foreign (American) job board (not international). They were willing to hire foreigners. Otherwise they would not spend money to put that ad there. There were no mentioning of EU citizenship. But when I applied new requirements came up all of a sudden. That was certainly discrimination. I do not think it is the Irish only to have this type of mentality.

I find it quite disgusting to find fellow immigrants judging and finger pointing at our illegal brother & sister immigrants based solely on their status. The last time I checked the legal immigrants here in the US didn’t have the right to judge another group in fact none of us has that right. The US was and is made up of many, many different types of people from across the globe; the US was created by immigrants. Sorry people but, unless you have some heavy duty native American in you.. you’re most likely the product of an immigrant or set(s) of immigrants yourself! “Diversifying immigration” what exactly does that mean? I thought that’s what the “diversity lottery” was for? God you want to curb Irish immigration? Sounds like you have some double standards of your own.. you do know that more people live in New York City than there are living in the whole of Ireland? Ireland is a tiny wee place!

No offence intended but.. I find your line of thinking.. more than just hypocritical I fail to see the logic in it. Read over my previous post again I think you should see that I’m not against immigrants at home, I pointed out some of the reasons people at home find to dislike or distrust immigrants. People are people first and foremost to me, I grew up in a time and an area where mistrust, division and conflict where peoples principal priorities. I try not to repeat history or simply judge people based on who they are or where they come from! I don’t believe my own people should be given preferential treatment over anyone else here.. but if we can help highlight and direct the attention of people in authority to the situation and help bring about the legalisation of some of the people here illegally… then that can’t be a bad thing! I’m not saying it’s ok to be here illegally, I’m saying there are many, many people here illegally and the problem should be addressed but not by criminalisation or breeding division.

Well I was all for the idea of Turkey becoming part of the EU, I believe Turkey would and could help diversify the EU.. but as you said that isn’t the subject here. Third rate part of a Christian union.. good god man.. you have a nerve to talk about “hypocrisy” you sound like your just a racist in a way yourself!

As for the job application.. if you believe so strongly in “creating a sound economy based on wealth of both natural resources and human capital” (is it just me or does that sound communist?) for Turkey or the Islamic/musilm world.. then why where you looking for a job in a different country? You really should make up your mind about things… I’m almost glad new requirements came up.. don’t know if I’d want an employee as confused as you working for me! You’re totally right not just us Irish have “this mentality” looks like you’ve got a severe.. chronic dose of it yourself!

I have add my $0.02 in here because no one has mentioned this yet.

Did you stop to think that perhaps they advertised this job on an American job board because of the massive amount of people living in America that have dual (American and any EU country) citizenship?? And actually, nevermind...they don't even need dual citizenship. There are tons of people who are working here temporarily, even people who come visit family for a couple months out of the year, people who are members of the EU...I believe that job advertisement was aimed at them. It wasn't aimed at Americans who don't have work authorization to work in an EU country. Trust me, I know. I tried to get work in Ireland a few years ago when I was naive enough to think I could just work wherever I wanted anywhere in the world. And I couldn't. Why? Cuz I'm American. And America isn't part of the EU.

Most people realize that one either has to have special work authorization to work in another country, or be a citizen of that country (or group of countries as is the case with the EU). It's just common sense (which I shamelessly admit to not having any of a few years ago).

I'm totally not trying to be rude here...but you need to get your head out of your hole and realize the world isn't out to get people who aren't exactly like them. There are just certain rules we have to follow. Rules that we might not like, but have to follow regardless. *shrug*

As for the job application.. if you believe so strongly in “creating a sound economy based on wealth of both natural resources and human capital” (is it just me or does that sound communist?) for Turkey or the Islamic/musilm world.. then why where you looking for a job in a different country? You really should make up your mind about things… I’m almost glad new requirements came up.. don’t know if I’d want an employee as confused as you working for me! You’re totally right not just us Irish have “this mentality” looks like you’ve got a severe.. chronic dose of it yourself!
[/quote]


'Why was I looking for a job in a different country?' Why is the Irish looking for business and jobs in Iraq?
I do believe so strongly in creating a sound economy based on wealth of both natural resources and human capital for this very reason. I 'was looking for a job in a different country' because they have been looking for 'jobs' in 'a different country'.

Quoted from http://portaliraq.com :




Quoted from http://rigzone.com :




Quoted from http://lse.co.uk :

Ok let me get this straight…

Is all your moaning and ranting about an Irish Oil company doing business in Iraq?
I think not…

Good god man please don’t tell me you’re getting on your “the evil west are occupying a Muslim county” horse… if you are, your backing the wrong horse my friend

I do not get it, if you have those views wtf do you want to move to the US?

I am already in the US.
BTW WTF ARE YOU?

Whoa.

No need to get hostile. It's just a discussion forum. You should try something relaxing, like gardening or yoga.

I think alike too. Boiler should try something relaxing, like gardening or yoga.

*yawn*

If there's any such thing as putting words in someone's mouth over the internet, you certainly just did so.

And that's not nice.

Oops. That was me, not aidan80.

I thought the Irish already got special treatment. I heard..and I don't know if this is true...that Ireland sends over 50,000 immigrants every five years to the US but still qualifies for the green card lottery, which if they send that many immigrants, they shouldn't. Not as special as Cuba, but more special than most wouldn't you say? That's of course assuming that what I heard is true.

No offense to ye but.. I’s love to know were you could “hear” such a pile of $hite ! I’d love to know were the red carpet was for me when I arrived!

I paid for my Visa, the medical and the various travel expenses back & forth.. and for the other documentation as needed. I packed up my life into two suitcases and came to an alien country to be with my wife. We married within the 90 days, paid for the AOS & paid for my EAD. We’ve been paying our bills, taxes and everything else ever since. What special about that, sounds very normal to me!

I have read (google it, it’s out there I’m sure) that there were something in the region of 50,000 Irish currently (from Ireland) in the US without proper documentation, illegal as you like to put it.

If there were 50,000 Irish arriving in the US every 5 years (10,000 per year) then I’m sure Ireland wouldn’t be allowed to take part in the VWP? I also doubt very much that Ireland North & South would be allowed to take part in the Green Card Lottery. I also doubt there would be that many Irish people left in Ireland after a few decades of such mass immigration. You do know there are probably more people living in and around New York City than there are in all of Ireland!

I wouldn’t take anything you “hear” as the truth without first doing some research on the matter. I suggest you start with looking at the population of Ireland, North & South. Also have a look at modern immigration from Ireland to the US and how the Green Card Lottery actually operates. Sorry but it isn’t the 1800’s anymore!

I don’t support people, governments or political parties that support special treatment for any one group of immigrants over another. I’m very much against special treatment.

Isn't the total limit for the lottery 50,000? From all eligible nations?

*I may have read that it's been raised to 60,000?*

*shrug* I don't really care about Ireland* (sorry) so I haven't researched it. I did read somewhere that Ireland qualifies for the diversity lottery, but the rest of it comes from the mouths of the British, who have complained bitterly to me that the Irish get 'special treatment.' Then again, I should know better than to trust anything the British say about the Irish, and vice versa. There's still a wee bit of tension there.



* I'm one of those rare white Americans who DOESN'T claim Irish ancestry, hence Ireland has never interested me one bit. I got nothing against Ireland; I just got nothing for it either, if that makes any sense.

That is correct, the total limit that I have read is 50,000. I honestly don’t know if that number has been raised. The number of places allocated for both the North & South of Ireland should be on the Department of State website for those who are interested.

If you don’t care then why are your attempting to talk about something you admit you know nothing about ? Didn’t I just say Ireland North & South qualify for the Diversity Lottery Program, why is that? The answer is on the Department of State website educate yourself by looking it up!

Ah so the British complain about how we get special treatment, suppose all the British people living in Ireland also get special treatment as well do they ? I think maybe you mean your partner and or their friends complained about it or your just a troll ? Hardly qualifies as “the British” dose it? Well again I’ll tell you go read the Department of State website and you’ll see exactly how and why Ireland qualifies for the Diversity Lottery program and Briton doesn’t. Actually there isn’t any tension.. I think your about 10 years too late for that, maybe you should do some reading and less listening to what you “hear”.

Yes you are one of those rare white Americans that does there absolute best to give the rest of your country men & women a bad name.

I LIVE in the UK, so I talk to limeys all day, every day. "The British" indeed.

Jesus, you're cranky. Oh, and if you're going to insult me...at least check your grammar and punctuation. By the way, 'your' is a possessive/attributive pronoun. I believe the word YOU'RE looking for is 'YOU'RE.' Why don't YOU do some research and learn the English language properly?

Don't even get me started on the special treatment Ireland has gotten from the EU. A lot of that recent financial success has come from western European taxpayers dealing with much higher unemployment rates. Now the Irish are throwing their toys out of the pram because countries like Poland are going to get a lot of the subsidy that formerly went to Ireland. WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH!

What is all this shite about. Ireland does not get special rights. As aidan said i went through the same process. My family are not exactly poor. I didnt leave due to the potatoe famine . My wife and myself left a very good lifestyle back in Ireland.

This argument that ireland does not agree with immigration is a load of shite. In my hometown back in Galway we have over 700 brazilians living in the town. They are well liked and bring alot of color to the town. Does that strike racism. I worked with alot of non eu immigrants and they had no problems. Every town in ireland has a story like this.

It just strikes me that the turkish poster is resentfull for the fact that he/she didnt get the job in ireland. The last time i checked turkey wasnt in the EU and won't be for quite a number of years. Ireland of course got favours from the EU during the 80's but who didnt with any new emerging nation.

The UK poster is just a typical english view of ireland. Get a life. Ireland don't get special favours.

They do; everyone in Europe seems prepared to acknowledge this except the Irish. That's OK, I can understand why they don't...there are massive subsidies to protect.

As for racism in Ireland...I only know what I've heard, and what I've heard doesn't paint a pretty picture. Rest assured Ireland isn't the only country in Europe where racism exists. I knew a Mexican couple here in the UK who were harassed and vandalized out of their home in Manchester because the neighbors thought they were Pakistani.