Full Version: In theory......
If a UK male citizen visited his US wife-to-be, BEFORE filing any K1 and while visiting decided to get married on the spot, what are the pros and cons? What is the procedure? What is likely to happen and what is the worst that could happen?
Pro? It's fast.
Con? If you PLAN to get married on the spot that's immigrant intent. This leads to other bad things.
The procedure? I have NO idea.
The worst that could happen? You get deported and barred from re-entering.
Con? If you PLAN to get married on the spot that's immigrant intent. This leads to other bad things.
The procedure? I have NO idea.
The worst that could happen? You get deported and barred from re-entering.
Well it is no longer in theory as its already been said lol.
In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 15 2007, 09:14 AM) 
In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
too late to edit, so I'll correct here...not to many adults have the ease to sever all ties so quickly. Leases/mortgages, job, all your personal belongings, tying up everything in the UK...bank accts. personal belongings, etc. I wouldn't be able to say how many have done it successfully or un, but I wouldn't know how to answer these questions if the officer asked me 'where did you live, when did you quit your job, etc' it's all very CSI to me...this can piece together a picture of you planning on emigrating illegally.
QUOTE(SteveUK_BreezyUS @ Mar 15 2007, 07:44 AM)
If a UK male citizen visited his US wife-to-be, BEFORE filing any K1 and while visiting decided to get married on the spot, what are the pros and cons? What is the procedure? What is likely to happen and what is the worst that could happen?
In theory you would be entering the country with immigrant intent as it's written in black and white right here for the world to see!
Is it worth the risk? That's up to you. Plenty of people have done it, but there's no way I would put my arse on the line.
The whole "intent" argument has been thoroughly gone through.
I agree, i would not put my arse on the line that way.
I agree, i would not put my arse on the line that way.
Yeah what they said.
Are you in the UK or are you already here in the US???
Kez
Kez
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 15 2007, 06:25 AM)
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 15 2007, 09:14 AM)
In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
too late to edit, so I'll correct here...not to many adults have the ease to sever all ties so quickly. Leases/mortgages, job, all your personal belongings, tying up everything in the UK...bank accts. personal belongings, etc. I wouldn't be able to say how many have done it successfully or un, but I wouldn't know how to answer these questions if the officer asked me 'where did you live, when did you quit your job, etc' it's all very CSI to me...this can piece together a picture of you planning on emigrating illegally.
WHAT? There's no requirement to sever your ties to your homeland! I've never even seen that implied before.
On the legality side of things, this is how it works:
If you enter on the VWP or a holiday visa that means you are entering - and telling the government that you are entering - for a specific period of time for a specific non-immigrant purpose. If that's not what you're doing, then you're lying to the United State Government.
How much do you think they like that sort of thing?
Legally, however, there is no prohibition, per se, on you falling in love with someone quite out of the blue, or even suddenly deciding to take the leap with your girlfriend, and up and marrying. Just getting married doesn't even post a legal problem.
The potential problems come if you try to stay past the date they told you to leave by when you came in (90 day son the VWP, or whatever you got on a tourist visa, etc). The way to fix that problem is to file your papers to adjust status once you are married (that's the "green card" process). You cannot leave the U.S. after you file those papers and expect to get back in again without either asking for "advanced parole" (meaning advanced permission to re-enter the US), having your green card, or starting with the entire K3 visa process from your home country.
The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.
HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.
As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.
There are huge consequences if you commit fraud. But only you know what is in your mind and only you know your situation.
You do not need to comment further on either your mind or your situation here. No one here wants or intends to tell you how to skirt the visa process. But you are within your rights to ask about laws and regulations and take this free advice for what it is worth - so long as you understand that none of us here is a lawyer, works for the government, or can tell you for sure what can/will happen to you.
QUOTE
The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.
HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.
As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.
HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.
As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.
Please show me where you got this information from..... Most of us who have completed AOS from a VWP/Toursut visa were never aske to produce any evidence the we did not intend to marry and remain within the USA.... there are way to many people who are willing to say how wrong it is to do AOS from a VWP/Tourist visa....
Kez
QUOTE(Niagaenola @ Mar 15 2007, 09:10 AM)
QUOTE
The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.
HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.
As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.
HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.
As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.
Please show me where you got this information from..... Most of us who have completed AOS from a VWP/Toursut visa were never aske to produce any evidence the we did not intend to marry and remain within the USA.... there are way to many people who are willing to say how wrong it is to do AOS from a VWP/Tourist visa....
Kez
Pssst - Kez - think before you type man. No one here is going to say "yeah, do it that way" because that would be admitting that you can do it the non-proper way and the terms of service here say that breaking the law is bad. So do morals, the bible, and the US government. Many people who entered on VWP met people after they entered, so they probably didnt' have immigrant intent, so they don't have to worry because they aren't breaking a law. Some people - hell, probably a lot of people - came in on a tourist visa with a wedding dress in their luggage and had no problems later with AOS. But people are going to be very specific and careful with their responses here.
I don't think it is wrong to adjust status after entry on a VWP/tourist visa. But what I think and what the law says are two very, very different things. Hell, I'm jealous if someone can do it that way at this point. But again, my opinion on the matter is worth less than two-cents. A judge at a deportation hearing won't give a sh*t.
We've seen plenty of replies on the board where people say "actually, there was really no headache or problem going through AOS after entry on a non-K visa." But we aren't going to tell people who are premeditating on entering with immigrant intent to do so. This is a public forum and anyone can read it. Don't be like a junior high kid on myspace and think it can't lead to trouble later. Big trouble.
So yes, you're right. And at the same time, no, you're wrong.
But use some common sense too.
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 15 2007, 12:04 PM)
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 15 2007, 06:25 AM)
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 15 2007, 09:14 AM)
In short, Steve...you need to have non-immigrant intent at the POE if coming in on the VWP. If you come in with plans to marry & then do so, you might have to prove how you reasonably severed your ties in the UK whilst not intending on staying when you got married on holiday.
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
The process would be that you'd have to file for AOS after marrying, which includes an interview, and I'm pretty sure the quickie marriage would be broached cos not too many people have severed all ties with their homeland and then got married 'on a whim'.
Not to mention (paranoid side of me here) that your picture is up here, and now since the quezzie's been asked and answered....should you choose to proceed, this actually proves your intent. If USCIS monitors this site (and yes, this might be rare)....you're taking a big risk with your future.
IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze. It's fraudulent, and you might wind up with a 10-year ban. Do you wanna take those chances?
too late to edit, so I'll correct here...not to many adults have the ease to sever all ties so quickly. Leases/mortgages, job, all your personal belongings, tying up everything in the UK...bank accts. personal belongings, etc. I wouldn't be able to say how many have done it successfully or un, but I wouldn't know how to answer these questions if the officer asked me 'where did you live, when did you quit your job, etc' it's all very CSI to me...this can piece together a picture of you planning on emigrating illegally.
WHAT? There's no requirement to sever your ties to your homeland! I've never even seen that implied before.
On the legality side of things, this is how it works:
If you enter on the VWP or a holiday visa that means you are entering - and telling the government that you are entering - for a specific period of time for a specific non-immigrant purpose. If that's not what you're doing, then you're lying to the United State Government.
How much do you think they like that sort of thing?
Legally, however, there is no prohibition, per se, on you falling in love with someone quite out of the blue, or even suddenly deciding to take the leap with your girlfriend, and up and marrying. Just getting married doesn't even post a legal problem.
The potential problems come if you try to stay past the date they told you to leave by when you came in (90 day son the VWP, or whatever you got on a tourist visa, etc). The way to fix that problem is to file your papers to adjust status once you are married (that's the "green card" process). You cannot leave the U.S. after you file those papers and expect to get back in again without either asking for "advanced parole" (meaning advanced permission to re-enter the US), having your green card, or starting with the entire K3 visa process from your home country.
The biggest potential problem, however, as expressed here, is that you must, during the green card process, answer questions related to whether or not you defrauded the government when you entered the United States. Clearly, if you did not INTEND to marry when you came in, then you are okay and did not break any laws. Asking about laws does not necessarily equal INTENT. If you satify the government that you did not commit fraud, then you should be okay since you have complied with United States law and regulation.
HOWEVER, if you cannot prove your non-immigrant intent when you entered (which I would assume you would prove with the same sorts of things you'd use to get a tourist visa: look I still have a mortgage, a job, my parents, a list of connections with my homeland, I certainly didn't PREPARE for this), the penalties can be VERY SEVERE.
As mentioned above, you could be barred from entering the US for a period of years (3, 5, 10) or forever, or lose your VWP privileges (which let me tell you is NO small thing), and you could be removed from the country (deportation) and at the very least, make it very difficult to get through the K3 process easily later.
There are huge consequences if you commit fraud. But only you know what is in your mind and only you know your situation.
You do not need to comment further on either your mind or your situation here. No one here wants or intends to tell you how to skirt the visa process. But you are within your rights to ask about laws and regulations and take this free advice for what it is worth - so long as you understand that none of us here is a lawyer, works for the government, or can tell you for sure what can/will happen to you.
Ya reckon? First of all, you twisted what I said. It's not a USCIS req that you sever ties...but duh...how in the world do people emigrate without severing some ties to their homeland? And if one does sever ties before coming on a VWP, how do you think that looks when attempting to prove there was no intent upon arrival if that was done beforehand?
And ask yourself what's the biggest reason for non-admittance into the US whilst a K visa is pending? NO ADEQUATE PROOF OF TIES TO YOUR HOME. Meaning: live with parents, no job...in short. no reason why they can't pick up and leave.
Honestly, it's common sense. I don't see the issue here.
QUOTE
Pssst - Kez - think before you type man. No one here is going to say "yeah, do it that way" because that would be admitting that you can do it the non-proper way and the terms of service here say that breaking the law is bad. So do morals, the bible, and the US government. Many people who entered on VWP met people after they entered, so they probably didnt' have immigrant intent, so they don't have to worry because they aren't breaking a law. Some people - hell, probably a lot of people - came in on a tourist visa with a wedding dress in their luggage and had no problems later with AOS. But people are going to be very specific and careful with their responses here.
I don't think it is wrong to adjust status after entry on a VWP/tourist visa. But what I think and what the law says are two very, very different things. Hell, I'm jealous if someone can do it that way at this point. But again, my opinion on the matter is worth less than two-cents. A judge at a deportation hearing won't give a sh*t.
We've seen plenty of replies on the board where people say "actually, there was really no headache or problem going through AOS after entry on a non-K visa." But we aren't going to tell people who are premeditating on entering with immigrant intent to do so. This is a public forum and anyone can read it. Don't be like a junior high kid on myspace and think it can't lead to trouble later. Big trouble.
So yes, you're right. And at the same time, no, you're wrong.
But use some common sense too.
I don't think it is wrong to adjust status after entry on a VWP/tourist visa. But what I think and what the law says are two very, very different things. Hell, I'm jealous if someone can do it that way at this point. But again, my opinion on the matter is worth less than two-cents. A judge at a deportation hearing won't give a sh*t.
We've seen plenty of replies on the board where people say "actually, there was really no headache or problem going through AOS after entry on a non-K visa." But we aren't going to tell people who are premeditating on entering with immigrant intent to do so. This is a public forum and anyone can read it. Don't be like a junior high kid on myspace and think it can't lead to trouble later. Big trouble.
So yes, you're right. And at the same time, no, you're wrong.
But use some common sense too.
I do have lots of common sence and your post is saying that you MUST have proof to show the US Government and you will be quizzed about your entry.... and that is bullshit.... you show me where it says that you must have evidence of your ties to your home country or you risk deportation....
If the officer at POE does not ask you any questions.. like are you here to get married or do you intend to return home or do you intend on doing AOS then you have not lied.... I was asked at POE when was your last visit to the USA? then told Thank you have a good trip.... so if I had in the back of my mind that I might stay and get married then how could I have lied??? I was not asked...
At AOS interview my entry to the USA was not even discussed...
No we should not encourage people to break the law but you dont even know if the OP is in the USA or not.... until you do and you know all the facts dont use scare tactics when all someone is doing is asking a question.... and go ask USCIS if its ok to do AOS from a VWP... you will be suprised at there answer...
Kez
Jeez louise - no one on these boards is capable of reading between the lines are they?
I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on. So I related the law as I understand it. We didn't have the good fortune to adjust after a VWP entry, so I don't know from experience. I am sincerely glad it worked for you. And yes, from what I've seen, it works just fine for most people.
But since my fiance got caught once at the border without sufficient ties - I know a bit about the worst case scenario (that's a gross simplification of the situation, but when you break it down, there you go).
My common sense comment was addressed both to you and the OPs who ask these sorts of questions. If any of them read carefully what is being said and take messages accordingly, they can probably end up drawing a conclusion that supports your experience. But I'm not going to tell people to do something wrong. First you have to explain what wrong is - and then it is up to each couple.
I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on. So I related the law as I understand it. We didn't have the good fortune to adjust after a VWP entry, so I don't know from experience. I am sincerely glad it worked for you. And yes, from what I've seen, it works just fine for most people.
But since my fiance got caught once at the border without sufficient ties - I know a bit about the worst case scenario (that's a gross simplification of the situation, but when you break it down, there you go).
My common sense comment was addressed both to you and the OPs who ask these sorts of questions. If any of them read carefully what is being said and take messages accordingly, they can probably end up drawing a conclusion that supports your experience. But I'm not going to tell people to do something wrong. First you have to explain what wrong is - and then it is up to each couple.
My question was a theoretical one, as stated in the topic.
And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!
And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!
QUOTE(SteveUK_BreezyUS @ Mar 15 2007, 04:23 PM)
My question was a theoretical one, as stated in the topic.
And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!
And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!
AHA!!!!! A disclaimer
QUOTE(Buxton babe @ Mar 15 2007, 05:24 PM)
QUOTE(SteveUK_BreezyUS @ Mar 15 2007, 04:23 PM)
My question was a theoretical one, as stated in the topic.
And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!
And i apologise for causing an argument!!!!
AHA!!!!! A disclaimer
Hypotheticals are a totally reasonable learning tool. And this place is about questions and answers - so I say, ask 'em all!
TimsDaisy...it's good that YOU have no problem with it..practially or morally..but this person asked what are the pros and cons. In short, my list? Pros...NONE in this particular case and CONS...only one that matters. You would, yes, indeed be breaking the law by committing fraud. You might be ok with him breaking the law...but I doubt the USCIS will be if they find out. If he had been here on a visit and thought...hey...I wanna get married...well, ok..whatever. Take your chances....no intent. (I feel like I'm going in a circle here since this has been mentioned SO many times already....) since this person has intent to immigrate, there really is no "theoretical"about itand we all realize that a question "Can I do this and get away with it" basically...is being asked here(not..I'm gonna..but...can I?)...so the short answer is yes, you can do it, crapshoot if you get away with it or not. Most people don't want to risk their relationships on a crapshoot is all.
It would be premeditated **in this particular instance**, therefore it would be ILLEGAL. It doesn't matter one whit if any of us are "cool" with it or not..it's illegal!
Not picking at you, btw...at least not meaning to....but this kind of answer is always going to get the response of...only if you wanna risk it! Most people don't have any problem...but in this case, they could hardly answer honestly and have it work (did you intend to immigrate, etc.) so it all comes down to morals/ethics in the end I guess. M.
It would be premeditated **in this particular instance**, therefore it would be ILLEGAL. It doesn't matter one whit if any of us are "cool" with it or not..it's illegal!
Not picking at you, btw...at least not meaning to....but this kind of answer is always going to get the response of...only if you wanna risk it! Most people don't have any problem...but in this case, they could hardly answer honestly and have it work (did you intend to immigrate, etc.) so it all comes down to morals/ethics in the end I guess. M.
Tim,
One complication of the hypothetical scenario you describe is the number of times you have visited your fiancee in the past. An immigration lawyer I met here suggested to us that if we married on the spur of the moment it would be difficult to prove I didn't have immigration intent as I had four visits to my fiance over the two previous years.
He siad it would probable be reasonably simple to adjust status if we had married on the first or second visit, but after that it would get more and more difficult.
Maggie
One complication of the hypothetical scenario you describe is the number of times you have visited your fiancee in the past. An immigration lawyer I met here suggested to us that if we married on the spur of the moment it would be difficult to prove I didn't have immigration intent as I had four visits to my fiance over the two previous years.
He siad it would probable be reasonably simple to adjust status if we had married on the first or second visit, but after that it would get more and more difficult.
Maggie
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 15 2007, 11:48 AM)
I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on.
I dont have a problem with it either. If the OP wants to give it a go knowing that there may be a chance of a problem in the future, that is his choice.
Dont even get me started on "Big Brother"
The real issue here is how sad it is that people are forced to consider ways to trick the system. Why should it take up to a year to bring a US citizens fiance' or Wife back home. Its pathetic!
To the OP:
My husband and I have been married for 18 months-he came here permanently on a CR1. We thought about simply getting married on a VWP and adjusting later, just so we could be together.
But....Before all of this transpired we thought of the legality and the ramifications of such an act-so, we sought legal advice through a consult with a wonderful attorney. We were concerned over "dual intent", him being able to work legally, and him being able to go back to his homeland if God forbid something adverse happened to one of his parents. Many people have come over on the VWP, and while it's not exactly the "right" way to handle things, it worked out for them- but the hassles and red tape may outweigh the benefits for you. Adjusting to the nuances of a new country and the first year of a marriage is stressful enough !
Our attorney recommended the CR1, which my husband and I did not even know existed at the time.
Here is how it works:
Our attorney recommended getting married on the VWP, sending him back to the UK, and going forward with all of the required paperwork.
It was by far the best advice I was given, and I can give you as well. It is the simplest way-once you're done and dusted with your arrival at POE, your green card will come in no time, you will have a SS #, you will be able to work legally, go back to the UK as you please-without any issue, and you won't have to deal with USCIS for some time. And furthermore. when you do have to deal with them again, all you have to do is life the conditions on your residency. As I see it, it is the simplest way, and very legal.
Best of luck to you !
Rose
My husband and I have been married for 18 months-he came here permanently on a CR1. We thought about simply getting married on a VWP and adjusting later, just so we could be together.
But....Before all of this transpired we thought of the legality and the ramifications of such an act-so, we sought legal advice through a consult with a wonderful attorney. We were concerned over "dual intent", him being able to work legally, and him being able to go back to his homeland if God forbid something adverse happened to one of his parents. Many people have come over on the VWP, and while it's not exactly the "right" way to handle things, it worked out for them- but the hassles and red tape may outweigh the benefits for you. Adjusting to the nuances of a new country and the first year of a marriage is stressful enough !
Our attorney recommended the CR1, which my husband and I did not even know existed at the time.
Here is how it works:
Our attorney recommended getting married on the VWP, sending him back to the UK, and going forward with all of the required paperwork.
It was by far the best advice I was given, and I can give you as well. It is the simplest way-once you're done and dusted with your arrival at POE, your green card will come in no time, you will have a SS #, you will be able to work legally, go back to the UK as you please-without any issue, and you won't have to deal with USCIS for some time. And furthermore. when you do have to deal with them again, all you have to do is life the conditions on your residency. As I see it, it is the simplest way, and very legal.
Best of luck to you !
Rose
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 09:09 AM)
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 15 2007, 11:48 AM)
I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on.
I dont have a problem with it either. If the OP wants to give it a go knowing that there may be a chance of a problem in the future, that is his choice.
Dont even get me started on "Big Brother"
The real issue here is how sad it is that people are forced to consider ways to trick the system. Why should it take up to a year to bring a US citizens fiance' or Wife back home. Its pathetic!
How are people forced exactly?
Jeez, the sense of entitlement flyin around lately is just too much for words.
Hmmmm interesting comments from one and all, I called USCIS not so long ago and was actually told to just come on over, in fact the jerk told me all I had to do was ring border patrol and book an appointment with them, date I was going to arrive etc etc the jerk actually gave me the number for border patrol......... Frist I was just astonished at the reply that I got and then I just put the phone down and burst out laughing, then I told my husband, he said honey you get jerks like that even in government jobs.
The OP would be breaking the law if he had intent to marry, do USCIS care, well that is a matter of opinion, people do this sort of thing and get away with it, is it moral? Who are we to judge.
The upshot of it all is a one of choice, we all have choices in this world and if the OP wants to risk everything then it is his choice, surely he is not that much of an idiot?
The OP would be breaking the law if he had intent to marry, do USCIS care, well that is a matter of opinion, people do this sort of thing and get away with it, is it moral? Who are we to judge.
The upshot of it all is a one of choice, we all have choices in this world and if the OP wants to risk everything then it is his choice, surely he is not that much of an idiot?
I can see why, if you're going through the K-1 process from start to finish, that would be such a temptation to do. Still, the government already wants so much proof of validity by doing it the K-1 way, I can only imagine what they'd have to ask if you did it the VWP way.
Logically to me, you can't UNDO intent if you have it, you know? Even though the K-1 process is arguous and requires so much perseverance, at least you've got the reassurance that every piece of evidence you're presenting is 100% on the level. That you don't have to THINK about ways to 'skirt' issues, make up stories, get stories 'straight', etc. If you're looking to do it the VWP way, you've already got the intent to marry when you enter the U.S. I don't think you can mentally undo that and just pretend you did it spontaneously. I might be wrong though, there are crafty folks out there.
I kind of agree with LisaD about the sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I get that way too when these months drag on and I'm like 'I pay my freakin' taxes and did this all the way they told me, how can they treat me this way and get away with it???". I think a lot of us have had those moments. In the end though, I just prefer to do it by the book because I just feel like there's nothing really GOOD in this world that doesn't require some hard-### work. If it's simply a matter of not wanting to wait and go through this, I wouldn't think the risks are worth it in the end, you know?
I don't think it's a bad way to go if it can be done legally, it's just that 'intent' issue and how many risks are involved to a relationship if someone just wants to do it 'faster'. I'd honestly prefer to go through all these months of struggle and sweating it out rather than risk him being barred or denied for a very long period of time. I understand the motivation and desire COMPLETELY, I just couldn't take the risk.
Don't know if that makes me a rule-follwing wuss or what, hehe.
Logically to me, you can't UNDO intent if you have it, you know? Even though the K-1 process is arguous and requires so much perseverance, at least you've got the reassurance that every piece of evidence you're presenting is 100% on the level. That you don't have to THINK about ways to 'skirt' issues, make up stories, get stories 'straight', etc. If you're looking to do it the VWP way, you've already got the intent to marry when you enter the U.S. I don't think you can mentally undo that and just pretend you did it spontaneously. I might be wrong though, there are crafty folks out there.
I kind of agree with LisaD about the sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I get that way too when these months drag on and I'm like 'I pay my freakin' taxes and did this all the way they told me, how can they treat me this way and get away with it???". I think a lot of us have had those moments. In the end though, I just prefer to do it by the book because I just feel like there's nothing really GOOD in this world that doesn't require some hard-### work. If it's simply a matter of not wanting to wait and go through this, I wouldn't think the risks are worth it in the end, you know?
I don't think it's a bad way to go if it can be done legally, it's just that 'intent' issue and how many risks are involved to a relationship if someone just wants to do it 'faster'. I'd honestly prefer to go through all these months of struggle and sweating it out rather than risk him being barred or denied for a very long period of time. I understand the motivation and desire COMPLETELY, I just couldn't take the risk.
Don't know if that makes me a rule-follwing wuss or what, hehe.
QUOTE(arwensun1965 @ Mar 16 2007, 12:28 PM)
Hmmmm interesting comments from one and all, I called USCIS not so long ago and was actually told to just come on over, in fact the jerk told me all I had to do was ring border patrol and book an appointment with them, date I was going to arrive etc etc the jerk actually gave me the number for border patrol......... Frist I was just astonished at the reply that I got and then I just put the phone down and burst out laughing, then I told my husband, he said honey you get jerks like that even in government jobs.
I had a similar thing happen to me with the Embassy in London many months ago. On three separate occasions, we rang and asked if my husband could enter the US on the VWP and then adjust status. We were told twice that we definitely could and should, and the third time the person said they didn't know but didn't see why not. It was only after doing research online and finally emailing a nice attorney who answered my questions gratis that we discovered this would be considered fraud. I'm sure people have done it and gotten away with it, but we weren't willing to take that chance.
QUOTE(TheZilla @ Mar 16 2007, 03:37 PM)
I can see why, if you're going through the K-1 process from start to finish, that would be such a temptation to do. Still, the government already wants so much proof of validity by doing it the K-1 way, I can only imagine what they'd have to ask if you did it the VWP way.
Logically to me, you can't UNDO intent if you have it, you know? Even though the K-1 process is arguous and requires so much perseverance, at least you've got the reassurance that every piece of evidence you're presenting is 100% on the level. That you don't have to THINK about ways to 'skirt' issues, make up stories, get stories 'straight', etc. If you're looking to do it the VWP way, you've already got the intent to marry when you enter the U.S. I don't think you can mentally undo that and just pretend you did it spontaneously. I might be wrong though, there are crafty folks out there.
I kind of agree with LisaD about the sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I get that way too when these months drag on and I'm like 'I pay my freakin' taxes and did this all the way they told me, how can they treat me this way and get away with it???". I think a lot of us have had those moments. In the end though, I just prefer to do it by the book because I just feel like there's nothing really GOOD in this world that doesn't require some hard-### work. If it's simply a matter of not wanting to wait and go through this, I wouldn't think the risks are worth it in the end, you know?
I don't think it's a bad way to go if it can be done legally, it's just that 'intent' issue and how many risks are involved to a relationship if someone just wants to do it 'faster'. I'd honestly prefer to go through all these months of struggle and sweating it out rather than risk him being barred or denied for a very long period of time. I understand the motivation and desire COMPLETELY, I just couldn't take the risk.
Don't know if that makes me a rule-follwing wuss or what, hehe.
Logically to me, you can't UNDO intent if you have it, you know? Even though the K-1 process is arguous and requires so much perseverance, at least you've got the reassurance that every piece of evidence you're presenting is 100% on the level. That you don't have to THINK about ways to 'skirt' issues, make up stories, get stories 'straight', etc. If you're looking to do it the VWP way, you've already got the intent to marry when you enter the U.S. I don't think you can mentally undo that and just pretend you did it spontaneously. I might be wrong though, there are crafty folks out there.
I kind of agree with LisaD about the sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I get that way too when these months drag on and I'm like 'I pay my freakin' taxes and did this all the way they told me, how can they treat me this way and get away with it???". I think a lot of us have had those moments. In the end though, I just prefer to do it by the book because I just feel like there's nothing really GOOD in this world that doesn't require some hard-### work. If it's simply a matter of not wanting to wait and go through this, I wouldn't think the risks are worth it in the end, you know?
I don't think it's a bad way to go if it can be done legally, it's just that 'intent' issue and how many risks are involved to a relationship if someone just wants to do it 'faster'. I'd honestly prefer to go through all these months of struggle and sweating it out rather than risk him being barred or denied for a very long period of time. I understand the motivation and desire COMPLETELY, I just couldn't take the risk.
Don't know if that makes me a rule-follwing wuss or what, hehe.
You're not a wuss
I love taking chances, but I'm certainly not going to take chances with my whole future. It's too important to deviate out of the 'rules' imo.The sense of entitlement thing really aggrivates me because we all need to understand that our fiance(s)s coming here is not a RIGHT. It'll take as long as it takes imo...yes, it's long and it sucks and yadda yadda yadda....but the choice is either follow the rules or don't. No one's forcing anyone to break the law. If one chooses to do so, that is because one has chosen to do so...not because it's 'justified' somehow because of the process.
Yes it sucks. Yes it's long. Yes, it could be more of a logical, simplified process. But it is what it is and at the end of the day, nowt can be done about it.
I agree LisaD. I think SOOOO many people from my generation have that whole 'If I can't get it now, it's NOT FAIR!" thing. I could write a book titled "1,000 Things I Hate About The K-1 VISA Process", but I feel like it's just one of those hard roads you've got to go down in a committed relationship, if you really want it enough. I make the joke that the actual interviews go so fast because what they're REALLY thinking is "Hey, if you people got THIS far after all the crap we put you through, you MUST love each other".
There are so many different motivations for trying to go the VWP route, every situation is different and the K-1 DOES test your limits quite a bit. When I think about the day it's all done though, when this era fades into that story we'll tell our kids about "Wanna hear the crap Mommy and Daddy had to go through to be together?", I know overwhelmingly that I'm alright doing it this way. It's just worth it.
There are so many different motivations for trying to go the VWP route, every situation is different and the K-1 DOES test your limits quite a bit. When I think about the day it's all done though, when this era fades into that story we'll tell our kids about "Wanna hear the crap Mommy and Daddy had to go through to be together?", I know overwhelmingly that I'm alright doing it this way. It's just worth it.
PLEASE TRY TO MAKE A DESTINATION BETWEEN PEOPLE WITH INTENT ENTERING ON A VWP AND PEOPLE WHO ENTERED ON A VWP WITH NO INTENT..... THERE IS A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE... FOR 1 IT IS OK TO DO AOS FOR THE OTHER IT IS NOT.....
Kez
Kez
QUOTE(TheZilla @ Mar 16 2007, 08:13 PM)
I agree LisaD. I think SOOOO many people from my generation have that whole 'If I can't get it now, it's NOT FAIR!" thing. I could write a book titled "1,000 Things I Hate About The K-1 VISA Process", but I feel like it's just one of those hard roads you've got to go down in a committed relationship, if you really want it enough. I make the joke that the actual interviews go so fast because what they're REALLY thinking is "Hey, if you people got THIS far after all the crap we put you through, you MUST love each other".
There are so many different motivations for trying to go the VWP route, every situation is different and the K-1 DOES test your limits quite a bit. When I think about the day it's all done though, when this era fades into that story we'll tell our kids about "Wanna hear the crap Mommy and Daddy had to go through to be together?", I know overwhelmingly that I'm alright doing it this way. It's just worth it.
There are so many different motivations for trying to go the VWP route, every situation is different and the K-1 DOES test your limits quite a bit. When I think about the day it's all done though, when this era fades into that story we'll tell our kids about "Wanna hear the crap Mommy and Daddy had to go through to be together?", I know overwhelmingly that I'm alright doing it this way. It's just worth it.
Yeah, I hear you on that. I think it's good to have a bit of adversity and hard work in life, makes you appreciate the simpler times. When people ask why my fiancée and i dont argue or that, it's because life is too short and our time together is precious. We could never fall into the "sat infront the TV in silence" and we talk everyday, really talk and get to know each other.
When people question / laugh at our relationship, I can take great pleasure in knowing that deep down, I probably know my fiancee better than they know their wife/husband because i have talked to her for HOURS in the last 3 years, more than they will in 10.
My fiancée and I both take turns to freak out over this (one minute i was convinced i'd mythically contracted a disease through the power of being sure something would come up, then she would say "2 months has been a LIFETIME, AAARGH, THIS SUCKS" but deep down we know we'll have the rest of our lives together. When I was out there last time and I proposed, (no plans to on arrival)
I must admit, VJ and it's members have been spot on and first class. I am someone who takes comfort in the counsel of others more experienced, so this has been great.
QUOTE(MichelleandCraig @ Mar 15 2007, 09:47 PM)
TimsDaisy...it's good that YOU have no problem with it..practially or morally..but this person asked what are the pros and cons. In short, my list? Pros...NONE in this particular case and CONS...only one that matters. You would, yes, indeed be breaking the law by committing fraud. You might be ok with him breaking the law...but I doubt the USCIS will be if they find out. If he had been here on a visit and thought...hey...I wanna get married...well, ok..whatever. Take your chances....no intent. (I feel like I'm going in a circle here since this has been mentioned SO many times already....) since this person has intent to immigrate, there really is no "theoretical"about itand we all realize that a question "Can I do this and get away with it" basically...is being asked here(not..I'm gonna..but...can I?)...so the short answer is yes, you can do it, crapshoot if you get away with it or not. Most people don't want to risk their relationships on a crapshoot is all.
It would be premeditated **in this particular instance**, therefore it would be ILLEGAL. It doesn't matter one whit if any of us are "cool" with it or not..it's illegal!
Not picking at you, btw...at least not meaning to....but this kind of answer is always going to get the response of...only if you wanna risk it! Most people don't have any problem...but in this case, they could hardly answer honestly and have it work (did you intend to immigrate, etc.) so it all comes down to morals/ethics in the end I guess. M.
It would be premeditated **in this particular instance**, therefore it would be ILLEGAL. It doesn't matter one whit if any of us are "cool" with it or not..it's illegal!
Not picking at you, btw...at least not meaning to....but this kind of answer is always going to get the response of...only if you wanna risk it! Most people don't have any problem...but in this case, they could hardly answer honestly and have it work (did you intend to immigrate, etc.) so it all comes down to morals/ethics in the end I guess. M.
As was quoted above: QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 15 2007, 11:48 AM)
I'm saying you should be prepared to answer those questions which could be asked. Do I think it is a problem - either practically or morally - no, not in the slightest. I'm fine with it. But again, whatever I'm fine with isn't something anyone should base a decision on.
THAT was my point. That whatever *I* felt about the process is immaterial to the legalities and requirements. I made those comments in response to a poster that said I was talking crazy and using scare tactics to disuade someone from entering on the VWP and then adjusting status.
As for entitlements - I have a lot less trouble with people expressing a sense of entitlement over THIS than I do over artificially low tuition payments at state schools, not having to pay taxes, the right to a $1.50 gallon of gas, etc. . .
The right to marry is recognized as constitutionally guaranteed (let's leave out the creativity with which it has been interpreted with regards to same-sex couples or a variety of other areas - no really, leave it out!). I absolutely feel entitled to a speedy process here. I extra absolutely feel entitled to a process similarly speedy to that enjoyed by our North-Easter brothers and sisters who file through VT.
LisaD is correct that no one is "forced" to break a law, ever. That said, there are numerous instances in all areas of law in which violations are excused or justified based on circumstances. But that's besides the point here. Bottom line: it is possible to enter on the VWP and adjust status. The potential consequences and benefits have been discussed at length.
What the OP does with all the information is between him, his conscience, and, if he's lucky/unlucky, the United States Government. There's not much any of us here can do about it.
Unlike other hot-topic threads - should he enter and adjust, it doesn't have any bearing on my petition or situation. Not even from a P.R. standpoint.
Eek - computer spazzed.
I tried to finish by saying -
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
I tried to finish by saying -
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
QUOTE(Niagaenola @ Mar 16 2007, 04:30 PM)
PLEASE TRY TO MAKE A DESTINATION BETWEEN PEOPLE WITH INTENT ENTERING ON A VWP AND PEOPLE WHO ENTERED ON A VWP WITH NO INTENT..... THERE IS A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE... FOR 1 IT IS OK TO DO AOS FOR THE OTHER IT IS NOT.....
Kez
Kez
I think that's clear in this thread...how many more times must we all type the word 'intent'?
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 16 2007, 08:47 PM)
Eek - computer spazzed.
I tried to finish by saying -
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
I tried to finish by saying -
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
True, it's up to people on a person to person basis. Im the type of person that does things "properly" and "legit".
I know people who WOULD literally do something which i would deem "crazy" but not me. Just dont turn up with the Tux in your suitcase though!
The other flip side is you might not think things are fair, but it's the US government, if they say you cant have your ball back, you arent getting back any time soon.
Just my $0.02
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 16 2007, 03:40 PM)
As for entitlements - I have a lot less trouble with people expressing a sense of entitlement over THIS than I do over artificially low tuition payments at state schools, not having to pay taxes, the right to a $1.50 gallon of gas, etc. . .
The right to marry is recognized as constitutionally guaranteed (let's leave out the creativity with which it has been interpreted with regards to same-sex couples or a variety of other areas - no really, leave it out!). I absolutely feel entitled to a speedy process here. I extra absolutely feel entitled to a process similarly speedy to that enjoyed by our North-Easter brothers and sisters who file through VT.
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
The right to marry is recognized as constitutionally guaranteed (let's leave out the creativity with which it has been interpreted with regards to same-sex couples or a variety of other areas - no really, leave it out!). I absolutely feel entitled to a speedy process here. I extra absolutely feel entitled to a process similarly speedy to that enjoyed by our North-Easter brothers and sisters who file through VT.
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
Thank You for saving me the time to type that out.
The OP is asking a reasonable question. I assumed you should be able to go about immigrating this way. The OP would be coming into the country legally, and the Govt would have his fingerprints and he could AOS as normal. I dont think this is a sense of entitlement. They would be marrying a US citizen to AOS. I dont find that morally bad in any way. Anyone can come to america and not leave. Regardless if they wait 6 monthes or more for a K-1 visa. I made the personal desicion to use the K-1 visa route. I like to play things safe. I think that "My sense of Entitlement" as someone has said is completely normal and how I think the government should be working for us as citizens.
The constitution was written for the people. I think everyone should read it and understand WHY it was written. I could use a refresher myself.
( This post is 100 percent my Opinion and if I offend... Well no harm intended. )
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 06:30 PM)
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 16 2007, 03:40 PM)
As for entitlements - I have a lot less trouble with people expressing a sense of entitlement over THIS than I do over artificially low tuition payments at state schools, not having to pay taxes, the right to a $1.50 gallon of gas, etc. . .
The right to marry is recognized as constitutionally guaranteed (let's leave out the creativity with which it has been interpreted with regards to same-sex couples or a variety of other areas - no really, leave it out!). I absolutely feel entitled to a speedy process here. I extra absolutely feel entitled to a process similarly speedy to that enjoyed by our North-Easter brothers and sisters who file through VT.
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
The right to marry is recognized as constitutionally guaranteed (let's leave out the creativity with which it has been interpreted with regards to same-sex couples or a variety of other areas - no really, leave it out!). I absolutely feel entitled to a speedy process here. I extra absolutely feel entitled to a process similarly speedy to that enjoyed by our North-Easter brothers and sisters who file through VT.
He's still going to comply with the laws here. He won't be stealing American jobs. Doesn't sound like he's moving here for the welfare benefits. He won't be an undocumented worker or illegal alien. Sounds like victimless crime to me.
Again, like I said, my opinion. Which has nothing to do with the laws or anyone's need to follow them.
Thank You for saving me the time to type that out.
The OP is asking a reasonable question. I assumed you should be able to go about immigrating this way. The OP would be coming into the country legally, and the Govt would have his fingerprints and he could AOS as normal. I dont think this is a sense of entitlement. They would be marrying a US citizen to AOS. I dont find that morally bad in any way. Anyone can come to america and not leave. Regardless if they wait 6 monthes or more for a K-1 visa. I made the personal desicion to use the K-1 visa route. I like to play things safe. I think that "My sense of Entitlement" as someone has said is completely normal and how I think the government should be working for us as citizens.
The constitution was written for the people. I think everyone should read it and understand WHY it was written. I could use a refresher myself.
( This post is 100 percent my Opinion and if I offend... Well no harm intended. )
The words 'efficiency' and 'government' rarely go together.
And as I said before, I understand the frustration of being apart...but using gov't red tape to justify 'pushing people to break the law'...well I find that to be a bunch of nonsense & blamestorming for lack of personal responsibility. That's what I meant by entitlement.
Also, your foreign spouse does not have a RIGHT to be here...we have RIGHTS as citizens to petition for their visa, but that doesn't mean we're hiring USCIS to 'work for us' to process things so *we're* happy. You can't request a visa and a side of fries. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.
ETA: Who knows what's going on with the different service centers and why some are faster. One would assume they have either fewer petitions or more people, or who knows what. So if the other centers are lacking, then more funding needs to be in place to bring them up to optimal speed. OH NO, I'M NOT PAYING HIGHER FEES!
I have a plaque over my desk in my office. It says 'I want it all and I want it delivered'.....
I forgot to address the OP at the end of my post. lol
Anyways if its something you want to do. Just take a "holiday" from work. Come over. After your here buy a ticket to Vegas with your fiance'. Dont plan ahead. You wouldnt want to come into the country on a legal VWP and have to lie if they ask you if your getting married. If nothing is set in stone, then nothings 100 percent planned until you do it. Its not something I would risk. Once you piss off the government your SOL.
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not. I think its punishing people who play by the rules, like us. I dont expect everyone to see it like me. I dont expect the government to be effiecient. ( I can dream can't I) I was just commenting on what you said in referance to me. Just wanted to explain myself and where I was coming from.
Anyways if its something you want to do. Just take a "holiday" from work. Come over. After your here buy a ticket to Vegas with your fiance'. Dont plan ahead. You wouldnt want to come into the country on a legal VWP and have to lie if they ask you if your getting married. If nothing is set in stone, then nothings 100 percent planned until you do it. Its not something I would risk. Once you piss off the government your SOL.
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not. I think its punishing people who play by the rules, like us. I dont expect everyone to see it like me. I dont expect the government to be effiecient. ( I can dream can't I) I was just commenting on what you said in referance to me. Just wanted to explain myself and where I was coming from.
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 07:50 PM)
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not. I think its punishing people who play by the rules, like us. I dont expect everyone to see it like me. I dont expect the government to be effiecient. ( I can dream can't I) I was just commenting on what you said in referance to me. Just wanted to explain myself and where I was coming from.
Her coming here is a privilege, not a right. She could be denied at any time. It is up to Immigration whether or not she is denied entry.
Not exactly probable, but being pedantic to prove a point.
But thank you for your response. I may not agree with you, but I appreciate the effort in replying.
Adding: illegal immigration chaps my hide prolly just as much as it chaps yours. But I'm not going to sit here and be all 'hey they did it so what's the big deal'.
Two wrongs and all that jazz.
Two wrongs and all that jazz.
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 16 2007, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 07:50 PM)
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not. I think its punishing people who play by the rules, like us. I dont expect everyone to see it like me. I dont expect the government to be effiecient. ( I can dream can't I) I was just commenting on what you said in referance to me. Just wanted to explain myself and where I was coming from.
Her coming here is a privilege, not a right. She could be denied at any time. It is up to Immigration whether or not she is denied entry.
Not exactly probable, but being pedantic to prove a point.
But thank you for your response. I may not agree with you, but I appreciate the effort in replying.
He he, we can agree to disagree.
I believe a the VWP is a right because as long as you met the qualifying conditions and bring what is needed to prove it, your golden. People just dont come prepared if a officer is suspicious you dont met the VWP or have some other issue. Unfortunetly you get those people behind the counter who are pricks and can find a reason to deny anyone. Who could carry all that proof on them at anytime. We all just hope we dont get that person when we get in line.
Amen to that Dan+Nikki.
My problem is that with family-based immigration - no, check that - with spouse and fiance based immigration, the difference between entering on B2 or VWP and the K1 is really just a matter of semantics. People who come in on the VWP and marry and then adjust status are documented every bit as fast as if they came in on a K1!
Enter on a waiver: you have 90 days to be here legally.
Enter on a K1: you have - look out! - 90 days to be here legally.
At the end of the 90 day period, regardless of HOW you entered, you better have done something to square yourself with the US government - either you leave the country and go home; ask for an extention; or file to adjust status.
So the difference is?. . . .
And "because that's the law" is sort of the correct answer. Then again, more correctly, when it comes to the true purpose of these laws, the better question is whether the underlying public policy is being served by compliance with the letter of the law. For fiance/spouse visa petitioners, the purposes are murkier. Espcially when the end goal, or one of the main goals -the documentation of a foreign citizen's presence in the country - will be accomplished regardless of the method of entry.
The system is a badly patched together, lumbering giant, that frequently crushes the spirits of those who try to comply. I think it sucks. I know most of us do. I just like to acknowledge its suckiness.
My problem is that with family-based immigration - no, check that - with spouse and fiance based immigration, the difference between entering on B2 or VWP and the K1 is really just a matter of semantics. People who come in on the VWP and marry and then adjust status are documented every bit as fast as if they came in on a K1!
Enter on a waiver: you have 90 days to be here legally.
Enter on a K1: you have - look out! - 90 days to be here legally.
At the end of the 90 day period, regardless of HOW you entered, you better have done something to square yourself with the US government - either you leave the country and go home; ask for an extention; or file to adjust status.
So the difference is?. . . .
And "because that's the law" is sort of the correct answer. Then again, more correctly, when it comes to the true purpose of these laws, the better question is whether the underlying public policy is being served by compliance with the letter of the law. For fiance/spouse visa petitioners, the purposes are murkier. Espcially when the end goal, or one of the main goals -the documentation of a foreign citizen's presence in the country - will be accomplished regardless of the method of entry.
The system is a badly patched together, lumbering giant, that frequently crushes the spirits of those who try to comply. I think it sucks. I know most of us do. I just like to acknowledge its suckiness.
My aunt was trying to convince me to do this, because that's what she did and then worked as a paralegal for an immigration attorney. She told me to have my fiance overstay his visa to make to look more legit that he didn't come here with the intent to get married. She said to get married the day after the 90 days expires and then apply for AOS. I couldn't do it though, I'm too paranoid.
Hehe I love it when people who immigrated a few years or more ago talk to you about immigration... I was at a birthday party and this lady sitting next to me heard I was marrying someone from england and then spent the next 10 min how to do it and that the K1 was completely the wrong thing to be doing 
Curious how different it will be in 10-20 years...
Curious how different it will be in 10-20 years...
Hahahahaha! I love this thread.
You know what I'm going to come right out here and say?
If I had it to do ALL OVER AGAIN - I would have married my darling on his second visit and adjusted him. To hell with the K1.
As I see it, once the K1 expires (which it does at some point before permanent residency is completed), the K1 beneficiary has no more rights in this country than any other person applying for adjustment of status based upon a family relationship.
By simply filing the I485 as a family-based petitioner, a 'blanket' is thrown over that petitioner. The CLR is full of categories of behaviors that preclude adjustment of status, followed by the caveat that these behaviors are permissable if the petitioner is married to a USC.
If you enter the country on the K1 and marry within 90 days you have fulfilled the terms of your visa. So if you file for AOS based upon that K1 entry, about all you are showing (IMO) is that you did not violate your visa.
If you adjust from the VWP, what visa are you violating by adjusting? Somebody show me, please.
I'm not advocating 'breaking laws'. I'm saying that I wonder if there is really none to be broken.
Let me end by saying I make my statements based upon our personal experience. My husband is a virtual prisoner in this country - an applicant to adjust status to a government who will not grant him a greencard because it doesn't have the infrastructure in place to complete his security clearance. I don't see that we - personally - could be in a much worse legal position if we had married on the VWP.
You know what I'm going to come right out here and say?
If I had it to do ALL OVER AGAIN - I would have married my darling on his second visit and adjusted him. To hell with the K1.
As I see it, once the K1 expires (which it does at some point before permanent residency is completed), the K1 beneficiary has no more rights in this country than any other person applying for adjustment of status based upon a family relationship.
By simply filing the I485 as a family-based petitioner, a 'blanket' is thrown over that petitioner. The CLR is full of categories of behaviors that preclude adjustment of status, followed by the caveat that these behaviors are permissable if the petitioner is married to a USC.
If you enter the country on the K1 and marry within 90 days you have fulfilled the terms of your visa. So if you file for AOS based upon that K1 entry, about all you are showing (IMO) is that you did not violate your visa.
If you adjust from the VWP, what visa are you violating by adjusting? Somebody show me, please.
I'm not advocating 'breaking laws'. I'm saying that I wonder if there is really none to be broken.
Let me end by saying I make my statements based upon our personal experience. My husband is a virtual prisoner in this country - an applicant to adjust status to a government who will not grant him a greencard because it doesn't have the infrastructure in place to complete his security clearance. I don't see that we - personally - could be in a much worse legal position if we had married on the VWP.
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 16 2007, 03:32 PM)
ETA: Who knows what's going on with the different service centers and why some are faster. One would assume they have either fewer petitions or more people, or who knows what. So if the other centers are lacking, then more funding needs to be in place to bring them up to optimal speed. OH NO, I'M NOT PAYING HIGHER FEES!
Dang. It is so tempting to get into this discussion again, mainly because I think you are all discussing it quite rationally and with some context. Maybe I can add some more.
The VSC vs everyone else puzzle has remained a mystery despite every single petitioner talking about it every day for at least the last 10 years (I'm not kidding). Apparently they have a killer system for handling I-129fs at VSC and there hasn't been a single person who has managed to migrate that system to the other SCs.
The downside to the I-129f efficiency is that VSC has been notoriously slow at everything else it handled. That seems to be improving (and does FA for couples eager to reunite).
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 03:50 PM)
I forgot to address the OP at the end of my post. lol
Anyways if its something you want to do. Just take a "holiday" from work. Come over. After your here buy a ticket to Vegas with your fiance'. Dont plan ahead. You wouldnt want to come into the country on a legal VWP and have to lie if they ask you if your getting married. If nothing is set in stone, then nothings 100 percent planned until you do it. Its not something I would risk. Once you piss off the government your SOL.
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not.
Anyways if its something you want to do. Just take a "holiday" from work. Come over. After your here buy a ticket to Vegas with your fiance'. Dont plan ahead. You wouldnt want to come into the country on a legal VWP and have to lie if they ask you if your getting married. If nothing is set in stone, then nothings 100 percent planned until you do it. Its not something I would risk. Once you piss off the government your SOL.
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not.
This kind of post is the danger of these discussions, however. If you want to know why, go to google and type "clean entry" + udall. Wear your flame retardant suit.
Nikki, you are seriously deluded about the rights of non-USCs and coming to the US tho.
QUOTE(TimsDaisy @ Mar 16 2007, 05:01 PM)
Amen to that Dan+Nikki.
My problem is that with family-based immigration - no, check that - with spouse and fiance based immigration, the difference between entering on B2 or VWP and the K1 is really just a matter of semantics. People who come in on the VWP and marry and then adjust status are documented every bit as fast as if they came in on a K1!
Enter on a waiver: you have 90 days to be here legally.
Enter on a K1: you have - look out! - 90 days to be here legally.
At the end of the 90 day period, regardless of HOW you entered, you better have done something to square yourself with the US government - either you leave the country and go home; ask for an extention; or file to adjust status.
So the difference is?. . . .
And "because that's the law" is sort of the correct answer. Then again, more correctly, when it comes to the true purpose of these laws, the better question is whether the underlying public policy is being served by compliance with the letter of the law. For fiance/spouse visa petitioners, the purposes are murkier. Espcially when the end goal, or one of the main goals -the documentation of a foreign citizen's presence in the country - will be accomplished regardless of the method of entry.
The system is a badly patched together, lumbering giant, that frequently crushes the spirits of those who try to comply. I think it sucks. I know most of us do. I just like to acknowledge its suckiness.
My problem is that with family-based immigration - no, check that - with spouse and fiance based immigration, the difference between entering on B2 or VWP and the K1 is really just a matter of semantics. People who come in on the VWP and marry and then adjust status are documented every bit as fast as if they came in on a K1!
Enter on a waiver: you have 90 days to be here legally.
Enter on a K1: you have - look out! - 90 days to be here legally.
At the end of the 90 day period, regardless of HOW you entered, you better have done something to square yourself with the US government - either you leave the country and go home; ask for an extention; or file to adjust status.
So the difference is?. . . .
And "because that's the law" is sort of the correct answer. Then again, more correctly, when it comes to the true purpose of these laws, the better question is whether the underlying public policy is being served by compliance with the letter of the law. For fiance/spouse visa petitioners, the purposes are murkier. Espcially when the end goal, or one of the main goals -the documentation of a foreign citizen's presence in the country - will be accomplished regardless of the method of entry.
The system is a badly patched together, lumbering giant, that frequently crushes the spirits of those who try to comply. I think it sucks. I know most of us do. I just like to acknowledge its suckiness.
You might be especially interested in researching the history of the K-1, TD--maybe you can make sense of what went wrong.
Want to know what the difference was meant to be? K-1s are vetted outside the US before entry. They have done everything that an Immigrant Visa applicant has done *except* marry their USC petitioner. The K-1 was created when there weren't a lot of international relationships--the world has changed way too quickly.
The K-1 would go thru their visa application & security checks, come to the US, get married and take their marriage certificate down to the local office and have their PR status approved virtually on the spot. THAT is how it should work.
Making K-1s go thru an entire AOS application (except for the I-130, o thank you for small favors!) is a rip off, and I would love to know how it got so sidetracked. The DORA program has proved itself to be a huge success, and yet it has only been expanded to two other offices (it mimics the old K adjustment).
If you want to read more on it, google Folinskyinla on the topic; he has provided a lot of background and explanation and his words would point you to the right sources.
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 08:01 PM)
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 16 2007, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE(Dan+Nikki @ Mar 16 2007, 07:50 PM)
and yes LisaD my fiancee does have the right to be here under the VWP. Your also right I dont like waiting. I dont think we should have to when anyone can come to the country legally or not. I think its punishing people who play by the rules, like us. I dont expect everyone to see it like me. I dont expect the government to be effiecient. ( I can dream can't I) I was just commenting on what you said in referance to me. Just wanted to explain myself and where I was coming from.
Her coming here is a privilege, not a right. She could be denied at any time. It is up to Immigration whether or not she is denied entry.
Not exactly probable, but being pedantic to prove a point.
But thank you for your response. I may not agree with you, but I appreciate the effort in replying.
He he, we can agree to disagree.
I believe a the VWP is a right because as long as you met the qualifying conditions and bring what is needed to prove it, your golden. People just dont come prepared if a officer is suspicious you dont met the VWP or have some other issue. Unfortunetly you get those people behind the counter who are pricks and can find a reason to deny anyone. Who could carry all that proof on them at anytime. We all just hope we dont get that person when we get in line.
But you're technically wrong because it it NOT a right. Go do some research.
I went into the UK on the VWP for 6 mos (their limit). I had proof of onward passage (my return ticket), I had verification of my bank account funds (cos that's a long time to stay with no job), I had my health insurance card with a printed list from my company of where I could get covered treatment should I get sick whilst on hols (which shows I'm not there to get the NHS) and many other pieces of evidence.
I was detained for 9 hours and almost deported.
Was it 'MY RIGHT' to be allowed entry into a foreign country? No, it wasn't. If British officials had decided to send me home, there's absolutely nowt I could have done about it.
You seriously need to research the difference between 'rights' and 'privileges'
QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Mar 16 2007, 07:00 PM)
I don't see that we - personally - could be in a much worse legal position if we had married on the VWP.
oops, last word, sorry!
I thought VWP AOS was how we were *supposed* to do it! I'm glad I did my research, but still....
The only reason I threw that idea out was learning about Advance Parole. We couldn't have him unable to travel for even one day. This was before the items I quoted above and all this 'crime in your heart' school of thought. As you've seen, there are plenty of CIS workers and State workers who think that is a legitimate way to immigrate.. especially from a VWP country.
bah. We must've been under a lucky star..
QUOTE(meauxna @ Mar 16 2007, 11:27 PM)
The DORA program has proved itself to be a huge success, and yet it has only been expanded to two other offices (it mimics the old K adjustment).
If you want to read more on it, google Folinskyinla on the topic; he has provided a lot of background and explanation and his words would point you to the right sources.
If you want to read more on it, google Folinskyinla on the topic; he has provided a lot of background and explanation and his words would point you to the right sources.
Mo, I'm waiting for it to come to Florida. FLORA has a nice ring to it, no?
QUOTE(LisaD @ Mar 16 2007, 07:32 PM)
QUOTE(meauxna @ Mar 16 2007, 11:27 PM)
The DORA program has proved itself to be a huge success, and yet it has only been expanded to two other offices (it mimics the old K adjustment).
If you want to read more on it, google Folinskyinla on the topic; he has provided a lot of background and explanation and his words would point you to the right sources.
If you want to read more on it, google Folinskyinla on the topic; he has provided a lot of background and explanation and his words would point you to the right sources.
Mo, I'm waiting for it to come to Florida. FLORA has a nice ring to it, no?
haha.. well, since they name 'em for the office, wouldn't you have MORA & the even better TORA?!
FLORA's better tho.. cover the whole state! And speaking of.. Shoot girl, when *are* you going to make an honest man out of this pretend boyfriend? I'm starting to wonder if he isn't a figment... I mean, even TracyTN finally got off the stick! <g>
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