I don't know if it's pertinent to add/or developp something about this topic. Since a few days that i'm more often on here it happened that from some stories of difficult situations either in the couple's relationship (i.e. failing) or other, in this immigration process, have been brought to my attention.

For those knowlegeable with all forms of violence or abuse, i ask this, because as we know it's a taboo thing to talk about,...especially for victims who can not, do not know or are in fear to speak. And if we can think for example to the IMBRA stuff, or on the other hand, petitioners who have been abused, i wonder if this taboo (i.e. what the child lives in disturbed family situations) can be discussed...at least try to. I have a couple of examples in mind if needed...
Any thoughts?

who said it was tabo to talk about abuse??? and why do you assume that if a marriage is failing then there has to be some form of abuse and where does a child fit into this???

Kez

Thanks for your input but i'm only interested in those who want to talk about it, not those who don't want to!

I never said I did not want to talk about it.... I was talking about it... I asked you some questions... is that not what you want?


Kez

Your "questions" are not really questions, but more like an attack on what knowledge said. Why would she try to dialogue with someone who only wants to tell her she is wrong, when she did not say anything wrong? She wants to talk to someone with experience and knowledge of patterns of abuse and how they are affected by this process.

wow
this thread took only 4 posts til it turned into a fight.

VJ, Do we have a record?

Hahaha...thanks Bigfoot!!! can i have some popcorns too??...Seriously, i don't think it's a fight.....but a sign that it's a taboo subject...lol...vampirizing is then the rule obviously...instead of thinking...and, one can not do both in the same time...

So, let's see, if possible...for example..if we talk so much about the rules on here, the law, etc...as it's a family site in which thread treats about relationships that do not work, sadly, why did we "omitt" them ....what about the kids, if they are, who witness those difficult changes...what's the help can get the parent-s, what is possible to do...what's possible to repair...Of course, i ask to those who are knowledgeable, in experience and or more...and why not, from a philosophical, legal, psychological point of view...If both partners have rights in this process...what are the rights of the kids?...How their rights can be included in the separation, divorce, etc...
One thing i like sometimes to remember are the words of Mandela in one of his last interviews as of what heritage he would like to let us...his answer: Take care of the kids...With all this violence in the world to say the least...and, of any kind and many forms, with the depression growing dangereously among us...with this soo hard process where we are haunted by all types of feelings...can we, have we still have a place in our minds to be open, to think a little bit what we say and what we do...and ultimately what we teach and how to protect our kids...

Should I give examples here of such difficult situations where kids are involved also...i don't think so...but, i honestly can say that i have been affected myself on here by some stories...tragedies...and was thinking omg..but where and how are the kids in all this...how parents cope...how do they go get help?...or not maybe...So, just some thoughts...Anyone?

I dont understand what you are trying to attain from this topic,

just because the relationship falls apart, doesnt necessary mean abuse is a factor. If a spouse or child is abused in any way, law enforcement should and must be notified. ESPECIALLY if the child is abused. It is irresponsible and negligent to not report abuse of a child. IMO, people who post on an immigration public forum about physical abuse to themselves or children and have not reported it to law enforcement when it occured , are bogus claims, and they are just fishing for a sure thing to stay in the states.

If you are referring to emotional stress attained from parents splitting up, well then this is no taboo, this is America. Its rare to see a kid whos parents are still together.

Great input Matt and i appreciate how good you articulate. If I may, and follow the direction of your thoughts, I would add that not only in America parents splitt, everywhere too, but that's ok, because the families get re-composed. It's what's happening after...that the complications might begin...2 parents, with kids that are not their own, the adjustements to make, etc...the guilt, the fear to loose the partner on the benefice of the kids, and so on...all around me are examples like that...Fortunately i think that the majority are sensed and attentive to the wellbeing of their kids...

If a "relationship fells appart" there is an attention to be brought to the kid, because also the attachemnt the kid developped is felt as broken too...Why can the kid not feel the dammaged relationship, or every tension is going on there...????....We can not separate things like that...There are dynamics...And i'm saying that in the sens of support and help a parent for ex who is overwhelmed.

Unfortunately, the examples i have witnessed (thanks god, few ones on here) but quite dramatic, i didn't see any interest, any desire to go get help, only so superficially....As you said, if some here come to complain, when their situation is quite dramatic in itself, i agree that the majority takes the stuff on the surface, and in the real life they don't do much...
Overall, my point is that i have seen here comments related to the lack of responsability towards the child, or the child to come...At least when the individual is not mature, has not to make kids in tensed situations...
And i don't point to call the police either, only maybe if the suspicion is quite high...I don't believe in fear, i believe in talking and thinking....and developping ideas..which can not be developped in fear...Unfortunately some of those people disappeared after throing here their serious problem....

In any case...examples are many...I was appaled by many's reactions on this topic, the resistance to see, or the willing to see and understand, the attacks that only reveil the guilt (maybe because their own personal issues not resolved)...and obviously, too few spoke up truly...There is a desequilibre here...

So, that's also why i'll come on here less...i'm a bit affected...Internet can not allow anymore aggressions..or .liying about the subject, then dissapearing...We also know that Internet is a place for how many lonely kids...and it's dangers...

I only wanted to point that we should be more careful to the wellbeing of the kids in the complicated situations of immigration also...

I think Bigfoot and Knowledge are the same person.

This thread hurts my brain.

wtf is with all these newbs? Kezzie answered in a perfectly acceptable fashion and her questions were relevant.

There should be a group discount for hooked on phonics



I do too

Here's my recap of the thread:

OP: Garble garble let's break the silence about broken families! TABOO?!!! GarBLE!!! GARBLE!!

Kezzie: I'm not sure there's a taboo?

OP: I AM APPALLED BY YOUR REACTION I WILL LEAVE THIS PLACE AND FIND A FORUM THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT CHILD ABUSE GOOD DAY SIRS!

lol, yep

I am glad I am not the only one confused by the reactions of the OP....

Kez

let alone the structure of the OP itself...I think there's a point in there somewhere

Not sure how I missed this one on a boring day at work. Great way to get someone to agree with you, and even better that they are the only one making sense of the garble!

Yeh.... I think they call that the first sign of madness.... talking to yourself and getting an answer....

Kez

You wouldn't believe how often that happens on some of the forums I have frequented in the past. OP gets told he/she is talking rubbish and suddenly, miraculously, someone else appears and on their FIRST POST of the forum decide to stick up for the OP AND agrees with everything they say.

Some people think others' are so stoopid...

I didn't get that from her post. Maybe you misread it?

Nah it wasn't misread, you probably haven't read the other thread this one is referring to.

I feel stoopid, because not sure why this persons schtuff showed up when they are iggied. It is all better now though.

Wrong, not the same person and all I said was knowledge was attacked. Also not very nice, especially to a "newbie". FYI, the OP was trying to get away from a fight by opening this post to talk about something. Another discussion had gotten to the point where nothing was being accomplished. The first answer to the OP was by someone who was not happy in the previous thread. Then the other person who was going to ignore knowledge in the other thread joined this thread to offer more negativity. It is all too easy to say something about newbies, but you also know nothing about me. Sorry to disappoint you but I really do not wish to spend my time arguing with anyone, it was just too obvious that the enmity from the previous discussion was about to carry over here, and it did. I also try to avoid denigration, which apparently is an attitude in short supply here.

Kez answered as follows: "who said it was tabo to talk about abuse??? and why do you assume that if a marriage is failing then there has to be some form of abuse and where does a child fit into this???

The OP was talking about a general taboo regarding discussions of how children are affected by all forms of violence or abuse, and what effect the immigration process might have on this. A dialogue was requested, and I again say all she got was an attack. Then the thread deteriorated into what it now is. Sad. And not much of an introduction for a "newbie". Although I did really like the popcorn smiley, perhaps the first one I ever did enjoy enough to want to use.

The reactions of some of the people who have replied should give knowledge some insight into how taboo the subject really is. Anger usually masks another emotion, quite often fear. Seems like the question hit a nerve, so the reaction is either get angry or use silly put downs to make the subject more palatable.

I was hoping that this medium would be helpful, instead I am watching people use putdowns and sarcasm to ruin the thread. Is there anyone who can actually talk to knowledge about her topic? Does anyone here know why IMBRA exists?

blah blah blah, since when is it law to be 'nice'....especially to noobs?

Did I miss a memo?


Btw, whoever you are....try a lil reading comprehension to what Kezzie actually said there before ya go flyin off on some tangent that's irrelevant.

Wow! For those that referred to knowledge's post as 'garbled', how about trying this discussion in a language that is not your first? Tsk, tsk.

I find this topic interesting.. and yes i've read the other tread - but I dont think it's all related and that it's a taboo.. this things happen and how children effect from this rollercoster is something to think about... (aboues either physicly or emotionally)

I have no answer though... but i'm sure children will effect from broken relationship too... But I think the best thing you can do in the situation is talk to the children about what's going on and ensure that they will not be left out on what ever outcome will be..

Thanks, my english is not so good sometimes, so i'll try to be more clear: I meant that here on this site is taboo...from what i have read...to a point that the dramatic situations revealed here...were preoccupying and reflected more the interests of the adults...and not those of the kids...For the rest, you exactly understood what i was trying to say...also the fact that because we have no answser, tried to see if it's possible to to talk about...
My preoccupation still remains in regards with your statement to the fact they should "not be left out", as you put it so well...it's the chore of my concern...because this is abandonement...especially if the child is young...and for a long duration of time...In addition to the difficult process...if it lasts also, this is to me another addition to think more what a kid can bear to take...If it's too much for us, imagine for the kid...this is still not mentionned overall on here...Then, you answered...talking to the kid..yesssss.....thus, another question to debate maybe...: how to talk to the kid about the situation...

I did not attack you I asked you to expand on your question by asking you a question... as far as I can see it was not being nasty or attacking you...

Kez

umm.. I dont know what to do becasue i've never been in that situation myself but have seen families that kids got effect by parents behavior...
I feel that sometimes kids though that it was their fault that their parents didnt get along and in the situation that it's their step dad or step mom fighting with their mom or dad... May be the conversation to the kids can be like - sorry this happen, why it happen, it's nobody fault especially not the kids fault, how's the future will be, asking for opinion...etc....

for what i mean "not be left out" actually means that they are inform of what's going on in their family (not abandon the child to somone else)

I remember when my parents had a fight, my mom would come to me later and explain what happen , why it happen and that she still love my dad very much and he's a good man but sometimes their opinion is different.. and that's what I think it's a good way to talk to the kids..

I've seen family that while the dad is deciplin the girl the mohter just came out and defend the girl and disregard everything the dad said and make him looks stupid.. and the girl have no respect for their parents especially ther dad.

and sorry my english is not good - tried my best to explain but it seems to go every where hope u understand though

Yes, exactly, your english is very knowledgeable ...i have to run, i'll come back later to answer!

I think your English is quite nice & can rival any native-English speaker.

What is your primary language?

Finally someone read the original question, understood it, and is dialoguing. Thanks Anya.

I know we CAN/MAY(whatever) talk about whatever we want on any thread, etc etc. (before that gets brought up!) but I was just wondering (as soon as I read the first post) why we have to have discussions about abuse on an immigration message board....only because...it's not like a member has come and posted that they are being/have been abused etc.... why the "obsession" (for lack of a better word coming to mind at moment) with abuse?? In Laura's thread it was brought up instantly because she was having trouble (as most know who are posting here) and then now a separate post for it?

I understand if someone were to be having issues, but why are we even discussing it right now? boredom? (ok then...I get that I guess..?) Dunno..guess I just don't see why you're so focused on it.... M.

Laura's thread was riddled with spousal and child abuse allegations FROM the OP of this very thread.

Ridiculous!

The OP has pointed out they have done studies on this, so maybe they are proud of what they have learned. This is all fine and dandy, but taking what she/he knows or thinks they know and attempting to apply it to every situation is............."Ridiculous"! This is like a podiatrist suggesting a person with a cough must have foot fungus.

I believe Laura came back and responded in her thread (that this one seems to be related to) and clarified the accusations were false and un-called for.

Yes she did...after the OP took the old 'my foreign spouse is having troubles adjusting' problem and used it to cast aspersions on Ian's character...repeatedly saying he was an abuser.

Completely uncool.

And now lookit how OP wigged out on Kezzie when K just asked simple questions and stated that she didn't think anything was taboo....methinks the OP is wanting some sort of sinister clandestine issue to 'unveil'...but just like Geraldo unearthing Al Capone's vault, it's turned into much ado about nothing.

I watched too much Nanny 911 and heard too many bad stories from my fellow aupairs but i dont know why on immigration forum either though.. but i answer anyway

knowledge, you know we've chatted here before, but I do not understand your question as it was first put. I actually don't understand what the question is right now. That is not an attack. That is me saying I had a hard time understanding what your question is/was also.

In general, my requests:

If you're (all) going to have a thread about another thread, link to that thread so everyone knows what you're talking about.

If you (all) have a problem with the moral behavior of someone from VJ, in real life, send them a personal message or email; do not dance around and make comments about others out in public, lobbying for support.

Finally, for your (all) own sanity and that of others, why not try to refrain from having moralistic discussions on VJ; you're sure to offend SOMEone otherwise***. How about sticking to FACT based discussions of US family immmigration?
For discussions about the impact of blended families on children, I recommend www.DrLaura.com



***diclaimer: I have had moralistic discussions on VJ in the past. Not as pure as the driven snow, here.

Hey...I'm not quite sure what ya meant...but that's basically exactly what I was saying in a much more round about way....I was just wondering...why all the obsession with (speaking about the OP) someone being abused all of sudden when there's been no indication of that from anyone??? (at least not anyone on this board unless maybe in this particular forum and then they've come right out and said so,not beat around the bush about it!) Yeah..I remember Laura's thread and the OP's comments...that, too, is exactly what I was getting at. The assumption that she must be being abused is just as ridiculous as starting a thread about it here...and whether we think it's TABOO or not?? What the heck does that mean? What we think about it? Ummmmm...*scratches head* Yeah...probably think it's not good. I mean, I dunno...I just didn't get it. Anyway, whatever..doesn't matter much. M.

just piggybacking your thought to post my disgust at what happened in the other thread, Michelle...don't get yer panties in a knot

Errrrm.......yeah, ok then.

*quickly sneaks a look about, unknots panties, and hopes nobody notices*

Meauxna, i have no problem to explain to you..1st, i agree to all your rules of posting...but they are ideal, and it's not what's happening...if there is no moderator, ...so, once they are put in public here are my thoughts.: i could not explain, because if reading all the coments which were negative, as a sensitive subject, was not possible to do so. But, if you read that thread carefully, i have asked a question, repeeatedly...not imagining stuff....I was not the only one to be suspicious, if my question-s were so, and, i believe that:

if somebody puts a worried thread on here, we, as citizens in good faith, have the right to question...
I strongly belive that people have to think what they are writing on here and, if the situation is difficult, stop venting...and or, take the consequences of their words...and come and answer the questions, instead of dissapearing. As many have brought that thread on here, which i have not (and i'll explain here exactly why.). ...i still when i read it few days ago...did not have answer to my question...so, be it. But, i have noticed, that all of a sudden, and after all that...was mentioned there that the situation got so wonderful and perfect...so fast...hm!!!...strange, when the OP mentionned that that went on for quite some time...

To explain my parenthesis here...this thread is NOT about people, but about situations..about cases.(so, in my opinion, i have not brought that thread here, they have brought it here with personal names, etc...I wonder, actually that this point is brought so much on here, if these people are real professionals...as they overall on here let it know.....i seriously doubt: once in the work place somebody, in a conflict, attacks personally, is not at ALL professional...)...this for me is called, from a methodoligical point, ethics of relationship. Do we have split personalities, on here and in real, professional life?...if it doesn't flatter the ego?...seducing with siroupy words...Hm! hm!

Now, some examples that preoccupied me before the hysteria nation took it's wonderful, tribal position lol...:


24 months to be absent to young kids...and then, being sooo busy with work, again, implying that again, the time with the kids has not been spent...(can anyone do the maths of how long those kids did not spent with their mother???) it's in my opinion, something to point ...But, It's not my responsability anymore, if, people do not want to talk about this exact point, brought on here, NOT by me, but by an overwhelemed mother...It's one thing to point out, another to attack..as many many have done here, and, strangegly they have kids...denied the point, posted stuff to make those few who pointed it to shut up...Very interesting behaviour...what's the name of it?


Other situations (that was not the only one, maybe the one that put the last straw on because before that thread, i was quite disturbed by some other situations involving kids, and i must add, one after the other): a lady, again very worried, wrote on here: pregnant by a gent who got his GC; that gent came here on a petition (which type?, was he involved whith another lady, while he was putting another one (the one who posted worried) pregnant?...The only interest in that post was that the gent put on his GC application that he was "single"...so, involved with 1 lady (not official) and maybe another one, but still he worte "single"...Officially this is wrong, right?..But, my point is psychologically: is a child to be born on this foundation? : a big lie...putting in trouble that pregnant lady and who know who else..including himself...
Third situation: a lost soul on here since months...saying he was illegal...overstaying, whatever, now, willing to marry a lady on welfare with kids..(2, 3?? each from maybe different fathers)...his question was: would she have the enough money to be the sponsor?...overall all his posts were so confusing and contradictiory...and going on and on...Then again, just advice of what to do has been given on here by really serious and articulate people months ago, he didn't do nothing about it..and, came back with the same question...Ok, this is adult games...but again...it's shocking...nobody was saying anything about those kids..involved in such crazy situations...Remember, we here, on this site, read a lot of sensitive and difficult situations...I have the right to be shocked, disturbed, and say it...Those people who come and vent forget that, some of us who truly want to help, read a lot of this type of stuff...i was wrong...Internet has a diseaze, we know it by now...and imagine in addition on this type of site..

I really have enough to explain myself on here...many have also left this site because of immaturity and multiplications of questions that make no more sens...what is that my point related to the kids...is so crazy??...i doubt it...and i have not to explain myself anymore...i know what i'm saying...even if i'.m not so good in english...!!!...and that is consistent...

I know we, as humans, are not perfect...but at least, we can take a bit of time in this crazy world, to think about our words, and be more responsible..instead of playing ego games...with these types of subjects...just because we can not fix stuff in the real life...We can not change the world, but we can change little things...even if what is said, we do not agree all the time...I'm not so used with internet stuff, i just wanted to see if some deep stuff can be developped, obviously not...people need to regress and Internet is the place...so i learned in this process...we certainly on here can not grow up...and make obstacles to those who try to say something important...all attaking or authorize to say others to shut up...on a few...seems to me we are still on here at a tribal state of mind...

AnyaD, thanks for your genuine input...and ideal work with kids...my point was mostly related to how people come on here to bring their problems, as only obviously to vent, but not really solve..if the issue is more serious...

For those who denied that abuses might take place everywhere, i strongly believe that if I decided to bring on here this subject, isjustly because that word was mentionned on this thread...if you care to read the title...

I let you with those words, not hoping you'll want to understand anything: from a book, a chapter titled: "Juliette or Enlightement and Morality" which ends with these words: "Where do your greatest dangers lie? was the question Nietzsche once posed himself, and answered thus: "In compassion". With this denial he redeemed the unshakable confidence in man that is constantly betrayed by every form of assurance that seeks only to console".

I believe that the betrayal in all these denials , is not to betray the other, vulnerable, etc., is ourselves we betray, in what is a child in ourself, what is our feminity, poesy in ourselves...to be able to really console ourselves...As adults, we truly run away from ourselves...
BTW, this excerpt is from a book whose title goes like this: "Excremential culture"...

A kid has to be more respected than anything else nowdays...and, certainly I have no problem to stick to whatever word i have written on here...and, if i touched, at least 1 person, this is ALL that counts to me...and not thinking i have truly waste my time on here...as i have certainly more constructive stuff to do...and also learned a lot form this thread

Cheers, and have a good day!

Michelle, this is for you...i have just googled 1 minute on this topic...and here is what i have found....and for those curious:

www.urban.org/toolkit/issues/immigration.cfm : Urban Institute: a non partizan economic and social policy research organization, 25 years of "Immigration studies", including integration of immigrant families and children...

That site also referes to many articles, among which: "The health and well-being of children in Immigrant Families"....maybe it will be also useful to Mermaid, who, btw, articulated a fabulous informative thread on here...that has to be underlined...

So, i have nothing else to say on this topic, info exists in aboundance....and i'm not going to repeat stuff to those who do not want to talk about...

What is the reason behind this thread??? why did you choose to make this topic your quest in life??

Kez

...And WHY are you directing your info at *me*??? FYI, I neither need it nor want it. I asked what the *purpose* of the thread was, not for information about it. If I wanted it, I am perfectly capable of using search engines on my own. But thank you. M.