ahhh... the atheist card had to come out

ETA: Meanwhile, Christians, Muslims, Atheists and non-denominationals have all expressed similar sentiments about the discussion.

You're the one who trotted out what God thought and said about sex. And, this atheist has read the good book a few times, as you well know, it's really not hard to figure out what God had in mind.

But we can skip that if you like and move on to MENA culture and the un-acceptability of talking about sex, sex toys, and masturbation with virtual strangers and men who aren't your husband.

Since when is the internet MENA culture?

As I said before, God talks about sex in public. I see no problem with it.

Since when is the internet MENA culture?

As I said before, God talks about sex in public. I see no problem with it.

I have stated my position. I see no problem with saying one has a sex toy on the net. Your indignation is not a problem because this is a moan and groan thread, and you apparently have found something to moan and groan about.

What is the difference between masturbation hedonism and an engaged couple having sex outside of marriage hedonism? Aren't both for pleasure?

And so that leaves the question of joking about sexual things with a man who is not your husband. I'd love to hear what God said about that. Barring a statement from God, maybe one from a MENA husband would suffice.

Are you a man?

Then, that settles that.

Peezey, you don't give a crap about God, so don't try to cover yourself with the cloak of religious demeanor. It doesn't even make sense.

In summery:

My mom Used my bank account while I was in Jordan to pay for car payments.

My daughter was suppose to pay my bills for me but didnt so I am behind three months.

I gave my daughter all my extra money to pay her bills.

I dont have a job yet so no money comming in but child support.

My daughter moved in with me 18, her husband and baby too. All in a three bedroom small house.

I was pregnant that is why I came back to the USA from Jordan.

I lost the baby.

My mom tried to take me to court to get custody of my children as she didnt want me to take them to Jordan.
Since she lost that, she got intouch with my bipolar ex husband and tried to get him to take me to court (he who has supervised visitations and he hasnt seen the girls in a year or so)

I have interviewd and tested for ONE job four times and have to go in tomorrow and monday for final tests and interview.

I dont have a car but I did buy my daughter a car before I left, but someone smashed out her window and she doesnt have insurance on it...

I have a 13 yr old with a attitude from hades. She is a red head so should I say more?

I have a 11 yr old who cried because she had to take pubic busses to school and she was terrified to go alone.

I have shut off notices from Electric and Gas and the phone charge to start phone service is 300.00. but you have to have a phone to get a job right?

I had the flu, then pneumonia.

I am now on antidepressants but I cant sleep from them

My best friend brought me groceries and gave me 100.00

My husbands bil died and he has to take care of his sister and her three kids on top of another divorced sister and a sister who has cerebral palsy. He is working so much

DH had a heart attack due to stress and highblood pressure.

My house needs a good cleaning and with three girls living here well four with me, it should be spotless. I cant do it all!

I have a yeast infection...sigh!

I miss my husband

But hang in there!!!!!!!!!!

I give lots of crap about God.

CRAP being the operative word.

As far as the strangeness of this goes, I have two women who publically defend and support bumpin uglies outside of marriage arguing with me about the permissibility of mentioning a sex toy on the Internet.

Talk about hypocrisy!

Well, at least get this straight. I told you I don't know much about translations because I and the folks I deal with read the Quran in Arabic. I gave you a couple of suggestions based on what I have been told by others, and I felt bad that I couldn't do more. So, don't try to give others the impression that I gave you a "big list". I did not. That would be a big lie.

I give lots of crap about God.

CRAP being the operative word.

As far as the strangeness of this goes, I have two women who publically defend and support bumpin uglies outside of marriage arguing with me about the permissibility of mentioning a sex toy on the Internet.

Talk about hypocrisy!

me: szsz, can you give a good recommendation on qu'ran translations?
szsz: sure....here's a big list of them

Well, at least get this straight. I told you I don't know much about translations because I and the folks I deal with read the Quran in Arabic. I gave you a couple of suggestions based on what I have been told by others, and I felt bad that I couldn't do more. So, don't try to give others the impression that I gave you a "big list". I did not. That would be a big lie.

You can keep trying to say the question is about talking about a sex toy on the "internet" but I have never asked that question. I have asked about married women talking about sex toys with a married man who is not their husband.

I say what I mean and what I believe, a line you often use. You pronounce and announce what you think is right and wrong all over this board. There is no hypocrisy in asking how it is you rectify what you've previously said with what you've done today.

Hilarious. Let's say you gave me zero suggestions because you didn't know of any because you had to ask around because you read the Quran in Arabic. Your answer still wasn't "You don't give a crap about God!"

But keep trying with deflecting from the points being made.

You and I both pronounce what we think is right and wrong all over this board, peezey. What have I previously said that would not allow me to mention a sex toy n public? I'm not advocating fornication nor am I engaging in it. I'm not a sexual segregationist. I said God talks about sex in public, so what's wrong with it?

So far, I see nothing wrong that I've said that requires further explanation nor justification. You want me to believe you're suddenly a prude and seeking to uphold the law of God on this board. You make me laugh!

You are an atheist. Atheists by definition don't believe in God, nor do they care what He thinks. You defined yourself, not I.

What does my answer to you about translations of the Quran have to do with this?

Apples and oranges. If you believe that fornication is ok, then you will see no difference.

Still, it is an accepted fact that hedonism is a biological imperative. Gary correctly stated, it is the same thing as human biology. Hedonism is the opposite of philosophy and the cultural developmental mode. I am arguing for the advancement of philosophy and cultural development over the base instincts that define human biology aka hedonism. It is biology that supports the consumerist, secular, hedonist imperative behind the need for instant gratification and impulsiveness that you advocate.

Deflection again. I'm doing no such thing. I'm asking how it is the women on this board espouse one thing and do another.

You are an atheist. Atheists by definition don't believe in God, nor do they care what He thinks. You defined yourself, not I.

What does my answer to you about translations of the Quran have to do with this?

I labeled myself, I never defined myself to you.

Your answer about my questions today are relevant based on your answer in the past. I know you are purposefully being obtuse but it's not working.

You wrote before
This is your own definition of hedonism. How does masturbation not fall into a biological imperative and instant gratification category? Apples and oranges, really?

You mention MENA, but MENA customs and Islam are not synonymous. God talks about sex in public; he directed His Prophet to lead the men and the women away from shyness on the subject. Islam is not shy about sex, although many Arabs are. I take His lead, not theirs.

Regardless of what Islam says about sex or masturbating and dildos, don't you think its disrespectful to discuss such personal things with people you don't know? Don't you think your husband or the husband of those who shared this info would be bothered by this? I don't think you need to be an Arab or Muslim to think this discussion in inappropriate.

The other thing is some of the women (not all) who have posted in this thread about their sex toys have often made comments about how modest they are and then turn around and describe their sex toys on a public forum.

It is not my personal definition of hedonism. It is a sociological definition of hedonism.

That statement was made in the context of a discussion about pre-marital sex. The Quran forbids pre-marital sex. It doesn't say "well, it's ok if you're engaged. It does not forbid mastarbation, especially for women, for they spill no seed when doing so, and that is the debatable point for scholars about it.

Islam promotes pleasure within marriage. Some of us are married women whose partners are far away for long periods of time. If dildos prevent zina, and do not case us to seek out the pleasure of others, there is nothing impermissible about it. Seeking the pleasure of fornication is not the same. Yes. apples and oranges, really. If that law is offensive to some, take it up with God, not with me.

I said I have a dildo. MY dildo, not my husband's dildo. I'm a sexual being. I'm not embarrassed by that. I said nothing about my husband, as have others revealed things about their husbands that perhaps they should not have. I'm also not among those who claim to be overly modest. If others can come here and admit openly to pre-marital sex and people get mad if someone tells them that that is wrong, they have no basis upon which to complain about dildos being mentioned.

I said I have a dildo. MY dildo, not my husband's dildo. I'm a sexual being. I'm not embarrassed by that. I said nothing about my husband, as have others revealed things about their husbands that perhaps they should not have. I'm also not among those who claim to be overly modest. If others can come here and admit openly to pre-marital sex and people get mad if someone tells them that that is wrong, they have no basis upon which to complain about dildos being mentioned.

So, do you want to move on to MENA now or would you still like to go round and round on the God issue?

You have no credibility with me re the God issue. MENA (the geography) is irrelevent.

Because I still find it hypocritical that someone would comment that honor killings and disowning is a common idea in MENA, and it was said many husbands here have at the very least agreed that it happens and have little to say about it, and so when women display behavior that would most certainly fall into the category of unacceptable in MENA terms, I am curious how this is rationalized.

We're not in MENA, and MENA is not Islam.

No one said you said anything about your husband. JP and I have said, wouldn't husbands be offended that such personal things are being discussed in public, and with A MAN WHO IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND?

You don't think it would bother your husband that you are telling people about your dildo? Saying you have had pre-marital sex is not nearly as personal as telling people you masturbate and what you use to do it. There is quite a differnce. If someone were to start telling sex stories of how and when it would be just as personal. But to know that someone is using the drill master 5000 every night before bed is just TMI!

I merely said I had a dildo. All the ruckus around that has raised the issue of what's done with it. As I said before, those who say it shouldn't be discussed pubically are plenty discussing it publically. I'm the only one saying that discussing it publically doesn't bother me. If it bothers others, they should stop talking about it.

Let's see if that happens . . .

Which has nothing to do with God or Islam. The only reason I brought that up is because of one particular person who described their dildo. This person has gone on and on about how religious they are, doesn't make sense.

Does being religious equal fridgid? I have not defined myself as religious. It is a designation being put upon me. I don't care to defend it.

[You got off easy.

Let me ask you something szsz, since the majority of this forum are Muslim I think my question will apply. Now even if you don't wear hijab, are you not supposed to be modest? Should't a woman be modest and not attact any unwanted attention?

Do you think describing someone's personal sex toy's in a public forum is going to go unnoticed to men? Men get their jollies on this kind of crap.


What do you mean?

Like I said, women, Muslim and Christian, who come here and pronounce that they had sex before marriage and don't care what anyone thinks don't catch as much crap as someone saying they have a dildo does. When was the last time I saw someone ask a fornicator what would their husband think about their public announcement? Or shouldn't you be modest?

Never.

I'm not about not attracting attention. Going thru life gets me attention. Apparently much of what I say here attracts attention; if not this, then something else.

Men are not the only ones who get their jollies from dildos.

Like I said, there is a big difference. If a women were to say, I had pre-marital sex she is not really giving out information that is very personal unless she were to get into more detail. If she were to start telling sexcapade stories I'm sure people would speak up. How you can possible compare that with someone describing what they use to masturbate? To give a full description of what you use to pleasure yourself is in no way comparable to stating you have had pre-marital sex. You are comparing apples and oranges. I will agree with you on this, if one were to share sexcapade stories it would be no different that sharing stories about sex toys. However people have been very vauge about premarital sex and pretty much refer to it as "doing the laundry".

We clearly disagree on this and I don't think that will change. I am however going to head off to bed, have a good night.

You're the one who trotted out what God thought and said about sex. And, this atheist has read the good book a few times, as you well know, it's really not hard to figure out what God had in mind.

But we can skip that if you like and move on to MENA culture and the un-acceptability of talking about sex, sex toys, and masturbation with virtual strangers and men who aren't your husband.

You can keep trying to say the question is about talking about a sex toy on the "internet" but I have never asked that question. I have asked about married women talking about sex toys with a married man who is not their husband.

I say what I mean and what I believe, a line you often use. You pronounce and announce what you think is right and wrong all over this board. There is no hypocrisy in asking how it is you rectify what you've previously said with what you've done today.

Regardless of what Islam says about sex or masturbating and dildos, don't you think its disrespectful to discuss such personal things with people you don't know? Don't you think your husband or the husband of those who shared this info would be bothered by this? I don't think you need to be an Arab or Muslim to think this discussion in inappropriate.

The other thing is some of the women (not all) who have posted in this thread about their sex toys have often made comments about how modest they are and then turn around and describe their sex toys on a public forum.

ok no idea how my thread got to this point ......................

Sounds like you could use a dildo yourself, peezy. You're way uptight.

You're an atheist. How would you know what God has in mind?

Additionally, why would you even care?

You're the one who trotted out what God thought and said about sex. And, this atheist has read the good book a few times, as you well know, it's really not hard to figure out what God had in mind.

Phew, thankfully you edited to add the second sentence, it just wouldn't have been ad hominem enough for you.

I give lots of crap about God. But I give even more crap about the hypocrisy revealed in this thread. You certainly don't give me this answer when I'm asking your perspective on other religious questions.

me: szsz, can you give a good recommendation on qu'ran translations?
szsz: sure....here's a big list of them

me: szsz, does God approve of women discussing sex in public with a man who isn't their husband?
szsz: You don't give a crap about God!

Again, revealing.

But as I said several times, leaving God out of this is easy enough, you just refuse to. We can move on to how MENA husbands would find this discussion to be. And how the women here found it acceptable and funny to banter with a man who isn't their husband about their sex toys.

But to know that someone is using the drill master 5000 every night before bed is just TMI!

Do you think describing someone's personal sex toy's in a public forum is going to go unnoticed to men? Men get their jollies on this kind of crap.

I believe that a lot of this uprour stems from some very fertile imaginations on the part of the objectors, not from any particular comment about dildos.