Hi,

To make a long story short...my husband has a son from a previous marriage who is living in the UK with his mom. My husband pays child support for his son.

He has not been able to pay the full amount that was set in England back when they were going through the divorce process, etc. The amount was incredibly high for one child, and he agreed to this amount because the ex-wife was threatening to take him to court-something he wanted to avoid.

Currently he is working temporarily at a LOW paying job in the US until he starts his career job in March/April. Of course the exchange rate is different, so the low pay he receives over here translated to GBP is much lower in the UK. Where we live in the US cost of living and salary is less than in the UK.

Whether this is relevant or not, I might add that his son is in no way living poorly. Of course my husband is responsible for providing for his son, and his ex-wife is wealthy on her own. We, on the other hand, are trying to get on our feet with my husband working temporarily, wasn't able to work for months as we waited for the work permit, and I'm soon going on maternity leave with our first baby. Despite all this about one-third of his weekly earnings is going towards his son in England.

**Yesterday he received a letter from her lawyer in England demanding that he start paying more per week. If he doesn't agree to pay more (which is almost double of what he is currently paying) his ex-wife will consider further legal action. She is willing to have him pay less than the original agreement when they were getting divorced, but it's still way above his weekly earnings. Eventually she wants him to continue paying the previously agreed on amount, and until then will keep track of the difference so he can pay back every cent.

The lawyer has mentioned they are able to make him pay what they demand even though he's living in the US. Apparently under something called the "Hague Convention" the UK has a reciprocal agreement with most the states to force non-custodial parents to pay.

Is anyone familiar with this? Does anyone have any ideas for us? We are not able to pay the amount that was originally set-we just can't. I know that in the end they cannot force us to pay what we can't afford, but I really want to avoid any sort of legal mess. It's stated in their divorce agreement that if the income of my husband were to change, this would also affect the weekly child support/maintenance payments.

If anyone knows or has any experience with this-it would be greatly appreciated. My husband isn't too worried about the ex-wife taking further legal action against him, but it scares me to death that she is back in contact with her lawyer. In the past she has been willing to do whatever to get whatever she wants.

I just want it to be fair for everyone.
Thank you.

I'm sorry you're going through this!

I think the best course of action is that your husband needs to contact his ex-wife. That is providing they are both open to dealing with one another and putting the best interests of the child forward. I understand you guys are between a rock and a hard place, but at the end of the day, your husband does have a duty to his child despite the fact that he has taken on this massive undertaking of emigrating to another country. Put yourself in the ex's shoes...would the fact that your ex decided to move to America to marry someone be reason enough for you to cut hima break on support? Regardless of what the financial health of the ex-wife is.

I'm sorry that I don't seem more sympathetic...I am sympathetic, but I can see both sides. Again, set up some sort of communication with the ex-wife and see if there's some sort of repayment plan that you can make over the next few months so that your support agreement can be made current.

http://travel.state.gov/family/services/su...pport_2596.html <---that might be of help to you.

http://travel.state.gov/family/services/su...pport_2615.html there's something else too

Also sorry to hear about this and I feel for you to have to be in such a predicament.

From reading your post it appears to me that the ex is just going for what she can get. Your husband has not "missed" payments which is great and shows he has no intention of and if his ex wife is wanting more or basically wanting to take him to the cleaners, then that says a lot.

Basically i would have him write to his ex (or her solicitor if he can) outlinging what he has coming in and what is going out and stating that as soon as he is financially able he would not hesitate to forward more money.

Not sure about the reciprocal agreement re child maintenance I know we do have regarding pension payments but at the end of the day you can only send across what you can afford.

My hubby was in this position also but we are both in the uk but he went to court to fight his ex who wanted a ridiculous amount and that was because she knew Alan and I were living together, she thought she could have some of my wages too!!!!!! never got it though. I am in full agreement that fathers should support their children but not be ripped off by over greedy vindictive wives.

There are also childsupport calculators online, that might help you to get an idea of what he should or shouldnt be paying. I used one of these to settle with my ex on support. Best thing is to find what channel you need to go through in order to get the support lowered for now to match hubbys income.

Just found this as well. http://www.csa.gov.uk/

After reading Val's post I went back and re-read cos I was under the impression he wasn't meeting what was already agreed upon. Now I see I obviously misread that & the ex is trying for more money. So I'd say if you are meeting the agreed req's, then you should call the ex's bluff.

Tim is paying about 100 pounds more a month than is required, but I don't let it bother me. I try to look at it open minded and remember he left them behind so they are missing out on the extras he would be doing for them if he were there. I think one thing you might have going for you is the fact you will have children in the home, the UK does take that into consideration when calculating support. The other thing I try to remember is that we (he and I) made the choice to be where we are so whatever struggles financially that come from that does not relieve him of his responsibility to his children. We make ends meet in other ways which is one of the reasons we are not planning on having a child of our own.

His ex did attempt to get more at the beginning when she found out I worked. I stopped this sort of thinking dead in its track by not so kindly telling her "get a job and help support your own children just like most other women do" (this is the sweet version)!

Do take a look at that child support site and see if you can get some answers. The struggles of raising two families isn't easy, then toss in half a world of distance and different costs of livings it gets really fun. I hope you can get it sorted.

You know whats strange about the child support system in the UK.......if you have custody of the child and you move out of the UK to certain countries with the child the other parent is no longer responsible for the child support....doesnt make any sense why if you dont have custody and move you still have to pay. I understand that it is good to still help out after all it is your child...but to me it still doesnt make sense...but then again i am blonde

Well, if a custodial parent decides to move the child away, they are assuming the responsibility financially....but the custodial parent shouldn't be left holding the bag if the other parent just decides to leave.

Well, that's the way I interpret it.

Good for you!

Do you know what, ex-wives/girlfriends like this really give ex's a bad rep in general. My son's father is supposed to give me 300 quid a month in support payments; this was calculated by the CSA. I know, however, that he can't afford that. So, we came to a personal agreement and he pays me 100. He has three kids to support in his current relationship and they are just as important to feed/clothe etc as my son.

I, personally, can't understand why these women want more and more. Guess that's a good thing though. If I could understand it I'd be as bad as them I guess...


Back to topic though ~ Darby, I hope you manage to get this all sorted out. Sorry I can't be of much help myself, but there has been some good advice given here already and I hope that you can put it to some use.

UK Child Support Agency Online Calculator

The website seems pretty helpful and deals with questions you have about arrangements you have with the regards to your child:



Much as the Child Support Agency has, in the past, not had the most stellar of reputations, their information is none-the-less helpful and fair (in my opinion).
Hopefully their calculator will help you to determine what is a fair amount to support the child, based on current circumstances, and I can only assume that their figure - should things be disputed by the ex - would be pretty similar to the one calculated by their website.

Good luck
Annie

Noy paying Child Support could be an issue for Naturalisation, I have certainly heard of it coming up once.

The practicalities of enforcing child support in the US would be interesting and expensive. I have seen it discussed a few times but never by anybody who has doen it or been on the receipt of it.

But then she can ask for whatever she wants, you just say no. If you will agree to anything rather than go to court, well you have no barganing position.

Thank you for your responses.

It does appear that the ex-wife and/or her lawyer can contact the child support agency in the state we are living in, and she can possibly fight via this route. I'm not sure how far she can get as she is in a foreign country. Also, it depends if she would like to be paying lawyers fees for something that she may not even win.

My husband has contacted her solicitor via e-mail and is awaiting a response. He has told her how much he makes each week, and the highest amount he is able to afford. This amount will definitely impact us (which is the situation we've chosen to be in), but he cannot afford to pay what she is demanding. It's impossible unless he were to be working about 100 hours a week! He told the solicitor he is also more than willing to submit proof of his earnings-check stubs, etc. My thought is they may decide not to fight it after that, because really it would be a lost cause. Anyone will be able to see that he can't possibly afford what she is demanding. My husband also told her that he is more than willing to increase the amount when he starts his "real" job in March/April. He is going solely based on his income and being more than fair.

As for my income-I doubt she will be able to get a hold of that. I will have a dependent very soon, and I will be on maternity leave not earning any money and living off my savings. I'd be more than happy to prove that I will have no income for the next six months.

Of course I agree that my husband must be financially responsible for his child, and that when we got married and he moved over here, I knew what it would entail. I do not want my husband to be irresponsible and not pay child support for his son. I have put myself into her position, and I would want money for my child too. That being said, she is being unreasonable about it. A person can only pay what they can afford. No one can pay more than they can afford, and then not be able to support themselves or any future children.

If your husband has responded to his ex wife's solicitor that is all he can do. If his ex is unable to accept that you cant pay what you dont have, then leave her to take it through the international courts.

I would of course advise that you keep all earnings related documentation (which I am sure you do already), if and when it ever gets to court the judge will decide if its fair or not. By the time it reaches the court system though your husband will probably already have started his new job and will be able to go back to the original amount. The ex will then probably drop the court case.

Dont worry as long as he is paying something he will be looked upon in good favor and even better if you have documentation to prove his earnings were low enough to justify the drop in payment.

Good Luck

Not so long ago I went for a job interview at the Child Support section of Social Services in Virginia. I was surprised when the Legal Counsel there told me that there are reciprosity agreements with the UK and they can enforce child support orders made by the CSA in England.

Personally, I would contact the Social Services Department in your State and ASK them outright what powers they have to enforce child support orders issued in the UK by the CSA. They don't have to know any of your details - just ask a generic question. Maybe you can find out on the Social Services website.

I do feel that parents should be jointly financially responsible for their children, no matter where in the world they choose to live, but I do think these payments need to be reasonable. The CSA in the UK is renound for making ridiculous Orders for payment. When my ex-husband left me with three young children and no job - after caring for my sister who was dying of cancer - he was Ordered by the CSA to pay 2 pence per month in child support! Seriously, 2p a month! They even sent me a cheque for that amount! I should have kept it and framed it. There are instances also where amounts just leave the absent parent penniless, which isn't right.

I would first find out from the Child Support Agency here, in your state, what powers they have of enforcement of a UK Order for child support and then decide where to go from there. You may find that an agreement simply made between the two of you is the best thing all round for the child.

I have NEVER heard of anything so crazy!

You think that's bad? My ex has never paid ANY child support, and I get a letter every year to tell me I recieved 0.00 pounds in support for the previous year. Excellent!

I never got any child support for my daughter either, sucks big time but i got a job and did it on my own.

It was pretty funny really - I had three kids on my own and had no means of income, when he left. I went straight out and got myself a job (working for the US government, funnily enough!) and we managed quite nicely, even without child support of any kind from "dad". After the episode where the CSA sent me a cheque for 2p, I phoned them and told them not to waste taxpayers' money sending this meagre amount out because the stamp and the production of the cheque cost considerably more than the value of the payment. They told me "Sorry madam, but we have to pay any amount over to the parent claiming because we can't be seen to be witholding their money!" hahahaha

A month or so later, when they decided that he should be paying more, 30 quid a month it went up to, he would come over to pick the kids up to take them to his house to watch t.v.!! I handed him the cheque, signed the back, and told him to use it to take them somewhere.

I guess the kids benefitted somewhat - at least they didn't have to sit in front of the t.v. all weekend when they went to visit their Dad!

did you give him the 2p one as well?

What a dique! Sorry, but taking back the checks? He oughta be ashamed!

Unfortunately, he thought the grass was greener on the, proverbial, other side of the fence. It just didn't turn out that way for him. I am thankful that the children didn't really suffer because of his lack of financial support and they are understanding of the sacrifices I had to make in order for them to have a good life. No real harm was done by him not paying and, no, I didn't give him the cheque for 2p. I don't remember what I did with it - I really wish I had kept it and had it framed, just for a laugh!

The lack of extra income didn't bother me. However, I thought/think that it shows the total lack of respect that my ex has for his son by allowing himself to wallow in this no income situation. An adult who thinks it's ok to live off the state for years, not a very good role model. Sadly, I know that he sees himself as a victim and has no idea how to help himself.

It is sad when absent parents see themselves as a victim, and in some cases the parent with care and control of the children can make them feel that way. I have known many women that felt the money side of things is what made you a good parent - it isn't. Spending time with them, explaining that they are in no way to blame for the situation, enjoying being with them and having fun, and most-importantly not using the time to "bash" the other parent.

I understand what you are saying about the "wallowing in self pity" and yet he didn't seem to make much of an effort to find work to allow him to provide a better life for his child, but once you allow yourself to get low like that it is really very difficult to pull yourself out of it! It does show a lack of respect for the child, but it shows lack of respect for yourself moreso, in my opinion.

It is difficult bringing up children on your own, but the rewards of being able to say to yourself "I didn't do such a bad job" is tremendous!

I have never used my child to 'get back at' my ex. I don't talk disparigingly about him around my home. I encourage my son to communicate with and visit his father.

I never wanted anything from my ex, nor do I now. However, I do wonder if by allowing fathers to pay nothing towards their childs upbringing is really the right way. If he had to pay something, maybe he would at least realise that in the eyes of society he still has a responsibilty towards his son and he would act in a more fatherly role. It's probably unlikely though.

I sincerely hope that you didn't think my comments were in any way aimed at you. It is so difficult to interject tone to a post and I was just commenting on how other people I know have acted.

I would hate to think I had caused you any offence - it was certainly not my intention. I agree with you 100%. It isn't right that the absent parent (not just fathers I might add) do not contribute to the upbringing of the child they contributed in making!

I never wanted anything from my ex when it came to child support. Unfortunately, because he left when I didn't have a job, and had to claim Income Support, the CSA got involved. I was awarded 2p a month and they sent it to me in the form of a cheque!

All the children ever wanted from him was for him to be a father, absent if that was his choice. But he couldn't even do that for them. Now that they are 18 years old, and still fighting to gain his attention, I see the damage he caused them was nothing to do with money and so that was never worth fighting.

Again, my sincere apologies if I caused you any personal offence, that was not what I had intended.

Reminds me of a friend of my wifes. Husband ups and goes leveing her with 2 small boys.

She has support ordered but he can not be found.

20 years I think later he dies, living in Florida with new wife and family.

They actually notify her, can not remember why, meanhwhile all the accumulated missed support has been accumulating, added up to $150,000 and is a first charge on the estate.

Do not think the new family were that amused, her sons insited that she have it all.

Apology unnecessary, though that was very generous. I wasn't annoyed reading what you said, I just wanted to clarify my position

Wow! You could totally be talking about my soon to be ex! He abused our kids, now doesn't support them, wants maintenance from me and can't see what he did wrong! UGH! You are so right about getting so low and having trouble getting out. Its hard, but worth the effort for your kids. Its hard to see that when mired in self pity. People like that often figure it out too late. When my kids say they hate their father I tell them to feel sorry for him cos he's the one missing out on what great kids they are.

To the OP: I admire you're husband for providing what he can for his child. Sadly, some people are just greedy. I hope you guys can settle on something that will allow the child and you guys to live well. Good luck!!!!

"When my kids say they hate their father I tell them to feel sorry for him cos he's the one missing out on what great kids they are".

I used to say this to my children too, but wasn't aware that it was actually making the situation worse! I had thought I was doing the right thing, not turning them against him, not wanting them to hate him (he was their father after all) and wanting them to realise that he felt the way he did (that I hadn't paid him enough attention while caring for my dying sister) and our splitting up was not their fault.

In the end I had to get a counselor in to talk to them, I was worried because the behavious of my youngest son was a little "off the wall". He was getting in trouble at school, fighting with his siblings, all things that were out of character. Anyway, the counselor said that I wasn't to continually try to "smooth things over", I was to let them be angry, let them direct their anger at him. I wasn't to protect him. I was shocked at the time, thinking that I was doing the right thing and protecting them, but as it turned out she was right.

Years later the children told me that they were angry at him and he needed to know it. That I was stopping them from letting out that anger and that is why my youngest son was taking it out on everybody but my ex-husband, because he didn't want to upset me.

It's funny how we can so often misinterpret a situation. They didn't hate their father, they were angry at him, but didn't know any other way to put it. Oh, they have since told him he's a kn*b! lol They see each other, when they all get together in England, but they now realise that he wasn't (and still isn't by all accounts) a very mature person and they just pity him. Sad really, but at least they can move on with their lives knowing they did their best to have a relationship with him.

The Hague Convention deals with matters of child custody and maintenance etc, and in simplest terms means that any orders or legal agreements in force in a country which is a signatory to the Convention can be enforced in any other country which is also a signatory. Both the UK and USA or signatories to the convention.

I only have experience in enforcing custody orders and child abduction offences under the Convention, but from personal experience I can say the Legal Attache's office at the US Embassy in London will do all in its power to observe and enforce the requirements of the Hague Convention.