Full Version: Issues you may need to discuss with your MENA SO
Trying to restart the conversation, szsz, maybe repost your original thought at the end of the other thread to start us off?
QUOTE(peezey @ Jan 7 2007, 02:22 PM) 
Trying to restart the conversation, szsz, maybe repost your original thought at the end of the other thread to start us off?
Let's try to keep it civil and ignore any comments by trolls.
Building on the argument from the "Honor Killing" thread that no one here would want to marry an MENA man who would advocate murder, how many know and agree with their SOs view about Jews and the nation of Israel? Arab media is unrepentant in villifying Jews as a whole and calling for the destruction of Israel. The hatred there is laid bare.
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 7 2007, 04:56 PM)
Building on the argument from the "Honor Killing" thread that no one here would want to marry an MENA man who would advocate murder, how many know and agree with their SOs view about Jews and the nation of Israel? Arab media is unrepentant in villifying Jews as a whole and calling for the destruction of Israel. The hatred there is laid bare.
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
yep mostly. But I think that is because politics is such an intergral part of my whole being. I suspect many people in this form have no interest in politics and it is not important either way.
In the early stages of our relationship the whole Danish cartoon mess made international headline and we had a lively conversation on this topic. We didn't agree 100% but the disagreement focused on how to handle the situation rather than the core value of how to perceive this incident. If that makes sense.
ETA: If I had been uncomfortable with his views or I found that his core values conflicted with mine, it could have been enough to stop the relationship.
Yes our views match. 
No, that doesn't tell you what our views are. 
No, that doesn't tell you what our views are.
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 7 2007, 02:56 PM)
Building on the argument from the "Honor Killing" thread that no one here would want to marry an MENA man who would advocate murder, how many know and agree with their SOs view about Jews and the nation of Israel? Arab media is unrepentant in villifying Jews as a whole and calling for the destruction of Israel. The hatred there is laid bare.
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
I tried to edit my reply but since I used quick reply instead of a full reply I can't.
While I find this topic interesting and possibly useful for those involved in relationships where this can be an issue, I can see where this could very easily veer off topic and get ugly really fast.
Good luck!
Our views are the same on most everything, however, I will say I can be much more passionate about some things. Our relationship started with a mutual love of politcs and political discussion. There are several things that I am totally rigid on: gay rights, women's rights (in any nation), pro-choice, civil rights for women, minorities (in any nation), anti-war, anti-death penalty, economic equality, and basic tolerance, that I absolutely could not be with someone who didn't have the same values around these things that I do. There are times I've actually ended friendships because of major differences in our core values as related to these issues.
As for ME, I am always on the side of Palestinians, but I also do not villify Jewish people. I abhor the behavior of the government of Israel, and US foreign policy with Israel, and the lobby in the US. My husband is the same. He grew up with Jewish neighbors and didn't know for a long time he was supposed to "hate Jews." I know that he is often far removed from the turmoil, and of course I am even farther away from it, but he finds the hatred brainwashing disgusting on both sides, and really, really hates to hear about suicide bombings, but also feels like he has no idea what the solution is. He throws up his hands more quickly than I do.
Honestly, out of everything we discuss, the hardest thing for him to get OK with is an equitable economic system since his mind is usually wrapped around making money and growing a business. It's pretty much the one thing we disagree on until I remind him that there is only so long you can make money on the backs of others before those backs break.
Without going into details, the one thing we totally disagree on, is how to deal with local Moroccans and Arabs in business. Suffice it to say, I am no longer allowed to speak to any of them based on my ridiculous notion that **all** business is done the same around here no matter one's background.
As for ME, I am always on the side of Palestinians, but I also do not villify Jewish people. I abhor the behavior of the government of Israel, and US foreign policy with Israel, and the lobby in the US. My husband is the same. He grew up with Jewish neighbors and didn't know for a long time he was supposed to "hate Jews." I know that he is often far removed from the turmoil, and of course I am even farther away from it, but he finds the hatred brainwashing disgusting on both sides, and really, really hates to hear about suicide bombings, but also feels like he has no idea what the solution is. He throws up his hands more quickly than I do.
Honestly, out of everything we discuss, the hardest thing for him to get OK with is an equitable economic system since his mind is usually wrapped around making money and growing a business. It's pretty much the one thing we disagree on until I remind him that there is only so long you can make money on the backs of others before those backs break.
Without going into details, the one thing we totally disagree on, is how to deal with local Moroccans and Arabs in business. Suffice it to say, I am no longer allowed to speak to any of them based on my ridiculous notion that **all** business is done the same around here no matter one's background.
QUOTE(melly @ Jan 7 2007, 06:06 PM)
Yes our views match. No, that doesn't tell you what our views are.
No, that doesn't tell you what our views are. hahahaha
ditto!
well blah, we're off to a flying stop. do i really need 
now?
now?
I thought this thread for was for other types of issues you need to discuss with your MENA SO.
Like tissue addiction. Believe it or not, this is a common bond.
Quiz that man about where he puts his dirty socks and does he roll them in a ball that you will need to unroll every time you do laundry. While your on that subject, ask how many times a week he expects laundry.
How he will react to a coworkers nonchalent hug at a holiday party. Discussing this prior could you from an incident.
Just my opinion of course.
J
Like tissue addiction. Believe it or not, this is a common bond.
Quiz that man about where he puts his dirty socks and does he roll them in a ball that you will need to unroll every time you do laundry. While your on that subject, ask how many times a week he expects laundry.
How he will react to a coworkers nonchalent hug at a holiday party. Discussing this prior could you from an incident.
Just my opinion of course.
J
QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jan 7 2007, 04:37 PM)
I thought this thread for was for other types of issues you need to discuss with your MENA SO.
Like tissue addiction. Believe it or not, this is a common bond.
Quiz that man about where he puts his dirty socks and does he roll them in a ball that you will need to unroll every time you do laundry. While your on that subject, ask how many times a week he expects laundry.
How he will react to a coworkers nonchalent hug at a holiday party. Discussing this prior could you from an incident.
Just my opinion of course.
J
Like tissue addiction. Believe it or not, this is a common bond.
Quiz that man about where he puts his dirty socks and does he roll them in a ball that you will need to unroll every time you do laundry. While your on that subject, ask how many times a week he expects laundry.
How he will react to a coworkers nonchalent hug at a holiday party. Discussing this prior could you from an incident.
Just my opinion of course.
J
Already discussed all those actually. Two years gives you a wee bit of time to ask questions.
QUOTE(charlesandnessa @ Jan 7 2007, 04:22 PM)
well blah, we're off to a flying stop. do i really need now?
now?Nope you won't need that. I already asked them nicely to keep it friendly, and they always listen to ME!
Actually I am kinda wondering about what do discuss with my SO. I feel like we have planned our future, what we want to do after he arrives, but not being able to live it out yet makes the topics kind of trail off. So what did you talk about over the two years, Melly? Ok off to see who else is joining my caravan to DC.
Can we not be against the Israeli occupation and yet be rather horrified at rampant anti-Semitism? In much the same way 9/11 has justified outright anti-Muslim hatred in this country, the Israel issue seems to do the same in MENA. Actually, I can only speak of Algeria in this case, but I am frustrated by the ignorance and conspiracy theories. I do not know how to confront it there as what passes as common knowledge is often simply wrong. I love to talk politics, am in fact a political scientist, but I know, hard as it may be, to bite my tongue if I want to hear people's beliefs.
My husband and I agree on this point, but our respective cultures do not. And yet in my mind being in a bi-cultural marriage carries with it some responsibility to dispell ignorance on both sides. We can do so within our own circle, but it is very hard to go beyond that.
Much more to say but dinner calls.
My husband and I agree on this point, but our respective cultures do not. And yet in my mind being in a bi-cultural marriage carries with it some responsibility to dispell ignorance on both sides. We can do so within our own circle, but it is very hard to go beyond that.
Much more to say but dinner calls.
I love to talk politics, am in fact a political scientist, but I know, hard as it may be, to bite my tongue if I want to hear people's beliefs.
How interesting! My undergrad degree is in poli sci. In grad and post grad school, I veered off to cultural specializations, but still love to talk politics.
I know that my husband doesn't hate Jews, nor do I. We also have grave concerns about the Arab-Israeli conflict, but I support the right of Israel to exist (my historian bent). My great grandfather lost land in Jerusalem during the initial occupation, and resettled n Morocco, then the US, but so did many Jews and others. All the way around it is a sad, sad situation and one that is not helped by tradition means of communication, myth and rumor, nor the propaganda and omissions from the other side.
How interesting! My undergrad degree is in poli sci. In grad and post grad school, I veered off to cultural specializations, but still love to talk politics.
I know that my husband doesn't hate Jews, nor do I. We also have grave concerns about the Arab-Israeli conflict, but I support the right of Israel to exist (my historian bent). My great grandfather lost land in Jerusalem during the initial occupation, and resettled n Morocco, then the US, but so did many Jews and others. All the way around it is a sad, sad situation and one that is not helped by tradition means of communication, myth and rumor, nor the propaganda and omissions from the other side.
Wow that's quite a sweeping generalization of all Arab media. It is simply not true -- not all Arab media "vilify the Jewish people," nor "call for the destruction of the state of Israel."
As you all already know, my husband is Palestinian. He was born and raised near Jenin, and lived all his life under Israeli occupation before coming to the U.S. just over 1 year ago. He's been through hell -- beaten by Israeli soldiers for nothing. Detained, interrogated, intimidated, all over nothing. All his life, he's seen family members and friends terrorized, humiliated and harrassed.
One might think he would have more reason than anyone to hold a grudge.
But yet he does not vilify the Jewish people, nor does he call for the destruction of the state of Israel. Of course he wants the illegal occupation and oppression of Palestinian land and its people to end -- he wants Israel to take its settlers and its soldiers and get out of the West Bank and stop the seige of Gaza -- but this is not hatred; it's simply justice.
Mahmoud has more Jewish friends than probably 95 % of the people on VJ -- and every single one of them is Israeli. Some are very close friends, trusted in every way -- he has visited their homes, been invited to eat dinner with their families, worked with them, in some cases even owes his life to them. He speaks fluent Hebrew. He's worked with various Arab-Israeli and international peace groups, all trying to bring a peaceful solution to this terrible situation. He doesn't hate anyone except those who are trying to destroy him and his people.
Muslims and Christians and Jews lived in relative peace in historic Palestine for centuries. That peaceful co-existence was not broken until the 20th century, as the Zionist movement gained strength and international support and began the forced expulsion of the native population and confiscation of their land. This, along with Israel's actions since proclaiming its statehood -- invading and aggressing against its neighbors, seizing their territory -- this is the cause of the hostilities and hatreds that do exist in some segments of Arab society.
There certainly are people who despise the Jewish people in general, and Israel in particular -- a lot of them are not even in the Middle East. Of course there are bigots and racists in every society. But in Palestine and Jordan and Syria and Lebanon and Egypt, the hostile feelings against Israel are not because of some bizarre inherent anti-semitism. They are rooted in the very real crimes that Zionists have perpetrated against the Palestinians, and in Israel's continued invasions of its neighbors. Sadly, the Zionists have claimed their acts are in the name of, and for the good of, the Jewish people, and they have a lot of well-meaning but totally misinformed Americans believing it. However, there are a great number of Jews, both inside Israel and outside, who are entirely opposed to the Israeli government's illegal behavior.
So my husband and I are in total agreement on this issue -- we don't have any problem with the Jewish people. What we have a problem with is Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank (as well as other Arab countries' lands,) its refusal to compensate or even acknowledge the victims of its ethnic cleansing and expansion, its continuing annexation of Palestinian lands, and its ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people and their right to self-determination.
As you all already know, my husband is Palestinian. He was born and raised near Jenin, and lived all his life under Israeli occupation before coming to the U.S. just over 1 year ago. He's been through hell -- beaten by Israeli soldiers for nothing. Detained, interrogated, intimidated, all over nothing. All his life, he's seen family members and friends terrorized, humiliated and harrassed.
One might think he would have more reason than anyone to hold a grudge.
But yet he does not vilify the Jewish people, nor does he call for the destruction of the state of Israel. Of course he wants the illegal occupation and oppression of Palestinian land and its people to end -- he wants Israel to take its settlers and its soldiers and get out of the West Bank and stop the seige of Gaza -- but this is not hatred; it's simply justice.
Mahmoud has more Jewish friends than probably 95 % of the people on VJ -- and every single one of them is Israeli. Some are very close friends, trusted in every way -- he has visited their homes, been invited to eat dinner with their families, worked with them, in some cases even owes his life to them. He speaks fluent Hebrew. He's worked with various Arab-Israeli and international peace groups, all trying to bring a peaceful solution to this terrible situation. He doesn't hate anyone except those who are trying to destroy him and his people.
Muslims and Christians and Jews lived in relative peace in historic Palestine for centuries. That peaceful co-existence was not broken until the 20th century, as the Zionist movement gained strength and international support and began the forced expulsion of the native population and confiscation of their land. This, along with Israel's actions since proclaiming its statehood -- invading and aggressing against its neighbors, seizing their territory -- this is the cause of the hostilities and hatreds that do exist in some segments of Arab society.
There certainly are people who despise the Jewish people in general, and Israel in particular -- a lot of them are not even in the Middle East. Of course there are bigots and racists in every society. But in Palestine and Jordan and Syria and Lebanon and Egypt, the hostile feelings against Israel are not because of some bizarre inherent anti-semitism. They are rooted in the very real crimes that Zionists have perpetrated against the Palestinians, and in Israel's continued invasions of its neighbors. Sadly, the Zionists have claimed their acts are in the name of, and for the good of, the Jewish people, and they have a lot of well-meaning but totally misinformed Americans believing it. However, there are a great number of Jews, both inside Israel and outside, who are entirely opposed to the Israeli government's illegal behavior.
So my husband and I are in total agreement on this issue -- we don't have any problem with the Jewish people. What we have a problem with is Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank (as well as other Arab countries' lands,) its refusal to compensate or even acknowledge the victims of its ethnic cleansing and expansion, its continuing annexation of Palestinian lands, and its ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people and their right to self-determination.
MK
Thank you for this eloquent post. You express a sentiment that is so real among many palestinians and israelis and who sadly have their voices muted by an American media who perfers to paint this conflict with sweeping and ignorant generalizations. The small handful of palestinians and israelis that I have met have spoken of this same experience. I suspect it more the reality than an anomaly.
Until we are willing to understand this conflict in human terms rather than political rhetoric we will remain far from a solution.
Thank you for this eloquent post. You express a sentiment that is so real among many palestinians and israelis and who sadly have their voices muted by an American media who perfers to paint this conflict with sweeping and ignorant generalizations. The small handful of palestinians and israelis that I have met have spoken of this same experience. I suspect it more the reality than an anomaly.
Until we are willing to understand this conflict in human terms rather than political rhetoric we will remain far from a solution.
Where do the Israeli's belong?
now it's gonna get good
QUOTE(charlesandnessa @ Jan 7 2007, 07:56 PM)
now it's gonna get good
Prior to joining MENA I have not been into politics. I'm not up on the situation, so that was a serious question, no sarcasm intended. Those who know me know I mean no harm, and those that don't better put their guns down.
Me either far from politically correct, guess thats what we are supposed to learn here
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 09:55 PM)
Where do the Israeli's belong?
What do you mean?
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jan 7 2007, 08:04 PM)
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 09:55 PM)
Where do the Israeli's belong?
What do you mean?
Never mind. I'll do some reading before I ask silly questions.
Wow that's quite a sweeping generalization of all Arab media. It is simply not true -- not all Arab media "vilify the Jewish people," nor "call for the destruction of the state of Israel."
Wow, WOM, that's a misleading makeover of my statement. It's simply not true that I said ALL Arab media, nor did I include anything about a "call for the destruction of the state of Israel." I'm also not in denial about what is broadcast.
If this thread is going to go off track, it will be because of embellishments like this.
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
Wow, WOM, that's a misleading makeover of my statement. It's simply not true that I said ALL Arab media, nor did I include anything about a "call for the destruction of the state of Israel." I'm also not in denial about what is broadcast.
If this thread is going to go off track, it will be because of embellishments like this.
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 10:06 PM)
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jan 7 2007, 08:04 PM)
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 09:55 PM)
Where do the Israeli's belong?
What do you mean?
Never mind. I'll do some reading before I ask silly questions.
A question is never silly if you are asking to learn. I wanted to answer but I wasn;t sure what you meant
ETA: besides if you are wondering, i bet there are others who would ask the same question. So asking is always good.
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 11:55 PM)
Where do the Israeli's belong?
Well they belong in Israel. Problem is, they want the West Bank, too.
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jan 7 2007, 08:09 PM)
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 10:06 PM)
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jan 7 2007, 08:04 PM)
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 09:55 PM)
Where do the Israeli's belong?
What do you mean?
Never mind. I'll do some reading before I ask silly questions.
A question is never silly if you are asking to learn. I wanted to answer but I wasn;t sure what you meant
ETA: besides if you are wondering, i bet there are others who would ask the same question. So asking is always good.
Ok then I put it out there again, and now WoM has come by and answered it. I just wasn't sure if they had a real country of their own, or were just trying to make/take one. I only know the history of Isrealites from a Biblical standpoint, and not even sure where they went after that. Like I said, I need to catch up on my history, and fast apparently. Thanks for being willing to help out.
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 10:15 PM)
Ok then I put it out there again, and now WoM has come by and answered it. I just wasn't sure if they had a real country of their own, or were just trying to make/take one. I only know the history of Isrealites from a Biblical standpoint, and not even sure where they went after that. Like I said, I need to catch up on my history, and fast apparently. Thanks for being willing to help out.
Yeah and its so complicated to start understanding israel as a modern nation and where its boundaries should be. One thing that is often left out of a discussion about israelis is that they are Jewish, Christian Muslim as well as Atheists, Agnostic etc... Some Israeli Jews settled after WW2 while many other Israeli Jews are native to the region long before the creation of an Israeli state. In college I was friends with a Russian-American Jew whose husabnd was an Israeli and family had been in the region for centuries. His family faced a lot of discrimination from the more influencial European Jews who settled there after 1947. Many many Israelis do not support the policies of the recent governments in regards to the palestinians.
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 8 2007, 12:07 AM)
Wow that's quite a sweeping generalization of all Arab media. It is simply not true -- not all Arab media "vilify the Jewish people," nor "call for the destruction of the state of Israel."
Wow, WOM, that's a misleading makeover of my statement. It's simply not true that I said ALL Arab media, nor did I include anything about a "call for the destruction of the state of Israel." I'm also not in denial about what is broadcast.
If this thread is going to go off track, it will be because of embellishments like this.
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
Wow, WOM, that's a misleading makeover of my statement. It's simply not true that I said ALL Arab media, nor did I include anything about a "call for the destruction of the state of Israel." I'm also not in denial about what is broadcast.
If this thread is going to go off track, it will be because of embellishments like this.
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
Misleading ? This is what you said:
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 7 2007, 06:56 PM)
Building on the argument from the "Honor Killing" thread that no one here would want to marry an MENA man who would advocate murder, how many know and agree with their SOs view about Jews and the nation of Israel? Arab media is unrepentant in villifying Jews as a whole and calling for the destruction of Israel. The hatred there is laid bare.
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
The way you wrote it, it was a generalization. You didn't say "some Arab media," you said "Arab media." I didn't "make over" anything. But if that's not what you meant, I can accept your re-phrasing it. No denial here, just pointing out the fact that not all Arab media does the things you originally stated.
Now, as far getting emotional, or "lecturing" you, I've done neither. You asked a question. I answered it. It seems it wasn't the answer you wanted.
By the way, you've described yourself as a 4th generation Palestinian-American, born in the U.S. Well my great-grandmother and great-grandfather were born in France, and that whole side of my family is all of French heritage.... but this doesn't make me French.
And as for my husband (the one I'm "just" married to) well, he IS an actual born-and-bred Palestinian. Not only that, but all of his family are born-and-bred Palestinians, too. And he, and his family, agree with everything I've written here.
QUOTE(wife_of_mahmoud @ Jan 7 2007, 09:27 PM)
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 8 2007, 12:07 AM)
Wow that's quite a sweeping generalization of all Arab media. It is simply not true -- not all Arab media "vilify the Jewish people," nor "call for the destruction of the state of Israel."
Wow, WOM, that's a misleading makeover of my statement. It's simply not true that I said ALL Arab media, nor did I include anything about a "call for the destruction of the state of Israel." I'm also not in denial about what is broadcast.
If this thread is going to go off track, it will be because of embellishments like this.
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
Wow, WOM, that's a misleading makeover of my statement. It's simply not true that I said ALL Arab media, nor did I include anything about a "call for the destruction of the state of Israel." I'm also not in denial about what is broadcast.
If this thread is going to go off track, it will be because of embellishments like this.
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
Misleading ? This is what you said:
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 7 2007, 06:56 PM)
Building on the argument from the "Honor Killing" thread that no one here would want to marry an MENA man who would advocate murder, how many know and agree with their SOs view about Jews and the nation of Israel? Arab media is unrepentant in villifying Jews as a whole and calling for the destruction of Israel. The hatred there is laid bare.
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
Do your views mesh regarding that topic?
The way you wrote it, it was a generalization. You didn't say "some Arab media," you said "Arab media." I didn't "make over" anything. But if that's not what you meant, I can accept your re-phrasing it. No denial here, just pointing out the fact that not all Arab media does the things you originally stated.
Now, as far getting emotional, or "lecturing" you, I've done neither. You asked a question. I answered it. It seems it wasn't the answer you wanted.
By the way, you've described yourself as a 4th generation Palestinian-American, born in the U.S. Well my great-grandmother and great-grandfather were born in France, and that whole side of my family is all of French heritage.... but this doesn't make me French.
And as for my husband (the one I'm "just" married to) well, he IS an actual born-and-bred Palestinian. Not only that, but all of his family are born-and-bred Palestinians, too. And he, and his family, agree with everything I've written here.
I didn't say ALL either, nor did I add anything about destroyng Israel. You added that, and you didn't have to.
I wasn't looking for a particular answer, and couldn't care less what you view is. I don't appreciate you aimming your answer at me for an invalid reason.
BTW, you really know nothing more about me than that I am 4th generation born in the US. You don't know about my background, where I grew up or have lived, nor where my family lives. You make sweeping comments about French ancestry assuming it relates to my background. You make ALOT of assumptions. Then you ASSume that they have meaning and that they are true. Bad habit on your part.
The fact is, marrying a Palestinian doesn't make you an expert on Palestinians. I have family too, but I'm not going to go into some pissing contest with your pride to prove who is more Palestinian than whom.
I would win, I assure you. I am not Palestinian by injection, and I wouldn't be less Palestinian by divorce.
I was wrong, I did have to correct to say that I did make that statement. I didn't think about it as it is simply an opening statement to spark discussion, not a statement to cause dissention. ALL are free to comment.
I really have no perference as to the views of others, but I'll be damned if I will stay put for someone to slam me and my heritage because, without knowing much about me, they assume they're more Palestinian than I am because of their marriage, so their opinion has more weight than others. Give me a break!This topic is open to all. If rank is going to be pulled because of who someone is married to, we may as well stop the discussion now.
I really have no perference as to the views of others, but I'll be damned if I will stay put for someone to slam me and my heritage because, without knowing much about me, they assume they're more Palestinian than I am because of their marriage, so their opinion has more weight than others. Give me a break!This topic is open to all. If rank is going to be pulled because of who someone is married to, we may as well stop the discussion now.
mar7aba ..ana mahmoud men falasteen ..awal she ya eli bt7ki 3an 7alek falastenih .. enti ath bati eli enek ma bt3rafi 3an falasteen wla she .thanyan marati bt3ref 3an falasteen akthar menk ..b3deen men treeket 7kyek .. embayen 3leek ma zorti falasteen wla elk ay 7da fi falasteen .. liano law ana kont m7lek .kont tameet 7ali fi jorah wi est7eet eni a7ki 3an 7ali falasteeni.. ba3deen mesh kol alnas wa7ad ...ana ma bkrah alyhood kolhom ..liano fi almlee7 wi al3atel ween ma kona ..fi falasteen wa fi kol al3alam.ba3deen kabel la tektbi ay shi ..e3rafi sho katabti.. mshan t3rafi keef alnas ra7 etjawbek.. lianek bt7ki ma 7keet shi wa enti 7keeti al7aki .eli a3ta lanas eli mwjodeen yjawbook bna2a 3la 7kyek.fi alakher la tekhzeena allah ykhleeki li ana falasteenyeh wa elna alsharaf enkon falasteenyeh... Mahmoud alfalasteeni men jenin
Wanna go there so that no one else knows what's being said? That's rude. Take it off the boards and PM me.
QUOTE(wife_of_mahmoud @ Jan 7 2007, 11:01 PM)
mar7aba ..ana mahmoud men falasteen ..awal she ya eli bt7ki 3an 7alek falastenih .. enti ath bati eli enek ma bt3rafi 3an falasteen wla she .thanyan marati bt3ref 3an falasteen akthar menk ..b3deen men treeket 7kyek .. embayen 3leek ma zorti falasteen wla elk ay 7da fi falasteen .. liano law ana kont m7lek .kont tameet 7ali fi jorah wi est7eet eni a7ki 3an 7ali falasteeni.. ba3deen mesh kol alnas wa7ad ...ana ma bkrah alyhood kolhom ..liano fi almlee7 wi al3atel ween ma kona ..fi falasteen wa fi kol al3alam.ba3deen kabel la tektbi ay shi ..e3rafi sho katabti.. mshan t3rafi keef alnas ra7 etjawbek.. lianek bt7ki ma 7keet shi wa enti 7keeti al7aki .eli a3ta lanas eli mwjodeen yjawbook bna2a 3la 7kyek.fi alakher la tekhzeena allah ykhleeki li ana falasteenyeh wa elna alsharaf enkon falasteenyeh... Mahmoud alfalasteeni men jenin
arrrggghhh I hate that my computer will not pick up certain letters and shows them as 7s or 3s ...any solutions? doenloads? settings?
They are 3s and 7s. No adjustment to your pc needed.
QUOTE(maggieNomar @ Jan 7 2007, 07:56 PM)
QUOTE(charlesandnessa @ Jan 7 2007, 04:22 PM)
well blah, we're off to a flying stop. do i really need now?
now?Nope you won't need that. I already asked them nicely to keep it friendly, and they always listen to ME!
hhahahah that made me laugh.. I will stop here- while I am still smiling..Have a great day!
If anyone wants to know what my husband said, he is ready to translate it, but he didn't want to shame you in front of everyone.
You are the one who opened the can of worms about heritage, and about how yours is somehow more meaningful to this discussion than that of the husband I'm "just" married to. I simply responded in kind. Now you're crying "foul" about the unfairness of "trying to be more Palestinian." Well then... why did you bring it up in the first place ?
You are the one who opened the can of worms about heritage, and about how yours is somehow more meaningful to this discussion than that of the husband I'm "just" married to. I simply responded in kind. Now you're crying "foul" about the unfairness of "trying to be more Palestinian." Well then... why did you bring it up in the first place ?
One thing that every Palestinian with their heart in Palestine wants is the right of return. One thing you should never do is question the legitimacy of a displaced people who have lost their home thru an injustice. Them's fighting words!
QUOTE(wife_of_mahmoud @ Jan 7 2007, 10:19 PM)
If anyone wants to know what my husband said, he is ready to translate it, but he didn't want to shame you in front of everyone.
You are the one who opened the can of worms about heritage, and about how yours is somehow more meaningful to this discussion than that of the husband I'm "just" married to. I simply responded in kind. Now you're crying "foul" about the unfairness of "trying to be more Palestinian." Well then... why did you bring it up in the first place ?
You are the one who opened the can of worms about heritage, and about how yours is somehow more meaningful to this discussion than that of the husband I'm "just" married to. I simply responded in kind. Now you're crying "foul" about the unfairness of "trying to be more Palestinian." Well then... why did you bring it up in the first place ?
You brought it up by asserting authority thru marriage, thenm by trying to diminish me thru trying to diminish my place in the world as a Palestinian. You show little understanding of a displaced people when you do that, and you do another injustice. I will not be shamed by that act. Don't try to compare me to your French heritage. It's not the same at all. You don't know enough about my background to judge and your husband has a nerve to try to shame me.
ebayen 3leelk ma bt3rafi 3rabi wla btfrafe te7ki 3arabi ..embayen eno al3rab 3amleen elk 3mleh ...sho 3amleen elk ..e7kili mshan a7el al3kdi eli 3ndek thed al3arab ...b3deen e3rafi sho btktobi .wi kaman e3rafi sho btjawbi ...liano embayen e7na bn7ki fi altreek alsa7ee7 wi ent shathef fi tareek tanyeh...embayen 3leeki sharbeh eshi . ba3deen enti yli bt7ki 3an 7alek falasteenieh ...sho bt3rafi enti 3an falasteen ..e7kili eza enti falasteenyeh ... mshan asadek enk falasteenyeh..mashi?
I have no interest in continuing to argue with you, WOM. I prefer peace. Frankly, it surprises me that this has happened. It also surprises me that you don't know better than to tell a Palestinian who isn't currently in Palestine that they're lesser than those who are. That's lesson number 1. I got more upset than I ever thought I would. That surprised me!
I've kept info about myself to a minimum on the boards because I've learned that it does no good to talk about personal stuff in public. If you want to talk about this off the boards, I'm fine with that. We are family. It's best that we educate ourselves than continue on blindly.
I've kept info about myself to a minimum on the boards because I've learned that it does no good to talk about personal stuff in public. If you want to talk about this off the boards, I'm fine with that. We are family. It's best that we educate ourselves than continue on blindly.
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 8 2007, 01:37 AM)
I have no interest in continuing to argue with you, WOM. I prefer peace. Frankly, it surprises me that this has happened. It also surprises me that you don't know better than to tell a Palestinian who isn't currently in Palestine that they're lesser than those who are. That's lesson number 1. I got more upset than I ever thought I would. That surprised me!
I've kept info about myself to a minimum on the boards because I've learned that it does no good to talk about personal stuff in public. If you want to talk about this off the boards, I'm fine with that. We are family. It's best that we educate ourselves than continue on blindly.
I've kept info about myself to a minimum on the boards because I've learned that it does no good to talk about personal stuff in public. If you want to talk about this off the boards, I'm fine with that. We are family. It's best that we educate ourselves than continue on blindly.
Now you're just trippin.
This is what you said to start off the heritage tangent:
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 8 2007, 12:07 AM)
I AM Palestinian, as is my family; I'm not just married to one. I don't need a lecture on how it is there or the atrocities that have and do go on or who gets along with whom. Why you think I do is not because of anything I actually said. I'm not interested in a "who's more offended by the Israeli government than who. No one has to agree here, but I would GREATLY appreciate it if emotion doesn't overtake reading comprehension, opening the door for negative assumptions.
You tried to put me and my answers down because I'm "just" married to a Palestinian. I guess you thought being a 4th generation American of Palestinian heritage would be some kind of trump card, but it seems you didn't think it through very well. Now you stoop to self-pitying histrionics over imagined slights I never made.
Cry me a river.
By the way, do you speak Arabic at all ? You haven't responded to a word my husband wrote (except the one word I translated.) He is becoming suspicious.
You pulled the heritage card first in your post after you came at me. You know, I only posted my comment at the request of peezy and those who wished to discuss the comment. I should have known someone would make a big deal out of it. I'm surprised it was you.
I responded because it's clear to me that you wanted to corner the market on who is more Palestinian. Then, you made that clear by trying to put me down as less Palestinian than you and Mahmoud by comparing me to your French heritage.
Ask the people here who've sent me Arabic to translate if I understand it. Except for the first part of his first post, I'm not even reading them. Be suspicious all you want. I have made it clear that if you want to discuss in Arabic, take it off the boards. It's rude to leave others out. You have no problem berating me in English.
I responded because it's clear to me that you wanted to corner the market on who is more Palestinian. Then, you made that clear by trying to put me down as less Palestinian than you and Mahmoud by comparing me to your French heritage.
Ask the people here who've sent me Arabic to translate if I understand it. Except for the first part of his first post, I'm not even reading them. Be suspicious all you want. I have made it clear that if you want to discuss in Arabic, take it off the boards. It's rude to leave others out. You have no problem berating me in English.
I guess you thought being a 4th generation American of Palestinian heritage would be some kind of trump card, but it seems you didn't think it through very well.
This is all you know, and you are trying to milk it dry. Won't work.
Palestinian vs. Wife of Palestinian. Rich.
This is all you know, and you are trying to milk it dry. Won't work.
Palestinian vs. Wife of Palestinian. Rich.
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 7 2007, 09:08 PM)
Wanna go there so that no one else knows what's being said? That's rude. Take it off the boards and PM me.
Oooh I know what he said. Thanks Hicham for translating.
Mazel tov!
QUOTE(wife_of_mahmoud @ Jan 7 2007, 09:36 PM)
ebayen 3leelk ma bt3rafi 3rabi wla btfrafe te7ki 3arabi ..embayen eno al3rab 3amleen elk 3mleh ...sho 3amleen elk ..e7kili mshan a7el al3kdi eli 3ndek thed al3arab ...b3deen e3rafi sho btktobi .wi kaman e3rafi sho btjawbi ...liano embayen e7na bn7ki fi altreek alsa7ee7 wi ent shathef fi tareek tanyeh...embayen 3leeki sharbeh eshi . ba3deen enti yli bt7ki 3an 7alek falasteenieh ...sho bt3rafi enti 3an falasteen ..e7kili eza enti falasteenyeh ... mshan asadek enk falasteenyeh..mashi?
That's a zinger!
Oy. Once we start an argument as to who has a stronger claim on suffering we are doomed. It can be nothing but ugly. So, in an attempt to make this something more productive...
Maybe Palestinians, Jordanians and those in the region have personal experience on which to base thier opinions. I disagree ferociously with the interchangable use of Jews and Zionists, but I understand why it may be the case. However, in Algeria you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the younger generations who has met a Jewish person. There is no experience. How then are opinions formed? And, how are they ever challenged?
In the few instances over the course of a year when I could get someone to talk politics with me, they laughed off the Israel issue, claiming Algeria was not the Middle East and didn't care about it. But, what passed as common knowledge was riddled with gross stereotype and fear of "Jews." The Jews were going to come back for their apartments in Algiers. The Jews rule the world. People one does not like are suspected of being closeted Jews, etc. How does one get the idea that, for example, Hilary Clinton is Jewish (this one kind of cracked me up as just being wacky, up but started to annoy me after I heard it once too often)? And, more importantly, how do you encourage real information in the face of loony stereotyping and scapegoating? We know how to start when we talk about a similar problems in the US regarding Muslims. But, I don't understand enough about how information flows and opinions form in Algeria to know there.
That is my objective stance and the questions that come from it. But it matters to me personally as well. My husband and I lived and will soon live again in San Francisco where we rarely have to deal with the Jewish/Muslim issue. If anything we are a bit of a curiosity in a party trick way which is easy enough to brush off or, if the mood is right, explain. So, we can live in our US world quite well. But I do worry that being married to a Jew isolates him in his own culture and only encourages what is already his tendancy--to live in the US and never look back.
Maybe Palestinians, Jordanians and those in the region have personal experience on which to base thier opinions. I disagree ferociously with the interchangable use of Jews and Zionists, but I understand why it may be the case. However, in Algeria you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the younger generations who has met a Jewish person. There is no experience. How then are opinions formed? And, how are they ever challenged?
In the few instances over the course of a year when I could get someone to talk politics with me, they laughed off the Israel issue, claiming Algeria was not the Middle East and didn't care about it. But, what passed as common knowledge was riddled with gross stereotype and fear of "Jews." The Jews were going to come back for their apartments in Algiers. The Jews rule the world. People one does not like are suspected of being closeted Jews, etc. How does one get the idea that, for example, Hilary Clinton is Jewish (this one kind of cracked me up as just being wacky, up but started to annoy me after I heard it once too often)? And, more importantly, how do you encourage real information in the face of loony stereotyping and scapegoating? We know how to start when we talk about a similar problems in the US regarding Muslims. But, I don't understand enough about how information flows and opinions form in Algeria to know there.
That is my objective stance and the questions that come from it. But it matters to me personally as well. My husband and I lived and will soon live again in San Francisco where we rarely have to deal with the Jewish/Muslim issue. If anything we are a bit of a curiosity in a party trick way which is easy enough to brush off or, if the mood is right, explain. So, we can live in our US world quite well. But I do worry that being married to a Jew isolates him in his own culture and only encourages what is already his tendancy--to live in the US and never look back.
Oy. Once we start an argument as to who has a stronger claim on suffering we are doomed. It can be nothing but ugly. So, in an attempt to make this something more productive...
A longer view of history precludes such a claim, and I haven't asserted one. I realize that much was lost for many, and there is no reason for a pissing contest about how "real Palestinians" got to stay and suffer, while others lost everything, were forced to move, and therefore, their heritage is moot. That is simply another form of oppression.
My family has our own long history there, and it is one that has not been forgotten by attainment of American citizenship for some of us. We were pushed away, but never stayed away, and never before made to feel lesser. I have ventured far across the boundaries, and, it's true, in much of the Middle East, Arabs have few if any contacts with Jews. There is an undeniable chasm, and one that helps to exaserbate the misunderstandings. Of course there are Arabs who do not hate Jews, and Jews who do not hate Arabs; that is a given. While we can't quell the conflict in this thread, we can cope with the original genesis of it, and that is, how does it play out in your household? It is a relevant question and an important one.
A longer view of history precludes such a claim, and I haven't asserted one. I realize that much was lost for many, and there is no reason for a pissing contest about how "real Palestinians" got to stay and suffer, while others lost everything, were forced to move, and therefore, their heritage is moot. That is simply another form of oppression.
My family has our own long history there, and it is one that has not been forgotten by attainment of American citizenship for some of us. We were pushed away, but never stayed away, and never before made to feel lesser. I have ventured far across the boundaries, and, it's true, in much of the Middle East, Arabs have few if any contacts with Jews. There is an undeniable chasm, and one that helps to exaserbate the misunderstandings. Of course there are Arabs who do not hate Jews, and Jews who do not hate Arabs; that is a given. While we can't quell the conflict in this thread, we can cope with the original genesis of it, and that is, how does it play out in your household? It is a relevant question and an important one.
My husband and I lived and will soon live again in San Francisco where we rarely have to deal with the Jewish/Muslim issue. If anything we are a bit of a curiosity in a party trick way which is easy enough to brush off or, if the mood is right, explain. So, we can live in our US world quite well. But I do worry that being married to a Jew isolates him in his own culture and only encourages what is already his tendancy--to live in the US and never look back.
I meant to comment on this as a Muslim who was once married to a Christian. The isolation can go both ways, you separated from the Jewish community and he separated from the Muslim community. I won't hazard a guess as for whom the isolation will be more life-altering, but it is difficult to equalize or abolish it altogether.
I meant to comment on this as a Muslim who was once married to a Christian. The isolation can go both ways, you separated from the Jewish community and he separated from the Muslim community. I won't hazard a guess as for whom the isolation will be more life-altering, but it is difficult to equalize or abolish it altogether.
QUOTE(Green-eyed girl @ Jan 8 2007, 10:53 AM)
My husband and I lived and will soon live again in San Francisco where we rarely have to deal with the Jewish/Muslim issue. If anything we are a bit of a curiosity in a party trick way which is easy enough to brush off or, if the mood is right, explain. So, we can live in our US world quite well. But I do worry that being married to a Jew isolates him in his own culture and only encourages what is already his tendancy--to live in the US and never look back.
I meant to comment on this as a Muslim who was once married to a Christian. The isolation can go both ways, you separated from the Jewish community and he separated from the Muslim community. I won't hazard a guess as for whom the isolation will be more life-altering, but it is difficult to equalize or abolish it altogether.
I meant to comment on this as a Muslim who was once married to a Christian. The isolation can go both ways, you separated from the Jewish community and he separated from the Muslim community. I won't hazard a guess as for whom the isolation will be more life-altering, but it is difficult to equalize or abolish it altogether.
I agree in general, but not in our case. I am not part of a Jewish community, but am of Jewish heritage. It isn't the religious issue that worries me, but the cultural one. We do not feel the pressure of this in the US, but really do when in Algeria.
I also did not mean to imply that you have not been insulted here, only that it derailed what could be a good discussion.
Good to see someone else up at this hour.
I'll be up all night. I have a proposal deadline looming. Thanks a lot for your input. Insha'allah, it will look better for all of us in the daylight. No more derailments!
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