I have met many many people here in America that claim to be from all sorts of places.... just because there great great great grandfather came from there....

Well I am sorry but the perfect answer was given to a lady on a flight to dublin by the cabinstaff... the passanger was claiming because her grandfather came from dublin she was Irish and therefore she was Irish..... the cabin staff asked her if she held a Irish passport.. the lady said NO... she was then told very politly that if she had no irish passport then she was not Irish....

So may be the answer here is if you have or qualify for a passport from palastine the you are from palistine if you have a passport from America then you come from the USA...

My husbands family came from Russia and yes they are Jews does he claim to be from Russia NO he is 100% American.. I was born and brought up and lived my life in Scotland until 2005 so as far as I am concered I am Scottish...

All this crap about I am 5th generation whatever is just hot air.... if you were not born there and dont live there then you dont come from there....

Kez

then how did they get here if they didn't come from there?

Szsz,

It's very difficult to hold a meaningful discussion with someone who doesn't seem to even remember what she writes from one post to the next.

You began with this:



I responded that your comment about Arab media was a sweeping generalization, and that it wasn’t true. Then I specifically answered the questions you posed – stating my husband's particular attitudes and opinions on the matter of the Jewish people and the state of Israel, especially with regard to his being a Palestinian who has lived under Israeli occupation all his life. I went on to address the "hatred" you cite in your own original statement. I said that "hatred" is not quite the proper characterization of much of the anti-Israeli sentiment in the Middle East. And I answered your question of whether or not my husband and I are in agreement in our opinions.

Well for some reason my answers irritated you, although you'd specifically asked us to write about our personal discussions of the subject. You characterized my answers as some kind of personal attack on you, accusing me of creating a “misleading makeover” of your statement, even denying that you’d ever said anything about "destruction of Israel”:



You actually accuse me here of “embellishing” your remarks, even though I quoted you word-for-word, and everyone can still see what you wrote. You kept up the denials for several more posts before finally admitting that it's what you'd written in the first place.

Meanwhile, you continued to be express personal offense to my answers to your questions, as if stating our opinions on the topic you asked about was somehow an attack on you:



Next, you initiate a very insulting "who's more Palestinian than who" game – a game which you subsequently have the nerve to blame me for starting. But it was actually you, with this remark:



When I responded that my husband and all his family ARE born-and-raised Palestinians, and that they agree with what I'd written about their attitudes about Jews and Israel, you became quite upset, and began to accuse me of starting some kind of “ranking” game. You can’t even admit that it was you yourself who started it, in an attempt to dismiss my responses. If it’s such a terrible argument to make, why in the world did you say it in the first place ?

I answered you that being of a certain heritage does not turn you into a person who lives in that country, and I used my own family to make a point. You either didn't get it at all, or consciously chose to be offended about things I never said or even insinuated.

Let me break it down more simply for you: one's heritage (just like one's marriage) does not turn one an "instant expert" in anything. Babies are not born knowing history and politics and culture. They have to learn it. But attaining this knowledge is not dependant on one’s ethnicity -- it's possible for anyone to be come an expert on any subject in the world. One does not need to be a 4th generation American-born Palestinian to have credible or even extensive knowledge of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. And "not" being Palestinian oneself does not preclude one from attaining that knowledge. In fact, many experts on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict are not Palestinian (or Israeli) at all.



You say I don’t know everything about you. Well of course not, and I’ve never tried to say that. Nor have I offered any “assumptions” about you as you claim – I have merely referred to statements you made about yourself here on VJ.

By the same token, you should realize that you don’t know everything about me, yet you have assumed (and clearly stated) that what I know is based “just” on being married to a Palestinian.



This is intentionally very insulting as well as quite misleading – a blatant attempt to dismiss my comments by characterizing my remarks as based solely on the fact that I happen to be married to a Palestinian. However, this is actually baseless.

I have never claimed to be the "definitive expert" on all things Palestinian. But I do have extensive personal experience in Palestine, which I’ve cited many times here on VJ. Your attempt here to shut me down on the basis of my ethnicity is simply the tactic of a bigot. I've spent years studying the history and politics of this particular area, and years travelling to the West Bank (as well as Jordan) -- and all this began long before I ever met my husband. I've personally worked in both the media and in human rights in Palestine, I’ve written extensively on the matter, I've worked inside the camps, and I have direct experience with the issues of the conflict. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes, and yes, during some of the very worst of hostilities. Even the "divorce" that you so casually insert into your argument could not erase all this knowledge and experience.

So your attempts to dismiss my input with childish insults about me being someone who is "just married to a Palestinian," even "Palestinian by injection" (!!!) are quite off the mark. You were very quick to pull the "I'm-a-Palestinian-so-you-can't-tell-me-anything" card. But it seems that you forgot that my Palestinian husband is right here beside me, seeing and agreeing with everything I'm writing, and he even told you so himself. This appears to be what really burns you up. My husband has lived in Palestine all his life, and he told you that you’re wrong. He spoke to you in Arabic, as a Palestinian to a Palestinian, in the native language of Palestine. Many other Arabs would do the same. He told you that people in this thread, including me, are responding to the very words you wrote. And after reading your responses to my comments, he told you how you're not even making any sense any more.

Yet despite your insinuations that one must be a "real" Palestinian in order to be able to offer one’s opinion about Palestinian issues, you simply ignore what a very "real" Palestinian has told you. In fact, it seems that you summarily dismiss anyone and everyone who may hold even a slightly different opinion than you do -- even when someone like my husband, who has far more personal experience with Palestine than you do (I am sorry to be blunt, but it’s the truth, despite your oblique references to unmentioned experiences -- he’s lived there all his life, and you admittedly haven’t) steps up to tell you you're way off here.

I don't know if you have some kind of issue with Arabs who marry non-Arabs. I would hope not, although I have seen you make some not-so-veiled condescending remarks about this subject in the past. But you need to come to terms with the fact that not all non-Arab spouses are ignorant, gullible ninnies with little or no clue of Arab culture and history, even when compared to yourself. In fact you should know this from reading some of the extremely knowledgeable posts from non-Arab spouses on this very forum.

You have presented yourself on VJ time and again as some kind of credible scholar on Islam and the "true" meanings of Qur'an and Hadith -- what the texts say and what they don't say, which Hadith are reputable, etc. I am certainly not an expert in this subject, nor have I ever claimed to be one, and it never occurred to me to question you about your opinions in these matters (although I could ask my father-in-law, as he IS an expert who is well known in Palestine.)

But since you prefaced this discussion with a blanket statement about Arab media "vilifying Jews" and "calling for the destruction of Israel" – a generalization which I know to be untrue -- I spoke out about it. I then accepted your explanation that it wasn’t what you meant. But you just couldn’t move on without stooping to some supercilious remarks about me “just” being married to a Palestinian.

Now, it is revealed that you don't even understand Arabic, as you required a translation of what my husband wrote – and note, this was in plain and simple Arabic, not the elaborate language of Qur'an or the more polished language of Arab media. Yet you profess to have done extensive research in Islamic studies.

This is a very interesting development, to say the least.

I like to discuss issues without personal attacks – it’s quite childish -- and I think my record on this board shows that. As your VJ record shows, however, you continue to insist on making personal attacks a large part of your “arguments” on various topics across the board. Well, this one blew up in your face, too.

Who said I was FROM Palestine anyway? My great grandfather and grandfather were. I said I'm Palestinian, and I am. Keep your voluntary immigrant stories out of this. We didn't leave voluntarily, we were pushed out. There's a difference. Think of it as if China finally gave up Tibet so the Dali Lama could go home. Much more like that than Europeans escaping Europe on their own. Lots of you went to Palestine, btw.

Their ancestors may have come from there... but they were born and raised here in America... that makes them American... same if I have children thay would be born here in the USA that would make them American... yes there Mother would be Scottish but they would be American... and if they had children of their own in years to come they to would be american and so on and so on.... they could not claim a british passport they would have no right to live and work in the UK and would not be classed as being Scottish/British....

Kez

Now that you mentioned it...

My family came to Brazil in 1924 from Portugal, and my dad was born to Portuguese immigrants.

I consider myself half-Brazilian and half-Portuguese (even though I found out recently that I am portuguese on both sides of the family), and (for now) I haven't ever been to Portugal.

Should I stop considering myself half-Portuguese? And what should I do with my Portuguese passport? Throw it away?





You're right. I will give up on my Portuguese citizenship...

It was good while it lasted...

Now, it is revealed that you don't even understand Arabic, as you required a translation of what my husband wrote – and note, this was in plain and simple Arabic, not the elaborate language of Qur'an or the more polished language of Arab media. Yet you profess to have done extensive research in Islamic studies.

Who translated it, where and when? I'm sure lots of folks want a copy.

Just because I wasn't going to respond to the nastiness on the thread means nothing. You guys had your chance to PM me and see if I speak Arabic or not; I invited you, you didn't show. Give it up. It's old news now.

You are no more Palestinian than I am Greman.... My Great Grandfather was driven out of Gremany so dont start your ###### on me... you are american of palestinian desent... that is all nothing more...

And as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping you moving to Palestine at this time if you feel so close to that culture.... then you will be an American in Palestine... wont that be fun.

Kez

i've looked and i can't find a gremany on the map.

Isn't it right next to Boland?

It was a test to see how well you were reading my posts....


Kez

My sons are half Yemeni (their father immigrated here 15 yrs ago) should I tell them to stop telling ppl they're Yemeni?

it really threw me when you said greman. for some reason, i first thought it said gremlin.

According to several here, yes. Who needs for Arabs to keep being Arabs? After all, they may find themselves being Americans in Palestine, and wont that be fun.

Will someone please post a copy of the translation WOM mentioned? I must have misplaced mine, darn it!

don't hold your breath

Isn't it on the "Shame on you for not being from Palestine" forum???

one can only read that after they've atoned for their sin of being born that way.

I almost snotted out my cereal on that one Be careful, I'm eating

If Green-eyed girl considers herself Palestinian, who is anyone here to contradict that? Who here knows her family history, what ties they keep with Palestine, how often they visit, if they still have family there, etc. I'm willing to be no one.

I'm of mixed European descent, like many North Americans, but I consider myself solely Canadian. I actually get sort of annoyed when people ask me where I'm from/what I am. That's just me though, doesn't mean everyone has to do it. For my family, we don't maintain any kind of ties with our European heritage, we don't even know if we have any family over there, so it wouldn't really make sense to say "I'm German" or whatever. I grew up in a small town that is almost predominantly Portuguese. The kids I went to school with were mostly 1st and 2nd generation Canadians, but all of them considered themselves Portuguese first, even though none of them had ever been there. If a family immigrates, but holds close the ties to the country they left, it's easy to see how even generations later could consider themselves to be from that country. Particularly if they were forced out of said country.

If my husband and I stay in the US and have children here, by right of my citizenship they will also be Canadian citizens. They will be able to have a Canadian passport, and even if they never live there, I would hope they hold Canada close to them. The same would go for if we moved to Canada, they would be US citizens by right of my husband being a USC. No matter what, our kids will be citizens of both countries and will be raised to think of themselves that way.

Oh.... there a good Idea... I could apply for a Gremlin passport then I could move to a bit of land and put up a fence and call it Gremlinstine.... Just think there could then be people 100 years from now that will live in America and claim to be Gremlins.....

Kez

Thank you!




You're too late. Thousands of Gremlins imigrated to the US in the 1970s from the AMC.

Just... stay... away... from... water....

Pleeeeease!

It's really too bad that everyone seems to have skipped over your excellent post and completely missed the beginning of what prompted all of the current posts regarding nationality.

I am of Italian descent, for example. I would never claim to be an authority on Italian culture or poltics simply because of where my ancestors came from. And neither would I try to discount someone else's well-informed opinion on Italy simply because they were not of Italian descent.

Back on topic "Issues you may need to discuss with your MENA SO'.............

How many years til you want a return visit to your country?
Will you be filing for any of your family to come over after you get citizenship?
Do you soak your rice for 30 minutes before cooking?
What kind of empolyment will you seek upon receiving your EAD?
Do you want to live in a city or the country?

Anybody else have issues that should have been discussed?

Jackie

There was a debate/discussion on this in off topic awhile ago. Many Americans, including myself, want to know where our families originated from. And it is important to us. Just because I was born in America does not mean I should be ignorant of my family's heritage. I am many different nationalities combined, while being a USC born in the US. It seemed in the discussion in off topic that British people seemed to have the most annoyance with us Americans who like to say what nationalities we are. Well that's just how some of us are, and you can't tell us we aren't allowed to say, for instance..I'm Italian, Czech, Ukranian, Scottish, English, etc yes I am a lot of things. lol.

My future children will be half Indian. Just because they are going to be born in the US are they supposed to pretend they aren't Indian since they weren't born there? No. So you can argue your side as much as you want, many of us Americans will not ignore our ancestry. America is a newer country, we all came from somewhere (unless you are 100% native american) and it's important to know where.

ETA: Of course I am no expert of any of the nationalities that I am, because it's all so mixed and some info is lost to the past.

I missed nothing, I was there. If someone doesn't want rank pulled on them, they shouldn't try to pull rank on others. If I do it, I can take it and it is sooo over with yesterday's news. Nothing gained by raising a rotting corpse, although there will always be those who try. If this is the comeback strategy, it's lame.

Also how often would you like to visit? For how long? Can I come with?


Would you like them to visit? Which family members would you like to come over for a visit? How often? How long? If it's the parents, how will we pay for health insurance for them?



Any food cooking peculularities? Like rubbing flour on chicken, then letting it sit with pepper and salt to remove the chicken smell?

Definately roll with the punches when it comes to cooking. Even if something seems illogical, if it makes him feel better, I do it.




Even more in depth, what kind of neighborhood? We live in a fairly large city (especially for a small town girl like myself), but we live in a more residential area. Tamer really really really misses seeing people walking outside, so we're hopefully going to move to a busier part of town, or another city that is busy like Chicago.

Absolutely.

I agree, Christina.

Your children may even consider themselves more Indian because their father is a new immigrant. He'll be able to teach them more about his heritage, language and perhaps they'll be able to spend some time in India. I'm from a mixed heritage (Beligian, German, and Irish). I barely know anything of these countries/cultures. My sons have learned tons from their father. They can speak the language and have visited his native country a couple times (once for a 7 month stretch). They're very proud of their heritage. That's why they consider themselves Yemeni first and foremost.

Sorry, Jackie, I'm trying to think of some possible questions so we can get back on topic.

You conveniently left out the part where I said if I do it, I can take the blowback. I also don't need myhusband to show up to defend me. That, I can do myself.

Been wondering how long it would take the WOMBUDS to gather.

This is not unusual. My father was the first born here. My mom is an immigrant too. The "old country" is too close to home to forget.

Not only defend you, but also put to shame the other woman...

To be honest, I don't know what WOM was talking about, but the shame and the arabic part was ridiculous....

ETA: I don't know what she was talking about because it was in arabic.

I am just expressing my own opinion here.

I really don't see why the repeated digs and taunts are necessary.

ETA: I don't know what she was talking about because it was in arabic.

You didn't see the translation either?

Opine away, jenn. Excuse us while we have some fun.

Oh, and I expressed my opinion too.

I don't have access to that forum.

I only have access to the "Shame on you for not being from Portugal" forum...

To the newcomers reading this thread for the first time --

Welcome to the Middle East.

Americans, beware!

Aren't most people here USCs?

good question???

And is it not dangerous for them?

OT posters fight on a daily basis, no one is in there saying Welcome to Hickville.

People don't fight on the Brazil thread...

That is why I have to get out to get some action...

We'll be right over

I was already there today and got a recipe for a yummy looking chocolate cake.

Why is this thread so... quiet???

all the good jabs have been used or the calm before the storm

Ok after 5 pages of reading this, I'm really suprised this hasn't been locked yet. I'm done.