I am not a real bright guy...but I do read these forums extensively. The common thing I have figured out by reading these forums where a relationship has gone sour is that the petitioner chose to ignore signs. These signs varied from enormous, to tiny...but nevertheless they were signs that the relationship was wrong.

I am in no way saying any of you are dumb, as we all know love can blind others even if the love is not returned mutually completely. Please take time to sit back and do a reality check of your situation and ask yourself these questions my brothers and sisters:

1) Are there any unexplained events? These can be events that have played out to be very simple…but by querying the individual, they seem more complex than the obvious answers would be.

2) How much money does someone really need? Example: “Our house needs a new roof”,”Father is sick”, “Mother is sick”, “Both mother and father are sick”. You must follow up and check these things out when you go back to see your fiancé(e). Another Example: A friend of mine was engaged and they kept asking him for money for the roof, father, and mother sick thing. He went to see her and found out the roof was never repaired…and mother and father are alcoholics, and were living lavishly different from when he first met them on his first trip.

3) Measure the situation before you meet them, and after you meet them. Usually a spread of 2 visits or more.

4) If it is too good to be true, then either A) you are lucky as hell, or you are being ripped off by either GC, or someone that just wants money. Remember to do the reality check.

5) Tell a very close friend about your situation and progress of your petition or whatever. It is always good to have a sounding board especially if you trust them completely. They may see something way before you do. Don’t discredit them either…remember, they are your friend, what do they have to gain from ruining your situation? Most likely nothing if they are your close friend right?

6) Intuition. Everybody has it….researchers say that intuition is 95% accurate. This is a sixth sense that we are all born with…listen to it. If it smells like crap, tastes like crap, looks like crap…well….it is crap.

I only wish to help my fellow brother and sister out there. I don’t wish harm on you, or wish to challenge your judgments of your relationships…I just want you to be careful because I care. I wrote this with all good intentions to help.

Pretty solid advice

You seam to be assuming that everyone is sending money to their SO family..... not a good thing to assume there are meny more couples on here where no money is ever sent to help the family... I cant quite imagine how my family or most families in the UK, Western europe, Canada would react if my now husband was to try and offer support they would just say no thanks...

I think alot of your answers are region spicific and dont apply to all area's of the world.... but in general its good advice..

Hmmm. Lurker provided the comments on monetary exchange as one of the various signs. I think his post is welcome and sound!

You had a bad experience?

BINGO!!!

"The common thing I have figured out by reading these forums where a relationship has gone sour is that the petitioner chose to ignore signs." <---yes this say that I have experience this issue right?

You're forgetting one thing.. sometimes things go "sour" after a marriage occurs.

It's one thing to detect possible fraudulent intent prior to a marriage. Once you've married someone, there's only one way out, when things start to head south on you, and that's the path of divorce.

That usually involves legal representation, access to the legal system, financial cost and a host of other things (including an analysis of the I-864 support aspect).

Your advice is interesting "pre-" marriage, when the relationship is just taking place, but once you're married... ya know what???

It can turn as sour as hell and you still have to deal with the ramifications thereof.

-- Dan, that "been there, done that" kind of guy...

...or, annulment, if deceptive practices were involved.

My lawyer(s) told me to try and PROVE deception in order to get an annulment would be a long, costly and drawn out process, and would eventually come down to my word against hers.

Both of them told me that it was far far simpler, cleaner and less expensive to just divorce her flat-out and let her worry about proving deception, or the lack thereof, to the USCIS.

For me to try and prove in court any deception on her part, basically would have taken a LOT more work (and money) on my part, and still might not even result in an annulment being granted.

Of course, if you have proof of deception... that's a different story, but rock-solid evidentiary proof of that can be very difficult to come by indeed.

-- Dan

No question, indeed. That is unless you have emails written from an ex to another individual, that basically spells out the whole scheme

Or just be plain poor like my husband..... if I was after money I would have dumped him before the wedding

I always tell my fiance I don't have any money. She says she loves me anyway.

Ditto for me. But sometimes the problem in the Phil. and other countries is that "poor" between there and here is a significant level of scale. So it still may lead to unrealistic expectations if serious conversations about the "reality" of life in America aren't had. In my case, I have probably painted a dimmer picture of the situation then actually exists, but I'd rather her be surprised in a positive fashion than in a gut-check, "this really sucks" fashion.

My lawyer said that my situation sounded like fraud, however the burden of proof was on me to prove it, and this, she said is very difficult to do. One thing to maybe look at is to see if there are other grounds for annullment in ones state. It was too late for me, as I was already married almost 2 years, but in my state one can petition for annullment within the first year, for specific reasons.

Ya, me too, so my fiance will be pleasantly surprized.

I think some of the people here jumped into a relationship with pretty much a stranger, and when I read these people are getting divorced I don't wonder much 'cus although some might work out, sometimes talking online for 2 months, meeting once and filling a petition and getting married within 6 months since the first time you talked online is something bound to go wrong, as people are so much different in real life (most of the times) and since the couple didn't leave enough time to really see through each other and learn how they really were, as well as see any signs that might of been there.

But yes, it's sad that in some of the cases the relationship has been going forever and the signs were all there and still the abused chose to believe nothing was going on.

Makes me sad to read all the divorce cases here but then again, divorce rates are really high in same country marriage, why would it be different in our type of marriage?

aahhhh.....the pre-marriage signs.....

reminds me of South Africa when I was visiting a friend for 9 weeks.....met her cousin and fell in love! We had plans of being together and gettting married down the road. He had the opportunity for a J1 visa and took it. I thought that was great as he didn't depend on me to get him here.....well.....then the "I don't have the money" phone call. I wired him $2000 (fool!).

He arrived, and 3 days later he said "Let's get married this week." My inner voice said "Nooooooooooo." A month and a half later I was asking him to move out.

So in the end I was heartbroken, out $600 (yeah, believe it or not he paid back $1400) but so thankful, even through the pain, that I didn't marry him.

Now don't get me wrong, I loooooove South Africa!

As everyone can read on VJ, the heart wants what it wants. Outsiders will read a situation and think 'omG what a train wreck!' but the person in the situation cannot see it. You can point things out, but they will be explained or dismissed away. Then if you persist, you're a troll. But at the end of the day, there are people here right now that are being duped, and they will read this thread and think 'thank God that's some other schmo and not me cos my relationship is solid'

Yes, sound advice...but advice that will really fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes) to the ones who need it the most.

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?t...n&tid=13828

Some classic examples of the genre.

well, at the end of the day there's a sucker in every crowd.....pass the snake oil.....and jesus ain't got nothin' ta'da witit'

Hi, I hope Im not late to post my comments here.
You are right, some guys dont really care about the early warning signs but instead go one and take a risk and then after all, get hurt or fail in a relationship. They think that the girls they are loving are worthy, a great woman to spend the rest of his life with, a girl who makes his dreams come true even there are red flags already.

First rule in LDR relationship is never ever send MONEY to the person you just met on the net, you barely know and if you havent meet her and her family and friends. Some girls use men for money, but of course there are also good girls around who will never ask for money. There are also some girls who chats with million of men and are sweet and caring and promises to all of them.

If you see this kind of red flags, be aware now.
I heard a lot of this kind of scammers in the net. Some just use men for Greencard or ticket to the USA. SOme will marry old men and then divorced them when they are in the US already and find a young guy.

If you really in love with your girl be sure to know her background. What her intentions. If she insist you to give her money because of this and that...And if you are the only one making effort for your relationship, that is a red flags. IF a girl is really in love with you, she will make an effort to call you, to say how much she care for you, spend some money to send you messages everyday and not count the money she spent with the message for you. That he dont care how much money do you have or you are just ordinary and poor citizen of your country. Because love is unconditional and not base on material things and money. be aware.

thats my two cents.

Good post. But, isn't it possible to CREATE red flags by looking for them too hard or over-reading situations? Things appear as you make them appear. If you're unsure and insecure, you'll find a red flag at every corner...even if it isn't really a red flag. And, being constantly suspect is not a good way to start a relationship. Granted, when you are separated from the one you love, suspicion can easily ensue. But, you have to draw the line somewhere. Committing to someone for life, for marriage, takes a significant amount of trust. And, when you give trust, you inherently take risk.

I've noticed that a lot of VJ'ers suggest that asking for money is one of the biggest red flags. I think someone should point out that it doesn't always have to be. If you met online or through a marriage broker, then perhaps the request of financial support may be more likely to be a true red flag. But, in my case for example, I spent months with my fiancee, really got to know her, fall in love with her, care about her and her well-being, and even appreciate her concern and support for her family (my mother and father both passed a few years ago). Lirio is my partner...my life...if she or her family are ever in need, I'm there for them...gladly. Similarly, when we were together, I went through a tough financial period and she was there for me...imagine THAT! So, when her or her family hit bumps in the road, it doesn't bother me at all to pitch in where I can and I don't consider it a red flag. If it is...if I am being dupped...then that's the chance I'll take for love. Worse case scenario - she's BS and totally using me and I don't have a clue. Best case scenario - she loves me, we're partners, we take care of each other, and we're going to have a great life together. For me, it's worth the risk!

To be completely honest, in all my VJ reading, I've seen SO many scenarios of broken hearts and hidden agendas that doubt has crossed my mind on occassion. And I hate that, becuase it really isn't justified. So, all I'm saying to you, my VJ brothers and sisters, is take what you read with a grain of salt, search your soul for what you truly believe to be the situation, and, if your heart tells you all is right, take the risk and be willing to accept the result...whatever that may be.

I sincerely hope that every one of you build a solid, lifelong relationship with your partner. But, statistically, that can't be...some of you will experience heartbreak...but that will only make you stronger.

First of all I wanna say my case was TOTALLY an EXCEPTION..I met my husand online just one month we talked online and then we married 4 days after we met face to face ..But I know that was total madness and now after being married for 14 months ,very happily married I thank god I listened to my heart ..and I married him I love No I adore my husband now more and more everyday we never argue ...our financial situation now is much better than he was living alone ..even though he is the one that works and iam now pregnant and just studying ..But with love and good communication and TRUST any thing is possible .
I wanna tell you there was no single moment I ever doubted anything my husband said to me before we married in contrast I felt "strangely " very safe and my heart never had any doubt about him at all ..all people around me keep crticizing me and him for marrying that quick and my friedns and people I don't even know kept saying what if and what if etc
But honestly my best friends did support me because they saw that My husband did really love me and how much I love him and as someone said before if YOU inside you have any single doubt ..then be sure this doubt DOES EXIST ..
from my friends experinece and different situations in my life I really believe now if you have a doubt crossed ur mind about the man or woman you are dating so be sure "it's there" and you are just trying to justify it..

US citizens can be scammers and psychos too. I used to volunteer for a battered women shelter - you won't believe how many immigrants are abused by their USC spouses. It is scary. No one deserves to be treated like many of them are, thank goodness for VAWA and battered spouse waivers...

I agree and can add to this, I met my fiancee while she was studying here in the UK and never wanted her to leave, for the last 3 1/2 years we have visited each other every 3 months on average and stayed for between 2 weeks and 3 months every time.

I asked her to marry me because I believed she was the "one", not because it was either an easy way for us to try and be "normal" or because i particularily WANTED to live in the US and she was the conduit.

I just wanted to be with my fiancee forever.

During our engagement a job offer and came through and suddenly she had a higher income than I. Originally she was going to come to the UK because i had the better job, but that changed around so we changed our plans and stoppped looking at the UK and went for a US visa.

Im not looking down on people who have had short relationships or suggesting those are purely based around getting a green card but as the original poster said, warning bells have to go off in some situations surely? If you are believing that the entry to the US is more important than being with you then its hard but the warning signs are already there.

My fiancee was more than willing to move to the UK because the most important thing was us being together for the rest of our lives, then things changed. Such is life.

Who knows what the future holds, and as before, im not suggesting it will be all roses and rainbows with us, and im certainly not "looking down my nose" at people, it's just pretty sad to read stories of people who were duped here. I only found this forum today and i felt sad for the people who had had their hearts cut out.

Peace and Love,

Teddy

Hi Lurker,

Good luck on your immigration journey. Thanks for this message thread (and yes, you are a bright guy) about your concerns that you have over "fraud marriages". I feel the same way as you do, and feel that as a concerned person, it is in good intentions to warn others about this before it is too late for them when they find out that their marriages are frauds. After all, marriage is important and should be taken seriously!

Specifically, I know of such a case of a good friend of mine, which I posted their situation on the VJ forums, expressing the similar feelings about this topic:
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry714228

Hopefully your advice and the advice from many other concerned individuals can help the situation out regarding "fraud marriages". And yes, warnings about "being careful" should be taken seriously too.

Ant