Can I have honorary CA residency?

are you trying to usurp my position in the trio?

OK, so I guess I'm blood thirsty, too, (**get out the garlic to fend me off**), because the part I keep coming back to is your assertion there are things that are clearly right/wrong black/white, and you don't see how one can create their own agreements with god, however, you seem to have done so re: extramarital relationships. This is where I question whether or not you a)understand Islam qur'anically and/or b ) are judging people who are making personal decisions just as you are, and had hoped you could explain more and not fight about who is sensitive or not.

well...can;t we make it a quartet? i'm feeling left out

I know a great deal of Muslims and I don't recall a single revert telling me that they knew every detail about Islam when they reverted. I know for sure that I didn't. If I didn't have the help from some of the ladies I met here in VJ (before I met others in my area) I wouldn't have gotten the answers in the beginning that I needed. Some people have been known to convert/revert after seeing just 1 act of kindness from a Muslim. They don't know ANYTHING about the faith. So there may have been a bad judgement call on what was said but is that any reason to badger a person and rip them to bits? Why not just give a simple answer and let it be that? I like everybody in this forum and I hate to see such bickering going on.

hehe do I need to put you in your corners like I did last time?? Do I need to take away the sweets that we've been sharing DON'T MAKE ME LICK THEM ALL AGAIN

also...If there are any new Muslims out there that have questions (or even those of you just considering Islam) I am happy to help you find your answers in PM anytime.

amal

I never said her question was horrible. I said that the way she was picking every word I said was not so hot.

Is it really possible to go lower than the place you three tend to stoop when you've found someone to attack? I think not swee pea. It's a shame too because alone you really seem like a genuinely nice person. I'm not a shrink but there must be a technical name for the abusive actions that come out in people when they form a gang against someone. I'll have to look it up. It's not the most attractive quality that I've seen in you for sure, and there have been some nice things that have popped out. It's a shame because it overshadows all of the good that you have in you.

Hey Jenn...want to form our own duo?

Fabulous. Now we can run rampant through VJ as "the duo"

I haven't said this yet, but now I will. I dont' believe for a second Doodle doesn't know alcohol is haram, I fully believe she was trying to get a little feisty with Sarah, and originally I didn't see it as much more than jokey banter that has now gotten into deeper questions, which I actually don't see as a whole, are an issue to discuss.

If you know of anyone, even non-muslims, who don't know alcohol is haram in Islam, I'd like to know how they've gotten this far in life.

I have a question:

When you convert to Islam, does one not have to, hmm, go through a process, or talk to a religious leader, or be in a group or something? I'm just curious; I'm Catholic, and if you want to be Catholic, you have several months of classes in the faith in order to learn about it.

How did you convert? Is it as simple as waking up one day and deciding to be Muslim? Or do you have to do anything?

No I don't see you as bloodthirsty at all. You've asked me questions with respect and I appreciate that.

No I'm not judging anyone. I don't know how I can explain this again. Yes I see black white in things that I have been shown as far as hadiths and all of that. Does that mean that I always do the right thing? No of course not. I'm human and I err. I see my chatting with Usama as haram. That's pretty cut and dry with me but I'm doing it because it's very difficult for me to stop something so emotional. I'm not creating an agreement with God here though...I know it's wrong. Does that make any sense to you?

What I understand about Islam is that Allah is the one and only God and that Muhammed, pbuh, is His messenger. I also understand that Jesus , pbuh, is not God. This took me years to figure out. Once I got to that point I was able to say my shahada, masha Allah alhumdullilah.

Should I have studied every hadith before that point? Of course not. If I know that the Quran is from Allah and that Muhammed is the final messenger why should I wait? Sure there are things that will be difficult for me, such as my struggle to wear hijaab, but I am trying my best. Nothing is easy. What is important, what I was told by many of my muslim friends was that the main thing for me to focus on is to read the Quran, to say my five prayers and to fast when I should fast. Beyond that it's a learning experience and I think if one were to look at every single solitary muslim they would find that the majority do not know each hadith that is written. If they did they'd all be scholars.

What abusive actions? Do you think people really believed you were trying to learn if alcohol was haram? No, it was clear you were trying to call Hicham out. You stated yourself it is black and white and have posted before about knowing Muslims don't drink. If you had just said "I am riding you Sarah as you ride me", this never would have developed into this. Instead you tried to say you were learning. Then you go on about how it is black and white and how doing something clearly haram would not sit right with you. Then you went on to drown in your own pool of hypocrisy when you called your own boyfriend haram.

Now we are abusers because it backfired. Guess what? The victim game isn't fooling anyone either.

No it's not like going through RCIA at all. You have to believe that there is only one God (no trinity) and that Muhammed, pbuh, is His final messenger. If you are Christian you also have to believe that Jesus, pbuh, is not God. One you truly believe this in your heart you can say the shahada which is basically just stating the above. Then you are muslim.



You believe what you want to believe to justify your actions. That's cool. I know what my intentions are and I was wrong to think that I could have a normal conversation with Sarah without it turning into something like this. A few days ago she said it was boring in here so I guess now she has her fun. Shame that it means piling on someone whose intentions were not as you think, but you are the one who has to go to sleep with yourself at night. Good luck with that.

So there's no list of rules to memorize. Maybe the dating thing is more cultural than religiously mandated? More than one way to skin a cat, as it were? I don't know a lot of Muslims, but the ones that I do know are all women who are doctors and don't wear hijab but still seem observant (with not eating pork, & ramadan.)

In any case, I don't think anyone's attacking you. You needled Sarah, she needled back, and for the love of little apples, if someone has a drinking problem, they don't order a damned coffee.

Dunno what coffee has to do with it but thanks for your input. I disagree that I needled her. Asked a simple question is all. Normally when she starts things I tend to ignore the bullying but tonight I dont' feel like backin' down. Too many good people have been driven from this board for this very behaviour and quite frankly it is sickening to me.

I don't have to justify anything. You can read through this thread, just as anyone else can. Can you sleep at night claiming your question about alcohol and Hicham was only because "sometimes I'm confused on what is haram and what is halal"?

And, swee pea, I get to sleep with my husband at night

BTW - the judgmental thing doesn't suit you

Ahhh Doodle first you say you were not judging hicham then you say "I guess that really hit a sore spot with you". Like JP said it isn't a sore spot since we went to the pub together, clearly. I see you trying to make it into something it's not but that isn't working for you because it certainly wasn't a sore spot. Why else would I post what we did? Yikes.

Anyways hon, I think peezey and JP and Bosco and MBP have summed everything up so that it is clear enough for you to understand.

So if you're emotionally attached to something it's too hard to give up so that's ok. What if you're emotionally attached to drugs? That's ok though, cause you were emotionally attached to drugs before you converted, right?


Hicham is laughing so hard at me explaining what happened in the last 4 pages. Doodle you're a real hoot! Hicham is wondering if you are joking about all of this but I had to explain that no, she just wants to double check and make sure she can't have anal sex in Egypt this December.









Nope, it doesn't work for her does it?

I guess the old saying is true, if you repeat something often enough people start to believe it.

doodle, in the pic she posted, there's a beer and a coffee. You've been insinuating that the only reason Sarah's getting antsy is because of a hidden alcohol problem.

Oh I"m glad he's laughing. Thats so sweet. I don't recall bringing anal sex into this conversation. When I brought it up it was a joke, but then you already acknowledged that you didn't understand that. That's ok.

Actually things were clear before JP, Bosco, peezey and MBP explained it to me. Thanks for your concern though.

If this wasn't a sore spot then you obviously were just looking for a fight then. I hope I've supplied your entertainment for the night. Good luck tomorrow since I won't be here to pick on. I'm sure you'll find another victim though and someone for Hicham to laugh at.

Wait....Peezy, JP, Bosco, me and Sarah....that's not a trio. That a quintet

But seriously i have joined a duo with Jenn so i won;t make the next world tour

Actually I received more than one email today from people stating what I said above. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.



She didn't post it. Someone else did. Perhaps you could read through the thread before commenting?

Like I said, alot of people have convinced themselves this is true.

Will you be drinking wine on that tour ?

With good reason I"m finding out tonight. It's a shame though because one of them was a really good poster and never said a bad word to anyone.

I wasn't commenting necessarily about the alcohol. I was commenting on the comments of how she should keep her questions off the forums (in a round-about way) and how she should only get her answers via quraan and studying hadiths. While I agree that those are the best ways to learn, I wouldn't have learned near as much without the help of my friends (and of course my husband). That is what my post was based on.

Someone asked what is required to become Muslim.
(I asked my husband to help me write this so it would be correct...here goes)
You have to believe in the 5 pillars of Islam...
1. Believing in there being no God but Allah and that Prophet Mohammed is the messenger of God.
2. Prayer
3 Fasting
4. Giving to the poor (zakat)
5. Hajj
If you believe all of these things in your heart, then you can say shahadah and become Muslim.
You can study for a long time (as I did) or you can say shahadah after learning the basics about the pillars. As long as you believe it and say shahadah...that is all that is required.
I hope that helped.

Doodle what exactly were you looking for in asking Hicham's drinking habits?

The problem I have is with your extreme levels of hypocrisy, not the question you asked.

Oh and just for a reference here is a thread from a while ago where you stated you have given up alcohol because you know it's not allowed in Islam.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=529501

Doodle if you swear to Allah right now that you didn't know that alcohol was haram then I would gladly apologize to you...

only halal wine Do you think Absolut makes a halal vodka?

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, yes. I have read that the majority think it haram but I have also read about two articles questioning it using a quote from Muhammed, pbuh, where he infers that sometimes it is good for you. Thinking that perhaps Hicham was a muslim I thought that if he did drink, which wasn't clear from what she posted, perhaps he knew more about it. I was actually hoping that she could ask him for a reference. Kinda water under the dam now though since you've already figured out what you think my intentions are.




Seems to fit you quite snugly though huh?



I swear to Allah that my statement above to Bosco is 100% truthful and I could care less if you apologize or not.

Doodle, sweetie here's a tip for ya- instead of deciding if it is ok or not drink alcohol depending on what HE does or what your fiance does or anyone else, try to formulate your own thoughts and opinions based on reading the Quran and maybe spend some time in the Mosque asking questions to the imam rather than basing your choices on Muslims who do things that fit your lifestyle but that aren't halal in the name of convenience for you.

Amal

Where did anyone say the "she should only get her answers via quraan and studying hadiths."?

My words were "If you are confused about what is halal or haram, the Qur'an is an excellent source, definitely a better choice than asking after the habits of other Muslims."

Also, I did not say friends were not a good source. But asking "does your husband drink" as a way to determine if there is some alcohol loophole (and did anyone buy this) is clearly not the best route.

I stand by my advice.

thanks but I think I'll pass on advice from someone who isn't even a muslim.

Well it's 11:38pm here in Boston and although it's been a blast regretfully I have to go to sleep. I'll miss all the hubbub since I won't post in these threads anymore but I'm sure you'll find someone else to pigpile on soon. I have faith in ya girls!

Doodle no one is judging you especially not Bosco. Sheis not one to judge. You can't call her judgemental for calling you out on something you don't want to be brought to your attention.

Pointing out your inconsistencies is judgement? You were the one who defined haram and halal. I stated repeatedly I was not even approaching those labels; however, I did point out your selective application of the things you defined.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=529501


"I know this is kind of random ( and I really should be working and not on here!!! ) but one thing I was afraid of when I converted was that I would miss drinking my wine at night. Well up until now, and it's been I think 2 1/2 months or so, I haven't even missed it!!!

The friday drinkin' beer golfing thing just made me think of that. lol"


there ya go Doodle, one of your better moments on VJ.

I don't think I was referring to your post....honestly I don't remember whose post it was (it was somewhere in the beginning of this whole ordeal). If it was you that I was speaking of, then I apologize.. I did say "(in a round about way) meaning..not 100% saying that she should stay away from asking questions in forums.... and I should have use the term "basically" instead of "only" meaning..keeping the questions to the friends to a minimum since their advice is only hearsay and not the real right and wrong. I really don't think it was your post I was commenting on though. I'm going to search and see whose post that was...

We need szsz to help us remember what pick and choose Islam is along with elaborating on boyfriend Islam.

would that be called "PC islam" then?

Are you saying my cranberry juice might not be halal this evening?

Are you saying you are drinking cranberry juice?

with a twist of lime and something that may or may not be haram.

I didn't know ice could be haram.

alright, I searched and I didn't find it... maybe it WAS your post Bosco but I hadn't gone back and re-read it before posting so I was just posting on what I remembered.. and what I thought on it at that time (I had like 8 pages to read before I posted)..... kind of a hindsight thing... It was brought up a couple times though .. and by different ppl (i think) so it could have been any of the posts I was thinking of at that time....anyway... if it saves further arguments from anybody...lets just take out the part that someone said it and lets just make it my own thoughts.... better ?

Actually, what I believe you are thinking from is from God, not the Prophet, and is in the Qur'an.

Al Baqarah 2:219

THEY WILL ASK thee about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: "In both there is great evil" as well as some benefit for man; but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring."

Actually that was a tip from Hicham telling you not to base your actions or find loopholes in Islam based on his actions. Wow who knew a beer could cause so much.

lord I hope this isn't taken wrong ... but I do have a couple serious questions about this..... Does it go further to say that it is haram? honestly, I don't know as I don't have a quraan to look at. If it doesn't go on further to say that it is haram, do you think it may mean that you shouldn't drink alcohol unless it is for like..say.. medicinal use .. or for something in that category????? I hope this doesn't seem like a "mocking" question. I really am curious to know.... thanks

(for anybody else who may try to pick me apart...no, I'm not going to base my drinking on her answer as I haven't touched a drop of alcohol in 10 years and have no desire to start now)