[color=#3333FF][size=3]My fiancee has a 6 year old daughter from her previous marriage. Does anyone know if his permission is required for her to leave the country and move here to the US with her mother, my fiancee? They live in Russia and my fiancee said that his permission is required, but I have not seen anything posted about that, or perhaps I just missed it. Any help would be appreciated! Thanx

If she has full custody and has documents to prove it then no. Otherwise she does need permission.

She seems to think that since he has parental rights then she doesn't have full custody. He is allowed to see her every other weekend for 1 and a half hours, but only in her presence. He can't take her on his own. He doesn't make any effort to see her or to be involved in anyway in her life. My fiancee just says that the laws there are different, they are weighed heavily in the father's favor. So she seems to think she doesn't have full custody. That doesn't make sense to me since he is only allowed to see her in my fiancee's presence.

Does she have court documents stating who has custody? It would have to state that she has sole custody. If it is shared or she does not have it then she needs permission for moving and the passport as far as I know.

She most likely has Joint Custody with her as the Primary caregiver.
It doesn't matter if the dad sees the child once every other weekend. She will still need to get a letter filied with a lawyer or notarized stating he is giving permision to let her move the child out of the country. She will also need his permission to obtain a Passport for the child.
She will also need to have her Custody papers to show as well.

Was she married to the father?

Sorry, answer is yes.....usually he has custody than, just wondering why he is only able to see the child in her presence. That sounds like no custody... She should try to get his permission - if he does not care it should not be an issue?

Good luck, Anja

Often if it is supervised custody then only one parent has custody.

Which one of you guys is familiar with russian law?

You can argue about it all day, but if none of you are familar with it then the arguement is pointless..

she best go call the court if she s not sure if she got full custody. true, russian law might be diffrent. i got full custody without even beeing ask at court. here in switzerland its rare to get shared one. it really sounds like the custody is only on her, because hes allowed to see the kid only so rarely and with not alone. strange. i got full custody on my kid, and the father is still allowed to see her every second week for 8 h. and even holidays. important as well, does she has a passport for her? or can she issue one? my ex as well is not intrested at the kid, but i am sure,if it was on him to accept, he would deny. but inher case, i guess, if it comes to the point that he has to sign, he might sign, otherwise the kid must stay with him, and i guess, coz he isnt intrested anyway, he would sign.. so, all a matter to find out.

Like I said.. this argument is pointless unless someone is familiar with Russian law.

For example, in Brazil, permission must be granted from both parents, regardless of who has custody.

I am somewhat familiar with Ukrainian law on this point and it is probably very similar to Russian law. Your fiancee will have to get a notarized letter from her ex-husband stating that he is granting permission for the child to permanently immigrate to the US. She will also need to bring copies of the ex-husband's photo page and signature from his passport. According to the embassy in Kiev, there is no special wording that needs to appear on the notarized statement. Just make sure that you have an original Russian version with full legal names and you have an official English translation for the embassy at the interview.

Write an email to the embassy in Moscow to make sure.

If he won't give permission you'll have to go to court. If he is not involved in the child's life it's generally easy for her to get custody for a few hundred dollars and it takes a few months. If he is involved, there's no telling which way it will go.

In my case, my fiancee's ex-husband had always said he would give permission, but when it came time to sign the papers, he wanted $15,000 cash.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

He states his Fiance said that the fathers permission is required. Were going on that asumption. He didn't ask if there's someone who knows Russian law.

If its pointless then why are you even posting.

I'm just trying to get my ex's permission to get my daughter's passport. He knows it depends on his signature on that form and if it will cause problems, make life difficult for me then he'll do it. That's his one last vestige of control and he's very reluctant to give it up...control freaks are like that. Sigh....joint custody sucks....

I am from Australia and had sole custody of both my children. Even though my ex saw the kids very infrequently, I still needed his permision to take the kids out of Australia to reside in another country. We had to go back to court to get the documentation legalised. My understanding is that your fiance will be asked for proof of this at her interview. I know I was asked to prove that I had legal permission from the kids father for them to reside in another country. I'd advise your fiance to see a solicitor ASAP.

Its the same in the UK - tho really its what the US embassy/immigration NEEDS (which in most cases seems to be a notartised letter stating permission is given, where parents were married) not what the country of origin law is - tho in the case of the UK its the same thing, lol

I do not really have any advice but we are more or less going through the same thing in Brasil - we unfortunately are learning as we go. My fiancee has always had custody, and paid for everything for hr son but we still need his signature. We think he will sign very soon . but if he does not then we will get a lawyer or she will talk to a judge to get his passport, she feels very confident either way.

I think every country and even every case is always different. Hope the best to all of you that are going through this type of hell. Like it is alreaady hard enough.

jaylen_brit is correct in saying that this what US Immigration NEEDS. It doesn't really matter what the law in your fiance's country states. The US Govt. wants to ensure that the K1 Visa holder has the legal right to take a child to reside in the US.

You contridict yourself fairly badly here... You state it doesn't matter what the law is in the fiance's country and then say the US government wants to ensure the Visa holder has the legal right to take the child. They have to have legal rights in their country.

So yah, this really has everything to do with Russia's laws and nothing to do with anywhere else.

WOW!! I came home from work and was surprised by the amount of replies. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your help, not just with this questions, but with all advice/experiences I've read about on here.

Anyway, she doesn't have a passport for her daughter, her daughter is included on my fiancee's passport. As for her ex, yeah, my finacee and I have discussed the money/bribery thing...lol If it comes to that. But I think he will be happy to not have his wages garnished anymore for the child support and will willingly sign any papers put in front of him. My fiancee is less convinced, and of course she does know him far better than I do.

The funny thing about this question is that until recently she was the manager of a marriage agency and even she doesn't know exactly what the answer is. I've told her to write something up with the help of lawyer friends, and present it too him ASAP. If we don't need it, fine, if we do, well, we will have it available. Also I'd like to know RIGHT NOW if he is going to cause any problems, rather than find out later that he will do all he can to make her life miserable...again

Again, thanks for everyone's advice, and if there is someone with this same experience with a Russian fiancee I would love to hear about your experience. Especially if it was successful!

bwaaderant,
You might want to do a search on www.rwguide.com. It's more focused on FSU issues and I remember reading a few stories about this situation on that site.

Okay, thanx! I will be waking my fiancee in a few hours with her wake up call and she will want to know what I have found out. Did I mention that not only am I her fiance, but I am also her concierge?? lol I'm much more reliable than her alarm clock, and I love listening to her sleepy voice when I wake her up. I miss being with her. :-((

Legal right can mean sole custody. In Canada if I have sole custody I require nothing from their father.

Ive'd read in a book about custody of the minor child. Although the mother is the primary custodian, she must get the written permission from the father so that it can pass through immigration with no problems.

GOOD LUCK..

sorry, but it still depends totaly from wich country the child comes, lived, the embassy of the interview will be. i am from switzerland and i informed myself now completly. the court where i was divorced, 2 diffrent lawyers: IF THE MOTHER OF THE KID HAS SINGLE CUSTODY, IT MEANS AS WELL SINGLE RESIDENTIAL RIGHT, SO SHE CAN GO WITH THE KID WHEREVER SHE WANTS.
i mailed the embassy, and they sayed nothing about agreement from the father. so, finally, it really depends all about the law of the country where the kid, fiancee, father, ect.. comes from. it makes sense, then, if there is a problem, the father ( in my case) will go to the court here in switzerland to get the kid, and the law will count from here.

Even though I have full custody of my son his father has parental responsability (yeah right aint that supposed to mean he pays child support hahaha), since I had court papers showing I had full custody I did draw up a permission to leave document for my Ex to sign (which he did after a talk with our son) just incase it was needed.
Me saying I wanted childsupport and more access for my son to see his dad seemed to do the trick and he signed as he didnt want any more finacial burden (new family/home etc he has with his fiance)

It was one of the first things that the embassy asked for when I was handing over my sons stuff at our interview.

Donna

I kind of figured it had everything to do with the laws of the country you are trying to enter.....If immigration ask for written permission from the other parent then so be it....

Sheesh That's extortion!

I thank you all for you advice, it has given us a lot to think about. I emailed the embassy and ask them if the permission is required. Their reply was that we should get it just in case it's asked for. What kind of answer is that?? There is no requirement for it, but the case officer might ask for it? So it's up to him/her?? My fiancee says that Russian law doesn't require the permission, but they still might ask for it at the point of departure. What???

Jiminy Christmas! No one seems to know, even people who have already gone through the process....lol Some were asked for it, others weren't. Hello, Embassy, can we have a final decision made on this subject?? Anyway, it's seems more people didn't need it as opposed to those who did need it. We've decided, rightly or wrongly, to go through this process and try to get the visa and her on a plane without his permission. She has told me stories about him, and I don't think that he will be too eager to sign any papers. And personally I think she is afraid to ask him, he has already attacked her and her mother once, in front of HIS child. Her mother broke his nose, hee hee, and the police laughed at him when he tried to report it as an assault.

My fiancee's brother and his friends have volunteered to convince her ex to sign the paper, but I don't know anything about that. I'd rather not go that route, I'd rather do things above board and legally. But, hmm, sometimes "ya gotta do, what ya gotta do", I don't mean physical violence or threats, I mean getting her, and her daughter, out of there without his permission. I think he does have a right to know that his daughter has left the country, even if he couldn't care less about her. But if we are successful then we shall send him a letter basically saying "oh, by the way, your daughter now lives in America". That probably means they will never be able to visit Russia again, but my fiancee feels that is no great loss.

Anyway, wish us luck, and if there is anyone who went through the Embassy in Moscow, and your fiancee had a child, I would still like to hear your thoughts and experience. Thanx all!

Bwaaderant
I wish you the best, but I think you’re making a mistake. From what I’ve read, she may not be asked for a permission statement in Russia, but she will almost certainly be asked for a permission statement at the POE. In that case they’ll be denied entry, she’ll have to take a long depressing flight back to Russia and face her ex anyway, you’ll have to file another K1/K2, and wait another 6 months. I just don’t think a 5% chance that US Immigration is going to forget about a permission statement, is worth all the downside.

Like I’ve said before, I got lucky. But when I had problems with my fiancées ex giving permission, I traveled to Ukraine to confront him. He wanted $15,000 and I offered to put $20,000 into a college fund for his son. There was also the implied threat that asking the police to break his legs would only cost a few hundred dollars and if I had to pay for a death certificate (real or fake), I’d still have enough money leftover for a nice vacation with his ex and her son.

I think your lady needs to talk to a Russian lawyer and you should talk to a US immigration lawyer and find out about every conceivable angle to this so you both can make an informed decision. FYI, A Foreign Affair has a link to a US immigration attorney who has also practiced as a lawyer in Russia. She might be able to give you better advice.

Yeah, after reading info that people have sent to me, and reading other websites and such, I think you are right that we should get his permission after all. But I will speak to an immigration attorney and have her do the same, I don't want to go playing with fire and do something stupid that will delay this process even more. I want her here yesterday!! lol

I guess we have a conclusion............contact the embassy. The London embassy states quite clearly what's needed for the interview in London which includes the permission from the birth Father. You will need whatever the embassy you will interview at is asking for - the US do not want to facilitate kidnapping charges if they allow you to enter without the Father's permission. It's better for all concerned if you dot your i's and cross your t's. Whatever you do, try not to appear desperate to him. Good Luck.

I did contact the US Embassy in Moscow, the email I got back from them basically said "Hmm, gee, that's a good question. You should get the permission for her ex just in case the interviewing officer asks for it" That answer tells me that they don't really know, or it's not required unless the interviewing officer asks for it. Straightforwardly vague. It's not listed on the Embassy's website as being a requirement like it is on other US Embassy's in other countries. Russia didn't sign the child abduction treaty and it's not a requirement under Russian law that the ex's permission is required. But they could ask for it at the airport when she tries to leave.

So you can probably see why we're a bit frustrated. Ask 10 different people and get 12 different answers. Ask the Embassy and they just shrug their shoulders. Some people have been asked for this paper giving the ex's permission and others haven't been asked for it. We are 99.999% sure that he won't give his permission if we ask him for it. Not that he has any interest in the child. he would just deny her his permission out of spite. And we are afraid that if we do ask him for it all it will do is tip him off that she is leaving the country and he will just reach into his uncle's deep pockets, run to court, bribe the judge again, and prevent her from leaving.

We are going to talk to an immigration attorney in Russia to see what options we have, but for right now we are planning on trying to get the visa, and get her and her daughter here without his permission. That's kind of a messed up thing to do since he is her father and does have a right to know where she is, etc., but right now there are no other attractive options.

Can you not see about coming to some sort of compromise with the father? You said it yourself, it's pretty messed up to try to do it behind his back. And you never know what sort of reprocussions this could cause.

I know it's almost an impossible situation, but I hope everything works out for you!

The last time she tried to get him to compromise on something he attacked her, her mother, and their child on the street. Her mother broke his nose and he went to the police station to file assault charges on her, the police laughed at him.

But that was a couple of years ago, and he has a new family now, but my fiancee still seems to think that it is hopeless to try and get his permission. I want her to talk to an attorney, and she is looking for one.

I am hoping someone can give me some information that can help me bring my fiancee's son with her when she comes to the US. We are running out of time, and he still hasn't signed the paper. Can she take him to court and the court will decide where the child will live. She has full custody, but he has visitation rights. Her son has lived with her his whole life. She is from Vietnam, and I don't know where to tell her to go for the courts to give her permission. Any advice is appreciated.

We are in the same boat... fiance's ex is in Belarus, fiance in Crimea. It is clear that the US services will not permit child to enter USA without documentation that satisfies their concerns over "kidnapping". I have already asked my fiance to try and obtain a court order that the father has abandoned the child. IMO that is the best route as against trying to "negotiate" an approval from the father.

My experience....

I have custody or my 3 kids. Their father has visitation rights to the oldest one but not to the younger 2. He has never used his right to see him. He has been gone for 10+ yrs. I do not know his location.
I was originally told by Vancouver consulate I only needed to have custody, however I can't apply for a passport without his fathers permission because it has visitation.
I called family court and got information....lawyers were of no help.
I am currently in the process of filing an exparte request for substitutional service. Basically asking the court for permission to serve someone who does know his location to serve him. There is another option if nobody knows his location.
Once that is done and he is served I go to court and ask for a variance to the order, taking the visitation rights off.
I would suggest calling the family court in your area and/or seeing if there is a maintenance or custody variance department who can assist you.