Thank you and I hope it's a contribution! We'll see. The more I study, the more I realize that I have quite a bit of room for improvement too! I think that it will be lifelong.

Oh my... wow, just wow. I can't believe you think it's up to the woman to make or break the relationship when it comes around the time that they might be leaving the woman. The man knows what he wants and he knows what he has been doing since day 1.

Ok so you're saying when it comes to the time that they might leave you that we should start cooking more?

hiya sarah. let's not rekindle this, shall we?

I refuse to be drawn into this again today. I was stating what I felt, not what the world should believe or feel. My goodness.........can we agree to disagree?

Jackie

no!

Some people are debating on here and are not even married yet.

I don't think there is a difference between Muslim and Christian marriages but what I do think there is a difference between engaged (and apart) and married (and together).

When I was engaged I could so say things like "He loves me and that's all that matters. He won't care if I cook or clean or whatever" and spend all night fighting with you guys over it. I seriously believed it.

Well now that we are married if I don't do my part : cook, clean, bills, homework, my part time job, and etc. If he doesn't do his part : work full time, english school, clean outside, deal with trash, deal with our two cars, fix anyting in the house, clean the tile once a week, and etc. The other party gets a little irritated.

When Ali goes to work all day and comes home and does not find dinner he is supposed to say "It's okay honey I love you and that's all that matters" Ugggggh no. You guys are living in a dream.

He says "How come there's nothing to eat ? " So I say "Oh I was busy blah blah blah" and he says "Well let's come up with something I'm hungry". He doesn't get mad ... but if I didn't cook everyday yes there would be problems in our marriage.

This is a thread for people already married ... not engaged people cuz you guys hardly know what it's like to be married (unless of course you have already been married).

There is nothing ancient about cooking and cleaning for your family. I go to school full time, work part time, and am still able to cook and clean my house. I am PG and my husband helps out .. but he does not let it slide for me to not do anything and say I am "modern".

discussion + judgementalism = train wreck

woo woo

I think the point has totally gotten lost here. I don't think anyone said that women should not cook and clean. The objection was to framing your marriage around the immigration timeline. IMO, this assumes that the marriage was entered into for the sole purpose of a green card. By doing things that fit your husband's image of a perfect wife, you can prevent him from leaving when the 10-year green card arrives.

Charles I wasn't around yesterday so I am just seeing this for the first time and I ran into Jackie's post. Don't you have my absence documented with screenshots?




I agree with you Jenn, I also think that it's clear that the marriage was entered for the wrong reasons.

Also, hi! I haven't talked to you for a while!

I didn't see it as a train wreck as well..It was getting a bit heated but we were all being quite civil until the train wreck comments came. I am not trying to get back into the mud slinging ..I wanted to keep the peace and have a nice debate.

I didn't know u were in a car accident!!! I hope you are ok and YOU HAD BETTER BE RESTING!




I dunno if they like me or not but I will say that I like to try my best to be a voice of reason (wether it is here or in real life..this is just the way I am ... take it or leave it) A lot of things have followed me especially things concering Islam and that just breaks my heart. I still come around because well hey, if I leave, who will put ppl in their corners when they're bad right? hehehe



You had a very beautiful post! I wanted to comment on these 2 things...THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY THE WHOLE TIME so THANK YOU so much for "nutshelling" it so well. This is the breakdown of all my posts .. I just couldn't get it to come out right in the short way so I tried to use examples to get the point accross. I just had very poor word choices. THANKS AGAIN

amal







what LB says is what Jackie meant (i think, jackie correct me if I'm wrong) only Jackie put it VERY bluntly...short and to the point (possibly even a bad choice of wording) and that is why she was so misunderstood and things went so out of control. I want to elaborate more but I think short is better this time.

you were absent?

yep... work work work and play play play.

Well, I guess I misunderstood then. Maybe people have been arguing over different things. Can't say that would be the first time...

that is why i kept trying to explain..coz I knew it was being taken out of context *sigh of relief* *collapses to the floor*

Exactly! Not sure why the point keeps being lost because the difference is obvious.



I see no connection between what Jackie said and LB said. Again, this goes back to the whole timeline thing Jenn referred to above. The transformation of the wife he wants at the 10-year card mark.

I'm sorry but what else could Jackie have meant? She basically stated that around the time a man might leave that one should do extra things to get him to stick around. DOesn't that mean that the wife obviously doubts the marriage and thinks he might be here for the greencard? Why else would she make extra efforts right aroung the time he might leave?

I don't think you're wrong, that was what we were discussing. I don't remember anyone saying a woman can't cook and clean. We were specifically talking about the basis of a relationship, a point was made that we should be more careful close to a 2-year & 10-year GC, and then counter points were made that this was not the basis of others' relationships here. The cooking/cleaning were used as examples on both sides, as things both sides of the argument do in fact do.

Wow oh wow - these three lines just amaze me. Where do I pick up my forum board police badge?

Note: BOLD was in original posts not my doing

All of these wonderful people that you speak of can post whenever they want. We can respond however we want. That's VJ- a public forum.

boohoo.

Shocked me too.

My marriage is how I anticipated, better in fact. My husband did not misrepresent his expectations of me or our marriage, nor did I have false expectations. I wasn't living in a dream world. LB, you may have been living in a dream, but that certainly isn't the case for everyone else. Projecting your experience onto everyone else???

I'm just saying there is a huge difference between being engaged and being married. When people want to argue and go on and on and on. There point is valid if they are married (in this thread). If they are not married then to me they are just going on and on for no reason. I don't get involved in the Christianity threads cuz I am not Chrisitan. I don't get involved in engagement threads cuz I'm not engaged. You don't have to understand what I am saying ... I don't care. I know my friends on here do get what I am saying and see my point.

Note : Noone said it was your doing ... I stand by my statements.

Yep and I have your address now so I'll help them!!

Everyone or almost everyone who has posted in this thread is either married or has been perviously.

Pretty shocking to me, too, especially since most women here have been married before, and all those engaged in the conversation yesterday referred many times to their previous marriages.

If expectations are not addressed ahead of time, I can imagine you would be in a dream world. However, if they are addressed, things will probably go fairly smoothly. If they are addressed ahead of time and they don't go smoothly, well that certainly isn't a dream world, that's someone coming to the relationship having misrepresented themselves in the first place.

I'm sorry to quote you again LB but the "irritated" paragraph (3rd paragraph) and the 5th paragraph are what I think Jackie was talkin about. and yeah before the 10 year card. Maybe this is when she realized the truths to these paragraphs but it is what she was talking about just the same. She was saying...it is when the realization came to her that some things needed to change. She wasn't saying that all ppl would or should feel the same way but she was only talking about how she felt at the 10 year card mark. She just put it too bluntly and even I had to think about it and talk with her about it to get the correct understanding of what she meant.
We are leaving the house for a while today (we are both off together!! yayyyyyy!!!) so I appoint the next poster to keep the peace while I'm away and they should appoint the next poster to sign the peace keeping treaty
(yes i'm kidding)
amal

Amal, I'm sorry to say this but I think you should stop trying to rephrase what Jackie said 100 times to change the meaning. I think we know what she meant and it's too late to change it. I don't quite understand why you keep trying to explain to us what jackie meant as if we're too stupid to see the real meaning. It was pretty clear and I don't think there is any hidden meaning. Thanks,
Sarah

I seriously think it's time to bury the dead horse.

Note to self: Be sure to include every bit of personal information about your life and experience to show you have the proper creditials to post an opinion.

I may not be married, but my reading comprehension's pretty good. I don't see where anyone said 'I do not have to adjust my life because I am a MODERN WOMAN and I will never clean!'

I did see a lot of people thinking that maybe, just maybe, there's more than one way to divide chores that a couple could agree on, without it impugning anyone's fitness as a wife. And that more importantly, if the guy is hellbent on using you for a green card, he's likely not going to change his mind just because you make him a mean three-cheese omelette.

And I think it puts too much weight on the poor woman to say, "Yes, he came here to use you as his 'work papers', but sweetie, if the marriage fails, it's your fault because you weren't a good enough cook/submissive enough wife/thin enough/pretty enough/pious enough.'

gulp. ( )

i'm digging as fast as i can!




a posting resume perhaps?

Why is that a duh? Apparently she thought that a lot of the posters were still just engaged.

the horse just kicked, it's baaaaaaaack.

everyone or almost everyone.......that just about covers......everyone!

Amal...I think you are doing a good job and here's your hat







Afraid it is a bit small. Hope it fits

ok what if your husband said "wow I love when you make that special food" would you not make it when he was working late that day or had a bad day or was super hungry.... in turn what if you said " wow I love it when I get in my car and the tank is full, the inside and outside is clean, and my favorite scent tree is hanging up" would he not make sure that is done for you? if you do for him what he loves he will do for you what you love?? I think that is what Jackie meant....

I'm not following you. Forget it, it's not important anyway.

And then it still might not be enough if you are on the wrong side of any argument. It seems to be the standard generic come back when someone doesn't have anything to say in response to a discussion.

where is the redundant police?

but then she added, right around the time he might leave his wife........... so these things should be stressed when he gets his greencard so that he will change his mind and stick around.

If Jackie meant that, then why did she include in many posts that NOT doing these things for your man might effect the outcome of a marriage come the 2-year or 10-year time point? No one is debating doing nice things for your SO.

Sigh. Not redundant.

You just didn't get it. I did not go back and do a background check on every poster in this thread. But I would guess that *either* "everyone" *or* (not and!) "almost everyone" who posted in this thread is married or previously married. The alternative, as LB suggested, is that a significant number of posters in this thread are not yet married.

everyone or almost everyone, that has or almost has posted here, may or maynot, have or have not, been married or not married, engaged or not engaged has or have not posted here...

how is that charles???

moody!!!!

add to your list for Mohammed:

1) clean inside and outside of car
2) make sure moody's tank is filled (no comments from the peanut gallery there charles )

you work in a law office?

Just curious....why?

that's true... however what if before it was discussed what was expected from both persons and one person has not been keeping up with there expected part...and then close to the time that the time was expiring then the person realized they have not been keeping up with there part. Therefore they might just start doing what they discussed plus more to make up .... hehehe what do you think?




no but that might be the only place I have never worked..

I think Jackie said what she meant. She pretty clearly tied it to the removal of conditions on the green card. It's in the neighborhood of some 'let's all make adjustments when we marry and be super nice and happy' sentiments that are unobjectionable, but it's not the same thing.

Of course I do nice things for C., and he does nice things for me. We are in love, and both of us care about each other, and are adults. But if we get to the point where I'm thinking, gee, he's going to leave me UNLESS I MAKE LASAGNA, I think something much more fundamental in our relationship would be broken. My lasagna's pretty damn good, but there's limits to its power.