Mohammed has 2 cousins that recently went thru lifting conditions. Neither one had a problem, just sent in some proof like bills and bank statements, and both got 10 year cards. I'm sure you won't have any trouble at all.

Jackie

so technically if the guy is using the girl (or the girl using the guy) for immigration, the jig would be up after two years if he got the green light for the green card?

Yes and no. Many of the guys stick around for a few more years because they can put more money away, especially if the woman is paying most of the bills. Even if it is 50/50, he can save more if he stays a few extra years (not to mention possibly have meals cooked for him and a clean home). I think the jig is often up once they have a nice chunk of change & the GC.

If I end up being dumped after he acquires a nice chuck of change and the GC, I am moving to Morocco to live with his mother.

what??? do you think I am kidding?

I can totally understand figuring out the pains of learning to live together, cleaning, laundry, cooking, meal times, who does which chores, etc. I do not, however, understand how these things automatically jump to him potentially leaving because of these kinds of things. We've established both parties will have this kind of compromising to do, right? If the tables were turned and you hated that your husband couldn't bear to eat one frozen lasagna a week when you cook fresh all the otehr 6 dinners each week, would he be having to worry that you might leave? I don't think so. You wouldn't do such a thing, not even think it, I'm sure. So why is this even something to worry about with the man leaving if things don't change?



No, because if you divorce after you get the 2 year card, you have to file the I-751 (lifting conditions) individually, with a waiver stating the marriage has terminated, and hope that the USCIS believe the petitioner actually did originally enter into the marriage legitimately.

[quote name='peezey' date='Nov 26 2006, 07:44 PM' post='587202']
[quote name='amal' post='586970' date='Nov 26 2006, 05:17 PM']

So,you see, If I didn't do something to make the relationship stronger, then I was only going to give him more of a reason to leave (in lighter definition, give him reasons to be mad all the time and end up causing the whole household to be upset and who wants to live that way--) It was easier for me to change myself than it was to deal with the problems) in my case, though, the things i had to change were things that i should have change to begin with..I just needed help...

[/quote]

I can totally understand figuring out the pains of learning to live together, cleaning, laundry, cooking, meal times, who does which chores, etc. I do not, however, understand how these things automatically jump to him potentially leaving because of these kinds of things. We've established both parties will have this kind of compromising to do, right? If the tables were turned and you hated that your husband couldn't bear to eat one frozen lasagna a week when you cook fresh all the otehr 6 dinners each week, would he be having to worry that you might leave? I don't think so. You wouldn't do such a thing, not even think it, I'm sure. So why is this even something to worry about with the man leaving if things don't change?

[quote name='Bosco' post='587189' date='Nov 26 2006, 08:30 PM']

considering that my first husband left me due to these exact things.....yeah I think it is something that some people should have to worry about. I don't worry about my husband now leaving me for it...but it did happen once and if it happened to 1 person, it can happen to another...I wish i could type more but we are watching a movie and smoking argeelah...he has started without me so i gotta go , i'll add more later enshallah...

trying to get Mohammed to light ours..lol

Jackie

WOW...I just can't believe what I am reading. Many of the women here in this forum are divorced, including myself. I took my last marriage as a learning expericance. That said, I would NEVER pretend to be someone I am not just to be with a man or please a man. Greencard or no greencard, if you are not the domestic type then why on earth would you pretend to be? To please a man? A man should accept you for who you are and not what you do for him. The special touches are nice but in no way should they define a relationship or be a deciding factor in how long a man should stay after he gets his greencard.

If I had any doubts about my fiances intentions I would not marry him for the simple reason that I am divorced, I learned my lesson, and I know what I want in life and in a marriage. However given the fact that some of the courtship times for couples in our forum have been really minimal, then I wouldn't expect that anyone would be able to learn about another person's intentions in that period of time.

I had doubts about my ex husband and dismissed them as cold feet, well I should have listened to my gut. I don't think it would be fair to myself to get in a relationship where I have doubts and have to change my behaivior as we get closer to that 10 year green card to keep him from running. I honestly don't know what to say about some of the advice given here, its absoulutly mind boggling.

It isn't that I wasn't the domestic type..it is that I just plain didn't know how to do it and keep it done. I know that sounds stupid but it is the truth. I wanted to be a tidier person but didn't know what to do. Honestly, I am happy I learned to change because living the other way was unhealthy. My husband taught me how to do things in a great way and I thank him for that. We live a great life together with minimal arguments. I don't see a problem in fixing something in your life for the better if you want to fix it. I didn't just change for him, I changed for myself. I didn't like living that way.

I think it is the paranoia before the 10 yr card that makes a person change. As I stated a while back, it is the moment of truth (I think maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany ppl worry about this to some degree). Not all ppl..but many. Some situations are different as the spouse has lived here a long time before they met you, or you are both of the same nationality and have known each other forever so it isn't an issue at all... But there are the others who are going on "blind faith" that have that tiny smidge of concern as to the true intentions of their spouse/soon to be spouse. Therefore, the closer to the "moment of truth" it gets, the more paranoid he/she gets because they will soon know what the last 2 years of their lives meant (in a matter of speaking).
Now, I wouldn't say that a person HAD to change in order to keep their spouse but I will say that paranoia will cause a person to do things they wouldn't normally do to ensure their own safety (keeping the husband). It is all paranoia speaking at this point. To understand this point of view, you have to understand how paranoia works alltogether. Many of us have some degree of paranoia with our relationships. I know this because of some threads a while back that talked about how we felt and most of us (at that time) said we were paranoid but we loved them and prayed that it would work out. A person that feels this will wear that extra pair of socks to ensure their toes don't freeze and will put away that extra dish in the sink to remind her spouse that she's a great wife and that he loves her. A far step ? yeah a bit. Does it happen? absolutely. I think after the 10 year card is received, the intensity level lessens and they feel they can resume their normal lives. It is just a level of paranoia, that's all.

I think if the fear of your spouse leaving rises to the level of altering your behavior, there is a serious problem, if not in the relationship than with the person experiencing such thoughts, and they could probably benefit from some kind of treatment. Of course it is natural to have fleeting thoughts and worries, and we all experience unfounded fears from time to time. However, if these fears become so large that they modify our behavior, there is a bigger issue at hand. My ex takes my daughter for the occasional weekend. Once in a while, the thought will pass through my mind that he simply could decide not to return her and disappear. It is a passing thought. It doesn't prompt me to pick up the phone and locate them in that moment or keep her from visiting. I realize it is a bit nutty and I go on with whatever I was doing. There is clearly a difference between the occasional moment of "what if" and paranoia that takes over how you act in your relationship.

On another note, why even have paranoia about your relationship in the first place. If he leaves, he leaves. You deal with the hurt and move on. It isn't life-ending by any means. People can't manage alone? Letting something as destructive as paranoia creep into the relationship and your life on a regular basis is unhealthy. It honestly comes across in this forum that the only standard some women have is making the man stay with them and to not be alone, at any cost. Not being true to who they are, changing their behavior/clothing/religion drastically, sometimes at a financial cost, even changing how they treat their own children and their own family.

Bosco, I honestly think there is a very very fine line between what you are saying and what i'm saying. I honestly do ride the fence on this one ..I do see both sides points of views. I'm just trying to make sense of this particular point of view. I totally see what you're saying but I also see what has been said.

The funny thing about paranoia is that it can kick in at any time wether you want it to or not. Sure we can live through our spouses leaving but do we want them to...no, not really. Inside us, we are giving them our hearts and don't want that to be stepped on. Some ppl are stronger than others in the fact that if the man leaves, the man leaves... I lost someone about 4 years ago and never really did fully recover. It killed a part of me when he left. I had given him every inch of my heart and he left in 1 moment without any notice. I couldn't handle it if that happened again. No, I don't go out of my way to do things JUST for the simple fact of keeping my husband... but I do do things that make him happy coz I like to do them and I like to make him happy...that is just me

Thank you Amal for explaining so eloquently what I was trying to express. I was probably a year too soon in posting what I did several pages ago. I too was a 'messy housekeeper'. Now you could drop over anytime and you would find our place in order and clean. Did I change for him? Yep. But like you stated, it was a change for the better. Would Mohammed have stayed if we were constantly argueing about cleanliness and other issues that came up in the first 2 years, probably not. I don't regret for a moment the changes I made, as it created an atmosphere of harmony in our home. Meals for me used to be microwave. Would he have stayed if this is what I served every night. Who knows. I learned to cook. Now I whip out some fabulous dishes.

I regret what I posted yesterday. It seems most here still have on the rose colored glasses.

Jackie

If being true to myself and confident in my relationship means that I am wearing rose-colored glasses, then may I always wear rose-colored glasses.

Whatever works for you Every relationship is different, that is what makes life so great. Now we have seen everyones thoughts on 'muslim marriage tips', when does the 'christian marriage tips' thread start?

Jackie

I guess in a "christian marriage tips"- thread you'd find very similar posts

What has worked for me/us in the past is to not try and change the other, treat each other with respect and be tolerant and patient. Especially if two cultures are involved and language might be an issue.

Rose-colored glasses? excuse me while I pick my chin up off the floor.



I think I must live in a different glaxay which is why I am having so much trouble understanding things here. I can not even imagine fighting over cooked vs. microwaved meals or cleaning the house. Because I can only choose to marry a man who from the very start holds the same values and similar outlooks on what home and family lifestyles should be, conflicts that need to be resolved as we live together are minimum and are no different than what any other maried couple goes through. I could never enter a marriage where we are so culturally and individually so different that i have to change for him to keep the peace.

Well well well, I now must look at my own relationship and question if I am married to an intolerant, unpatient man. Thinks that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Jackie

Issues pop up that you don't think about during the stage in the relationship where you're apart.

Maybe it won't be microwave vs. homecooked, but most certainly something will pop up that you'll have to compromise on. The issues might seem small, but perhaps coupled with other stressors like moving to a new country, job stuff, language challenges, whatever, something insignificant may become a deal breaker.

Allahu Alem, only God knows.

I am in that galaxy with you MBP (and Jenn).

Personal growth, growth within a relationship, and growth as a couple are different than changing to keep a man. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept but little surprises me in this forum anymore.



Not sure how to take this, but I think it is quite nice the Christians in this forum are posting.



A distinction has been made between the normal changes and accomodations couples make versus "giving him a reason to leave" and "become more the wife he expects and wants" when the 10-year green card comes. These are two different things, IMO.

Something not mentioned is believing in your husband's character. I am not overrun with paranoia because I believe the man I married is a solid, moral, man of strong character. Using a person for anything or abandoning the woman he married over food or dirty dishes would go against his character, how he has been raised, the standards he holds himself to, and the things that drew me to him in the first place (tolerance, patience, compassion).

Muslim marriage books

The Muslim Marriage Guide - more of a collection of essays than a guide. The chapter on sex as sadaqa is excellent

Blissful Marriage: A Practical Islamic Guide - especially written for muslim couples living in north america.


Also Rights and Responsibilities of Marriage - it's a little costly, but can be found on some bit torrent exchange sites if you look. However, if you do download it for free, please buy a cd or two at retail price. Through our financial support, our scholars can continue to put out excellent and beneficial works.

Relationship/marriage is like a dance. You can move and flow together, or one partner (or both) can become resistant and they stumble. You either learn to dance together or you stop dancing. The dance is choice/compromise/cooperation and its never-ending.

Just because two couple fight over the things I mentioned does mean the husband or wife are wrong or bad people. There is no judgement here. I just see it in a general sense (not looking at any relationship here). A husband who complains that the house is not clean enough for him is a husband who has an expectation of living in a clean house as he defines it. There is nothing wrong with that. He is not a bad person for wanting that. He has every right to expect that. You are the one that labeled him with negative characteristics.



In my opinion (and we all know its worth what you pay for) that some couples go into a marriage without clearly communicating their expectations of each other, their ownselves and married life. I guestion why a man who owants to live in a house that looks and runs a certain way would marry a woman who isn;t going to give him what he wants. And why would a woman marry a man who expects her to be something she isnt? AND why is the woman changing the answer to the conflict?



If the answer is because they love each other, then he should allow her to be what she is and clean the house to his own expectations. If she loves him, she can and sould accomodate thsoe things that are important to him, but the moment she changes to save the marriage or to reidentify herself, she sets upon a path that can possibily lead only to unhappiness and further conflict.

I'm just starting to skim through this thread. It kinda reminds me of the girls in Mona Lisa Smile. Well educated women willing to throw it all away to please their man. Kinda sickening. Marriage is give and take IMO.

When my husband didn't like my harira he thanked me for trying and then made his own

What kind of arrogant crap is this? Because others do not change and/or do not make domestic/cleaning/cooking issues a make-or-break deal in their relationships, they are wearing rose colored glasses? Honestly, I am shocked.

Absolutely issues pop up when you are married that did not when you were apart. My first marriage was also a bi-national relationship. We both entered into the marriage with different expectations based in cultural and home-life experiences. There were conflcits, but we didn't fight over them. We sorted it out and it wasn't easy. In the end we both made adjustments of what we expected from the other and compromised.

Just what I've been thinking. Clearly there are bigger things going on here, though.

I just dont' believe that anyone's husband has "taught" them how to keep a house. Come on, ladies, you very well know what a clean house is and whether or not you care to have one by now. None of us are kids in our first apartment. Again, figuring out the growing pains of living together for the first time is not the same as making fundamental changes to please your man. I for one, am not a great housekeeper. But this doesn't define me as a person and has never once come up in any of my relationships, except for me to say "I'm not a great housekeeper." I'm also a microwave/take out meal eater. I cook sometimes, but when I want to, and should my husband ever make me feel like these things make me the kind of wife he's willing to leave or that he needs to "teach" me to "better" myself by cooking more and putting my books away more often, then HE would be the one hitting the curb beause I sent him there for such b.s. And then I'd have to figure out what the heck my problem is for having chosen a man who makes these things something to argue about in the first place.

I plan on acting the same way that I have been for the last 10+ years since I've moved out of my parent's house. I've been a wife before..I am a mother..I know how that stuff works. I do like to keep a clean home. I do like to cook. I don't need a Muslim "guide" to marriage to teach me how to do it. A man who wants to leave will do it regardless.

I am. Well, not a kid. But this is my first apartment. And first marriage. We have a very diverse group here, lets not forget.

I didn't say that we are all on mutliple marriages, and while this might be your first apartment, those discussing cleaning/cooking issues are not on their first households.

It is very clear this is a diverse group.

You can say that again!

before i met nessa, i ate from the 5 food groups:
instant, take out, frozen, canned, and microwaved


share the popcorn, sister

only $8!

One thing I've learned in life... when you start tossing words out like "should" and "should not" you are cavorting through the world of your own expectations and they are not always shared/understood/embraced by the other. Being able to communicate helps A LOT A LOT A LOT, but I realize that's not always as easy as it "should be" (tongue in cheek... ha ha) especially with cultural/language differences. I will now and forever always believe one of the most important things in any relationship is the ability to communicate with each other. Discussing expectations all through out the duration of the relationship avoids a lot of misunderstandings (can lead to some doozy arguments too, but what is life without a little bit of passion).

wow have i learned my lesson!! (I hope!!)

Here I was trying to do a good thing by hopefully getting some advice on a good muslim marriage from the wives here who are muslim and whammo it has balooned into something I never imagined. Geesh. All I did was spot a few suggestions from an islamic forum that I belong to, thought gee I wonder what else is out there and now I'm a well educated woman trying to throw it all away for a man?

Yes I am well educated. What am I throwing away exactly though? I am in control of my kids and my workplace...two extremely big responsibilities. Is it any wonder that once I get home and with my husband I'd like him to take the reins? Nope. It's pretty darn normal if you ask me! Does it work for everyone? Apparently not. That's cool though.

Things I have learned out of this thread is that a "muslim marriage" is just like any other marriage and that the things I thought were true, such as the husband having to answer for how he led his "flock", are not 100% agreed upon by everyone. That's cool too. Learn something new every day.

I just don't think though that if something works for one person and not for another, the other should diss that person's formula.

Amal I totally see what you're saying. I used to be a total slob and eat tuna every night before my first marriage. He was a total neat freak and I changed so that we wouldn't argue about these things and so that his mother wouldn't constantly complain about how I kept the house. He left me for other reasons but here I am, divorced and alone for 9 years since then and my house is a mess again and I eat tuna when the kids aren't with me. I'm now in the process of trying to get a routine together so that the kids pitch in and things get cleaned more. I want Usama to walk into a nice clean home that says welcome, not a pit that says, ok here's the mop, get started. That's just my little way of saying I love you.

Ok, well WHATEVER to this. I don't see the need to bring religion into everything and we need 2 seperate threads?


Very well said! A man doesn't fall in love with a woman based on how shiny her dishes are and how clean her house is. That is pretty shallow IMO.

yeah! it's how big her boobs are and how good a cook she is

actually not for nuttin' but my ex left me for the maid. lol. I just remembered that.

Take the reins of what? I mean it as a serious question. I follow you wanting a break/relief after work/kids, but does this mean taking the reins of cooking/cleaning or something else. Again, it is a sincere question and I am trying to understand what this means.

maybe she did a good job cleaning the doorknobs?

Doodle...I meant no offense by my statements. I didn't mean you or anyone else here was throwing it all away for a man. I was referring to the movie, Mona Lisa Smile. I just meant that a lot of the expected behaviors in the Islamic marriage guidelines seem like a flashback to the '50s or earlier. I don't think that modern thinking Muslim men expect their wives to adhere to these strict guidelines. It's really a bit much to expect from a woman with a full time job and/or other responsibilities. Also...I realize you didn't author these guidelines. You were just bringing them up for discussion.

Now it becomes obvious why after 3 years here, I have only 2 hearts, I usually keep my fukin opinion to myself. But because this was about MUSLIM marriages, and I have been in one for 4 years, I THOUGHT I could post what works for US. I never said you HAVE to change your way of cooking and cleaning to keep your husband, only that you may WANT to. Enough shouting from me today, I have a pile of paperwork on my desk calling my name. Truce if anyone is interested.

I will go back now to my quite self and help those that need support during the waiting process. It's what I do best and I usually do it in private PM's.

Jackie

I dont' want to think about money. Period. I'm a cpa and deal with it all day long. I want him to do all of that stuff. Granted it will take some time but eventually I want him to be the one in charge of paying the bills, etc. As far as the housework goes, I'm cool with all that and with the cooking. I prefer that everyone stay the heck outta my kitchen anyways since I'm kind of particular about where things go. We have agreed that he will do the manly man stuff like mow the lawn, shovel snow (he's never seen snow so that outta be a hoot n a holler), take out the trash and fix stuff that's broken. I want him to be our "julie macoy cruise director" and plan our nights. I'm also looking forward to learning about Islam from him. He was born a muslim and is strong in his faith and I know I can learn much from him. Basically I want him to be the leader of the house. I don't know if I'm explaining it that clearly.

Jackie, I think you knew what the reaction would be with your initial post. You even said, "At the risk of negative attention, I have a comment regarding marriage tips." I thought it was up for discussion.

No hard feelings here.

Thanks for explaining. Sounds like a partner to me, but I guess it is semantics.