That's a cute outfit. A little touch of Annie Oakley there.

Well I am not sure if you continued to read about the Fiqh of picture making...but if you didnt I will post the article for you and give some explaination also.



Fiqh of Picture-Making



As-salaamu alaykum,

There is somewhat of a difference of opinion among the scholars in regard to pictures and other types of images. Most scholars seem to agree that the display of images is at best makruh and should only be done in a limited way for specific reasons. Many scholars hold that some kinds of pictures are haram. The way that I understand it is the following:

1) Drawings of inanimate objects and plants are halal except if they are used for shirk. That is, if you draw a picture of a tree with the intention of worshiping the picture of the tree, then that is haram. But otherwise it is halal.

2) Drawings of animate objects such as animals and humans are in general considered to be haram with the following exceptions:
a) If the image is partial or incomplete and not a full-body image, then this is halal
If the facial features of the image have been erased even if it is a full-body image, then this is halal

3) There is a difference of opinion about whether photography is to be considered the same as drawings (this is the opinion of Shaykh Munajjid) or is in a class of its own that does not have the same restriction as drawings (this is the opinion of Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, among others).

It is my personal preference to avoid what is doubtful as much as I can and therefore to avoid the use of full-body photographs of humans and animals if I can use partial images, erase the facial features, or avoid the use of such images altogether. However, other people may feel differently.

It is certainly difficult to follow such a rule in modern society, but I do not feel that it is "extreme". Inshallah, if we refrain from doing something for the sake of Allah SWT, He will reward us, and especially so if the sacrifice is difficult for us.

W'as-salaam alaykum

But basically in a nut shell, images and pictures (not included toys and picture books, etc intended for children) is forbidden as it is form of shikr (idol worship) seems kinda harse...but scholars agree on this. I myself, no have any images of living organisms with faces (humans, animals, etc) only flowers decorate my home. My daughter has dolls, picture books, etc of course...but not so many where she would ever even remotely *worship* them... ya get my meaning?

I was actually very surprised when my husband took me to his imaam friend's home where I saw countless pictures and porcelain statues... I was like SubhanAllah! Shocked me!



I do wonder that sometimes... may I ask you a question Szsz..do you veil?

I don't think this article was trying to convince anyone that it's required so much as just exploring a muslim woman who has made that decision.
I don't call myself trying to convince anyone else to do anything here... I wear it because I'm convinced that it is in the Quran... others interpret it differently and that's cool but it doesn't change my belief.
This question could work both ways.... Why is there so much effort to convince women to disrobe?

Aww you beat me to it!! I was thinking of her when Rhama mentioned the hot pink color. It's definitely allowed since no color is ruled out at Hajj but she sure did stick out like a soar thumb!!! Pretty brazen irish woman there! I also loved her style of headcovering as well. I don't think she's used to it since Iv'e seen other documentaries of her on youtube.com (which is where I watched the Hajj program) and she only veiled when she went into the masjid.

Yeah, I find that people put a tremenous amount of brain energy into discussing a piece of cloth on a woman's head.

I think all of the time and energy spent worrying about Hijab could be much better spent helping woman who actually are oppressed, reading Quran, and developing our own relationships with God. I'm not saying that as a comment regarding anyone here, just what I have come across in my own (admitedly very limited) study of Islam.

I googled it but I just found a pic of her wearing a headcovering... no pink face veil I'd love to see that

No pink veil only she dressed as quite colorfully during the hajj

I know this is totally and completely off topic, but here I go. Being a Christian, I know in the Bible it mentions the womans head being covered. Why is it that it's not practiced now? In Egypt the Christians many not have covered their heads out of the homes, but in church they do. Just curious.

We have to cover our hair in church here. Alot of chruches require it and even have a box of scarves before you walk in. We are also not allowed to wear lipstick when taking communion.

I think every church is different.

Really? Where are you at? I've thought it would be kinda cool if the churches here went back to this.

I wasn't implying that by posting the article you were trying to convince anyone to wear hijab. I asked about the effort extended only because of the the fact that pro-hijab articles (some linked here) are extremely abundant and so easy to find. In contrast, . . . well, there is almost nothing in contrast to that. The reality that this is a complex issue with competing views among the ummah and the scholars is cloaked in a campaign to make hijab a defining characteristic of Muslimness - for women only.



Ironically, the same debate goes on among Christians because, unlike the Quran, the Bible specifically requires headcovering for women. In 1 Corinthians 11:2-6 , Paul commands women to cover their heads in deference to God and to men, who are deemed to be the image and glory of God. Some believe that the current emphasis on headcovering for Muslim women is rooted in these Biblical verses, not in the Quran. I have, in fact, seen many Muslims cite it as justification for headcovering since it is less ambiguous than the Quranic ayat.

I live in Northern California and I go to an Orthodox church.

Then why did the Christian churches stray away from covering the head?

Because the religion has evolved with time.

Headcovering was embraced by orthodox demoninations (Roman and Byzantine) early in their formation. Protestant demoninations, on the other hand, tend to regard Paul's view as condtional rather than obligatory.

Interesting you mentioned this.....I was thinking the same thing. Seems the church has been getting more lax over the years. Growing up I remember how I ALWAYS had to wear a dress or skirt. Now I rarely see girls wearing dresses/skirts to church. It's always jeans.

and mark your calendars

November 13th is Wear your Hijab to Work Day

You made me think of something.....an email I got, I couldnt cut and paste so I had to put the link.

Sacred Clothing for Church

Food for thought....




The city of Fremont is about 20 minutes from my house.

I can't say for other churches but I know for the Roman Catholic church it was due to Vatican II. No one specifically said take off the veils but because it wasn't put in there at all everyone assumed they should take them off. Kind of happened around the same time that communion was taken by hand instead of directly on the tongue.





Here it is:

http://www.islamicvideos.net/component/opt...,236/Itemid,30/

Just wanted to add my opinion on the dressing issue.

I don't think what you wear, whether it's a hijab or dress or jeans, can really show who you are inside and what your relationship with God is.

I remember at college walking behind a group of girls in hijab, and they had some of the filthiest mouths I'd ever heard. I was very shocked and it only proved that it does not mean that the person is extremely devouted or worried about not being pleasing to God. It was sad for me to hear that from them, because you do tend to assume that they would be more devouted/careful by wearing that. But I know we are all different and our hearts cannot be displayed by our clothing alone.

Many on VJ know that I am a very devout born again Christian. I have many times debated about my faith, and it's clear where I stand on religious issues, usually, as a Christian. But I wear jeans to church these days. I even sometimes lead songs with the guitar during worship time. There is no where in the bible that commands that you have to wear fancy clothes to church. It is just cultural, not spiritual IMO. What matters is the heart, not the clothes. I like dresses too, but I don't have to wear them to church all the time. Our church doesn't care whether people are in jeans or dresses. I just don't think it matters if someone dresses up fancy yet they don't care about God during the rest of the week. I wear jeans to church and really love God and want to please Jesus as much as I can. If I wore dresses I'd be the same way. It doesn't change who I am inside whether it's a dress or jeans.

Just a different perspective.

Whoops. First link didn't work. This one does. Just move down and then start the movie.

They interpret the covering of the woman's head to be her hair and so they don't feel they need to cover it further.


I wear mine to work every day so I'll be covered on the 13th.....
very sad about that woman why are ppl so cruel?

I don't think any of the articles are trying to convince anyone it's mandatory to wear it.
I do believe the media has reported on it a lot lately to try to help non-muslims understand why some muslim women wear it.

I wouldn't say there's nothing in contrast because I've seen many articles stating that it's not obligatory and some muslim countries have even banned wearing it... this goes back to my question... why are they trying to disrobe muslim women?

I also don't agree that hijab is only for women... maybe some do but not me. Men should hijab in their own way. I can't stand to see shaved men wearing tight pants and wife beater tank tops preaching about hijab brother, if you don't worry about your modesty don't concern yourself with mine

Just wanted to add something to what I posted so that it's not taken the wrong way.
My overall point was, let your actions speak for your beliefs along with what you wear...whether you wear a nice dress, comfy jeans, a hijab, or etc. We can't really know a person's heart by what they wear alone.

I'm curious about one thing though... for those of you who don't believe we are supposed to wear hijab, do you wear it when you pray?

Thank you so much for that doodle!!! What a wonderful documentary

Can I ask a question..does it matter what you wear when you pray? I mean doesn't God accept all prayers, veiled or not? Or do you see this differently? Just curious.

Do orthodox christians not cover their heads in church for this very reason?

There are many churches that don't ask women cover their hair at all actually, most of them actually. More surprisingly when I went to church in Jordan they were more liberal than here. The only reason I cover my hair in church is out of resepct for the church rules. I don't believe in it and I don't do it any other time.

The other reason we cover our hair is that we are receiving the body and blood of Christ during communion and some priests will insist that we cover our hair as a sign of respect. For the same reason I can't wear lipstick. So it really has nothing to do with our prayers.

Answering a question with a question. ?

yes

I really am just curious... I've never met a muslim woman who doesn't cover when she prays or goes in the masjid even if she doesn't wear it any other time... some of the women here are like none I've ever met before so I thought I'd ask

FTR, I make du'a all the time unveiled

Still didn't answer.

I would like to ask a weird question.

Does wearing a headscarf make anyone feel less modest? This is the case with me.

I am not a Muslim and I do not wear hijab, but I occasionally wore it in Morocco. I lived in a small village and wearing it was good for blending in (until I was told to take it off because they knew that it wasn't in my culture -- and that I should show my hair. Gasp!) So I really only covered after hammam because of catching cold and that wet hair thing they have in Morocco (wet hair = prostitute).

Funny thing is, that tightness of binding my hair to my head and really showing my white, freckly face - it made me so self-conscious. I have always had long, thick hair and have tended to let it drape over my face a bit -- so it has been like a natural hijab in a way. I know that is kind of bizarre. But I just wondered if anyone has ever felt the same way?

By the way, I am not even remotely in a debate about it -- and no offense was intended by this question.

I just saw a pic of a group of women sitting on the floor inside their orthodox church and they look like a group of muslims sitting there... I would have thought it was a masjid.


Sure I did... a du'a is a prayer

Ok but in your 5 daily prayers, does it matter if you veil or not?

It does to me. Others may not feel the same.

So you feel your prayers don't count or God doesn't hear your prayers unless you are veiled while you pray?

I don't believe they are accepted if I'm not covered and I'm able to be. If clothes are unavailable to me I think I would be excused.

I'm not going to knock you for what you believe in anyway or try to convince you otherwise, but don't you think there are more important factors than that in being a good muslim?

Yes... but one of the pillars of Islam is prayer and I should do that correctly if I want it accepted.

I see, this interests me.

Good

Actually, if no one else post some info I'll try to find it, but I do believe it is required to cover your hair when making the 5 daily prayers, even if you don't cover at any other time. So if this is correct, prayer is considered invalid if your hair is showing.

I missed this earlier.

Cute story.

There are hundreds of articles by Muslims about how hijab is mandatory; very few in comparison that are not staunchly in favor of it, and those are mostly blogs, open forums, and personal opinion pieces. There has been a huge change in how hijab is promoted by Muslims as an Islamic icon, not only in the narrowing of viewpoints, but in emphasis, since about the mid-1970s, growing louder and stronger since the 1990s. No wonder the mainstream media is captivated by it, we've made it a huge deal ourselves.

Institutionally, it is treated as tho it is obligatory by most scholars, even tho the evidence for that is purely subjective and primarily grounded in tradition, not law. Strangely enough, classical fiqh is much less concerned about women's daily dress than it is about men's dress!

I'm not sure what you mean by why are "they" trying to disrobe Muslim women? To whom are your referring? If you mean secularists, they are latecomers to the debate that has been going on among ourselves. By making it such a priority, we've brought the attention of the world onto ourselves. The whole world thinks it has a say now.

I spent about 15 minutes googling "hijab", non-hijabi", "male hijab", and "hijab not mandatory", looking for what is the norm on well established Muslim internet sites, and these were some of the links that came up:

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/news/hijab/hjb.nonhijabi.asp

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503544114

http://www.islamicvoice.com/october.98/zakir.htm

http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_se...?service_id=192

http://www.modernmuslima.com/hijabmen.htm

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli.../AskAboutIslamE

http://www.themuslimwoman.com/HerDress/WhatHijabIs.htm

http://islam.worldofislam.info/index.php?o...6&Itemid=44

http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Hijab

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations...hatishijab.html

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/womens/virtues_of_hijab.htm

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/hijab-fear.html

http://www.messageonline.org/2004febmarch/cover1_opt.pdf

http://www.mwlusa.org/publications/positionpapers/hijab.html

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli.../AskAboutIslamE

http://muttaqun.com/malehijab.html

I chose those representing themselves as moderate informational sites. I did not include blogs, secular news articles, open forums, apologist or alarmist sites, although it is in those arenas that there is much more varied opinion and debate regarding the subject. That reflects the struggle going on in the real world. On the informational sites, there was very little doubt that hijab is highly preferred if not obligatory.

I have a question about hijab.

What if someone starts wearing but they feel very uncomfortable and get lots of questions as to why she wears it etc... would it be bad to stop wearing it? Do you think it's bad for a woman to wear it selectively? I hope that makes sense.

That first article you linked to was very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I think it's horrible that women treat other women that way in our houses of prayer.
While it is my personal belief that the Quran and Sunnah do make hijab obligatory, there is really no need to be so rude to other sisters, especially in a place of prayer.
A good point that the article makes is that most sisters who don't wear it do believe it's obligatory but they just aren't ready yet and treating them like an insect in the masjid will not help them to prepare in anyway.
It's sad that the places of prayer have become a breeding ground for fitnah.... I have heard of this happening many times... in some of the "salafi" masjids I've heard about sisters being made to feel unwelcomed because they don't cover their faces or because they have another color in their wardobe besides black! This is horrible and should end. If you can't go to the masjid without bringing fitnah with you then perhaps at home by your bed really is the best place for you to pray

I guess there is a lot of info out there to encourage wearing hijab. I don't spend a lot of time googling hijab myself so I guess I never really noticed much.
I have seen quite a few articles making the claims that covering the head is not obligatory and maybe I'll google that and see what I come with. I prefer to spend my time learing about other things though.... I am convinced that it's obligatory to cover so this isn't really something I need to research further. Personally, I would have never started covering if I wasn't convinced of it and I didn't start covering until I was and then it wasn't easy but rather something that I worked my way into.

IRFI
Well that didn't take long

Muslims for Secular Democracy
And there's another.... so they are out there.

Yes, I do not cover unless I am in the mosque or at home to pray. We wear the hijab during prayer and in the mosque to show respect for God. That's why we make wudu before we pray too.

Male Hijab articles
http://muttaqun.com/malehijab.html
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/6674/61371
http://www.modernmuslima.com/hijabmen.htmhttp://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_...n_and_women.htmhttp://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Mag/mag4.htm


"They" = Muslim men trying to disrobe muslim women
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate...;entry_id=10052
http://www.prohijab.net/english/turkey-hijab-news.htm

I'm not convinced that we're not supposed to wear it, I'm just not convinced that we are supposed to wear it...if that makes sense.

When at work I"m always wearing long sleeved shirts and either pants and socks or a long dress with tights so when it's time to pray I just go make wudu, close my door, put on the scarf that I keep here and lay out my prayer rug and pray.

When at home I have this prayer outfit that I love.