Actually, Jews are considered an ethno-religious group. This is widely known and not really up for argument in the sociology/antropology/religous study world. You can belong to more than one ethnic group. However, if you go back to Rebecca's original suggestion that we read the definition of the word ghetto, you would find this

"A ghetto is an area where people from a specific racial or ethnic background or united in a given culture or religion live as a group, voluntarily or involuntarily, in milder or stricter seclusion."

First off, how do you know that VP is an advantaged white person? I don't know anything at all about her. Second, what makes you think that a white person, even poor, always has power to get out? I don't know of any "get out of this life free if you are white" cards. I have seen both poor and advantaged of both the black and white race.

Second, to be honest, I have always viewed trans ams as the prime example of people without class showing off what they DON'T have. I just have never liked those cars. Okay, blast away everyone. I am having a pretty bad day today, so whats one more thing....lol

BTW, my idea of a person with class has nothing to do with their econmical level.

And after that sentence, you will find these:

A ghetto is an area where people from a specific racial or ethnic background or united in a given culture or religion live as a group, voluntarily or involuntarily, in milder or stricter seclusion. The word historically referred specifically to the Venetian Ghetto in Venice, Italy, where Jews were required to live; it derives from the Venetian gheto (slag from Latin GLĬTTU[M] cfr. Italian ghetto (slag)), and referred to the area of the Cannaregio sestiere, the site selected for the Ghetto Nuovo where a foundry cooled the slag (campo gheto). It was later applied to neighborhoods in other cities where Jews were required to live. The corresponding German term was Judengasse; in Moroccan Arabic ghettos were called mellah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto

The fact is, the original connotation for ghetto refered to whites, so there is nothing stopping white people from living in ghettos. White people have ethnic groups too.

Mybackpages, apologies if my response was strong in tone. I think the definition is fine, but we aren't talking about that specifically, although it is an important one.

My problem with the use of the word "ghetto" as a slang way of saying "bad neighborhood" is highly elitist and arrogant. If you live in a particular neighborhood and you use a term that classically means an enclave of a particular minority group and/or an economically disadvantaged group, you are then saying that you are much better than this particular neighborhood and you really don't deserve to live there. If you don't like living there, fine, but don't degrade those who do by making such a separatist and elitist comment.

Before everyone goes nuts, the term "you" isn't referring to anyone specific.



No one is arguing who can or cannot live in a ghetto. It is the derogatory use of the word that is being discussed. Also, we aren't discussing who originally lived in ghettos, but how the word is used today, specifically in the US, specifically as a slang word, specifically to describe something undesirable, in this case, VPs old neighborhood.

Yes, white people have historically lived in ghettos, but the offense I take is when people who are not disadvantaged describe neighborhoods that don't meet their standards as ghettoes. VP admitted living there was a choice. Often it is white people throwing around this word to describe "ethnic" neighorhoods they have chosen to live in but do not necessarily like. In this context, it is derogatory. When someone describes something they dislike about their neighborhood as "ghetto" or when they use it to describe it as not meeting their standards, it reeks of arrogance.

I have talked to VP and while she may not be in the elite privileged, she also isn't disadvantaged as I would define it. She is able to feed herself, travel, shop, etc. I would say for the majority of us on VJ who have the time to surf the net, talk to our spouses/fiances in foreign countries, travel, etc, to come even remotely close to labeling ourselves as "disadvantaged" would be erroneous.

All I can think about now is the Elvis song about the ghettos.

I think your husband is greedy....realtionships are not built on gifts and giving lots of gifts do not measure love.

and let's not forget prune jews, pineapple jews, and so on

Absolutely not- no apology needed.





The use of ghetto IS an elitist and arrogant term. Words are powerful and too often I think we use them without understanding them. Arguing that the word ghetto means something competely different to you and scratching your head because you can't understand why people might be offended ignores the history of the word and demonstates ignorance of language.

You're a mess !

She is asking if people spoil their husbands, not saying she sent him all that stuff and definitely not saying that her husband is greedy.

I'm always amazed at what people see when they read. I'm not sure how a discussion between my husband and I about women who do this makes my husband greedy. Especially since I have not said that this is what he is expecting me to do; he does not. The conversations were simply the impetus for my own interest in who does this and why, not a request for critiques about my husband, who has not shown himself to me to be a greedy person.
Thank you, Sarah!

The use of ghetto IS an elitist and arrogant term. Words are powerful and too often I think we use them without understanding them. Arguing that the word ghetto means something competely different to you and scratching your head because you can't understand why people might be offended ignores the history of the word and demonstates ignorance of language.

No ignorance of the history of the word. In fact, it was the history of the word I was introducing. That there is a connotation, the Jewish ghetto, and a denotation, a use that could be determined to be derogatory, is not mutually exclusive. The word "ghetto" itself is a slang, an Italian slang. Another fact is that there are ghettos, and it is politically correct to try to deflect from that fact.

Merely using the word does not make it a perjorative. I suspect that we should let the person who originally used it here, setting off this peripheral discussion, to define it the way she meant it, for it does have different meanings to different people and no one among us is responsible for that. I should admit that I tend to have an intellectual rather than an emotional reaction to such terms.

no problem, I think someone has a reading problem maybe.

Still, how do you know VP is an advantaged white person? Did she tell you that, or are you assuming it?

Are Cherokee white? My driver's license says so

Seriously... I don't see what it matters if a person chooses to live somewhere or not... if it's ghetto it's ghetto....

If we're talking about how the word is used today then everyone can take a deep breath and step off because it's used as slang to describe just about anything today
ETA: especially here in the south.. everything is ghetto fabulous

In my haste, I got one sentence turned around:

That there is a denotation, the Jewish ghetto, and a connotation, a use that could be determined to be derogatory, is not mutually exclusive.

I stand corrected.

She did describe what she meant in a previous post:


"First of all, my ex husband is not white.
Secondly "ghetto" is a slang term used a lot. If you take offense to it that's your business.. I don't and I use it and hear it used a lot.
I also don't think a person's race has anything to do with whether they live in a particular neighborhood or not. The place I was referring to in my post was a trailor park... my husband was the only "person of color" in the whole park. I am the only "white" person on the street I live in now. It doesn't make a difference to us. The first key to getting past racism is seeing past the races. "

marks this day on my calendar

Are Cherokee white?

Cherokees find ghetto living in NC and OK. Been to both.

I'm not sure how you missed it, but Rebecca clearly described in her last paragraph why she doesn't consider VP to be disadvantaged.

She did describe what she meant in a previous post:


"First of all, my ex husband is not white.
Secondly "ghetto" is a slang term used a lot. If you take offense to it that's your business.. I don't and I use it and hear it used a lot.
I also don't think a person's race has anything to do with whether they live in a particular neighborhood or not. The place I was referring to in my post was a trailor park... my husband was the only "person of color" in the whole park. I am the only "white" person on the street I live in now. It doesn't make a difference to us. The first key to getting past racism is seeing past the races. "

And this is offensive because . . .

Because it comes from the mouth of the horrible veiled princess... Didn't you get the memo?

Based on your racist remarks here, the whole point of this conversation is clearly lost on you. It is not used as a slang to describe "just about everything", and EVERYONE doesn't use it. I'm pretty sure you choose the words that come out of your mouth, as evidenced by your disgusting display of ignorance. "Everything" isn't anything, anywhere, and I'm sure there are plenty of people from the south, living in the south who would not describe their geographical location in the way you have.

Charles, you never fail to make me laugh out loud. Thanks for bringing some humor to this forum where major PMS seems to be the rule.

Because "it is a slang term used a lot" shows that she is using the term in a derogatory way, because that is what the use of the word in slang is. She isn't writing a research paper.

It just occured to me that perhaps what is racist thinking is perpetuating the idea that ghetto refers to concentrations of disadvantaged minorities. It is the racists, after all, that associated that word with that connotation. Perhaps it is less racist to disengage from that meaning.

ty

That's an excellent idea. Once there are no longer ghettos in this country, perhaps we can throw the word out altogether. But until then, it's use as slang for things undesirable is elitist and arrogant.

Given what a ghetto has been and is, using the word to describe the things a person thinks they are above is elitist, and can easily go hand in hand with racism/prejucide and stereotyping.

That's an excellent idea. Once there are no longer ghettos in this country, perhaps we can throw the word out altogether. But until then, it's use as slang for things undesirable is elitist and arrogant.

Well, peezy, that's the way you see it, just as you were explaining to me what "we" were talking about, as if I wasn't part of the discussion. But that doesn't make your view the mutually exclusive one, nor does it make your right.

Really, szsz? I am actually shocked right now to read that you do not find the use of the word in this way as terribly racist. You are an excellent teacher of Islam, and particularly eloquent and sensible when you talk about relationships. I am having a really hard time understanding why it is that someone with your level of education and deep respect for fairness and justice would see things the way you do.

I've made it clear that, for me, there is way too much pc thinking here, and that makes it oh so easy for someone to be offended, as pc thinking is beased on emotion rather than logic, which makes just about anything offensive. I don't buy into pc thinking, so I'm not so easily offended, nor do I see a boogeyman around every corner.

Ghetto is a subjective term, some are offended by it, some are not. I happen not to be offended by it. I don't see the big deal. I can also separate the use of the term with the fact that there are poor people in the world. Arguing about the use of the word doesnt make them less poor.

I'm sorry who are you? You've been here for a hot minute and want to come here telling me of my "ignorance"? Take a leap buddy.

uh oh, someone feels challenged!

There is nothing derogatory about "ghetto fabulous"

I still stand by the logic that words are powerful and until we can become sensitive to the use of words we will never learn to communicate effectively. Conflict resolution (be it a disute betwen friends or a international dispute) begins with listening and effective language. I don't call that PC

Does it matter who I am? Make something up, it's irrelevant to the discussion. You asked me the same question the last time I challenged you. Get over it and move back to the topic.

someone in this conversation is challenged alright... mentally challenged

especially when it's written across the "junk in the trunk"

I don't recall ever seeing you on this board before.

haha this is the part when VP knows she can't win so she resorts to childish name calling.

you're gonna get reported........

why? It's clear what she is doing now.

Unlike some JR high school students here I am not in a popularity contest and there is nothing to win... the only thing to be won is the VISA!
If you or others don't like what I write then don't read it... no one is forcing your eyes here.

i know, i was referencing another, very recent thread

Sarah... you are free to take a long walk off a short peer

We just need to get a thread pinned called "Sarah & VP's fight thread." Then whenever you two (and a few others who seem to enjoy the childish crap) feel the need to act 10 years old again you can just go there and pull each other's hair and quit messing up every thread on this forum with your childish banter.

Is that a dig at little people, or did you mean pier?

I don't think it's a question of liking or not liking what you write or who you are. When ideas are put on a discussion forum, they get discussed. If you write something I disagree with, i'm going to reply. It's the nature fo the board.