I agree. Just because I don't consider someone a "buddy" doesn't mean I don't like them.

But it's pretedictable who will constantly bicker on here and who won't. The same ppl rubbing eachother the wrong way over and over and over again. When do they just start to avoid eachother? That's really the part that makes me wonder. But it all does make for interesting reading.







I got it now...

Of course I didn't intend to drag JP into this, but she happened to be involved in the conversation that came into my mind. I don't think that is dragging someone into something though, and if anything she could help me remember what I might be wrong about.

I swear, some folks lose their minds on the boards for no discernable reason. I always come in as guest or anonymous because, on some threads, I'd be embarassed to have my screen name seen even at the bottom.

Some people thrive off of controversy!

I don't dislike VP. I can't really explain our relationship but I would say that we both feed off of eachother big time. We know we can rile eachother up. A problem I have had for a while is that I don't stop if someone is annoying me and I don't just give up. In some things it's good and in others it's bad, however it can be entertaining!


VP knows I don't hate her... right? We're bickering buddies.

What about me?

oh sorry I don't hate you either.

Sarah I promised Ewok I would place you on iggy so...
I don't want to fight here. I'm sick of it. It stresses me out and I have enough stress without this childish nonsense.
I honestly do not care if you or anyone else likes me or not. The only thing I require in my life is Allah... He has provided me with a two beautiful children and a wonderful husband. My short term goal is to get my family together in one place.... nothing more.

or maybe you 2 can call a truce?

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." Carl Jung

So wait does that mean you spoil him? haha

I have never really trusted psychiatrists

wowzers. honestly i dont 'know' anyone on this board. i have talked with a few of you off board but nothing that would say 'oh this is my friend or this isnt my friend' i am close with one or two but i guess i really dont fit in here cause im not in a 'visa' process anymore. i come here to read about how other people are doing in their journey because i care.

i realize there are a bunch of different temperments here and everyone or about everyone has come to learn and see that. each one of you has been under stress at one point in time about your journey, or you wouldnt be here......when people fight and bicker they need to stop and realize not to take it to heart.

yes i know that some things that are said are very hurtful and seem like personal attacks, those people that make them personal attacks need to ask themselves how they are better then the one they are attacking, each of you has been thru a tough situation and everyone has to make their own choices, whether or not it will piss someone else off.

we arent here to impress people, hell mostly we will never meet each other IRL this is the internet, a place where we can come to vent, to express differences, to support each other....................and so much more.

alright enuf of my jibber jabber. carry on

I agree completely with Jen3539 AND Sercontigo! If a guy is asking for gifts, then I would question much what he is in the relationship for. It goes the other way around, too....chicks asking guys for things.

And I think that it all depends on the relationship, who has the earning power, etc. You shouldn't try to "buy" someone's affection. But if you love them and you are secure in their love for you, and you can give without feeling used, and can give with all your heart, do so. Gifts are just another way of expressing affection and love. To some people that is very important. Part of relationships is learning what rings the other one's bells, if you know what I mean.

Gifts are not high on either of our priority lists, but I am definitely at this point the one with the earning power. I have seen when my fiance was extremely generous with me given his small income, and I know he will be again when he has the opportunity to earn. So it doesn't bother me to occasionally lavish things on him. What he has to give me, he gives with all of his heart and talent...

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Sercontigo. Nice handle!

i've been replaced

never Charles!

peace to you all:


i too haven't ever posted in this forum but i wanted to respond to two issues raised on this thread.

as a Black woman currently living in the U.S. i DO think the word "ghetto" is offensive. while Americans seems to habitually attempt to make light of degoratory terms, this language still holds the weight of politically charged and social constructed inequalities, injustices, racial/ethnic hatred, enforced poverty etc that still impact certain "minorities" everyday lives. thus i would refrain from using terms that could offend someone esp in spaces of public discourse such as this, though perhaps in more comfortable spaces such as with friends, where your intentions are obvious, one can be more carefree. it is not about being politically correct or emotional, rather it is about be sensitive and aware of the history of certain terms in their current cultural context.

secondly, i do buy mylove gifts. i sent him a digital camera for his birthday and send him money occassionally. he shares everything with me when i am in Ghana and though i makes grad student wages, i still have more access to money than him. so spoil him, yes, perhaps, but i love to contribute to his happiness and well-being in any way i can. we are not economic equals right now, this i have accept and release any stress related to it, as i chose to be with someone from a post-colonial nation. as a student of sub-saharran African culture i am well aware of the many reasons for this imbalance. when he is here in the States, we both hope that we be on more of equal footing financially. until then, material goods are simply that material and can not express or diminish the huge love we share for each other, we are family afterall, so we do what we can for each other, everytime.

and if by any chance, it is revealed that he is "using" me than so be it. i rather act from a place of love than fear. my generousity will come back to me ten-fold!

p.s. i do enjoy this forum, lots of energy, craziness and affection! happy quick visa journies to you all.

O wow awwwwwwwwwwww so sweet Moroccoo4ever!

And that is what this place is supposed to be.

I would know this word too, but as you said deeshla, not nice, so will reframe

I don't think everyone would agree with you. I am not welcomed as a friend here. We all don't know each other, and we aren't all welcomed here, as you have explicitly stated each time I've chosen to post. I find it terribly patronizing and insulting you have taken zetku's eloquent explanation of her opinion of this and only referred to her comment at the end as the explanation for why you choose to continue to believe you are right in this matter.

Words are often very subjective. I don't get worked up by the use of the work ghetto. Unlike "nigger", an unambiguously perojorative term, I don't associate it exclusively to the US minority experience. You don't like it, peezy, zetku doesn't like it, for your own reasons. That is your perogative, as it is ours not to be incensed about it.

We can agree to disagree.

Who said you're not welcomed?
What do you mean "everytime you post"? I have noticed you once and said something to you because you were bring nasty to me and calling me names.
I certainly never said you weren't welcomed... I consider most people here my friends.... even you

wow. i haven't ever posted here, i share that i'm a Black woman, i extend a thoughtful explaination on the politics of an offensive word that absolutely does have racial implications, several of them in fact, and therefore why one should be sensitive to its particular degrading implications, and then one misquotes me and trivalizes my response, and another uses a highly offensive racist term used to systematically to stigmatize and brutalize Black people just to make her point, deflect from her priviledged position and/or condone her sloppy intellectualizing....

whatever the case, peace ladies, this forum is all yours.

You don't know me, zetku. You don't even know what color I am or what my social situation is, so calling me "privileged" is merely a rude red herring you're using to justify your self-righteous outrage. That kind of manipulation doesn't move me at all. I wish you the best, but public discourse is not the place for the overly sensitive.

I most certainly did not "misquote you". I took it straight from your post. I wasn't trivializing anything either... you said it's different in a setting amongst friends and I was pointing out that on this particular section of this board... that's what it is.

She said in a "more comfortable environment where your intentions are known".....that is not the case here. Just because you know a few people, and consider them friends, you do not know all who read this board and participate here. You most certainly trivialized zetku's response and took what you wanted from it and disregarded everything she had to say on the matter as a person who has personal experience with this particular word/situation.

As for calling you names, I did not call you anything. I said your comments and your continual insistence that using this word is just fine because it's slang were racist. I believe someone can act in a way that is racist, due to misinformation, lack of information or experience, but not be a racist person to the core.

You actually said I was racist, ignorant and arrogant.

You're correct, peezy, when you say that this is a forum where all intentions are not known. So, why is it that, not knowing someone's intention, there is a propensity to assume the worst? We know that we all come from different backgrounds and experiences.

Taking that into account, it's only intellectually honest to know that there will be disagreements and words that will have differing impacts on different people. The process of civil public communication requires us to proceed with this in mind, but it does not require us to acquiese to the lowest common denominator among us that demands for the majority to surrender our individuality to the minority. We can and should be allowed to examine our various perspectives, but to be persecuted for them is too much to ask. One who doesn't care to operate as part of an open, free-flowing group is free to leave at any time. I am not suggesting that you do this, but only serving to remind you that demanding agreement on points where you yourself are not prepared to be flexible will only frustrate you.

Again, go back to my posts. I never, not even once, "called" you anything. I explicity said over an over "the use of the word is arrogant and elitist" and "remarks that are racist". Things are not absolutes in this world, therefore, I know very well that someone may say things or act in a particular way that isn't necessarily in accordance with their values as a whole. This is why attacks on a person are not relevant to any debate, and this is why I didn't make attacks on you as a person, someone I do not know personally, but did attack your use of the word and your reasoning for doing so.




There is no flexibility with racism, and there is no flexibility when it comes to words that carry indelible reminders of a long history of oppression, and a continuing present socio-economic system supporting the same. I do not disagree words have differing impacts on different groups and people. I do believe strongly, though, that it is my responsibility as a citizen of this planet to speak up when words are misappropriated, misused, used maliciously, or used without care. No one is asking you to acquiese your opinion or individuality. And I haven't demanded anything from anyone here, I have only expressed my opinion, which you all seem to do readily and quickly. Why is it that my opinion has become a demand for something? In fact, I believe we are both just disussing here, however, it seems you are telling me there is nothing more to discuss, so I may just shut up now?

Don't take it personal VP, she's called me a racist before too. I guess since I left the other group she had to come here to find people to call racists.

Zetku, please do not be offended by us. I did read your post and do not want to offend you. I also noticed that you used the word Black instead of African-American. I've taken a lot of heat for doing the same. I personally chose to use Black over African-American because I have many dark-skinned friends who are from Jamaica and Haite, and so the second name would be a misnomer. Also, my husband is truly African-American, but doesn't like the term either.

If I had it my way we would all be different desert toppings which in no way identify race and merely indicate shades of something most people love - dark chocolate, milk chocolate, caramel, whipped cream - you name it. One of my favorite blues singers is Guy Davis and he uses the word Chocolate a lot. I liked that when I heard him because that was how I always saw it.

I guess my point is, something just about everyone says will probably offend someone who uses that word differently. Ghetto is quite a popular slang word in this country now if TV is any indication of popularity. I don't even watch much of it, but I've seen ads on the internet for shows and movies, and I listen to popular music on the radio. I don't see how it is any different for a white person to call where they live a ghetto than it is for a black person to do so. That seems racist to me in itself.

The blacks in Haiti and Jamaica also originally came from Africa originally. They were brought there as slaves. If they have since moved here, they are in fact African Americans.

Liz, I'm pretty sure you won't ever see how hilarious you sound accusing me of trying to find and weed out racism. I know, it's a terrible goal to have. I should be ashamed of myself.

Why is it you would bring in outside conversations into this group? Would you like to lay it out here? Because I'd guess you wouldn't once you considered it more thoroughly. Not only would it be exceedingly distasteful, it is against the TOS of VJ, and I'm sure you don't want to be reprimanded for something that would ultimately end up in embarassment for you. Also, keep in mind this discussion began long before you left the outside group, so your comment is irrelevant here.

Now, to get back to the discussion at hand, I am curious now why you are changing your opinion of the use of the word in question? Last week you made the following statements:


"Whenever he did come over he said he was spending the weekend in the "ghetto" and we didn't take it as a huge insult. We knew his father was just ignorant."

"If the racists in our town see our neighborhood as the ghetto, that's fine by me - it keeps them out."

But today it seems you are excusing away the use of the word because it is used as slang and it's on TV and by kids, and in popular music, etc.

Which is it? Ignorant & racist, or acceptable because it occurs in pop music?

specifically, the vj tos states: Post any information obtained or originally transmitted in confidence or with the implied belief that the message was to be kept in confidence without the express permission of the original author of the communication. Additionally any direct communication (with the exception of publicly viewable Posts on the discussion forums) between administrators or moderators and a member are strictly prohibited from being Posted to the discussion forums or retransmitted in any way.

if someone talks about something said on the yahoo mena forum in vj, how was the tos violated as the mena forum was not a private communication between only 2 people. all on the board could read it.

Thankfully, Charles, there are many, many, many more groups in existence than the yahoo mena forum. Liz is not referring to that group. She is referring to a closed communication that has the explicit expectation of confidentiality.

She is talking about a different Yahoo Group. The front page and membership guidelines of that group clearly state that anything shared in that group is to be kept private.

Get over yourself, peezy. I've known people like you all my life. They love the power they get by screaming racism and then having the white folks among them fall over themselves to appease you. I'm not a fan of those who play victims when they are obviously not. I have no idea what your story is other than appearing on the scene to try to cow others when they say something you deem unacceptable, but you won't get anywhere with me. I'm a citizen on this planet, too, and I know that there are more effective ways to create change than coming on a discussion board throwing your weight around about oppression, as if no one knows a damn thing about it besides you.

So, there, you have my opinion. Since you say I have a right to it, respect that and stop complaining about how some disagree with you. That's life, suck it up.

such might get a person in hot water with that group, but i've not seen ewok worry too much about sites other than vj and i'd be surprised if he enforced the vj tos over the alleged incident above.

Couldn't this applied both ways, as is usually the case in forums such as this?

You're right, it will mean little in terms of rules here, however, my point had more to do with the ensuing embarassment of said leaker should she choose to go the route of breaking the confidentiality of the outside group. Not to mention cluttering a board with things that are meaningless to others. But you seem to be up for some voyeurism.

Ewok may not enforce it but the TOS do not say where the private communication has to come from.

No doubt, but someone has to say it first, so I have.

Please explain where I've screamed. Also, explain where I might get any power from here, on this board, where no one knows me, and I'm sure we don't live anywhere near each other? Finally, explain the whole statement about "white folks appeasing me".....where am I in this scenario? White, not white, male, female? I honestly don't understand what you are saying here.

And so you say there are more effective ways to create change than a message board, so that means the people here aren't worth discussing things with? It's a lost cause and therefore ineffective?

Again, you certainly may have your own opinion. I just don't understand when I express mine, I'm supposed to shut up and suck it up and stop discussing? Wouldn't the complaining go both ways? You are complaining as well, about me, are you not?

As you mentioned earlier, we have choices, to come to the boards or not.

You're not discussing it, you're demanding conformity. Maybe that's your style and you don't see it, so you just don't get it.

By stringing out your argument about the meaning of words in the face of resistance from those who do not see the words as you do, you obviously have a goal in mind. What do you want from us if not appeasement and agreement? You cloak your protests behind the fascade of racism and oppression, two buzz words that are offered with the expectation that no one wants to be thought of as racist or oppressive, so, from what I've known about such positions, we are supposed to just fold to avoid the negative labels. Well, no one's folded, so what are you going to do when those you have targeted are not moved to acquiese to your claims?

I'm curious. You are arguing with people who are not budging, so, where is this going?

Liz once again- DO NOT BRING OTHER GROUPS TO THIS FORUM. Don't call people out for doing something to you in another group and coming after you here... grow up!

If you want to play that game however I would be more than happy to share things I have read from you in yahoo groups.

it could be, but i'd imagine that first ewok would want some proof. if off site then how would he know?


it's pretty much a given that such applies to vj as in pm's and such.

This portion has nothing to do with multiple forums. I have no knowledge of the yahoo site being discussed.

Sarah, I have disclosed nothing from the other group. All I did was identify you as someone who harrassed me somewhere else who has decided to bring it here. You are the number one reason I left that group, and the reason I've blocked you here. I only see what you say when someone quotes you.

I only told Rebecca that I felt that she was harrassing me here because I quit the group, because frankly her arguments here with me last night and today have been illogical and indicate that she is in an agitated state of mind (loaded with misspellings and poor grammer, not typical of her).

I didn't expect anything different of you Sarah, because I've come to see that you just love being a hater - of anything and anybody.

I am disappointed in you Rebecca. I thought better of you than to come here and attack a friend just because I don't want to be a part of your group any more.

Since neither of you seem to be able to be logical any more, I'll just ignore both of you and avoid the hassle of trying to understand more stupidity.