Kiya,

How do we go about doing that? >>>

(If you have a particular complaint, there are channels you can go through at the state department. This is something that you might bring to the attention of either an attorney to put on the liaison agenda with the Department of State or possibly go through the American Immigration Lawyers Association and media people. If the story is good enough, they might just adverte it, along with radio stations.)

I wonder who and how "they" decide if the story is good enough???? Aren't we all good enough? It seems to me your question was not really answered but another subject all togther was brought up.

I wrote to President Bush right after we were denied in March 05 who kindly replied and forwarded my concerns to the Department of State who by the way took 6 months to write back and tell me what I already knew! They did not answer one question that I had asked. I wrote back to the DOS immediately (October 05) and have not yet received a reply. I wonder if I will get another response in 6 months? April will be 6 months since I wrote back to DOS.

Lol... truely I am finding out more and more that our government is just to big. The letter that I received and responded to was from Dale Rumberger (for Julie Furuta-Toy, Director of Public and Diplomatic Liaison Visa services). I guess she didn't have time to answer me herself. The best that he could tell me was what I already knew, the validity of the relationship was in question and for further questions or inquires I could contact BCIS! Passing the buck.

I did send off another letter to the DOS but I think it got lost in cyber space. I will never give up on this injustice to all of us who have been discriminated against! Even when my husband gets here. I am hoping you feel the same.

chiquita










Prena,

You are correct. There are 2 requirements to the lottery visa. One being a resident in the country that allows you to apply for it and having a high school education or it's equivalent (12 years of education). That info is posted on the website.

uffff...
I dont know much about the visa lottory because, pakistan is not allow to enter it. I do have a friend in the USA on the visa lottory. he is a rocket scientist. he wants to shift gears and is working on becoming a Dr of something.

psst. I am trying to get him to help me on my next science class..lol

Some phone numbers>>>

Bureau of Consular Affairs

OFFICE OF DIPLOMATIC AND PUBLIC LIAISON

Director Julie Furuta-Toy 202-663-3579


Public Inquiries Division Chief Karla Gentile 202-663-3623

Diplomatic Liaison Division Chief Dale Rumbarger 202-663-3211

Visa and Information Microlog 202-663-1225

Visa Priority Data Microlog 202-663-1541

Congressional Inquiries 202-663-1516

Prena, I was trying to say that the bac was the equivalent of our high school diploma, not sure how I confused you. What I meant after that was that here when we say baccalaureate, we are referring to our bachelor's, so it is hard for us to make the transition to using that term for a high school diploma.

I discussed the diversity lottery visa issue with Abdel. He said that most people there who apply for the diversity visa don't speak English, so they get someone to translate and fill out the application for them. He knows this because he reads English really well, so he was one person that was asked quite frequently. He said that even though the translator would tell the person that the bac was a requirement, as clearly stated on the application, most people would shrug it off and say to just fill in the application, maybe the consulate wouldn't care.

The applications clearly stated the requirement, it's not the consulate's fault that people thought they would ignore the requirement. I'm not trying to defend the consulate, just explain that maybe they're a little ticked off right now, and majorly overworked. I know if I was working there right now I'd be starting to get pretty frustrated at people ignoring what is clearly stated and wasting my time.

I stay weeks behind at my job, so I frequently get calls from people wanting me to move their stuff to the top of the pile. It isn't easy to deal with being behind, but corporate America, including our government offices, seems to think that if you can't do the work of 3 people you are incompetent. I personally ask the priority of things when they hit my desk and try to stick to that order whenever possible, but I can tell you it isn't easy. I can imagine that the workload at the consulate is much worse than mine, so it must be even more impossible for them.

I don't say all this to justify their actions. I know many lives are on hold because of their problems. I just think that if we approach them when we deal with them with an attitude of acknowledgment of how things probably are, it can really help to get a positive response from them. I deal with the government daily, and from what I've seen that approach gets a lot better results than screaming about my rights. Sortof the old saying: "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". I know some of you have tried the sweet route and gotten nowhere, and I really feel bad for you for that.

Chiquita: I emailed that attorney to find out what 'channels' she is talking about. I am waiting on a response from her. I will definitely share it.

~Kiya~

I was talking to Hicham last night about the diversity lottery requirements of having the high school diploma. He said some people used to go to a private school and basically get a certificate of attendance thru grade 12 and the consulate thought that was the diploma. Then...they started investigating and finding out how many of them were fraudulent. It seems they could just have their hands full with the DV applicants! (It is no excuse, but I know I the day Hicham went for his interview there were a good 20-25 DV interviews and he said something like 2 of them got a visa.)

Twila

Ok I found some information out incase someone wants to know I asked a friend so im copying what they said.

first time to go to school u study in a primary school 6 years then in another school 3 yrs then high school 3 yrs in the 3rd year if u success u get Bac ( Baccalauréat in french ) then u have a choice to continue in a university ( i think u call it College ) or an insitut 2 yrs or 3 or 4 .... as u want, for 5 yrs in a university then u get master and 7 yrs its ..... i dont know it in english ... its Doctorat in french

This is in morocco they said.

I know I started this long discussion about the messed up priorities of the Moroccan Consulate. But what can we do about it to make the family visa priority #1 as they should be?

I know the Moroccan consulate is holding these lottery visas, but can't they see on it clearly these people do not qualify if they don't qualify why do they even get a letter and an interview?

What can we do to get our rights for our families?

And at the same time how can we help Moroccan's from getting false hope and wasting money?

I don't know how to fix this problem, but I wanted to share this with everyone so they can know why it could be taking so long so they are not afraid their cases are lost and they have no hope.

Paula

thats crap- where they get off saying DV are more important, we got our hands full. WTF is that! family members are supposed to have priority!

They dont do interviews right I remember when my husband had his two previous travel visa interviews. It wasnt even three days and he had the interview that next week. Now how can they do that so fast but us so dang slow? Id say family means more then a traveling trip.

That is exactly the reason family visas are so slow. They are not asking for a simple visit, they are asking to reside in that country for a long period of time. Therefore, they want to check that person out to make sure that their country will be safe from harm. We went through Amman, Jordan and it was not a nice process.. many many k1 were going thru so much faster than our cr1. I was so mad and just couldn't understand why a fiance could get here with no problems but a spouse took so much longer. I believe it was shonjaved that said "the reason why the priority is favorable to k-1s are because, the goverment has heads up on whom you are bringing over to marry. when you marry withou their knowledge they get pissed off about. they dont have warning so they pentalize us. bottomline the goverment can not play cupid. " This makes sense to me now that I think about it. It doesn't make the waiting any easier or any more understandable but it does make sense that the people that are going to adjust status here can possibly be denied and sent back to their country whereas husbands/wifes will be coming to stay....

by the way.. add me to the list of petitioners to get your topic pinned

the thing that sucks is we all are family members trying to be reunited with our familys according to the precious family life act. my beef is thats not happening. for every guideline the USICS has . there is another rule to trump that- its called AP/AR. however, the situation at this embassy seems to be the " return petition " trump card.

AP/AR means what ever they want it to mean.

That statement about K1 Visa's doesn't make sense at all to me. I think that is just someons wrong feeling, because are coming to get married those of us that married in Morocco notified the Consulate before we even started the marriage process so I think that is a bunch of BS and nothing more. Sorry, but it makes no sense and can only give people false hope that the K1 is better than the K3 because of a false statement.


But they should be handling all family based visas before any others. And to say they are checking these people out for the family visas is a lie, they have been checked out before they come to the Consulate and they only sit and wait to be touched to set up our interviews, then more waiting for the big interview date. They don't start checking our security until the interview when they finally take the fingerprints. Why can't they take the fingerprints when we are doing the physical exam, that way the security check stands a chance to be back before the interview so if approved they don't scare you to deaf with limited scary imformation, making you worry for up to a couple weeks that you will not get the visa, until you get the visa finally. Morocco must have a policy of not explain anything or letting you really know why you are not getting the visa, if you are getting the visa they don't tell you until you get the visa call come and pick it up. They must want to not mislead so they don't share any information worth anything.

Paula

At first, I had wondered that too. Why not get the fingerprints done at the time of the medical? After I thought more about it, however, it made financial sense. Not everyone going through the consulate is going to be approved. Can you imagine the FBI backlog if ALL applicants had their fingerprints submitted? Holy heck! People would be waiting 5 times as long as they are now. I also had wondered why when entering on a K-1 and having to adjust status you had to go back through all the checks. I have since found out that fingerprints/IBIS check/etc. have a 90 day limit. So...if it has been longer than that, here you go again!

Twila

BTW...I saw my name on the inside of my husband's folder at our AOS interview showing they had done an IBIS check on me too! (YES...I kept my eyes on his folder. I was amazed at the stuff they keep. All the envelopes you ever mailed anything to them in, etc.)

That's cool to know Twila. I wondered if they did background checks on us too. I was worried that could be a problem for me because I work government contracts so I have security clearance. We're briefed frequently about how we can't disclose anything to a non-US citizen so I was afraid they wouldn't want to let me marry a foreigner.

I don't really know anything secret, but sometimes I know confidential stuff so I have to talk to Abdel about what I do at work really vague. He finally asked me if it was just to him, or if it was that way with everyone. I had to explain to him that if it hasn't been in the newspaper, I can't talk about it. I tried to explain to him that it's that way even with our commercial customers. When John Travolta bought one of our planes I didn't even know about it until I read it on the internet, and I sit right next to the commercial contracts group. Nobody famous wants local people to know when they might be in town so they can come in and out without getting mobbed by fans I guess.

It's not like I want to keep secrets, but I'm the one that negotiates most of the proprietary information agreements for the company so if anybody should know what is expected of them it's me. With anybody other than Abdel I can just blow it off by being "blonde." "this one customer bought this plane and....". With Abdel, it's different. Neither one of us like to keep secrets from the other so I sometimes feel like he feels a little betrayed by it.

Do any of the rest of you have to deal with not being able to talk too much about work? If so, how does your spouse handle it? How do you handle it? This is the first time I've had to really deal with this since I've been single most of the time I've worked here, and Mustapha never cared about my work so he didn't ask questions or talk to me about it. Also, I didn't have the same level of responsibility when I was married to him that I have now.

Well that really sucks! I have a job with confidential information too, but only with our companies financial statement, so nothing at all interesting to anybody. I don't know how you can handle this because I freak keeping any secrets at all from my husband. I am sure he will understand though.

I know i got checked out it was not a secret to me. I expected it too becuse of my job. they did check me out -I interviewed for my husbands Cr1.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pin this thread. I am awaiting my fiancee's interview and reading through this thread has provided me the information I need to only make my case for appeal (if possible and necessary) but it also helped put my mind at ease. There is an accountability factor regarding Consulate Officers I was not aware of. THANK YOU!

My lady in China interviewed Dec 1, 2005 and was given a 221 (G) for additional processing and stated will take 3 months. Still waiting. Hope there will be a happy ending soon.

Samuel

Patience seems to be the name of this game, and its a crazy ride sometimes. I hope that you will be together with your sweet heart as soon as possible.

I know exactly where you are coming from. I cant tell my honey the specifics of my job either. No names, no places, no dates, no nothing. It can be quite frustrating, especially when you are trying to relate a humourous story from work. (Such as encountering a client lacking the sense God gave a shovel.) Once you get past the language hurdle, then you have to omit half the identifying information, and throw in the fact that he doesnt exactly understand what I do for a living anyway, and you're left with a blurry afterimage of what used to be a story so funny you almost wet yourself laughing when it started. All this explaining, without really explaining anything after all. It like saying you have twelve toes, sometimes you'd rather just keep your shoes on.

I get hit from both sides, too. I also have immediate family with a security clearance so strict, they're not even allowed to speak with foreign nationals. It can make for trying times when it comes to keeping the lines of communication open.

But Ahmed is pretty understanding about it. His mastery of English improves rapidly and there will come a day when he will be able to put 2 and 2 together and not feel like he has been (unintentionally) left out of the loop. I suspect the same will be true for your SO, given a little time and patience.

K-1 are non-immigrant visas, marriage visas are immigrant visas. It's the categories that they are in that makes the difference.

Add me to this bandwagon too!

NO MORE EVIL CO'S WITH CASA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the by... add me to the list. Im all for it! Anything we can do to raise awareness of the problem in Casablanca and, hopefully, prevent it from happening in the future.

This issue should definately be PINNED! It is too serious to get buried away! If this happened to any one of us here, we would panic and need as much info as possible readily available.

Alhamdulillah! You have pulled an old post out of its grave, shukran! Yes, this should be pinned!

There is a lot of information ... very basic but vital information that anyone who is faced with this issue needs to know. There is no "guide" pinned anywhere on this site regarding this issue.

We continue to see this happening constantly, and I have noticed more and more from other consulates, not just Morocco. Also, it's not just happening to K1s...it's happening to them all, CR1, K3. This information does need to be placed where people can find it, it can actually help someone who has no idea of where to turn or what to do, or even what to expect.

I would be more than happy to create a summarization or guide of what you can do and what you can expect when faced with this issue. Of course this is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer...it is however straight from research and experience of my own and others whom I know have gone through and are currently going through this return process.

I will post here some basic 'what to expect' information...maybe it can help.

Here is what is happens when a petition is returned:

• 221(g) is issued to beneficiary at conclusion of the interview stating the application and/or petition is being returned to the United States.
• Petition is returned to the United States by the interviewing consulate for "further review" in what is called a diplomatic pouch.
• Returned petition is received by the NVC. It is reviewed and entered into the fraud database by fraud management.
• Returned petition is sent to the local service center where the petition was originally filed.
• Local service center receives returned petition.
• Local service center who processed the original petition sends a notice of receipt to the petitioner.
• Local service center reviews the returned petition and consular officer notes on the case.
• Local service center then sends either a NOID (Notice of Intent to Deny) or NOIR (Notice of Intent to Revoke) to the petitioner also asking for more proof of the relationship, many cases have specific consular objections to rebut.
• Petitioner is given 30-60 days from date of NOIR/NOID (depending on the service center) to respond with additional evidence of the relationship or other specific evidence. The timeframe to respond will be provided in the letter.
• Local service center receives evidence...if in the timeframe given (30-60 days) the case is reviewed and either reaffirmed or denied.
• If the petition is denied the local service center sends the petitioner an 'official' denial letter. This can be be appealed if the denial letter states such.
• If the petition is reaffirmed the local service center sends the petitioner an official notice of reaffirmation.
• Local service center sends the reaffirmed petition AND its evidence provided in the rebuttal directly to the consulate along with a recommendation to issue a visa.
• Consulate notifies the beneficiary of a new interview date.
• Beneficiary has interview for the reaffirmed petition and the visa is either issued, or the case in placed in Administrative Processing which after cleared a visa is issued, or worst case scenario it is denied via 221(g) and returned again to the USCIS.

What can you do immediately when faced with this issue:

• Immediately have the beneficiary send a scanned copy of the 221(g) issued.
• Contact the consulate directly (immediately) and attempt to have the petition reviewed by the senior consular before it is returned.
• If you are unable to get through to the consulate on the phone, contact them via email, and if you're mail has a "read verification" use it.
• Contact your congressman/senator, get them involved immediately. You will need to sign a release form giving them permission to make an inquiry on your behalf.
• Provide your congressman/senator with as much information as possible about your case, the interview, and the result.
• If your congressman/senator is top notch, they will not just send an email or letter to the consulate, they will call on the phone and try to get the petition reviewed again before it is sent back.
• If they are not successful, they can request the diplomatic pouch number the petition is being returned in. This number will allow you to track the petition until it is received by the local service center.

If the petition is returned, you are in for a wait. The diplomatic pouch the petition is returned in is sent from embassy to embassy picking up other returned petitions along the way. It could take up to 2 or 3 months for it to be received by fraud management at the NVC...then the NVC has the petition for about 1 month before sending it to the local service center where it was originally filed. One thing to also know is that returned petitions do not take priority...they are reviewed in the order they are received...that is after new petitions have been processed.

What you can do in the meantime while you wait:

• Continue contacting the consulate to get an actual reason for the return...not the blanket "validity of relationship" response.
• Stay in contact with your congressman/senator, they can assist you in getting the actual reason for denial.
• Immediately file a Freedom Of Information Act request for the Department of State asking specifically for the consular notes on your returned petition: DOS FOIA
• Immediately file for a Freedom of Information Act request for the USCIS asking for the same specific consular notes on your returned petition: USCIS FOIA
• Continue to document your relationship, emails, letters, phone bills, visits to their country, etc.
• Be ready for the opportunity to rebut the consular findings.
• Contact a good immigration attorney...preferrably one who has experience in returned and denied petitions.

Now, there are some differences between returned fiance petitions and marriage petitions. The K1 is especially at risk due to the expiration of the original approval, many returned K1s are not given the opportunity to rebut, they receive a notice telling them their K1 has expired and may file again at any time...this is why the FOIA is so important. You need to know the exact reason the petition was returned, just filing again is a huge risk if you do not know why the petition was returned in the first place.

While the K3 does have an expiration date also, they are treated more seriously. I have not known anyone who has had a returned K3 not being given the opportunity to rebut. Obviously the CR1 does not expire. Still, it is very important to file the FOIA, not every service center will tell you exactly what the consular office findings or objections to issuing the visa are. Some people are only asked to provide more evidence of their relationship.

Ok, sorry for the long post, but this is very important info that the USCIS or the consulate will ever give you...moreover, this is the information that needs to be pinned.

~Kiyah~

Edited for typos...I hate typos

Wow Kiyah, you are amazing. If there were a hand clapping yellow guy I'd sure give him to you here. Bless you for taking the time to help those who have been screaming for help.

From Maggie (and all of us) to Kiyah

Don't just thank me...there are many including me whose experience and research made the lists above possible.

I hate it when I read of more returns, it breaks open the old wound and it hurts all over again. I get angry and sad to know, really know how they feel when it happens to them.

I pray that this can at least give some hope and help to anyone this happens to. I pray they can reach a peace in their heart, have patience with this process, have the strength to stand up for their relationship, and know they are not alone.

I can tell you this, Chi, Morocco4Ever, and all the others I know who have gone through this have litterally been a God send. I really don't know what I would have done without them.

~Kiyah~

I sure understand when you say it opens old wounds. Every time I hear of another return I just get sick for them because I know exatly what they are feeling. When ours was returned I searched everywhere on returned petitions, with no success. After several months I finally ran into a couple of people who had had theirs returned as well. From them I learned where to start.

We really need this pinned. Its not fair that Kiya has to post the same thing over and over again. We can not pretend it doesn't happen, it does, and it seems to be increasing. What do we need to do to recognize this horrible situation so that those facing it don't have to wait for those of us who know has time to go into detail. Kiya has spelled out the process very well in spite of her lack of time. The detail behind each step is quite involved. People have questions above and beyond this list. I hate to see it buried so no one can find it.

if it does not get pinned, an idea is bookmarking this thread or saving the info as a text file so when someone asks you can either copy and paste from the text file or open the bookmark and bump the thread.

Please Captain Ewok... we need this pinned. It can affect anyone and is valueable
information.

Thanks 100000000000000! To kiya and all of the others that are putting information in here to help us. I have done osm eof the things that youve posted here. I know you can understand how helpful it all is. There is not a day that goes by where I am thinking to myself, is there something more I should be doing.

I emailed the DOS, or composed the letter for the FOIA, and they told emailed me back saying that it is a 3rd party request since it was about my husband. So he wrote a letter, mailed it to me giving me consent to request any infromation about his case. Am I missing something with this? I havent heard anything back yet.

I gotta say, that diplomatic pouch thing is for the birds!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder it takes so long!

Thanx again. You are more of a help than you know, and very modest! You too, MAGGIENOMAR, for passing on my info!

God bless you!



Limah

You are right, the diplomatic pouch part of this process is for the birds...also thrown into the mix is that Morocco does not send these petitions back right away even though the "guidelines" tell them how important it is to send returned petitions back in a timely manner.

I have heard of them sitting on them for longer than 1-2 months. My own petition sat there for nearly 6 weeks before it actually got sent back. Very frustrating to say the least, knowing you're in for a wait AND knowing the consulate just made it longer by sitting on it before sending it back.

~Kiyah~

I dont even want to think about it!

Glad I could help you.

Need to keep this going...bump.

chi

I requested that it be pinned AGAIN, yesterday. But no response. Of course, I rarely get responses. So maybe some of you could PM Captain Ewok to make the request. Maybe he'll listen to you guys...

Good Idea. Maybe a lot need to PM him?

chi

Yes, I think so. I asked people to do it in yesterday's daily thread, but I didn't get any reponses, so I bet no one did. I will post again about it there.

I did a report of the first post, asking that this thread get pinned.

I figured I would share this nice little f-u that I received in my email inbox.
Application Type: I129F , PETITION FOR FIANCE(E)

Current Status: This case has been received from the State Department with a request we review it.

On January 8, 2007, our VERMONT SERVICE CENTER location received this case from the State Department with a request that we review it. We will notify you when we complete our review, or if we need something from you. If you move while this case is pending, call customer service. You can also receive automatic e-mail updates as we process your case. Just follow the link below to register.

If you have questions or concerns about your application or the case status results listed above, or if you have not received a decision from USCIS within the current processing time listed*, please contact USCIS Customer Service at (800) 375-5283.

*Current processing times can be found on the USCIS website at www.uscis.gov under Case Status & Processing Dates.
*** Please do not respond to this e-mail message.


Sincerely,


The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)




On top if this I was touched today!!!! I am not sure what this is but hopefully I get the chance to send in my eviedence soon. I am sick of this waiting game already.

Best of luck to you, Private

Action..... alhoum dulillah! It is better than nothing, right? I hope its not too much longer. I guess from looking at your timeline, you husband interviewed a month before my husband. I hope I get this letter in about a month then. I know the cases are different but thats what I am looking for..........DATES.............. OOOOOOHHHH, ......Dates, it makes me think of my wedding party!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to say a HUGE ALHAMDULILLAH!!! Shukran bezaaf for pinning this issue!!!

Shukran rhama, jenn, chi...everyone who pushed for this!! It took nearly a year for this to be pinned. I got a PM from a dear friend telling me, I had no idea, I have not been to the site since this morning.

I wish you could have heard my voice when I saw it pinned, I actually screamed out loud! I swear I scared the dogs outside. I am grinning from ear to ear at this very moment! Believe me, this will help so many people affected by this issue.



~Kiyah~

This is good private, at least it is movement, and now you know your petition is located at the local service center where it was originally filed. I can tell you that the touch was most likely them sending you the email and moving your file from one desk to another. They are also supposed to generate a hard copy receipt notice and send it out as well.

Be patient uhkiti, don't give up hope, I know it is very hard, stay strong...it will happen insh'allah.

~Kiyah~

This is great!!!!!!!!!! To have it pinned will give so much help and hope to those who have gotten got up in this part of the process.

You're more than welcome. It's so important that this got pinned because, unfortunately, we do have a lot of people in MENA who need it. Thanks to Ewok!

Thank God this has been pinned! Now people can find help!




Erica this is a good step. I recieved this from the CSC in Dec of 2005. They reviewed our case in Aug of 2006. I am not trying to discourage you, but make you aware that you still have some time ahead of you. Take the time to smell the roses. They are there. This is the best way to keep your sanity through this madness.

Whoopeee its pinned!!! Thanks Cap'n!!!!!

chi