Just curious, has anyone who met their sweetie online hired a PI to check him/her out before going there? Not that I am thinking of doing this but was just curious since you just "never know" for sure, ya know?

Nope I just showed up at the airport.

However, it's always good to have a contingency plan - know how to get a taxi, know where the hotels are, access to money in case anything goes wrong.

Emergency Arabic, don't leave home without it

I didn't hire anyone, but I did get really lucky. I have a friend from Jordan (had nothing to do with our meeting). When I told her that I had started talking to this guy in Jordan, she offered to make some calls and check out his family for me.it turns out that even tho her mom's family is from another city, she is freinds with a family in his neighborhood. It was really wierd how small the world seemed that day, but it was awesome to learn from an unbiased source what a good family he came from and to confirm some things...its hard when you two are still strangers. Going out there is a big step on both sides, so if you get a way to check him out, I would tell anyone to do it.
Just one caution, in so many areas, the guys are so close and so similar that it seems they are all related or all up to the same thing. good luck finding someone that wouldn't tell your fiance or give you an biased picture of the situation.

You can also register your visit online with the Deparment of State. I did that and wasn't in my husband's city very long before the police showed up at the door and had me go register my visit with them. They wrote down when I got there, where I was staying and when I was leaving. I don't think this will hurt you when your visa is processed either. The government will have an official verification of your presence in his country.

Oh totally. I can just picture hiring someone there and then having that person let him know!!!! I'd feel like a total jackazz!!!

Nope, but I did have a back up plan.

Egypt has something similar, if perhaps unofficially. All the times I've been to Egypt, we've gone to the tourist police and registered my presense there. Bring extra copies of your passport because they'll keep a copy on file. In fact, it's a good idea to bring a ton of extra copies of the two front pages of your passport (the one with all the info and the picture), since you'll need it for that, marriage (probably) and if you're registering your shahada with Al Azhar.

If you don't have copies, some of the hole in a wall stores will have copy machnies, but the quality is usually not so hot.

I also registered with the U.S embassy

I'm definitely registering with the Dept of State and also with the tourist police but that's not the real investigating I was thinking of....


I'm more thinking along the lines of...is he already married, is he a "good guy" type thing. I hate even typing this since in my heart of hearts I know he is the best thing that ever happened to me and especially now I know he is geniune with what he's going through...but still the nagging in the back of my head since obviously he's half way around the world.

Couple that with the fact that my boss just sent me this link http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/760 and said she taped the show for me and now my wheels are turning. lol. Though the examples on that show were like, duh.....I would have spotted that one a mile away!



Yeah my backup plan is to have a kickin' vacation like no other!! I have the tours that I'd go on all printed out "just in case" and will make the best of a worst situation...though insha Allah that won't be needed.

There is always that chance. There have been a few people on this board who have been used for a green card, or who have found out that their loved ones aren't exactly what they thought.

You go into something with your eyes open, and if it isn't what you expected, then I guess you continue with life. I wish there were a way to know all of these things beforehand, but I'm not sure there is without contacts in the country who are willing to scope him out for you.

But even here in the US, you can marry someone and they'll do a 180 on you after you're married. It's a risk that people getting married take.

In today's day and age, it would not be a bad idea. Anyone that would object, if they found out, would lose some marks in my book. I'd think that the biggest issue would be to find a PI that you could trust. There are those that aren't on the up-and-up in this country. I'd recommend not paying the entire fee up front, and having the balance due upon delivery of the report if you do decide to proceed. Good luck.

Ok, reading through the first Dr. Phil segment.

Flag 1 - Asking for a lot of money before having met.
Flag 2 - just a picture, no webcams
Flag 3 - hasn't exchanged any basic information about family, work, etc etc etc

It's definately not your typical online romance.

I never thought to do that. I trust Mohamed..he's never given me reason not to. The fact that I was gonna stay in his family's home with his family and not in a hotel or flat made me more comfortable. Ppl talk in Egypt. If something's not right you'll hear about it soon enough.

Nope. However we arabs do a little bit of our own PI work. Kinda what Dawn described, people we know ask people they know if anyone knows the guy that is asking for my hand. Its just a big Grapevine. However the Jordanian population is so small that its not that hard to figure out who is who.

I don't know how you would find an honest PI in Egypt. I don't think anyone in the US could help with this and I wouldn't trust sending money to a PI in Egypt to do this, maybe Salwa can help or has an idea if you are unsure. You should PM her bcz I'm not sure how often she comes around anymore.

Yeah but you speak the language Moody!

Before I went to Morocco to meet Abdel, my ex who is also Moroccan begged me not to. He told me that with the unemployment rate so high there people will do anything to get out. He warned me that one of the women I might be meeting as Abdel's sisters might actually be his wife or a woman he would marry after he got here, got legal and divorced me. She would treat me great because I would be her mealticket out of Morocco or to a better life.

He also warned me that whole families would be in on the scam and would often spend their life savings to try to impress this woman who could get their son/brother to a country where he could work and easily repay them and then continue to contribute regularly to the support of the family.

He said he doubted that ANY marriage between a Moroccan and American was for any other reason. Of course he denied the whole time that he married me for a green card.

You can imagine that when I went to meet Abdel I was watching for all of this. I think one of the things that helped me trust him was that when I planned to go see him he was less concerned about me wanting to marry him than he was about keeping my friendship. Before I went he asked me to promise to be honest with him and if I didn't want to marry him just tell him. He said he would understand and still make sure I had a good vacation, because my friendship was so valuable to him that he would rather not lose that, even if I didn't want to be his wife. After I got back to the US and we worried about the visa process one way I was able to reassure him was promising to move there if he didn't get the visa.

Just a couple of weeks ago I found out that one of Abdel's own brothers thought that he married me for a green card. I found out because his brother said something to him about it on messenger and it infuriated him so much he quit talking to him. I wasn't aware of the conversation until he explained to me how mad he was at him. This brother was not around much when I was there and when he was he stayed very distant. He's talking to an American girl right now and I do feel sorry for her since I'm guessing he will use her that way. I'm really happy that my husband was so mad at his brother for even thinking like that about us. Even though I have chosen to trust my husband and not worry about it (except when I have PMS!), it was very nice to have such an affirmation of his real love for me.

I know it is hard to trust in these situations but you're the one who has to decide how much it will take to get that reassurance. I can't even imagine how one would go about finding a private investigator to do this kind of work. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Well actually I don't speak the language fluently. I understand more than I speak it. Anyways...if you stay with the family and something's not right you'll catch on...whether it's said in Arabic or English.

I had a couple of back-up plans, however, I had met Said in person first, then developed our relationship more online. Still, never having been to his country, knowing only him for the most part... I had ppl in place to assist me however I needed it. **I knew in my heart this would not be necessary, but I had to make sure I covered my azz, just in case.... so many ppl were so worried abt me going there. All the usual comments (ie: Have you seen "Not w/o my Daughter? ) So glad I went, twice in fact, would go again in a heartbeat - hope to.

well it may just be a non issue now.



Is it a full moon or something or are some of us on vj just cursed???


I just spoke to him after two days of nothing because of his dad and now he wants me to move there with my daughters. Says it so matter of factly too like "this is the way it will be.........you will move here with your daughters..."


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'll get right on that. Lemme call my ex and seal the deal eh?

Ugh. The tears just keep on a rollin'. Luckily I can eat now though. lol.

He is the only son and his sisters are 21 and 25 and it will bring "great shame" for him to come to the US and leave them. BUT...he CANNOT and WILL NOT leave me so "get that out of your head and do not think about this thing because it will all be ok"

Do they have magic lanterns there with Genies that I don't know about 'cause this ain't lookin 'so hot from my end.

Ok enough of that. I'm off to drown my sorrows in my leftover Carvel birthday cake from a week and a half ago.

Doodlebug - hope the cake cheers you up.

My fiancee has said stuff like this to me in the past, and I totally feel your pain. It was hard to deal with the guilt, but I knew deep down it was better for me, for us, and for our future family to live in the US. A lot of the VJers gave me the advice that MENA men tend to think a lot with their hearts - and especially in emotional situations don't always make the best decisions in terms of their future interests. There is also that "pride" factor that we all know and love.

Hopefully when you both are a bit calmer you can discuss what is the best solution for your relationship and both of your families

Awww bless him. He is going through a really tough time and he wants you next to him. He feels alone. Its that simple. When he gets his head back on straight he will realize that you are working together for a better future.

I can't tell you how many times my husband has told me to forget this visa and move there. Of course this always comes at emotional times, and once he has had time to think it through (after much dragging of feet by me) then he agrees to be more patient and at least wait to see if he is denied. I had to promise him that if he gets denied again I will move there I hope that doesn't happen, I have so much to lose here.

Oh yeah, back to topic. I shamelessly played games with him at the start of our relationship (yes JP, I was acting like a teenager...lol). By the time I went there I had no doubts in my mind about who he was and what I wanted. He turned out to be exactly the man I thought he was. Two years of marriage now and he is still my same little mischevious pain in the A$$.

doodlebug --- I hear ya hun. My husband is the youngest boy of 9 kids. 2 of his brothers are living out of Morocco, one here in the US and one in Italy. He was at home taking care of his mom and 6 sisters and the thought of him leaving made both him and his mom sick. She threw a fit (and I still don't think she really "likes" me) about him coming here because his brother who came didn't go back for 9 years (immigration stuff). I assured her this would not be the case. Our visa took 8 months to work out from start to finish and there were a lot of times I wanted to give up, as did he. But he really looked at it objectively. I have a son who is 2 1/2 and while Youssef is his father he is not his biological father. Taking my son out of the country was not a problem as I have full custody (his biological father has never seen him), however Youssef and I knew if we tried to move him there it might start a ruckus. We also both realized that we would want him and our subsequent children to attend private schools and knew that even though I have a BA, we could not make enough money there at the time to afford the lifestyle we wanted for us, support his family and our children. I could get a job making roughly $1000 a month however for him it would not be so easy. (We're thinking now that he speaks English quite fluently he will have much better prospects - but he wants to get some kind of degree). Anyway to make a long story short (sorta) - urge your habibi to think about the long run -- don't rule out the possibility of returning there to live. I've always told Youssef that I would rather be without him, than be here with him unhappy and sick all the time. It hurts me much more to see him that way then to be alone. Someone on VJ told me once "I realized that for the rest of our lives one of us is going to be homesick" and it's true. Your husband and you will be able to have a much better quality life here than you could imagine there - and once he has lived here, has good language skills, perhaps furthers his education and you can save money not only will he be able to help his family there but it makes the prospect of returning much more feesable.

I know you wrote about a PI -- I just want to suggest you do take your girls there to meet him. Not the first time certainly but I would really really highly suggest trying very hard to make it possible to return with them for an extended period of time (maybe in the summer). I know how hard custody arrangements are but I truly feel it was invaluable for us. Obviously I think you should go first, get your bearings and make arrangements and maybe when you go with them make it more of a vacation then "hey we're going to stay with your new dad" (i'm assuming they are older). For me, how Youssef was with Mikhail (my son) was of the utmost importance. I knew that if we didn't make it work there then there was no sense in going forward with the immigration stuff because once he got here it wouldn't work and my son always came first. When there is a computer between you it's easy to get along and work as a family unit but when you're all living together it's a whole other story as I'm sure you know. Allowing them to meet him and vice versa as well as you seeing how everyone gels is important (plus it's awesome proof at the interview!). Ok I'm done with the chat for now but that's just my thoughts.

I'm responding to this without reading the other responses, so if I duplicate I'm sorry. I understand his position culturally. However, he must understand your's as well. Your ex has a right to see his children too and he could make it difficult for you to take the children out of the country. Seems to be kind of a stalemate actually. Did you consider suggesting he come here with the possibility of bringing his sisters? I don't know the particulars of this or if this is something that's difficult to do. This is something we are discussing about Moh's youngest sister. We would like to bring her to join us after a few years if she is sure she wants to do it. I love her like my own daughter and their mother has passed and I think she is wanting that security again. We were very close. Well, I'm rambling. The other thing I want to say, if your man is like mine he has tangents. He can be very empassioned about something and a week later he has no problem seeing a new perspective. I'm sure right now he is feeling confused, anxious and overwhelmed with what the heck he's going to do. He's standing so firm because its probably the only security he can get for the time being. It sucks to lose a parent much less all that added responsibility. I guess what I'm getting at is this... take him with a grain of salt right now. Let things settle. Don't engage your own emotions too much if you can avoid it. It will help you get through it and see things more clearly. I think after some time has passed he'll be more receptive to looking at all possible options.

Hugs for your tears, although I'm sure they've long dried. I know its a scary feeling when they pull the 'tude but its going to settle down.

Thanks.

You know about a week after I took my shahada we both took Istikharah and gave it up to Allah. We were having problems similar to this and decided to give it a three day break. At the end of those three days we were both such a wreck and knew in our guts that this was true. I still feel this way and so does he. The thought of not being with him and instead being with someone else makes my stomach turn literally.

I won't be talking to him for another two or three days now because they have to vacate their father's place, since it was from the gov't to the father, and find a new place to live in a place called el Matarya, which is about 30 minutes from where they are. I don't know how the heck they're gonna move all of their stuff since no one has a car but I can't worry about everything or I'll be no good to anyone. They have 3rd cousins there so that will be good since now they have no mother and no father.

Ok.....I'm going to do what any self-respecting American girl does in these situations.


I'll check in here when I get back from the mall.

Thanks everyone!!!

One thing I know about Egyptians. They always manage. Always. (well it seems to be a human trait really) He will be ok. I know that probably doesn't give you much comfort. I tend to worry myself sick over things I can't do anything about. I think its the helpless feeling that really tears you up.

I once asked myself a question... and the reality of the answer made all decisions for me, asked or yet unasked. I was in a mood for cold cruel self-honesty.


I asked, "Can I be with another man and be just as content?"

That little wee voice replied sternly, "No. This is not about being with A Man."

I sat with that quietly and examined it for honesty. I'm foolish that way. Always second-guessing the little wee voice. There was absolutely no denying it. I know without doubt that should life ever lead me to a path empty of him, I will walk it alone because no one can fill his footsteps and I know I can lead my life just fine independently.

Don't misunderstand. This is no judgement call on you or your situation. Just me in my foolish way trying to "help".

It seems you've asked your wee little voice too. I hope you can find some peace today.

attagirl!!! shop it out!