I visited my fiancee in Russia last month and left her my laptop so we could email one another.. I also use it for my work, and when I was working from there, the interent was just terrible and slow, almost unusable. To try and speed things up, I setup one of my own web servers as as proxy, which cashes files so you dont have to download the same things over and over to speed the throughput.. Now I've been back for a while, I go to my webserver to clear out the cache to make room for some new websites, and there are dating sites cached there she has been going to

So I ask her about it, and she's like 'i dont mail to them, I just look'.. And I'm supposed to think WHAT? I mean, this looks like I'm off to a wonderful start here.... NOT.... Is this really what russian women think is acceptable??

I dont mean to sound rude. But you have to use your common sense. What would you do if you had an American fiance and she was doing that. I dont think it's normal for anyone. If someone is engaged to someone why would they need to "just look". Go with your gut. Good luck to you.

I don't think it's fair to ask whether "all" Russian women would think this is acceptable behavior. Most important is whether "you" think it is acceptable behavior.

You should have no problem communicating with your fiance, though, to find out what her true intentions were regarding her Internet viewing. Otherwise, she would probably not be your fiance, right?

A marriage relationship takes time. If you rush into it, there will be a lot of unanswered questions remaining even after your wedding.

It sounds to me like you are already passing judgment. However, I've never met a person who hasn't done something stupid before. And maybe it's just one of those things. If you love her, perhaps you should show her how to clear out the cache herself.

I hope you find out what you need to know. Best wishes.

The more I think about this it is a tough one. I asked my finace about this and she gave me two sides to it (thats why I love her). She gave me the worst. Maybe she doesn't like him (current fiance) or she is just very curious about other people and what they are about. Good luck...thats a tough situation but I would have to agree that you have to figure out whats right in your mind

Go to those web sites she has visited. Do a search for her. If she is posting new profiles and looking to meet other men, then you have your answer. Many sites have a time and date stamp when a profile was posted and When she last visited. Some sites even tell you how many people are interested in her. If she is just looking and not posting then she probably is just curious. Many of these women from Russia have posted on many different web sites when they started their search. Then when they have found their guy they just walk away from the web sites they posted on. Many of the web sites make it very difficult for the women to remove their profiles once listed. Many of these web site also use centralized databases and duplicate posts on many different sites. Also some sites retrieve and use the womens profiles without their permission.

If you think she may still be looking, then create a new identity buy her e-mail address from one site and start writing to her. See how she repsonds.

But remember, those things you do can come back to haunt you. On the other hand you also have a right to protect yourself. It is quite a wicked web we all weave.

Just my two cents

Im my opinion, she is still "shopping". Maybe innocent, probably not.

Good luck in getting at the truth, You really need to get the truth on this issue.

Don't get burned 2 years down the line, specifically, Green card time.

Purseude comes to mind. look up his sad story.

Good advice from Dallasguy7. It is a lot to go through to bring a SO here and I think
you have a 'right to be informed' of how she would respond to someone emailing her (you) under the circumstances you stated.
You will definitely get your answer.
It is not a Russian woman thing.......it happens everywhere in men and woman.
My friend told me today that she wanted to know how many dishonest men there are and
did a little test. She went to a site and browsed for 'married but looking' and 26,000 profiles showed
up including in her 100 mile radius and also with photos.........there is an epidemic out there
with the internet deceit.
Test the water before you jump in is my motto.
If she will be honest then trust her and jump in. If not run ............

to answer your thread title question: maybe you are.

you should really ask yourself: do i WANT to be an idiot?

Let me correct one thing. Although our divorce was final at the two year point, she had received her CONDITIONAL green card (AOS for Conditional LPR) after one year.

However, she was still a year away from PERMANENT LPR, lifting of conditions. She may not have understood the difference, but hey...

But, anyway, they can "technically" walk just about anytime after the CONDITIONAL AOS is approved and then see if they can get approved with a waiver (post-divorce). This may or may not fly with the USCIS, however.

And as sad as the story may seem, I'd rather find this out now, even after two years, than before she got pregnant and had a kid, as I'd be into her for a long long time for child support. Much less all the other issues that would have represented.

-- Dan






Have you considered saying to her "I found this by accident, but I am concerned. I felt hurt because I felt like this threatens our relationship." And see how she responds?

Additionally, Dallasguy had a good suggestion, check some of those websites and see if she's on there. Most websites don't let you respond to ads unless you are a member or at least have a registered profile.

Also, your cache should also likely reveal how often or how frequently these websites have been visited, or can you not access the history as well? And leaving her the laptop, well, she may not ever have had such a golden opportunity to just go "browsing" some of these sites before, you know internet cafes do cost money in Russia, so she had a computer and idle time to look around...

But also, once she's here with you, I assume she'll have access to your computer and maybe spare time on her hands, so there's the thought of what will she be doing then??

I don't think this is a what "russian women think is acceptable" issue, but it's obviously something that she felt was ok to do, and something that you think is NOT ok to do... and probably should lead to a whole discussion about "trust" vs. "cheating" and perhaps what both of you want and expect from the relationship...

Try to take the high road, even if you're a bit floored and astounded right now, as you seem to be by how you sound in your post... and use it as a reason to open the dialog between you about these issues.

-- Dan

This is an issue that you personally have to establish a clear limit on what is and what is not acceptable to you, and to her.

That said, it is very common for women on profiles to "shop around" too, and it's also possible that she was just looking to see if anyone was paying attention to her. (Women, believe it or not, LOVE attention!) Plus, she's got a little time to pass while waiting for you to get that paperwork in and the whole visa process, why not look around on the internet for a while?

And the last thing.... is it "guaranteed" that you're going to do the K-1, that it will get approved, that the two of you will survive as a couple that barely knows each other over the next 8 months to a year? The answer is NO, so maybe she's just keeping all her possibilities open. And if you wanna reply with "well, she shouldn't, we're here for true love and we're trying our best to make it work and spend our lives together, and ...." Take that over to the K-1 forum where the sunshine and puppy dogs are abundant. Here in the Russia forum, the soup is a lot thicker, and it takes a lot more stirring.

That said, it really could be the sunshine and puppy dogs (I really hope so, for you, and for me too.... I'm still going through this too, and all you can do is have faith that the sunshine and puppy dogs really are coming... someday when USCIS gets their $#!^ together) but in the mean time you just have to have faith that it's all going to work out just fine.

Last thing..... Long distance relationships are hard. You're living your life as individuals still, trying to be a couple. The most important thing I can say about making it last long term is to give her some space to do what she wants (and part of that is not questioning everything) and TAKE the space to do what you want. Once you're together it will be clear-cut what you can and can't do, but in the mean time, be yourselves, and don't worry so much about what she's doing. She "chose" you, and is coming here to marry you. That should be enough! KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE!!!

Slim, how do you make this connection? As far as I see it, he claims she is her fiancee. He picked her out and came to visit her. He has posted no timeline nor has stated he is doing the K1 paperwork. For all we know she has used him for a free good time in Russia and a free laptop.
Once again I applaud the Russian lady for taking advantage of the gullible American who has all the advantages to begin with. Now with a laptop in hand she can find the man that better satisfies her needs. I see this lady similar to Cam. If he can meet 3 ladies at once, then this lady can invite 3 men at once. All fair game when you are shopping.

Personally, I fail to see why anyone should be applauded for "taking advantage" of anyone else.

That just goes against my personal ethical and moral standards, so I find it hard to applaud such behavior, but that's just me...

Obviously your mileage can and will vary...

-- Dan

PurrSuede I think this is why the American male gets screwed is what Satellite is talking about. When you go with a woman from another country you shouldnt be so nieve to think that they are stupid and will do whatever you want. Remember they have brains and they are survivors unlike their counterparts here in the states. Russian women are very smart. No wonder Putin gives financial help to Russian women that will have kids. Because Russian women dont want to have kids knowing that their SO's wont give the support that they need for the child. Hence the American women will have 3 kids with 3 different fathers. Who's the smarter of the two. Next Russian woman you meet use your head thats on your shoulders not the one thats in your pants. Just my two cents. Dont take it the wrong way. Remember we've searched out the Russian women for her values but also for her strength and survivor skills the elude the American woman.

absolom,
I am one of those russian ladies that you guys are all shopping for. Haha I am just kidding. I have read your post about laptop and your girl going to dating sites... I have an advice to you. Don't worry about it. She will be going to those sites until you will get married. And.. maybe even after... My husband is going to these sites (VJ too), even if we happily married for 2 years. So my point is you can't check her true love to you until she gets a green card or citizenship. Going to the sites does not say anything. Good luck.

Relax. Many people are doing this. Just keep close eye on her.

Why not make your case (and make it with more strength) by not indicting every American woman with the broad stoke of your brush?
I'd say American women are survivors, just survivors of different circumstances than Russian.

Ok let me re-phrase as a continuation to my quote. "The American women that I have encountered are lazy, self absorbed drama queens that have no sense of family values. Now I dont mean all American women. I'm only commenting on the women that I've encountered. Mind you I dont live in a small city either. I'm in the heart of Chicago. Thats the reason I have found myself looking outside of my beloved country for a woman with values and survivor skills. A woman that can still appreciate a man that will open the door for her but yet can still fend for herself in tough times. Many of the American women that I've encountered find it offensive when a man opens the door for them. As if they can't open the door for themselves. Just wish the American women could try keeping the cheeseburger and fries out of her mouth so I dont have to hear about how big her ### is getting."


Is that better Meauxna ?


And one more thing. American women in my eyes are survivors of the choice "Should I get the Mercedes or the Toyota...I'll take the Mercedes because I'm a woman and I deserve it" May the good Lord be with them when they have to make such hard choices.

Damn, the Russian forum just keeps getting better and better AND I have no life

I can't believe that some say it is ok to go to dating sites and check out profiles when you
have a committed relationship, when you are engaged, even when married.
It is beyond me why someone is still interested in complete stranger's profiles when that time and energy
can be focused on other things to build a future as a couple.
One thing leads to another and profile browsing quickly can let to a harmless email and from there
to more.
I know because I divorced my ex for that reason, he had multiple "affairs" doing just that......browsing!
Don't be so gullible to excuse that behaviour, it is ridiculous to shop around in a relationship.
If one thinks he /she needs a backup plan or he/she may be missing out on a better partner then there is no way that person is ready for engagement or marriage and should stay single and shop until they drop!
I can't even imagine looking at other mens profiles , I love my fiance way too much to waste time
reading other mens likes and dislikes and look at pics.....who cares?

Ohhhhh believe me, I don't doubt that for a minute... I lived with one for two years, remember?

I can't say that if I had lived with her for two years in Russia I would be even half as capable she was in a language that was not her own, or figure out a plan to take off on her own after only two years..

So buh-LEEVE me, there's nothing in my personal experience that thinks "they are stupid and will do whatever you want."

In fact, just -suggesting- to her that such-and-such might be a better way to accomplish something was usually looked at as my "telling her what to do", which was another huge issue we had... basically it seems like I knew sh*t-from-shinola and all her RW friends and beauty-salon friends knew everything about everything, but that's another story for another day...

In fact I remember an arguement almost on the day she was moving out of my house where I just said simply "well hell, you've never listened to me since day 1, why on earth would I possibly even think for one lousy moment that you would even start now?"



Trust me, after the last experience, it certainly was NOT a "lower brain" experience...

But this time, I'm hoping to avoid the " heetri " characteristic and not go into the relationship totally blinded by " love " either...

-- Dan

"Shopping" while involved with someone, is relationship failure in the making. Only a fool would accept this as normal and appropriate.

No, it is certainly not acceptable behavior. I understand how you feel. Did she give more explanation why she did that?

Sometimes after long time of search people can hardly stop looking at such dating sites. Sometimes it means nothing. But... that is not really nice. If it would happen with me I would be truly upset.

I think dallasguy gave great advice - check if she made her new profile on any of those sites and if she did then write to her profile under another name and see what happens.

I am sorry you have to deal with this and it makes you nervous. I wish you good luck!

Oh yes, I can see why you've had trouble with American women!
Best luck!

Your one of those cheeseburger eating American women huh ?

Naw.. I'm driving the Benz, of course!

And I'm the small penis BMW M3 driving American. Good luck in your "i'm old and fat and I need a cheeseburger" car.




BTW Meauxna or whatever you are. Nice Timeline. Glad you can be so instrumental to VJ.

I'm meeting his fiance.

I came to that conclusion because he said "my fiancee." That to me means that they are engaged to be married, or at least after selecting which girl he liked best from the website, and her subsequent "I do" which is most likely a "I guess I'll go ahead and say yes in hopes that you really will get me a visa to the U.S." that they are both hoping to someday be "married."

Since they don't know each other well enough to have 100% trust and faith in the entire process, (there are no guarantees until visa is in hand... and even then there still must be more to the process) they (or just her in this case) continue to "shop around" on websites to see if maybe someone a little better (or faster, or more willing, or more anything....) can be contacted.




This is really starting to be a funny thread. After everyone giving Cam $#!^ for meeting more than one girl, he finally got to strike back, and perfectly timed at that. Bravo Cam. Bravo.


In all seriousness though, guys, if you're not giving your girl daily updates and sending her money all the time and making life just too good to be true, she's going to always have in the back of her mind that you may just be stringing her along and may take forever to get her over to you, and maybe, just maybe, she'd be better off going with another guy. So, she'll keep browsing.

And ladies, we're guys. So if we can find a version of you that's a little better looking, a little younger, and a little more willing to take care of us.... we're going to. We might not, cause after all this, we really do love you, but in the back of our minds, the grass is always greener.

This is just human nature. We can't help but think things like this.... at first. But then, our minds and hearts and emotions and everything else takes over and if we're lucky, we find the one that's just right for us. Or, we concede and decide "That's it. There's no way I'm going to trade up from this one. Better take this deal while it's still on the table."

And that's how I do it. I'm going to shoot this situation straight. If you want all that puppy dogs and sunshine "but we really love each other and knew from the start that we were meant to be together, and I would never ever think about someone else like that and....." go to the K-1 forum. Cause right here, (and on all those "shopping" sites) that's the way we all think. Most people do it subconsciously, and deny that they're thinking about stuff like that. Russians (especially the ladies) don't seem to have a problem putting it out there.... and we shouldn't either.

Keep it real, everyone!

?? this thread is unbelievable..."Keep an eye on her?" What is she? a pet??

And Meauxna is one of the post contributing and helpful people here...you must be new.

sorry slim ... that's not human nature, although it's nice to finally see a man confront, openly admit and share his massive feelings of insecurity.

Women just hate to hear the truth....

Leaving for Kazan tomorow morning, I will take a look at her laptop for her, maybe clean out her cache.

have a safe trip!!!

Yeah slim if you consider this human nature I guess I am not human. This philosophy is what I call the walmart mentality, get what you need at a reduced cost but plan on replacing it in a year or two. The few serious relationships I have ended because I didn't see the potential to last but if I start having problems with Anna (my fiance) I cannot see myself looking to trade her in. I have found someone I am deeply connected to not someone I am looking to replace and you wonder why there are scammers out there. They read ideas like this and decide to go into with the philosophy, hey I will stick it to him before he trades me in. My advice is stop looking over the fence and figure out how to make your own grass greener.

Course this is just my opinion.

Thanks

Hear, Hear Paul.. excellent post...

I have to say after several rather adverse relationships myself, I've had to ask myself was it really the potential of what could have been, or my own walmart mentality or theirs or what??

And then when I realized that the "trade-in" can certainly occur either way... and boy I got it stuck to me pretty good, although it sure could have been a lot worse. And she may have traded me in way too soon for her own good, if the USCIS has their way with her...

But I have to say, this time I'm feeling like I'm really forming a deep deep connection and honestly? I don't feel like either of the two RW's I was involved with prior to this were this deep a connection.

We will see what happens. I just want my own grass to stay nice and green for a long long time, and that's not with the aid of too much "fertilizer" either...

-- Dan

You know
I still look (at match etc) every month or so - just to see the losers are still there.
Maybe it is an ego thing (i don't know)
But if it is every day/week I would wonder about myself.
Couristy is human nature

Just my opinion - your mileage may vary

which losers in particular, John?

She loves me, she loves me not…?

I think jealousy will eventually get the best of some of the posters in this thread.

The boys and the girls - still on match after 3 years.
Sorry maybe the word I should have used is Persistent (unrelenting, constant, relentless, [professional]) ?

I was one.

I never did try those websites for dating (match,eharmony). The first one I tried was Elena's Models for my Galina (hope she doesn't sound like a commodity...because of course I dont mean it that way). I've heard mixed reviews about those sites. Never had a problem meeting women in social situations. It was just the quality always left something to be desired. I've said this in another post but the American man has truly spoiled the AW. There was an article in the USA Today about how 57% of women were happy with their current situation being single. They had no desires to be married. And 72% of men were interested in a long term relationship leading to marriage. Crazy huh. And AW say the men are afraid of committment.

How are those sites - matching Russian Women with American Men not considered marriage broker sites? Not trying to argue - honestly curious

here is a definition of a marriage broker:

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER
.
(A) IN GENERAL .The term international marriage broker means a corporation, partnership, business, individual, or other legal entity, whether or not organized under any law of the United States, that charges fees for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services, or social referrals between United States citizens or nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States as permanent residents and foreign national clients by providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating communication between individuals.
( EXCEPTIONS
.Such term does not include
(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the laws of the countries in which it operates, including the laws of the United States; or
(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its principal business is not to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United States residents and foreign nationals and it charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals it serves regardless of the individual's gender or country of citizenship.



If it's not solely concerned with facilitating marriages between Americans - on the one side - and foreign nationals on the other, and if it doesn't charge differently for its services (that is Americans pay higher subscriptions and the foreign nationals pay lower fees or even nothing), then it's not considered a marriage broker.


Many of these websites provide services to both sides of the fence at a comparable cost. Additionally many of them do NOT offer services exclusively to US citizens or residents, there are Brits, Aussies and European Nationalities who use them as well.

In other words, they are not focusing solely on providing to foreign nationals entry to the US of A by virtue of "brokering" (arranging) marriages to US citizens.

That is why they are not "marriage brokers".

-- Dan

thank you for the info

Sorry to hear about the loss of your Laptop

How can those sites be considered marriage brokers? Shouldn't match.com or eharmony be considered marriage brokers than. I just choose to look outside of my country for someone. The whole marriage brokers and mail order brides thing really gets me worked up. If I every called an AW a mail order bride she'd cut my nuts off.

Yeh
I got me worked up too. I think it is BS.
I was ready to tell my SO to fly to mexico and walk across.

I tell you what John. If my SO hadn't a child I was definitely thinking about it. It's estimated that 7500 people come across the border everyday. And that's only an estimation. They truly have no concrete evidence beyond that. It's a sad thing. And Mexico wants to have talks with us about how we should ease our borders so more Mexicans can enter. It's crazy. I'm not against Mexicans but it's just crazy that we allow this and here we are trying to do things the right way and I feel penalized for doing it legal.

As someone who wrote to many hundreds of women.. I can tell you that the term Mail Order Bride is vastly wrong... except for a few who was trying to scam.. the women were trying to find a spouse.. many that I wrote would prefer to stay where they are.. they have a friend who they know who met someone overseas and is very happy... so they are looking for that happiness...

And almost all were smart and had a mind on thier shoulders and knew what they were looking for.. and many decided that I did not have what they wanted.. and many did not have what I wanted... there was NO 'order' you lady and she comes over..

Now, most of these ladies have a different version of what makes them happy... and it is more in line with what makes me happy... a good family experience.... I do not want or need a fancy big house.. I do not need an expensive car.. I do not need to try and show people that I make more than them or am better than them etc... and most of the women I dated here think these are important...

I get kidded at work for not having cable TV, high speed internet, a new cell phone (and only got it for emergencies)... all these just don't make sense to me... I enjoy a simple life..