As an outsider I can completely understand from where you're coming. Even though I doubt it applies to outsiders such as myself.

I hope you all can get your forum back to where you need it to be supportive to one another.




I think you did a great job with starting this thread as well as the bolded statements above. It's not so much different from real life; you can't change everyone else, just yourself.

Again, good luck fixing what's broken.

[quote name='type2negative' date='Sep 9 2006, 01:50 PM' post='435459']
[ Are you proud of this??? [/quote]


A little bit.
[/quote]

no I dont think anyone is proud.
there was a time when this thread was good. people did not argues like this.
there were stong friendships that have been formed and some of those friendships
are broken. trusts have been violated - in alot of cases accidently. moving forward.
we all agree that is bad things have to change pretty quick and for the better.
I am in favor of begging Ewok to remove alot of the threads < poo poo slinging ones >
we all said what we feel. kicked poo every direction. make peace and move on to better things.

As for the flame throwers and particularly the pot stirrers, they will just follow you around to even more threads.Yup its never too late to resolve things.
I resolve not to trick anyone into believing I'am smarter than I really am, and I resolve to keep blaming USCIS for all my personal problems.
Save the comebacks, kids. I'm out. I feel the urgent need to find some sturdy oak and perhaps some galvinized nails. God Bless.

Perhaps remove the united part?

And stop trying to cause trouble
[/quote]



That gets my vote.

As we can see, there will always be those who want to see discord here. Once again I say...IGNORE THEM. They love the attention. Can't we all see that?? Don't let them under your skin people and they will go away. Even if someone irks you...forget it, is your health worth their glee?? I hope not.

This forum is what we make it. If trouble makers come in, they will leave fast enough when they see we will not respond to their crap.

Best wishes to all!!!

Hugs

chi







I am all for it!!!!!!!

chi

*follows jabree quietly with a pair of pliers*




Now if only we could drag this lovely sensibility into the other thread which is currently a trainwreck of flaming and taking things to a personal level where people are gleefully tearing yet another member to shreds...

Great!!! This is what we all need to do!!

chi

Whatcha gonna do with the pliers sis????

We are on our way to this right now!!

Way to cool!

chi

We need a new leader here.


A Man........


A Prince.....



So I better start saving all ths stuff on my computer. For Posterity.

I agree totally with you. Everyond should be welcome. But when someone comes in and starts trouble, as they say>>>nip it in the bud.

Don't respond at all. Continue on as if they never posted. If you treat them as invisable they will not get what they want...ie your ire and move on. So many times we say>>>

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

Yet we do feed them. Let them get their food somewhere else. Don't let them take "yours" so to speak.

Hugs to all

chi

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VP.... ssshhh... let it go. You're still feeding.

Am I the only one not allowed to comment?

Things are spinning out of control. it takes alot to appolize sometimes. but, I am trying my best
to do that. even if it means nothing right now to those I have treaded on and hurt. I am moving forward.
if somthing happend to me. I really dont want a reputation of something I am not. tears flow
when I type this this is all crap i wish it could stop we all could be friends of not then at least be civil.
I weep because, I know full well this is not how you ladies are. you all enjoy nice things and have
loving hearts -please please let it shine...
[/quote]

Shon you are quite a woman!!!!

You have started a process that I hope leads to a better forum here.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Many huggies}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to you my dear!!!

It can take time to heal, so we will give the time.

As it has been said time and time again, this immigration process is not easy on anyone going through it. I know the nightmare first hand. This is what bonds us together here. We all know how others may judge us. This is even more reason to stick together and not let outsiders destroy what was was here. Who knows the battle we go through but us? Who understands the dicrimination better than ourselves? We are our own worst enimies if we left others destroy what friendships and bonds that were made here.

If everyone wants that back, forgiveness must start here so healing can take place. Blame must go. Start afresh.

I so appreciate you Shon for the bold step you took today...bravo and much applause to you for your humbleness and humility this day.

chi

Shukran for starting this thread...these are the very reasons I do not come here very often anymore. I so do not want to be a part of something so negative...this process is negative enough without coming here to experience it.

I have been a member here for well over a year since we started our own visa process and we have lost so many great members not only of VJ, but this very forum because of this issue, and it is sad. I have seen many come and go...afraid to post for fear of being lashed at or someone just being plain mean to them. Some people did not get the information they needed because they could not bring themselves to post or even read anymore. Now that to me truly is the saddest part of this.

These are great people who have great experiences and information to share with others going through this process...the whole reason we are here to begin with.

I really do wish everyone could get along...if there is something nasty going on, take it offline and out of this forum where it does not belong. There have been a couple of issues I myself have taken offline and rightly so. I refuse to air it for the entire world to read, it's just not right.

Ignoring has worked for me in the past, but it really is sometimes hard to see what is going on and not respond to it...especially when you see it happening to someone you know and hold dear to your heart. I have bitten my own tongue many times, it has really tested my will to keep my own mouth shut on many occasions.

Shon, you really are a wonderful woman, I happen to know you truly are a sister...that to me is worth more than words. Stay true sister.

Thank you again for starting this thread, hopefully the wave will continue to grow and this forum can finally be reclaimed for it's intended purpose...helping those of us immigrating our loved ones from North Africa and the Middle East.


~Kiyah~

some of you can blame me for the dissent here within mena, that's all fine and wonderful. however, i'm not the one telling secrets between mena members am i? IMO trying to blame any problems on "outsiders" is just shifting the blame and removes the requirement of each member from owning up to their share of the blame pie. i don't cause shannon to bicker with icey. type2 does not cause icey to bicker with shannon, and so on and so forth. got the picture yet? so you can either continue to blame the "outsiders" or you can take a long hard look at your own interactions with other mena members, which IMO is the root cause of this latest round of drama.

i come to mena not just for the drama, unlike some other vj members. i've got quite a bit of respect for a few of it's members, primarily szsz and jmagayreh, and i've learned a few things about islam along the way. as for why mena is so interesting to "outsiders" perhaps the drama within its members causes that. no one can wreck mena but yourselves.........think about that.

i'm sure a few of you will barf that i've mentioned szsz as being worthy of respect. and you'll continue to blame me and other "outsiders" for the problems within mena. so be it. my advice: before you go off on a rampage at another mena member about some slight, real or imagined, consider how it looks to someone who is not muslim - it certainly does not reflect positively on the image of islam.

i think all of vj needs a make over...not just the mena one. there are alot of crappy things going on. sure has changed since ive become a member.

I dont know what an " outsider " is. maybe its me. my husband is not from the middle east. but, we are muslim family that is one reason why I came to this thread. I thought at somepoint to learn things from the ladies here. I have learned somethings. Rhama at one point was posting helpful links. pictures, DVD, fashion links, etc.... I hope she keep posting things like this for us all to share. .btw, I have ordered a few things such as the DVDs....

Charles, I hope you didn't take what I said as anything personal. It wasn't my intention at all. As I said, many from here have messaged me today expressing their wishes for things to heal and to be okay again and I was trying, maybe wrongly, to just let the dust settle for them.

I will continue to refrain from naming names, but YES there are indeed some individuals from this forum that just simply do not "get it". You certainly aren't one of them. There are others, as you yourself mentioned, that are deserving of respect.

You didn't cause any of the problems here and I think anyone who would even being to imply such a thing has just plain been asleep at the wheel. Really, we all caused the problems. We just want to fix them.

The only thing I can offer that is sometimes when some people are obviously angry and in pain, it just adds fuel to the fire to ridiculed and mocked from the sidelines.

I rarely went outside of this forum because of the kindredship here. I hope we can get it back. Would be cool to include you too. Who knows, might add some needed balance.

To me an outsider is someone who is here to cause trouble...ie the TROLLS. Otherwise no one else is an outsider. I mean who would want to come here and cause problems other than "outsiders" ie... TROLLS?


chi

What ever happened to the idea of living by the golden rule?

Saddened and perplexed by the lack of maturity of some,

Twila

If I have a simple, non religious mantra that I try to live by, it's this - if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. There are plenty of religious sentiments that say the same thing, but that's the non-denom version.

I cringe from conflict, run away and hide under the bed covers. Ask my husband, he'll tell you how hard I avoid getting into even political debates anymore. It's a scary world out there, and we all need some calm.

That's my contribution to the thread. *waves*

I wish you all the luck in the world....people can disagree and say as much without being downright spiteful or betraying each other.



Tensions run high cos we're all without our partners, and sometimes we all need a step back and a deep breath!

not posting it twice

The moving finger writes and having writ, moves on. Not all your piety nor wit can call it back to cancel half a line, nor all your tears wipe out one word of it. From The Rubiyat of Omar Khayaam

i'm sure a few of you will barf that i've mentioned szsz as being worthy of respect.

I'm sure there will be too, but I've been spat on, shot at, jailed, and worse, so a little lip from someone on the net doesn't faze me at all. Personally, other than outsiders coming here to start trouble, I think that what adds to the tensions is how some folks like to dish it out, but don't like to take it. I can take it, I don't run from conflict, so I make no apologies for defending Islam or my own character when need be. I have no doubt that there are some who dislike me for that, but that's their problem, not mine.

As for the subject of trying to get everyone to be nice, forget it. There are cheering sections, and I have noticed that no matter how assinine a comment someone may make, there seems to always be someone who seconds it coz it's their buddy who says it. Frankly, I've lived long enough to know that one person's "not nice" is another's "simple, inpersonal statement of fact", and no more.

It's amazing how quickly some take personal offense to just about anything and expect you to acquiese to their unreasonable demands to stop the discussion because it bothers them rather than walking away if they dont want to participate. I even started a thread about that. There is a limit to taking responsibility for how another person interprets your statement or how easily their feelings are hurt. At some point, the responsibility is theirs for how they CHOOSE to react.

Not all of us post the same way or for the same reasons. Some of us like substance and others prefer niceities. And, yes, there is a lack of debating skills that those of us who like substance cannot be responsible for when a participant is lacking them. There is an old adage in law that when the facts are against you, argue the law; when the law's against you, argue the facts; when there both against you, just yell like hell! There's a lot of yelling like hell in the debates because some of us run out of substance but are loathe to let go.

Each of us indeed must take responsibility for what we post, but we also need to take responsibility for what we read.

"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what we are told. Religious dogma is doing what we are told, no matter what is right."

I agree with you SZSZ. Just forget trying to make it so that no one is hurt. Things are taken wayyy too persoanlly here we can't please everyone.

Not everyone posts attacks or offensive things but if it happens, then don't take part which most of you are capable of doing. So then just ignore it! If it's too much for you just don't look, don't respond. I don't think we need a thread to remind us how silly some people have been recently. What purpose does that serve? It's not going to stop and I am pretty sure that this thread is not going to change anything in the long run. I have been personally insulted a couple of times, and yes I have responded because I have the right to stand up for myself. One person might see it and ignore it, and that's fine, but that's not how I respond to things like that. We are all different and we are not always going to agree.

That's it!

Sarah

Ameen! Not everyone is going to like you or everything you say. Hasn't happened yet, not to Abraham, Jesus or Muhammad, and not to any of us, and never will. That's life, grow up, get over it.

Yep!

It kills me to see people taking things so personally sometimes when really they have no idea if something was aimed at them. If you can't handle it then don't read it, don't respond, and forget about it.

It is always so amazing to me the types and levels of interaction that I observe when I come here. I have been in Morocco almost a month now, and though I do not get to read daily, it's almost like a telenovela. I may miss a few days, and the characters may change (or not) but I can always bet on the plot to be pretty near the same and I can pick up. But the sad part is, though so much of my life is diferent now (ie. my day to day activities, standard of living, etc) this forum is my only mainstay.

I must say that I am more happy now that I made the choice to join my husband here, for my life is SO much simpler and more peaceful. My family can't just pop by whenever they choose, I'm debt-free and yet want for nothing, so much of the stresses of my previous life in the US seem only a memory and I like it that way. But more than anything, I want (really need) the support and camaraderie that I once had here. I'm not sure if I ever pushed anyone's buttons here, I sincerely hope not. Like shon, just_waiting and others I really want the sharing, encouragement and "girl time" back.

I don't speak for Jean but I don't think she expects everyone to play nice. I think what has become particularly distasteful about this forum is the personal attacks, revealing of personal information, the name calling, and childish bickering rather than debate.

I don't speak for Jean but I don't think she expects everyone to play nice. I think what has become particularly distasteful about this forum is the personal attacks, revealing of personal information, the name calling, and childish bickering rather than debate.

99% of the time, I have no idea what anyone is talking about when the subject is who did what to whom. I don't seem to be able to escape the conflict between Shannon and Icey, as it is popping up all over, but what happened to Jean, I totally missed.

I simply stated people are fed up with the personal attacks. Heated debate is enjoyable. Insulting someone on a personal level in a public forum and dragging each other's dirty laundry around is not. Many on this forum have written to me in the last few weeks and the united complaint is exactly that. It's undermining the purpose of this website, against the TOS, and really gums the search engine with useless information.

Not to mention the credibility of VJ.
Jean, where are those pliers? I think i can see my house from up here.......

I have not really posted in this forum since I joined VJ for all of the very reasons that have been stated in this thread.

I know one thing for sure and it is the main thing that first attracted me to Sam ( we both had this posted in the personal info on Yahoo), if you live your life by this statement-that no matter what cultural, religous or any other background you come from you will not do harm to others. "Treat everyone that comes into your life as you want to be treated."

I think it is wonderful that you started this thread. I have doubts it might help but what can it hurt. I am one of those that have been around for a long time. I received such wonderful advice when I found VJ. I have stuck around hoping that maybe I could help when needed. I come away most times very disappointed in what has happened here. I know things change but it doesn't have to be for the worse. There are so many people that still need help and support. If you want drama and thrive on such a thing, can't it be taken elsewhere. Many people will never learn to ignore things they just have to keep feeding it. Ok, I'll stop. I just had to respond to something that is positive. Nice, very nice!!! If such a thing could continue, imagine how many new people (and older members too) would be inspired and helped not discouraged and made afraid to ask for assistance.

Doreen

Page 6 and no flame war

The betting is officially closed. All monies will be refunded.

Maybe next time

For Gupt...

Well Jean, either way it seems like you're feeling better so yay for that!

You mean like pointing out how obvious someone's statement was when no names were mentioned?

Far more important, I think we are all feeling better. It wasn't about me. It's about this remarkable group of women. I mean seriously, what a group of special people.

Life is really about about walking the talk. We post about beliefs endlessly here it seems... whether its religious or not... but really words are like smoke when it comes to life. But deeds, the vehicle of those words and actions, are the true testament of our beliefs and who we are.

I've seen some beautiful deeds in the last few days, both on this forum and privately that just take my breath away. Again I have to say, what an incredible group of women you really are. This visa process causes huges tides of emotions, anxieties and frustrations to move through each of us. None of us are exempt for that. It causes us to do and say things we may never do otherwise. I think each of us intrinsically knows this. The real test of character comes in how you handle the situation or its aftermath.

I want to say, and I hope I'm not overstepping myself, that jordanianprincess has displayed privately a tremendous amount of grace and character and to her I'm grateful and I'm hopeful to see her post here.

Face it, this may be our proving grounds. We are taking men from the ME/NA as our life partners to live in a country where they are not well accepted by some in our society at this time in our history. Some already have them here, some are waiting. But you know there are going to be times of pain and confrontation because of this. If we learn how to handle ourselves here with character and dignity, we will be better equipped to deal with what we face in the future.

for each of you.

I never felt bad. All I can say is if this place and the visa process is all it takes to set some of you off, then you must have a truly comfortable, serene life otherwise. I think for a lot of you, youth and inexperience is your main problem. This place, the visa process, is NOTHING in the scheme of things. Life is not on the internet, but a lot of drama is created here.

It's great to see you post again Doreen. I've missed you!!
I really hope that this kindness moves thru the other threads in this forum and is not a dead end here.

If kindness is going to spread, someone needs to spread it. The most popular thread right now is the train wreak "Henia, how's Algeria?" TIme to take the act on the road if something is supposed to change!

VJ Peace Keepers to the rescue

LOL! That's funny, Angel! Charlie's Angels.

I was thinking along those lines tho. Those who are of like mind need to form a peacekeeping squad that moves inmass into a thread that needs more sweetness and light and posts peaceful platitudes intended to change the karma of the members there.

They will need a seal! Any ideas?

I TOTALLY agree with you. I wanted to post this a long time ago. I really feel it is a lack of maturity by some of the youngest members here that has really kept a LOT of this going.

hahah yeah we need a Arabic Sweets Squad to come in wipe out the bad taste.

how's this?

Peacepipes ,sweat lodges, and good old smudging. If that don't suit ya, call in the cavalry?

Jabree, are you Iroquois?