Hi all... let me introduce myslef a bit...

I have been on the Russianmeetingplace board for over a year now.. I have travled twice to meet with a lady.. this last time seems to be a winner... we have corresponded for about a year before I went to visit... now I would like for her to come visit me... so here is my first question.. and I do not see a spot for it.. so let me know the best place to put it..

I convinced her that she could get a tourist visa to come visit, to see how Texas is, to meet the family etc... if thing worked out we would then start the fiance visa.. Well, she was refused the tourist visa... I do not know why as it just happened today.. I will get more info when she cools off..

But, she has two children, owns her own flat and has a job.. not a great job, but a job.. there is nothing to indicate she would stay her past the two weeks we wanted her to come... I had sent a letter inviting her and also sent a letter stating that I would be responsible for all costs and would make sure she returned.. (thanks, I got those from here!!!)..

What went wrong??? What can I do about it??

If we went the fiance visa to visit and then decided to get married... how easy is it to get ANOTHER fiance visa??

As I said, I would love to put these questions in the correct forum for others to see...

PS... I have been a lurker here, but not as much as I was not yet to this need...

A single American man inviting a single Russian woman on a tourist visa is probably the biggest red flag at the embassy and rarely (if ever) approved. The potential for abuse and failure to return is, in the minds of the CO's, very high. Children, money, and property have nothing to do with it. Unfortunately she will NOT have another chance at a tourist visa now.

You will still be able to do the K-1. It does take much longer than the tourist visa.

Thanks for the info..

It does seem strange to me... they say if you have the ties like she has you can get a visa (on THEIR website)... and to go through a K-1 process just to find out you might not be compatible seems like a waste of time for both us and the Embassy...

Well, I guess the K-1 is the next step...

I have heard it is impossible for a single Russian woman to get a tourist visa.

First off, welcome to the board Texas Proud.

Is it true what they say? If you were about to respond with the "Yep, everything is bigger in..." I'll cut you off and let you know that I was going with the "Only steers and...." Anyway, just kidding. (I've got a few buddies from Texas, so I've heard all that stuff before... as I'm sure you have too!)

Every since American men discovered that gorgeous women from Russia would like to talk to them, there's been the question, "Can she get a tourist visa? (So we don't HAVE to get married?)"

The tourist visa for a single Russian woman is like an urban legend. Folks have heard of it, but have never really seen one. Or, they knew a guy who knew this girl who had a friend that got one a long time ago. Something like that.

The only actual evidence that they exist is the fact that there are lots of denials out there, and if there are denials, surely there have to be some approvals somewhere too, right? You would think that, but once again, no one has actually seen one.

However, they do exist, and the only real proof that we have is that once upon a time, there was a VJer who met his fiancee while she was here on a TOURIST visa. Now, here come the strings attached.... she was here to visit her sister that was already married to an American guy.

So, if your perspective girl has a married sister (and I'm assuming not because she got denied already) then you're good to go. If not, a K-1 is the only option. If you head over to the K-1 board and start asking questions like "Do we really have to get married if she comes here on a K-1?" Or others like "Can we get a K-1, then she go home to finish work, school, dinner, whatever and then come back later?" You're going to get bombarded with nasty "THAT'S VISA FRAUD!!!! IT'S PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT MAKE THIS PROCESS HARD FOR EVERYONE!!! IF YOU REALLY LOVE EACH OTHER YOU'LL JUST GET MARRIED!!!!" Etc., etc., etc., from all of those people going through the long, tedious, visa process of getting their loved ones here from Canada. I know, I know, it's tuff, and it really sucks only being seperated by one border guard and 450 miles of open highway.... but you'll perservere! Stay strong!

OK, enough of that. Stick with us here on the Russia forum becuase plain and simple, Russia is different. The K-1 thread is actually VERY helpful when it comes to helping with papers, where to file, etc., but knows nothing at all about "special circumstances" when dealing with Russians, and for that, you'll need to get with the guys (and gals) on here.

To be 100% real, your only option if you want her to "visit" is to have her "visit" you for 3 months on the K-1, then if things don't look like they're going to work out, send her home, click on the next profile, then invite that one over for a 3 month "visit" too. However, you're going to have about 9 months to a year between "visitors" and that gets old.

My advice, take a little time, maybe even go "visit" her another time or two, then decide if you both want to get married. If so, go for the K-1, if not, click on the next profile.

(I'm going to get slaughtered for this post, but sorry everyone, that's how things work when dealing with Russian girls and Tourist/K-1 visas. THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS!)

You did good Slim!

bruc

Keep in mind that now, thanks to something called IMBRA, there's a limitation on the number of K-1's you can file in a lifetime, and that limit is TWO or one within TWO years without a waiver of these requirements.

So if you K-1 with this woman, and it doesn't work out, you will either need to wait two years to try another K-1 (if you are using the K-1 as a "trial") or apply for a waiver.

The IMBRA waiver is a very new thing, so no one knows how many of these can be or will be granted. If you apply for the waiver on the basis of "my K-1 was a trial marriage, but we didn't work out so I sent her back home to Russia", I'd bet your waiver would be declined.

Think LONG and HARD before you K-1 someone just on the basis of a "trial before marriage". Another possibility if you don't want to go to Russia, is to meet her in a 3rd country that she can travel to on her Russian passport.

Just an idea you might want to look into. But the K-1 is really not a "try before you buy" kind of Visa, so keep that in mind as well.

-- Dan




And just a thought, if you've been on a "russianmeetingplace" board for a YEAR, and they didn't tell you that a Tourist Visa to enter America is next to impossible to get for a single woman that doesn't have relatives who are already HERE in America?? That's a board I'm staying WAY away from, in that case...

I don't blame the woman for being angry with you. Just about any of the available forums where you could have looked into this would have told you that a tourist visa is out of the question. And you said you convinced her she could get one. Well she might have even made a long trip to Moscow, on your say-so, only to be rejected... though I understand this isn't always necessary any more...

As an example, if you had to go all the way from Texas to Washington DC, say, to try and get a Russian Visa to go meet a Russian woman who had convinced you this was the right thing to do, and you got rejected, wouldn't YOU be a bit upset with her as well??

What you can do is APOLOGIZE to her, offer to reimburse her for her wasted administrative or travel expenses if any on your behalf (she thought she could come to see you...) and frankly you have a HELL of a lot of trust to gain back in her eyes, because basically you convinced her the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were all real, only to have the US Embassy slam the door in her face. She believed in you and you let her down... Think about it. If I were you, I'd convince her you were totally mistaken and just wanted to see her so much, and I would get my butt over ~there~ and MEET HER instead, and show her that you are for real and not just blowing smoke up her a....

-- Dan

Thanks guys.... but let me give some info since I am getting beat up a bit...

Yes, the forum said it was difficult, but not impossible... there are at least two on the board that had their GF come over on tourist visa.. most that had not were in the 'single' with no kids, no property etc.. I had read the US visa site and they said this would be taken into consideration.. ie, ties to have them go back to Russia..

She did not have to travel.. She lives in St. Petersburg and there is an office there... also, when I visited, I left money for her to do all the stuff, so no money out of her pocket.. only time..

I did not convince her that she WOULD get a visa.. I just said that she should try and lets see what happens... I am not trying to get her over here so we do not have to marry... I want her to see how different Texas is to her city (read HOT)..

I will read the board... but let me ask another question.. what about extensions on the K-1??? Can she come over by herself, then we decide to get married, extend the K-1, she goes back and get the kids and then all come, get married. etc....

I am VERY surprised... today 14 pages of NEW POSTS... how does someone keep up???

Hi and welcome to VJ!

Hope your journey is smooth sailing!

Ok, first things first, I think you've explained yourself better in this posting.

Yes it is EXCEEDINGLY difficult but not totally impossible to get a tourist visa. It's not totally impossible to win the lottery, but it is exceedingly difficult. You get the idea.

That's good that you left money for her to do this. It does take time and money to do this. And I'm sure you know that RW's incomes are stretched as it is, especially if she has kids, as you mentioned.

I'm in Albuquerque, in the southwest. Although I'm divorced, I can tell you my RW had no trouble adapting to the climate. If they can survive winters of -40 below, they can survive summers of 95+. And EVERYTHING will be different, not just the weather/temperature.

I do not believe there is any kind of extension to the K-1. You either get married within 90 days or she goes back. And then you'd have to file again, and since this is a 2nd K-1 within two years, you would need an IMBRA Waiver approved. Her Kids would be as a K-2. You can always marry her outside the USA and then bring her and her family over here (K-3/K-4), but this is a different process. There are other areas on VJ that have info on how to do a K-1/K-2 vs a K-3/K-4

The problem, you see, is that there ARE guys who've continually abused the K-1 as a "trial" to bring them over, mess around for 90 days, then send them back, then go fishing for another one. This is one of the reasons the new IMBRA laws were passed. The reason there's limitations on the number of K-1's without a waiver from the USCIS.

The thing is, she looks to you for advice and guidance, and probably felt like, well he said we could get this, and we couldn't. And she had probably heard from many others that a tourist visa is "nearly impossible" to get, but went ahead and did it anyway, on your advice. So understand WHY she is a bit po'd, I hope...

Excuse me if I came off a bit rough around the edges on you, there are issues with the guys who looked at the K-1 as a "try before you buy" and because of this the IMBRA laws were tacked onto the process.

I had one K-1 where we ended the relationship ~before~ she could get a visa, and another K-1 where we got married, but were recently divorced. But that still counts as two strikes, even though only one Visa was ever issued.

Because of IMBRA (and the actions of others who abused the K-1 as some sort of trial-marriage playground) I'm now at the mercy of getting a USCIS waiver should I want to do a 3rd K-1, as well as being subject to being listed in a database and "tracked" as a "serial K'1-er".

So even if my actions were completely innocent, I'm now at the mercy of the USCIS and required to get a waiver should I want to try to K-1 again... which I do...

So please, don't look at the K-1 as let's get her over here and see what she thinks.

And frankly, that "well let's see how she likes it and then we can decide if we'll get married or not" is more reflective of a Western attitude toward marriage, and it might come off to some RW as "you are not sure that you want to marry me???". Just a thought you might consider.

They are hopefully marrying the PERSON (you) and not the Texas weather, the house, or anything else that you would like them to "see" before they make their decision about marriage.

-- Dan

I once had a Russian girl tell me that when "Russian woman love man, she love all about man. Not him looks, not him money, not him house or car, not him city, not big or small, not old or young, not any one thing about man. Love only all man, and everythink about this man. Doesn't matter everythink else.... if she love only him."

(That was about six years ago, and recently, I had to fill out a K-1 for her!)

Hey guys....

Don't worry about being short and to the point... I do that myslef and get in trouble...

I am not, or should I say was not, trying to 'try it for a spin'... we have met only once.. we both have a lot of feelings for each other, but I think (and I will ask...) we both need a few more meetings to decide... I was hoping one of those was her to come here...

Yes, she told me over and over that she could not get a visa... but I read the US site saying the things that you 'needed' to show you would return home and she had them... so I guess the site is not telling the truth.. lesson learned..

And you are right... I do not want to do a K1 for a visit.. so we need to discuss our next move.. she is in the country now, so I can not talk to her...

Now.. more reading!!!

Again... thanks...

The site is telling the truth. Like you said you need to prove there is something to return to.
Returning to a $200 a month salary/job?
Returning to a small one bedroom flat?
Return to an old Russian Car?
In the eyes of the American consulate those are not the things a single young woman would want to return to.
However, if she presented documents stating:
She had a 5 bedroom cottage.
Husband and two young kids.
She is an executive of a Russian oil company making $5000+ a month.
Now those are things a US consular officer would consider having strong ties to which you certainly would want to return to.
Invitation from a boyfriend in America...and she has to prove she is not a potential immigrant just doesn't go together.

Those are things that I'd like to return to! (Minus the husband part, of course...)


The only real advice that I can offer here is this: Take a little more time and decide if you really do want to marry this girl. Maybe keep in touch for a while, go visit her for a while, etc. Then, after a few months (or years) really decide that she's the one for you.... or not. If so, K-1. If not, click on the next one.

She had a nice job... not great paying job, but a teacher at an art university..

She has a two room flat in the middle of St. Pete.. shows ownership..

No car.. bad there..

TWO children.. that were not coming on the visa...

But, unless I can appeal... it is water under the bridge...

Yes, we need to visit a few more times to get to know each other better.. I will see about getting another visa to visit her.. or see if she wants to meet at a neutral site.. but I would like it to be with her children... I want to get to know them also..

Oh well, Memorial weekend!! Things will wait until next week..

Texas Proud, you just don't get it? It isn't about having a car, kids, husband, and flat. It's about having the things that you will want to return to in the eyes of the US consulate. To them her low paying job as an art teacher is something worth abandoning for any higher paying blue collar US job. The point is that, the things she has are all not worth keeping in the eyes of the US consulate and thus they issue a routine denial.

Welcome to VJ, and good luck on your journey

How about.....Labor Day weekend??

[quote name='Neonred' date='Sep 2 2006, 07:10 AM' post='418227']

[/quote]

How about.....Labor Day weekend??
[/quote]


Hmmm... well, I guess.. if you MUST... I did not even know it was a holiday until Wednesday of last week...

CALENDAR!!!!!

My calendar would not show Labor Day on it...then again my calendar says it is cентябрь. =P

A calendar is like instructions... not to be read at any time by a man!!!

Agreed.

But, you'll see that pretty soon, that calendar becomes really important on VJ. You may even start counting days!!!

(By the way, I don't ask for directions either. God invented GPS for a reason, and that reason was so men would never have to ask for directions again!)

They talk about big things in Texas - but the fact is, Texas is so small that even if you cut Alaska in half, Texas would be only the third largest state. (;

Cheers!
AKDiver

Heard it all before... but we do not count ICE as land down here

Now, the trivia that some get.. but most miss... What are the states that are the farthest North, fartherst South, farthest West and finally, farthest East???

Only because you don't have any.
Well, Alaska is the furthest north, east, and west. Hawaii is the obvious choice for furthest south.

Cheers!
AKDiver

Humm... good trivia question, but I don't quite understand how Alaska is farthest east, how is that determined? The international date line?

It is exceedingly difficult if she does not have fairly substantial financial resources in Russia.

Meeting in a third country is a far more convenient option. We met in Paris.

I met my wife in the US, so seeing the states wasn't an issue in our case.

I would say that by far, the best all-around option (except for the expense) is an F-1/J-1 visa. Your fiance gets to study in the US, can see you as much as they like, and spend time getting acclimated here. The cost is tuition, payed in advance by you. I would guess at least $10,000-20,000/yr. They may be suspicious why you are paying for it, though.

If you do not intend to marry yet (sounds like this is true), you are not breaking any rules.

Getting married while holding such a visa is frowned upon, but possible. (K-1 would be the favored way)

All this being said, the most practical thing to do is get a K-1 visa when you are both ready.

Basic geography man. The Prime Meridian running through England splits east and west (equator splits north and south). Everything east of the Prime meridian is east, and everything west of it is west. The International date line doesn't split east and west per se, but it is 180 degrees from the Prime Meridian, and is the furthest you can go in either direction. If you cross it, then you're actually pretty far east/west, coming from the other way.

Semisopochnoi Island is part of the Rat Islands group in the western Aleutian Islands. At 179°46'E, it is the easternmost location in the United States and North America, as it sits only 14 minutes west of 180°, and therefore in the Eastern Hemisphere. NOTE THE "E" after the longitude. That means EAST. The western most point is Amatignak Island, 179'10'W. Note the "W" after the longitude. That means WEST.

So, Alaska is far more west than Hawaii, and is far more east than Maine.

Cheers!
AKDiver

It's the obvious winner for North too..... now what about South???

South is Hawaii...

What is the northern most state in the lower 48?

Without looking... Maine...

I'll go with Minnesota....

-- Dan

In other words, the second-most northern state.

I hate these kinds of questions that use most whatever, and then qualify with "lower 48", or "except Alaska and Hawaii". They should just say second-most whatever fact they are interested in.

Cheers!
AKDiver

Well, thats why it is called trivia. It is trivial knowledge that means jack. Its impractical as hell. Much like calling Alaska the 'eastern most' state. Yes, based on longitude it is, but direction is purely relative to where you are, no matter what old mariners decided 100's of years ago when they placed Grenich as the 'center of the world'. It was given as a reference point, not meant to be relative. You aren't going to tell me you are going to travel east to the Rat islands from Anchorage?

Most people do not know that Minnesota extends north of the 49th parallel. Just a brain teaser.

Well, by that standard, there is no "easternmost", as no matter where you are, you can always go east, relative to where you are. Same for "westernmost". You can always just keep going and going and going. Therefore, by that standard, every point on earth is both east and west of every other point (exceptions can be applied at the poles, depending on the logic you choose), and therefore it's meaningless to say that "this point is east of that point", as it's just as equally "west of that point". Seems rather ridiculous to me - probably why "they" set up a point of reference, eh? All hail the Prime Meridian (:

Cheers!
AKDiver

I like "GMT" also!



edited: That's "Zulu" for all you military-types out there!

further edited: Maybe someday we'll all go to using GMT for important times.... hell, we may as well use the metric system while we're at it!!!

Wow...only two K1's per lifetime now...

if only it were easier for ya'll to use a fiance visa as a dating mechanism....

Do you really believe everyone in here is using a K1 as a 'dating mechanism' ?

No but when people caution others ... when they are on their way to meet the girls waiting for them...that they can ONLY get 2 k1's...sounds fishy.




This sounds like he is talking someone out of using a K1 as a dating mechanism...

sorry if i read it wrong

That would be nice!

It sure is expensive going to-and-from Russia to meet girls. It sucks that I have to narrow the 34 women that I've "added to cart" on my website down to just two... and in a whole lifetime!

Maybe there would be an easier way.... like if they were ALLOWED to come visit me without having to get a fiancee visa. Or, maybe if I was ALLOWED to visit them without getting a tourist visa. Or maybe if our countries hadn't been INVOLVED IN A COLD WAR FOR 45 YEARS!!!!!

OR MAYBE IF THEY WERE FROM AUSTRALIA!!!!!!


Walk a mile in our shoes before you complain about the fit/feel of them.

Well....not everyone goes out LOOKING for Australian men like some do Russian women.

There's no

www.aussiemen.com website.

want to add - I'm not talking about you necessarily....but can you deny that there are men on this board that go out SPECIFICALLY in search of Eastern European women??

Maybe they're just specifically AVOIDING American women....

Cheers!
AKDiver

Oh man... there really is an aussiemen.com website...

Yup, I had to take a look too....Bet Caroline regrets opening her big mouth. That site gives a litttle too much insight into real Aussie men!

If Manhattan had the same population density as Alaska, only 20 people would live there.

I will be the first one to say that I do specifically look for Eastern European women, and AVOID American women.

I don't however, discriminate against any, I just prefer foreign women, specifically Eastern Europeans. (And more specifically, FAR EASTERN Europeans.)

It's amazing to me that (American) women don't think it's right when (American) men choose other women over them. If we were to flip the situation, and make a website with 48,000 rich, handsome, nice, caring, loving men, I'm betting women would be jumping at the chance to fly around the world (not to mention filing two K-1 visas!) to meet them.

Funny, most of the women I have told have been very supportive of me. I think there are two factors that come into play here. First the women I have told know me. Second they were open minded. When I told them I started with I have fallen love with someone. When they hear me talk about Anna and what we have been through they are even more supportive.

I dont tell just any one, I only tell those people I consider friends and who know me and know that I do not make decisions on a whim. My guess that those people (notice I said people because I dont think it is just women who have a problem) who do have a problem are going to have the problem no matter how much you try and explain your situation. Have I told ex girlfriends and such, well no because my life is no longer their concern. I think in general if people sense the USC is truly in love with the fiance then they will not have a problem with the situation, I think it is when they hear things that make them think the USC are more interested in a maid, baby factory, sex toy, or whatever that gives them reason to question this type of arrangement.

Paul Misses Anna

That's exactly what I was doing, informing the OP that the K-1 is NOT, nor should it ever be construed as a "dating mechanism" in any sense of the word.

-- Dan