Right, and diversity also means people of differing opinions, tastes, preferences etc. so some people are ok with it and some are not... that's diversity also.

This is difficult to understand??

Maybe you want a job. You have some kind of skill that is needed. You show up groomed as a Westerner, appropriately attired. Dont show up with a cross, star of david, turban, etc for a job interview. You will be politely denied. Isnt this obvious??

Otherwise you are relagate to buying a 7-11 store or driving a cab in NY, assumin a passenget would want o get in.

Sure people have the right to be offended, but I disagree - that does NOT mean anyone needs to curtail their behavior. The rights of the offended, especially the easily offended, do not take precedent over anyone else's freedom. People are free to pray planes, silently or aloud, just as people are free to engage in conversation.

I see no reason why the sight of someone praying should be "offensive".

There are people that may find crying babies offensive, the language that someone talks in or the manner in which they talk. If we cater to the easily offended, they might as well hand out muzzles as we board the plane.

Good then no one would be offended.. But religion is a big one .. and you have to respect everyone else.. pray silently and no one will bother you .. pray out loud.. and you face consequences that may come your way..

Except that I am offended by muzzles

What does this have to do with flying while arab and/or muslim?

I'm a paralegal. I work at a mid sized firm in the business litigation department. I've sat in on meetings with clients, gone to trials and have other normal paralegally responsibility. I do all of this in hijab. I interviewed in hijab. I got this job in hijab. As long as one presents a profession image of themselves, if they accessorize or cover their heads, it shouldn't make a difference. Isn't it obvious that we're members of this society and that's that?

I think expecting no one, not one person to be offended, annoyed, angry etc. at someone praying out loud in public is asking a bit much.

I know everything thinks they should respect everyone so we shoudl recpect those who want to pray wherever whenever and to those who don't like it well why not respect what they want as well which would be keeping it inside. Not everyone can win. Is God going to be upset if you pray silently? I don't think so.

What's so offensive about asking God to let you have a safe flight? So what if it's in another language.

muzzles would be very appropriate in this case then.
Dont mess with anything regarding the flying public right now...the pilot will divert the aircraft for any minor reason whatsoever in this day and age. Exercise your rights??...expect to make an unscheduled landing and you can explain for the next two days about your civil rights.

They can hold you 3 days without filing charges, and you will have no recourse.

I guess you have a civil right to tell them that you have a bomb with you too....see what that gets you.

Not sure what part of the country you live in, but I see turbaned, yarmulked, hijabed, dread-locked people in professional jobs all the time.

Arab-Americans in general are better educated and earn higher salaries than the the national rate. The Arab American population has a lower unemployment rate too. I guess the turbans and hijabs are not interfering the way you would like them to.

Please provide the source

It isn't about expecting no one to be offended or annoyed. It is about expecting the praying people to stop to accomodate your annoyance or offense. If their behavior has no impact on you other than the fact that you just don't like it - it causes you NO harm - there should be no expectation that they change to suit you.




The 2000 census.

Wow .. my work day just got much better now that I know this works.. Yeah right.. If someone doesn't like it .. it causes harm .. sorry its cut and dry.

We can't expect everyone to accept everything from everybody. We're humans, we get annoyed by every damn thing. What ever happened to live and let live? God I wish I could stop ppl from annoying me. I get very offended because one of my office mates warms up the most smelly God awful food that stanks up the place but I can't stop her. Everyone bitches about Muslims getting offended by everything...hello pot, you're black!

I did find information saying that 40% of arab americans are educated and that 34% of the rest of the US is ..

BTW the information I found was for San Fran area only .. unfortunatly the census site sucks!

This is exactly what I am saying, we can't expect everyone to accept everything, which means that you can't expect that people will not be offended or annoyed by people praying.

Correct .. that is how it works.. sorry I know it sucks that you can't do what you want all the time.. but we have to live together.. I dont pray in front of others because I dont want to push it on them.. just as I expect people to not do it around me..


Quick fix.. PRAY BEFORE YOU FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just because someone is praying within your sight doesn't mean they're pushing it on you...correct me if i'm wrong but i do believe that god respects the person that openly worships him....now..even if a person isn't religious..they understand that point...so tell me..who's the person that's wrong? God or the easily offended passer-by who just happened to walk by or just happened to be sitting next to someone who wants to ask God for help at that particular time???
wanna know what offends me?? People who try to make other ppl offended at something that they weren't offended by in the first place! If you are offended...you're offended...LOOK THE OTHER WAY...they're not forcing anything on you..just "keeping in their own bubble"...
I think you have every right to be offended. IT'S OK, BEEEE OFFENDED. Just like everyone else has the right to do as they want. they don't tell you to not be offended...they just ask that you EITHER respect them and let them be who they are OR just look the other way and leave them alone.... I don't see anything wrong with that.... we don't all have to agree..we don't all have to understand everything about what someone else is doing...but it would be nice if we could just find a peaceful way to respect that everybody is different and has differences in every aspect of their lives compared to each other individual....in a nutshell.....just let ppl live their lives ....(yeah i know..i say that all the time..but i really belive it)

edited to say this next bit...
on the "pray before you fly"... did you ever think that MAYBE just MAYBE someone is offended coz you DIDN'T PRAY before your flight that they were praying for???? ... just a thought..maybe their "quick fix" is pray before landing???

I'm offended by people who say "Lord willing!", "God willing!", "Inshallah", etc after every damn thing they say. I'm offended at the complete submission to the will/whim of a fictional character that this implies. I'm offended at the lack of control over ones' own life that this implies. I'm offended by people talking loudly, babies crying, people praying, the fact that one has to be bilingual now to work at HP so that we can understand what the hell the peons are saying, since they refuse to learn English. I'm offended by flag-wavers. I'm offended by flag-burners. I'm offended by the existence of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Mormonism, Hindu, Wicca, Scientology, and Methodists. I'm offended by local boosters. I'm offended by slackers. I'm offended by those who willfully buy GM, Chrysler, Ford, Mitsubishi, and Isuzu vehicles. I'm offended by government. I'm offended by anarchy. I'm offended by "things on the head". I'm offended by cowboy hats. I'm offended by baseball caps on sideways. I'm offended by loud rap music. I'm offended by opera. I'm offended by accordians. I'm offended by humidity. I'm offended by humanity.

As such, I would ask that y'all get off of my planet by noon tomorrow. Thank you for your compliance.

right so people can be offended, and to those who aren't offended and who do it themselves: don't be upset about people being offended or not liking something!

Im offended by lima beans also.

You show up on my plane loking a little strange...I ant flying.

I think most people generally understand this. Right, there's always someone who will be offended by something that you do. The question is, when must we change our behavior to accomodate the feelings of others?

People who get offended too much! Please find a hobby, get a drink, go to church, or get some prozak! Seriously!

If you don't believe in any kind of God - it's your loss! Maybe, you're too smart for this planet? Or just have nothing better to do but to get offended by everything? Come on, what about tolerance? Everybody's attacking everybody! What for? Everybody's entitled to their own opinion! That's what makes us human! That and some tolerance towards something others believe in while not hurting anybody! If you don't understand something it doesn't mean it's bad!

Some people hate opera. I don't understand golf! So what? I don't watch it!
AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

It's a good thing that we are different - it's normal! You just got caught up in the argument and forgotten that! That's why there's so many flawors of ice cream!

Everyone is free to believe in their own god.

I am free to believe in no god.

My exercising of that right is silent and inconveniences no one.

Those exercising their religion publicly are not allowing me the same courtesy.



(My previous list, however, was partly tongue-in-cheek. Leave it to someone to take it seriously, though. I'd really give y'all until next week, not tomorrow.)

Everyone is free to believe or not to believe. You do what you want to do with your life. As simple as that. I was a non-believer for so long that i decided to start something new. I'm the only one in my family who believes in something now. But i was tought to repsect people and if they NEED to pray in public (they really do, they're supposed to) - it's their choice! I was half laughing through reading all five pages of this myself.

And i see where you're coming from. But I also really respect people who are openely praying and wearing what they are supposed to wear considering how much crap they have to take from others on a daily basis!

I will say, however, that those who lay out their mat, kneel toward Mecca and pray 5 times per day don't bother me. Typically, they do it out of the way, they don't tend to do it loudly, and it's also considered a requirement of their religion. Likewise, Amish don't bother me. I think it has to do with half-arsed prayers for "finding a new car", "finding a parking place", "getting a raise", "keep the plane from crashing", and such that bother me. Probably because they're self-serving. Have no idea, really. Maybe it's the devoutness. Probably not though, since devout Muslims say "Inshallah" a minimum of 12 times per day (saw it on Google), and devout Xians wear it out as well ("Lord willing"). And that really DOES get on my nerves. Same as someone saying "Dude!" all the time would, or (the worst one) "Know what I mean?".

I guess then that would be your choice right? You can just hop right off and go find another. Worse case, TAKE A BUS!

Who is to say, that you don't have a mullet and buck teeth, i would find that strange. You know, it would just pop into my head that you are a rapist and run around murdering people, uh huh.

That is exactly what you are saying by if someone looks a little "strange", that they match the idiotic preconceived notions that you have of people from the middle east.

"I SEE STUPID PEOPLE"

Dude! I know what you mean!

I find the concept of people in an IMMIGRATION forum being so intolerant as I have seen in this and various other threads a bit "strange" myself... but then I am a bigot bigot. Shoot me.

I remember when domestic violence became the cause decades ago and the slogan was "break the cycle, stop the violence". If more people would attempt to educate themselves about the state of their own intolerances maybe it would break the cycle of this perpetuated hatred in the world for those who are "different" and we might see a decline in the crimes motivated by such hate. Now I know what kind of whining retort this will get, but I don't really see all that many actually trying. It starts with you and me. With one willful act to NOT react.

I used to feel the same way, but I recently realized something. Racial bias knows no borders. Persons whose ideas/beliefs are limited to their ethnicities, environments, cultures, etc are born and bred in every locale on earth. It is more "standard" as well as expected in every other country/nation for persons to couple within their own. Yes, there are always a few who are rebels and who choose mates other than their peers, but for the most part interracial/intercultural coupling is kept to a minimum. It is only here in the US where it is a little more commonly accepted because ours is a diverse population, that persons are shocked to learn that others aren't as accepting.

You will notice, too, that although this is a immigration board and many of the marraiges are intercultural, there is a marked disparity in the number which are interracial. Thus, the empathy for certain issues is bound to be lacking. The country/nation may be different, but oftentimes, the belief system is not.

Exactly Jenn. There are repeated implications that because they are offended, the praying people should pray at home, pray silently, pray before before boarding, do as I would do it or how I did it. Be offended all you want about whatever you want. Spend your life offended, I really don't care. The issue is really the expectation that people should accomodate the offense someone chooses to take.

I'm sooooo tired

And I'm offended because people are idiots!

I'm offended by this thread.

I'm offended that you're offended.

Oh yesssssss

AHH I hate cats!
I hope he doesn't try to make biscuits on me!

All the people like us are we, and everyone else is They.
Rudyard Kipling


How sad it is that intolerance, bred by ignorance and fear, so permeates the world.

AMEN TO THAT!!!!! Do you think they want to be tormented?? no, not really....They are just doing what their religion calls for and they are good believers/followers, they have more balls than I do....and they're just fine in my book

Now all of this talk about a foreign written language and not one person has mentioned how people get chinese script tatooed on their body and told it means "Strength" when it could really mean "Wuss." I know a few times I have pondered if the chinese is actually saying what it's supposed to, but it still doesn't offend me. I think that it's funny how people will make a big scene about arabic script, but not chinese. Call me wierd, but that scares me a little. Americans have come to "trust" the chinese culture so much that they are probably planning on taking over the USA and we will be so oblivious to it when it happens. We don't question their intentions, but we question the intentions of arab/muslims? That's just crazy! Anyway, I hope that one day we will look back on this ignorance and laugh.

OT, I know, but this reminded me of a funny story...

This guy was showing a friend and me his tatoo. It was a Japanese character, what he thought it meant I can't quite remember, but something along the lines of "strength". My friend, who happens to be Japanese, filled him in that his tatoo actually said, "female warrior". Laughed my azz off!

See what I mean?! It happens!

OMG...that is sooo cute!

I am flying out next month with the Hijab on. Will say if they give me a trouble...

You'll probably get frisked. I did returning home from Egypt last month in Alexandria and in London. It was right after the trouble in Lebnan started. I was like the only woman in line getting frisked. Pesky higab

Ahhhhhh, geem alert! I don't know why I find it so funny. I guess I'm just weird

LOL...hangin' around Egyptians will do it to ya