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dani_christine
QUOTE(Cian @ Aug 20 2006, 08:11 AM) *

QUOTE(dani_christine @ Aug 20 2006, 08:47 AM) *

well...all i can say is, if i ever have sons...they will not be circumcised. if they choose to do that as an adult, then more power to them...but i won't subject my child to that. no way.

i think i read someplace that the US has by far the highest rates of circumcision in the world...but that those numbers are (finally!) dropping and coming into line with the rest of the world.


False statement in bold.

Circumcision is predominant in most countries, with the exception of western Europe.

Countries with circumcision rates of 75% - 100%

North and West Africa plus much of East Africa, eg Algeria, Cameroon, Chad, Dahomey, Egypt (Muslim and Christian), Ethiopia, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea, Ivory Coast, Kenya. Libya, Madagascar, Mali, Mauretania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Tunisia, Northern Uganda, Upper Volta, Zaire [NB, some of these now have new names but it would be a real surprise if most of the guys there had grown new foreskins as a result.). Plus the Islamic areas of Asia - Afghanistan, Bahrein, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, UAE, Yemen (N+S). Plus Tonga and Samoa, with Canada and the US at the bottom end of the range (80%).

25% to 75%

The rest of Africa, parts of Asia with sizeable Muslim populations ( for example, there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan), the Pacific Islands.

0% to 25%

Central and South America and the Caribbean. Western Europe (these days Britain comes at the top end of this group - 20%). Australia and NZ, Non-Islamic Asia (though there are sizeable Muslim populations there), Soviet Union.



ok, ok...fair enough. i said "i think i read someplace..." so, in other words, i was too lazy to research. laughing.gif

still...the point is, i won't do that to my sons.
PlatyPius
After reading about all of the issues that can occur, I am SOOOOO grateful that it was done while I was a baby. I don't remember any of it, of course, so the arguments of it being "cruel" and such just make me laugh. Getting it done as an adult though....yeah, that would hurt.
LaL
I dont get not *subjecting* your son's to circumcision, but giving them NO choice on religion.
Tim and Bethanie
QUOTE(Cian @ Aug 20 2006, 08:20 AM) *
QUOTE(babybunny @ Aug 20 2006, 04:51 AM) *


actully my ex husband had a piercing down there ..AFTER we married
I divorced is azzz. really fast. I would not even allow him to touch me!
but, being uncut is against my religon its also against my belife. if you wanna be with someone
that can give you nasty infections that YOU. I refuse. huh.gif

I dont have to sleep with a man to know that something - UNCLEAN is on his body.
I know early on that being uncut is NASTY! thats why its supposed to be done when they are babies.
this is something certainly me and my husband will make sure our sons are CUT.

I realized something is all white people that like that UNCUT. cant relate - I am not white. - that explains it..


If I were a woman, I could never sleep with a man from Pakistan. They're NASTY! They stink, they are UNCLEAN!!!111 Think of all of the diseases you would get, since men from Pakistan sodomize goats and camels! Of course, if you've seen the women there, you'd know why!!!11 They're sub-human! You can ONLY get infections from Pakistani men; because they're UNCLEAN and they STINK!!!111

*removes tongue from cheek and hopes everyone "gets it" If not, let the flaming begin*


I was thinking the exact same thing while cleaning. You can not group anything nor anyone it is only a generalization often times based on assumption or personal preference. I personally don't prefer any dark skinned man, for the simple fact I don't find them attractive. Does that make them gross, disgusting, stinking, ugly, disease carrying men? NO!

I think I got it Cian. laughing.gif

I don't really care one way or the other, if the man can't wash it either way I don't want it anywhere near me.


QUOTE(mary&tom @ Aug 20 2006, 07:46 AM) *
QUOTE(Tim and Bethanie @ Aug 20 2006, 07:32 AM) *

QUOTE(mary&tom @ Aug 20 2006, 07:24 AM) *
What I find nasty is a close minded attitude. I am ok with religious choices but to just flat out state that something natural is "nasty" sounds nasty to me.

I voted that I don't care either way. If I love someone and he loves me then circumcised vs uncircumcised is a non-issue. To reject someone based on whether or not he is circumcised just doesn't make any sense to me. Saying it is unclean also makes no sense to me... we do have bathtubs and showers and sinks.

mary
Or you could always toss a little dirt on it!
When it's time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can't find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. 5:6
Just hope if you were the woman he touched, he doesn't come back and touch you again. Would put a new meaning on making mud pie! laughing.gif



LOL!

that was an interesting site... however that's not where it said to put the dirt! I had an entirely different visual smile.gif
laughing.gif Still funny, you gotta wash with dirt after touching a woman. Here we silly women are worried about men with extra skin being filthy disgusting pigs, shame on our unclean selves.
mary&tom
QUOTE(dani_christine @ Aug 20 2006, 08:47 AM) *

well...all i can say is, if i ever have sons...they will not be circumcised. if they choose to do that as an adult, then more power to them...but i won't subject my child to that. no way.



When I had my sons circumcised I didn't know that it was optional. I will tellyou what IS nasty... seeing that poor little mutilated sore thing!

My first grandson was born just under two weeks ago and my older son and his wife elected to not have him circumcised. I was a bit surprised and it made me wonder how my sons feel about having had that done to them as infants. We had known for a few months that this child (their third) would be a boy and I actually thought about asking them what their plans were... but I never did.

mary
beccaogingi
QUOTE(lal_brandow @ Aug 20 2006, 09:51 AM) *

I dont get not *subjecting* your son's to circumcision, but giving them NO choice on religion.


If a man wants to convert to a religion in which circumcision is required, he can then choose to have that done ceremonially when he converts.

I mean, non-Jewish babies aren't given a bris when they are circumcized in the hospital. So isn't it still different anyway?
moody
Yep, yep!


QUOTE(rebeccajo @ Aug 18 2006, 04:29 PM) *

QUOTE(mawilson @ Aug 18 2006, 03:50 PM) *

Wow. Almost unanimous support for circumcised penises.

Why is it that you gals think that circumcised penises look better?


Probably the same reason most men think a groomed p***y looks better.



Both my sons are circumcized. They're still rather young and until recently they thought they were just born that way. I just recently told them that they were "cut". They asked if it hurt. I asked them..do you remember it hurting?

QUOTE(Cian @ Aug 20 2006, 09:48 AM) *

After reading about all of the issues that can occur, I am SOOOOO grateful that it was done while I was a baby. I don't remember any of it, of course, so the arguments of it being "cruel" and such just make me laugh. Getting it done as an adult though....yeah, that would hurt.
PlatyPius
I love how women are the ones making this decision and saying "oh, they can just have it done later!" Having it done while an infant means that it will grow that way as the child ages. Having it done later is damn painful, and will always have a scar from the procedure.
Tim and Bethanie
QUOTE(Cian @ Aug 21 2006, 05:00 PM) *
I love how women are the ones making this decision and saying "oh, they can just have it done later!" Having it done while an infant means that it will grow that way as the child ages. Having it done later is damn painful, and will always have a scar from the procedure.
Scare tactics......if you don't keep that clean they will cut it off. laughing.gif Okay okay that was a joke. In all seriousness it would be interesting to know the percentage of uncircumisized males that have to have it done later in life, I can't see the numbers being devastating. At least not bad enough to say circumsize them ALL!
wherezdabearz
Apart from the religious aspect, I find it strange that so many people feel that it's a necessary mutilation. We don't cut off other parts of babies' bodies as a matter of course for reasons of 'hygiene'. Just needs to be washed like any other part of the body.
PlatyPius
Reasons for Circumcision in the US (Considering we have no national health care...)


QUOTE
There are strong medical reasons for circumcision - many of which actually underlie the religious and social performance of the rite.

Circumcision totally prevents Phimosis - a condition in which the opening at the end of the foreskin is too small and tight to allow it to be freely retracted over the whole glans when both flaccid and erect. For some boys this opening is so tight that the whole foreskin balloons out painfully when urinating. This is unnatural and, if not treated, can cause severe bladder and kidney problems in later life, or even death from urinary tract infection, anuria and kidney failure.

Circumcision totally prevents Paraphimosis - a condition in which the foreskin can be retracted over the glans, often with some difficulty, when flaccid but then becomes trapped in the coronal groove as the glans swells with erection. The constriction of the foreskin causes the glans to swell even more and a vicious circle sets in. Prompt professional action can return the foreskin to its original state of covering the glans, but if left a paraphimosis can cause gangrene and loss of the glans. A boy who has suffered an incidence of paraphimosis should be circumcised after the immediate relief of the symptoms to prevent it from happening again - as it surely will whilst he is enjoying sex!

Circumcision prevents Balanitis - infection of the foreskin and glans caused by bacteria and fungi which thrive on stale urine, unremoved smegma and the warm, moist environment beneath the foreskin. Irritation can also result from some individual's reaction to body soaps which contact this sensitive area. It can also sometimes be set off by certain detergents used to wash underwear. When this occurs, the inflamed area then becomes colonized by harmful bacteria.

It follows, if a foreskin is removed, it cannot become infected. The bared glans of a circumcised penis changes slightly and is not susceptible to this sort of infection.

Circumcision corrects Frenulum Breve - a condition in which the frenulum (a cord of skin joining the foreskin to the back of the glans in the cleft on the underside) is short and tight, thus pulling the tip of the glans over to a point of pain. It forms a tight web preventing the retracted foreskin from lying flat along the shaft. If not attended to, the short frenulum can rip during sex with painful and bloody consequences. It can also inhibit a boy's enjoyment of sex as he strives never to put any strain on the frenulum and thus limits retraction and suppresses his erections. Some women report that this tight band can rub and cause them pain during intercourse. In all circumcisions the frenulum is severed in part and in many it is removed altogether.

Circumcision increases 'staying power'. The most common complaint from women regarding sex is that their partners 'come' too quickly and they themselves are not brought to orgasm. Men naturally reach their orgasm quicker than women. Unless one takes the time and trouble to learn to delay orgasm until a partner has had hers, sex becomes a one-sided affair. By slightly reducing sensitivity of the glans, circumcision helps delay orgasm and thus improves sexual relations. Another bonus reported by both partners is that because there is no foreskin to get in the way the rim of the glans can be felt by the woman giving her better friction and stimulation and the man a more sensual teasing during such movements. It is significant that almost all the artificial penises on sale are modelled on the circumcised shape, ie a larger, fuller and rounded shaped glans rather than the smaller elliptical one of the uncircumcised.

Circumcision improves genital health. Research has shown that circumcised boys suffer fewer urinary tract infections than uncircumcised boys by a factor of 10. There is also clear evidence that circumcision makes a man slightly less susceptible to catching the AIDS virus. It is also well known that cervical and penile cancer are reduced by circumcision. Urologists have observed that a much higher percentage of uncircumcised men need their professional attention in old age.


This is from a British site, by the way....

http://www.circinfo.com/questions/ypq.html
Tim and Bethanie
I'm just going to guess here that the risks of infections in uncircumsiced males is probably very close to that in females. We don't going around chopping off parts of the female anatomy we refer to that as FGM, M being mutilation. If you don't practice good hygiene you are going to have problems whether male or female. It all comes (for lack of a better term) down to personal preference, and the individuals concern for themselves as well as their partner.

On the sexual side of this, that depends on the man and goes back to his concern for his partner. Circumsized men having more "staying power" no0pb.gif again that depends on the individual.

http://www.infocirc.org/mf0899.htm
A more radical résumé for the foreskin comes from Marilyn Milos, founder and executive director of the National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers in Forest Knolls, Calif. "Women fake orgasm," she says, "because men are circumcised."

Milos cites a 1999 study published in the British Journal of Urology which documented that women were more likely to have an orgasm (and less likely to experience vaginal discomfort) with an uncircumcised partner. The study concluded that the uncircumcised penis glides within its sheath of moveable skin with minimal friction. Because of this, uncut men use shorter thrusts than cut partners, who drive more deeply to launch an orgasm. The shorter thrusts of uncircumcised men, according to 71 percent of the respondents, allowed more contact with the mons pubis and clitoris, creating more orgasms for the women.

Maybe the above is why us females are more often making the choice not to circumsize our boys. wink.gif
After all we aren't going to tell you when we are pulling a.................................. IPB Image



mawilson
QUOTE(Tim and Bethanie @ Aug 22 2006, 04:47 AM) *

After all we aren't going to tell you when we are pulling a.................................. IPB Image

Wow Bethanie, I'm convinced. I'm going to keep my foreskin for the time being.
Welshcookie
wow! Very interesting!

Edit to add.....I meant Bethanie's post .... not Mawilson's decision to keep his foreskin.... laughing.gif
mawilson
QUOTE(welshcookie @ Aug 22 2006, 02:37 PM) *

Edit to add.....I meant Bethanie's post .... not Mawilson's decision to keep his foreskin.... laughing.gif

You're bad! laughing.gif
Tim and Bethanie
QUOTE(mawilson @ Aug 22 2006, 02:25 PM) *
QUOTE(Tim and Bethanie @ Aug 22 2006, 04:47 AM) *

After all we aren't going to tell you when we are pulling a.................................. IPB Image

Wow Bethanie, I'm convinced. I'm going to keep my foreskin for the time being.
laughing.gif laughing.gif laughing.gif Didn't say this was necessarily true, just had to post something that went against Cian! Two sides to every story ya know? tongue.gif
mawilson
QUOTE(Tim and Bethanie @ Aug 22 2006, 04:17 PM) *

QUOTE(mawilson @ Aug 22 2006, 02:25 PM) *
Wow Bethanie, I'm convinced. I'm going to keep my foreskin for the time being.

laughing.gif laughing.gif laughing.gif Didn't say this was necessarily true, just had to post something that went against Cian! Two sides to every story ya know? tongue.gif

I have to say that Cian's article was so convincing that I was <----this---> close to booking a circumcision appointment. tongue.gif So thanks once again for posting!
Arazia
The thing that that particular quote fails to mention are that the chances of those various conditions are about the same as the chances of complications from the circumcision proceedure itself. In general, complications in either case seem to happen in something like 1 per 500 children. That is why the medical community does not advocate it widely, because there is just as much chance of harm as good from it.
Tim and Bethanie
QUOTE(mawilson @ Aug 22 2006, 04:28 PM) *
QUOTE(Tim and Bethanie @ Aug 22 2006, 04:17 PM) *

QUOTE(mawilson @ Aug 22 2006, 02:25 PM) *
Wow Bethanie, I'm convinced. I'm going to keep my foreskin for the time being.

laughing.gif laughing.gif laughing.gif Didn't say this was necessarily true, just had to post something that went against Cian! Two sides to every story ya know? tongue.gif

I have to say that Cian's article was so convincing that I was <----this---> close to booking a circumcision appointment. tongue.gif So thanks once again for posting!
wink.gif I would much prefer one who isn't digging for gold!
mawilson
QUOTE(Tim and Bethanie @ Aug 22 2006, 05:03 PM) *

wink.gif I would much prefer one who isn't digging for gold!

LMAOOO laughing.gif
Tim and Bethanie
IPB Image
GabachaYucateca
Cut (no pun intended) b/c I just realized this thread is ancient!
SHAPE OF MY HEART
In Philippines , circumcision is a must to all Filipino men genders. If you don't do have it, you will be a laughingstock for others here. That's only a perception only here in Philippines, i don't know to others.
Eresh
I had never had sex with a man who wasn't cut before my husband. It was a little strange looking to me at first, but I love it now.
bora bora
It doesn't really make a difference to me - cut or uncut. My friends in Brazil told me that Brazilian men are uncut and that seemed strange to me...and I SWORE I'd never end up with an uncircumsed man, and look now, I married one.

I do know a guy who chose to be circumcised when he was 13-years-old because he grew up with a lot of Jews and he felt out of place since he was born in Colombian (adopted by Americans) and was not cut.
He said it was painful and he was out of commission for the whole summer.

Alex & Rachel
Doesn't make the slightest jot of difference to me. I don't mind looking at either.

I wouldn't have any sons circumcised because it seems unnecessary.
Amby
wow this thread is old. I'm down with either just pull it back and it looks the same. problem solved tongue.gif
nin
Hubby is and I like it. BUT our sons aren't. It's their bodies, their choice.
Niels Bohr
Double Rubbing! wink.gif
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