oh where's my duh award?

No need to aplogise Amal...it is Ramadan...everyone is cranky and also you seen to have alot that you SO had misconceptions on ...

I have ordered from My Halal Meat and Midamar online. Also Zabihah can help you find halal groceries and restaurants in your area.

I have a general question.

Do your husbands or fiances NOT come to the states with money?

Just curious.

Great points Amera, but remember too that these things take a long time for them to digest. Abdel watches me pay the bills online and log everything in spreadsheets for the budget, checkbook, and records of what we've paid on each kind of bill (yeah, I'm pretty anal). He's just starting to grasp things like taxes and social security and credit card bills.

We agreed not long after he started working that any money he makes from overtime he chooses to work is his. This week I will start a separate tab on our checkbook spreadsheet to move his money to in our account. It will still be in the checking account, so he can access it with his Visa Check Card, but it will be tracked separately and be totally his.

Yesterday the guy that gives him a ride home from work stopped at a seafood store and he was telling me about all the great prices they had on crab and shrimp and stuff. I asked him why he didn't use his card and buy some. Having some money set aside where he knows it is totally for his use will make him feel better about spending money, then if it's for food I can adjust to take that out of the regular budget instead of his money. He has pocket money, but he still needs the ability to buy things on impulse like I have the freedom to do.




Last night while I was watching Abdel fighting with the weedeater I realized that the owner's manual probably has a section in French. I'd recommend digging out the owner's manuals for everything in the house and putting them where he can find them. If he isn't working at first he'll have time to read them and learn how to use things without you having to teach him - a huge thing when they feel totally dependent on you. Also, even if it's just an owner's manual, it will be something in French to read - not so easy to find in the US - and reading in their own language can really help with that homesickness they will feel off and on for a long long time.

At least in Egypt, the average middle class Egyptian is very lucky to make 500 LE a month. That's the equivelent of $90. After paying for food, housing, visa fees, etc, it doesn't leave very much. A large savings account egyptside doesn't equal tons o moola stateside.

I would *NOT* accept that. He is coming *fully loaded* I don't expect much, I am not asking him for a huge diamond ring or big fancy wedding. I do however expect him to do for me whatever he would have to do to get married in Jordan.

He is buying all of our furniture, he is paying for the wedding, he is buying my gold. he is also going to buy himself a car. I don't expect him to come here with bags of money but I do expect him to have enough to start our life and I ofcourse don't mind helping. He also has the *same* expectations for himself.

My husband had never held an official job in Morocco. He raised a couple of the kids in the family and did odd jobs whenever he could get them, but that was it. I paid whatever fees his sister (his parents are deceased and she raised him) didn't pay and bought his plane tickets.

He has more than made that up since he got here though. It's been a little hard since he's never had money before so he has no concept of it, but he gives me his check every week to deposit and we make all financial decisions together. He constantly stresses to me that he wants to get our debts paid off and finish the renovations on the house. It was also his idea to offer to pay my sons tuition so he could go back to college.

He may have been poor, but I wasn't looking for money, I was looking for an intelligent man with a heart who would love me. I got what I wanted.

Oh I hear that honey! Mohamed is selling some property he owns so he'll have at least enough to buy a used car and a little to help out with the bills and what not until he finds work. He knows how I feel about women supporting men. I never did it before and I don't plan on starting now.

He has paid all his medical exam fees, visa fees, courier fees, etc. plus he's paying for his airfare to fly here.

you can order one fairly cheap here.
Also, if your toilet is really close to your bathtub, you can get one of those shower heads on a 6 foot hose too.


Amen to all the above

If I get enough of a tax return this year I'm goin' for the whole shebang! I found one that 1) has a heated seat, 2) the water is heated (for those cold winter morning/nights), 3) you control whether it hits your front, behind or all of the above 4) remote controlled.



I think it's like $600 from cleanbutt.com .

Hahaha...cleanbutt.com...gotta love that name

Doodle's gettin' a top of the line asss washer...woooot!

I've heard it called a bum washer but this is funny

so i have to ask a stupid question.

so you use the bidet to clean yourself...but then how do you dry off? Aren't you soaked in water?

i always thought it was a french water fountain

That's where the TP comes into play.

but I thoguht they don't use TP?? so the not using TP thing isn't a "wasting paper" thing, but a "it doesn't clean you enough" thing???

My husband came to this country with $20 from his brother. It has never bothered me although I wouldn't HATE getting a flower every now and then. He has bought me a watch and some earrings since he's been here. I would have rathered him come here with no money in his pocket than work in Morocco 40-50 hrs a week for maybe $50. He doesn't have an advanced degree and from what I understand that really doesn't make much difference in Morocco. We are building our life together and I was perfectly ok with that. His medical, visa etc I paid for some and his brother paid for some.

Exactly! The water cleans you and the TP dries you. We're not anti-TP we're anti-left-over-poopie-on-your- butt-after-you-wipie.

I get it now We had one in our honeymoon suite, but I didn't know how to use it so I stayed away from it. I just googled how to use it, and after this discussion....


BRING ON THE BIDET

Mine came with the maximum amount possible plus his Uncle in Canada has wired him money for AOS.

mine came with quite a bit..no worries there....he just didn't know it would go so quickly

just being curious and really interested:

have the SOs had the chance to "prepare" themselves for their new life in the US?
Did they read/google/watch things about it? Seems like there are so many "obstacles" I wouldn't have ever thought of (thinking microwave, toaster...).

I think you're a bunch of very brave, patient and great wives!

One other question: do all of you speak your SO's native language?

whenever I tried to explain something about america hicham would say "Oh please I have seen tons of American movies I know what to expect" I was like ok! He loves it here and likes how everything is in order and clean and convenient!

I speak French and English and Hicham and his family speak French since Morocco was once occupied by France so most people there speak French.

nuh uh....the one i want has a dry cycle too!! shoots hot air up there so no tp at all. think of the $$$ you'll save in tp!!




Don't you have the same obstacles? I mean life in Germany has to be a wee bit different then life in the US right?

Hubby's not gonna recognize that contraption as bum washer at all when he gets here! You're gonna confuse the crap outta the man

Hicham's family had a microwave and a toaster so that wasn't a problem. The only new thing he has come to love is the clothes dryer.

no pun intended???

Not intended but a darn good one if I do say so myself

why would he be confused?

I could care less if mine comes with any money at all as long as he comes!!! I know his financial situation and I know that he's starting even now to save for the time that he won't be able to work so he can still send his sisters money but I make plenty and live very comfortably and I'm not marrying him for anything other than the fact that I'm in love with him. I know in time he will be able to support me but realisitically speaking I know it won't happen overnight.

Dag...now that's what Mohamed calls "technology". He once heard me warming something up in the micro and asked what that noise was. I said, it's the microwave. He said, oh yeah you have technology there.

That's exactly why I asked: even though lots of things are the same, there is SO much I had to (and still have to!) learn: lots of money- related things for example, we don't use checks at all in Germany, and oh I don't know- there is plenty!

The whole insurance system, school system, the salty butter

My husband is living in Germany with me now, has been living here for years now and that helps a lot, just because he knows what's different. I'll move to the States early next year, but have lived there for more than a year before- so most things are familiar by now (but there's always something new somewhere).

One thing I'm not sure I'll ever get used to is driving in the States though- I'm just not good at it .

And even though my English is ok, it took me a good six months living in the US to comfortably order a pizza on the phone because I never got what they asked me (too fast, too many choices)

The one thing I think has made it a little less stressfull for me was that I had the chance to visit numerous times before starting my life in the US, so I could get used to most things one at a time...

I think people have misunderstood what JP was saying. She clearly isn't going through all this to marry her fiance for money. If any of you have seen here, she is quite beautiful and could easily have a rich guy here. What is rich or even middle class in most MENA countries doesn't come close to what is rich here. If a guy makes only $50 a month, he could come with six months salary and that would show that he thought it was important to bring *something* when he came and it would be a very meaningful sacrifice on his part - while still only being $300. I know not all men are the same, but I think for some of more traditional guys, they simply would not have it any other way. Their perceived responsibilities to their wife are not lessened because she is American, and they want to do what they feel is right. I didn't care about the size of my mahr, but my husband did. I make a lot of money and didn't need him to come with money, but he insisted. He stayed two months past his visa to continue working. It varies person to person, but I don't think having expectations of your man's responsibilities to you means loving him any less than those of you who accept them empty handed, nor is it a bad thing for a man to insist he follows tradition.

I was just going to say that JP is HOTTT. haha no but she is really pretty and I guess I have been lucky enough to see her pictures which I have saved on my computer and set as my desktop background.


About the money- As most of you know Hicham and I are a pretty young couple and Hicham was still in school as was I when we were doing all the visa stuff so neither of use were really racking in the dough. I didn't expect Hicham to bring much money, but he insisted on bringing enough to live for about 5 months. He said he wanted to have enough money to live off of until he found a job. Well he found a job right away and he feels great making money and using it to help pay our bills and buy groceries. He insisted on him not getting a cell phone until he had saved up some and last week he got his cell phone and he is really excited about it.

Sarah

Thanks Rebecca. I am glad someone understood what I was saying. Arab men take great pride in being the head of the house. Part of that means knowing your financial responsibility. Like Rebecca said, I'm not expecting him to give me the moon and stars but I do expect him to fulfill his responsibilities as a man and he has the same exact expectations of himself. I dont want to offend anyone here but it is very unlike an Arabic man to accept things from a woman. My fiance will not accept anything from me. I don't think it would be wrong for anyone here to have expectation of their SO when they come regardless of their financial situation. Like Rebecca said even if they make $50 per month and just bring some, it shows something.





Ok you guys ar emaking me blush lol, no seriously, I thought the restraining order said you couldnt keep my pics. LOL jk.

Am I the only one who finds that a little bit creepy?

Apparently you're the only one who didn'tk now I was kidding? hahaha.

Well snaps I came to Algerie, so when and if he comes he better come with some cash

o snaps I can just imagine my husband in the same situation

sweet Doodle... i have to show my husband this www he will get a kick out of it

O snaaaaaaaaps Kara you CRACK me UP!!!!

I speak classical arabe fluently, learning the Algerien djzar daily, also speak French pretty well amoung other languages... so I am OK on that front LOL

Well I have lived in a few European countries including Germany aaaaaaand not much difference between USA and Germany when you compare them to the MENA So ye I guess we are some very brave women... Hmmm ye I keep reminding myself of that sabr(patience) and brave part everytime I went to go to my neighbour to use the toliet and get water...since we have none of both here ... and donnot remind me of the whole "bathtime"...

Snaps Kara, dont ya just love "technology"?

O snaps Sarah, you are the reason I keep logging back into VJ... your crazy funny comments crack me up...you and Kara!

My cats would love it! For now they just drink from the toilet and bathtub. My tomcat even had the nerve this weekend to give me "the look" and continue drinking while I did the "I need to pee" dance.


In response to the men being the head of the house: Abdel did bring presents for me - lots of beautiful outfits, some he even had custom made. He also painstakingly chose presents for each member of my family. I know he had to work hard to get the money to do that since work wasn't something easy for him to come by.

He also refuses to let me put his name on the house until he can pay me "his half" of what I've already paid into it, even though he has done a ton of the renovation we've done since he got here, and I've told him that labor is very expensive here for much of the work he's done.

He does want to be able to pull his weight financially, but thank goodness he is not hung up on the normal Arab macho man image. He is a feminist and can respect that he married an intelligent independent woman that doesn't need a man to support her. He certainly does want to be self-supporting, but realizes that sometimes life doesn't always give us what we want right away. He is having a hard time accepting how long that can take sometimes, but he is accepting it.

Incidentally, my last husband who I feel was using me for a green card did pay for everything himself, and refused to ever let me support him. As I look back on my life I realize that marriage is a place where people depend on each other. When one party doesn't look out for the other party's needs it causes problems in the marriage. It doesn't matter what the nature of those needs are, needs are needs - even financial needs. There will be times when each spouse gets their turn to take care of the other one in most long-term marriages.

I'm not saying a woman should let a man use her, but she shouldn't be so proud either. It's a fine line, but I think if you are careful you can successfully navigate it.

I never realized or gathered from your other posts that spoke it fluently. Where did you learn it and what do you mean Classical? Do you understand other dialects? If I am being noisy just smack me. ok but not too hard.




I'm not proud and I don't expect him to support me financially either. I have a really good job and make enough money for the both of us and then some. That is not the point. Even if he made 1/4 of what I make, that is fine with me. I don't think this is Arab macho man, this is his responsibility as a husband and man. My fiance has a saying, "its better to work in Sh!t, then to live in Sh!t". He is willing to do anything when he gets here and realizes that he has to start over.

I'm not sure if this is something just anyone can understand, this is a huge part of our culture. Lets just say I were to pay for him to come here and support him financially, if anyone found out, he would be humiliated. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but its just how things are. I am more than willing to look out for his best interests and help him every step of the way, but I am by no means going to support him financially. He would not accept that, his family would not accept that, my family would not accept that and furthermore neither would I.

This doesnt mean that I am not supportive.

Apparently you didn't catch the laughing face attached... that should have been an indicator that I was also kidding

Amal, oh my goodness that made me smile! you are so right! patience is the biggest thing you can give to them. Everything you said is sooooooooooo true! Just be patient cuz u do have to teach them every thing. not ONE thing is familiar to them. and not ONE custom here is like "home". But trust me they do catch on, it might take some longer than others but they do see how "america is not like the movies"! (that's my favorite saying!) They will adjust, just be there for them and have lots of patience because you do have to go over so many things.

I am on a verge of losing all of my patience I I used to consider myself very patient...It is all gone up the smoke...

Why Ella?

I'm glad to hear that someone knows what I'm talkin about! Mine has adjusted really well but there were certainly obstacles (as afore stated) and there are only a couple more small things we have to adjust...after that, all should be good in "not like Jordan" land... I agree that one of my favorite things was..."I've seen American movies....etc.." and the look on his face when he would say that here and end it with..."but that's not what the movies portrayed".... I have told him before..."think about it...would you want me to believe about you what the movies portray about arabs"?... that made him REALLY think and he hasn't said that phrase since......

I HAVE lost my patience before and it wasn't pretty at all... I STILL get frustrated when I am misunderstood...that's one of the things that most p!sses me off.... at first..it was kind of cute..the whole language barrier thing (and his english was pretty good) ... but for example... the other day..we got into an argument over something stupid..and after I said my piece..I finnished it with the word "dammmn" and he thought I was using the word bad towards him and got really heated about it. I'm sure most of you know that in this case it is just used to express frustration and nothing more... yeah it really bent me out of shape to continue arguing over the meaning of that word...

PATIENCE
PATIENCE
PATIENCE
breathe IN the nose
and
OUT the mouth!!!!!!

amal

Don't worry Amal, you're not alone. I've had to bite the tip of my tongue off more than once with Abdel. In fact, the more homesick they get, the worse it is. He went through a phase where he could complain about his family, but I didn't dare even act like I heard him, much less agree. The minute I did, they became perfect and I was a villain. Of course I've also heard a hundred times how there are no differences between here and there - Morocco is just as advanced as the US - uh, ok.

I've heard it gets better after they go home for a visit and suddenly realize that this is home now. I can't wait until we can afford to try that theory out.

Oh yeah, Abdel is always telling me what I meant too, but of course if I do the same I am wrong, he never meant what I thought he did. I've learned to give up and just apologize and later maybe he will understand that wasn't what I said. It is getting better though as he learns the subtle meaning of everyday words.

Hang in there, I know what you're going through.

One of the things about helping your SP adjust is to understand the symptoms of culture shock. This link is written for a volunteer organization located in Africa, but it is applicable to anyone who finds themselves ina foreign culture for more than just a short holiday.



Sometimes the little problems or behaviors are the result of culture shock and we do not even realize it.



http://www.volunteerafrica.org/red/cultureshock

MBP, Wow, thanks so much for the link. I'm going to show it to Abdel tonight. I think it should help him a lot because he is definitely having a lot of those symptoms.

Wow I looked at that www and I almost checked yes to every one...Snaps I guess I suffer form culture shock too