Subahan'Allah!!! In light of Ramadan being just around the corner... and all the strange and ill posts and replies I have read since finding VJ...( I donnot even know what what most are talking about...nor do I care...)

I thought I would share this film made by A href="ummahfilms.blogspot.com/2006/07/videoblog-7-seasonal-muslims.html">UmmahFilms. Inchallah it will remind us all , especially the Muslims here that Allah (swt) sees and knows all we do. There are no seasonal or part-time Muslims(submitter; believers)...And it is quite a shame that many people only call themselves Muslim cos they married Mr. So-and-so or they enjoy the perks of being Muslim when it is convient. Of course, in films and the media Islam is totally disorted but when I hear everyday people, esp who call themselves Muslims ... I wonder who hijacked my deen and why? I mean, I understand not all people really believe in Allah (swt) and are not care at all about Akhiraah. And as we commited ourselves to Islam, the submittance,worship and praise of Allah(swt) ... and also as this a forum about family immigration ...We should be more supportive of others and remember what our mothers told me when we were young "If you do not have something nice to say do not say it anything"

Anyway that is my opinion and I hope you all enjoy the film.



Peace and Blessings

Like you said, this is a website about FAMILY IMMIGRATION.

Unfortunately the phrase "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all" has been said several times but it doesn't seem to work here- plus everyone sees things differently so what may sound mean to one person may be fine to another ya know?

"And it is quite a shame that many people only call themselves Muslim cos they married Mr. So-and-so or they enjoy the perks of being Muslim when it is convient" This sounds like something that could be hurtful to some people. Who are we to label people as being relgious due to it's convenience? To me I think people should be concerned about their own personal reltionship with God and not spend time worrying about who is "truly" religious and who is not.

That's just my opinion. I used to be religious and I am not anymore but I always felt that it is a very personal matter and decision.

Take care,
Sarah

I definetly agree with this Part even though I am Muslim and born and still muslim but I think no one has the right to be judging anyone and your relationship with god is something very personal..

Peace be upon you, Sarah



I think I made it clear in my 2 warnings and disclaimers I didnt direct it at ANYONE ... In my last post you attacked saying basically that I shouldnt post anything religious as this isnt a religion board and what not. As I have said before, "If ya donnot like donnot read " ...

The whole posts basis was to say " Hey, you out there, especially Muslims who should be living by s certain code prescribed in the Qur'an... we should stop being crazy, judgemental people backbiting...and go back to our roots... what Islam taught us...about being nice, friendly, supportive" OK...that's my message...

And why did I stress Muslims...cos first of I am Muslim, second of I care what people say and think about Islam/Muslims, third of all what Islam ( and several religions have the same vibe)... love your neighbours, family and even your enemies.

And by the way, Thanks very much for replying...somehow I knew you would...and I really pray that you. But I do wonder why choose to pick on me? Hmm...I am clearly see I am NOT the one one here posting Islamic based posts...Anyway donnot distrub me with your trivial nitpicking and Have a happy and blessed life.









And a PS to anyone.... This postwasn't another post to start complaints and whining...it was to share the video on http://ummahfilms.blogspot.com/2006/07/vid...al-muslims.html for the Muslims and anyone else who thinks they would enjoy it. The short film is comical film about Ramadan and seasonal Muslims only coming to the Eid prayers...

Peace, Blessings and Hugs to you all !!!



Henia

Henia,
I don't think I am picking on you, but I do have a right to voice my opinion as everyone else does, right? If I only read things I will agree with or like then I would be oblivious all the bad things in the world going on that make me sad and angry. I don't want to not read something just because I might not agree wth it.

"Anyway donnot distrub me with your trivial nitpicking and Have a happy and blessed life. "

Wow, that seems pretty rude to me and all I did was give you my opinion about what you posted. I can share my views just as you can and if you see it as trivial nitpicking then I am sorry for you. Why am I not allowed to post my opinion about what you said above? To me religion is very personal, that's all I said.

You said that we should all stop being judgemental and crazy etc. but above you accused people of being Muslim because their husbands are? That just seems contradicting to me.

Anyways I can reply to any post that I want to and you can do the same and so what if we don't always agree? We're allowed to disagree!

Sarah

I couldn't agree with this more. I understand Henia's point too that sometimes it's nice to remember our roots.

I am one who grows weary of assumptions... the concept of "seasonal muslim" rubbed me wrong but I'm not going to complain about it. Everyone has an opinion. I have found it insinuated many times that because I was not "born" muslim I couldn't be considered a "real" muslim. To who? Another human? So what? It's between me and Allah. That's what matters (to me).

Hypocracy seems to be a universal constant... not only in religion. I personally don't feel any human walking this planet is perfect enough to judge another in the eyes of god. I do much better to worry about what's in my own backyard.

Now before my words are misunderstood... they are aimed at no one in particular other then the first 2 sentences. The rest is me blowing hot air because I adore to make things with words...

An I haven't even put up my Ramadan tree or baked any Ramadan cookies yet. LOL

Thanks for sharing Henia. I haven't gotten a chance to watch the video but I will.

Things will speak to people differently. I thought Henia posted this not as an accusation directed at anyone but as way to combat a lot of the negativity around us (which we cannot change) with self-examination and self-reflection because we can change ourselves. I can condemn cartoon protests and other actions that I feel are destructive to Islam until I am blue in the face, I can get upset by the negative ways Muslims are portrayed, but in the end, all I can really do is work on me

Rebecca

Don't make me take my shoe off... LOL

LOL Don't forget the wooden spoon.

Well to me she made it pretty clear that to her it is a shame that people are only Muslim when it is convenient, which is exactly what she said. Maybe that wasn't an accusation but to me it seemed like she was being somewhat judgemental about those who choose Islam because their husbands are Muslim.

I said she was contradicting herself because she posted that phrase then said we should all stop being judgemental.

Anyways, Henia if you don't like my posts don't forget there is always the ignore feature so you can choose not to see what you don't want to see.

I think it's good that you posted a movie, I just don't agree with some of the paragraph that followed it.

Sarah

.

Esalaamu Aleikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Baraketu...

I am not sure if you watched the film, but Seasonal Muslim is the title... it is comical dawah film. And that is why was the post was titled that.

And also I clearly made disclaimers for a reason, as people seem to turn a well intended thing into something totally its opposite.

And also I was born a Muslim either... and I donnot go around preaching Islam either. I am proud and thankful to be a Muslim. And more then happy and willing to share my deen with people who are interested. And if we were to cross out Muslim and Islam...and put Christian or Buddist...the message would still be the same... LOVE THOU NEIGHBOUR and BE NICE.

Personally, I am thankful for finding this forum for 3 reasons- 1 immigration info and 2 meeting three friends here and 3 the lovely posts Rahma and Rebecca post. Other then it seems the forum is full of whining and backbiting, which I donnot care to be apart of.

I am not even worried ya know...cos I know Allah(swt) knows me better then anyone and knows my intentions and soon I will be getting married... And nothing is going to get me down and let me forgot those 2 things.



Peace be upon you all and May Allah protect us from the whispers of the Shaytan.

Henia,

I read your post, and I am not a religeous woman, however I do consider myself a spiritual one.

I looked and looked for a faith that I felt I could relate to. On my quest, I found things about each belief system that I fell in love with and hold onto. I cannot sit here and say I have been able to surrender to just one, as they ALL are quite similar and I embrace all of them with an open heart and mind. Although I do feel drawn mostly to the teachings of Buddha. I have Lord Ganesh on my desk, a cross in my bedroom and a hamsa in my doorway.

Many people have questioned me, asking me how this is possible to embrace all. I never knew quite how to answer them-but you made a very good statement and have made the answer quite simple.

It is in the "roots". When you say, "return to roots"-it is a beautiful statement, as the roots of all spirituality encompass Peace, Love and Tolerance. Whether it is Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, or Shintoism-when it is practiced in it's true form, "roots"-as you say-the common factor between belief systems is not all that different.

I liked your post.

Peace be upon us all.

Rose

Wow...harsh

Yes, that was not a very loving comment.

Henia,

I will reiterate...

My statement was a statement made in general as I said clearly. I posted a thought I had. If you wish own it, that's fine. It wasn't my intention that it was directed AT YOU. So they are not my teeth marks in the back. To my friends I am known as a "blitherer". I tend to just say what I'm thinking, whether it applies anything else or not.

Rose,

Your post reminded me of a necklace I saw online recently. The blog I found it on said it was purchased in Lebanon.

Peace and Blessings be Upon you Rose...and Everyone!!!



I am glad you understood my meaning ... and I too had hard time finding my true path... way of thinking -religion that emcompassed what I had in my heart...it is hard... most religion have that universal "love" as its message... I am just sad people do not use it in daily life...just when its convient for them. It is a shame that we, as humans pick and choose who and when we are nice and when we go back to our "roots" our born nature...



I pray and hope all is well with you, your family and your visa journey...



and Peace, Love, Blessings and alots of ((((hugs))))



Henia

Henia wouldnt it be easier to email your 3 friends then to post to a forum of whining backbiting members?

JP, Sarah, myself, and whoever else is from a different faith, I think that we all find this forum becoming biased because everything that is posted is related to Islam....This forum has become less and less immigration based, and due to that, things are becoming more and more catty....I remember a time, where EVERYONE got along with just talking about everyday things, our daily plans, future plans, and things relating to us and our SO....sometimes i wish this forum was still like that....I think its great to be in touch with your faith and relationship with god, but not everyone here is muslim, nor catholic/christian, so again ill add, maybe just maybe, for the sake of people constantly bit*hing, we should keep it Immigration based, and if anyone feels the desire to post something, like this topic that was started, it should be kept to off topic....and if you fear the readers in off topic bashing you, then maybe its a sign it shouldnt be posted.....

just my two cents, not meant to cause a ruckus or step on anyones toes

Thank you Kelly, I really appreciate what you said and I agree with you. Like you said, and like I have tried to say before- this is an immigration site but you wouldn't know it by looking in this forum. I am not asking anyone to hide who they are or anything like that, just that we all find a common ground- which could be immigration and go from there.

Goodnight!

Sarah

I think it would be helpful to look at the actual descriptions of the forums.

The Immigration Forums are clearly separate from the General Discussion Forum. The Regional Forums fall under "General Discussion".

General Forums >>> Regional Discussion "This Forum is dedicated to discussion on the major regions around the world. Topics of discussion may include travel, moving, what to eat and any other experience you may wish to share or inquire about. Have fun!"

My two cents is people post what they want and skip over what they want. If you feel compelled to comment on something you disagree with go ahead.

Rahma has taken to labeling the threads "Muslim Content". Henia followed suit today. If the content is objectionable, skip over it or comment, but restricting discussion in a general discussion forum does not seem like the appropriate solution.

I understand that, I just think it's too bad that religion plays such a big role in this forum.

ok, i understand that bosco but why when someone disgrees with the topic posted, they get hammered for it?


also....islam is a contraversial subject.....its apparent as it has stirred up sooo much drama here....i dont know about all of yuo, but if people were bashing my religion, i would take my opinions and such elsewhere where people believed in the same things as me

And I understand how you feel Sarah, but there are also people who feel the opposite way. The women who post about Islam having taken to labeling their posts as such and that seems like a reasonable compromise. I have not seem them bring Islam into discussion in the threads not labeled as such recently ~ although I may have missed something.

ahhh man... not this again..

I think it's strange that when I posted my opinion about this thread I got replied to in a not very nice way at all and was told to ignore the thread all together. Am I not allowed to post here because I do not agree? I did not want to ignore it because I had something to say about it. Everyone here defends their religion and views and the only thing I did was state and defend my beliefs that religion is highly personal and should be kept that way.

I am still quite surprised at the contradicting way that being judgemental was expressed.

It has stirred up so much drama. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Islam. I am learning to love this religion more each day and am sure I will convert in the future. I just feel when something is posted regarding any religion, Islam in particular, there will be some comments made that does not make some people happy. Sometimes I almost cringe when I see another thread started about Islam because I know that it is going to turn into a fighting match eventually.

I know! I am like Kelly- if it caused so many people to get riled up and to say hateful things then I would be the first to stop talking about that subject. It seems like that would end a lot of headaches.

Kelly,

This isn't only the case with the Islam-related topics. It is how many people here react to just about any post. You see various reactions to just about any topic. People have flipped in this forum about someone posting about drug use or alleged marriage fraud, someone posting sadness about their wait and another intrepreting that as jealousy or a lack of support - there is quite often reactions at all ends of the spectrum to even the most benign of subjects.

I think we should all keep in mind that immigration can be stressful. Not only that, but we all have various personal matters going on that others may or may not know about. Add in language differences, the various ways people have expressing themselves, and the written versus verbal nature of these boards and it is easy to be misunderstood. I think the decorum of this board is best kept by posting and replying with respect, and cutting each other a break if something doesn't sound quite the way we want to hear it. I don't think we have any "bad" women in this forum and if someone posts something that rubs me wrong, I try (not always successfully) to keep in mind that it may just be how I am reading it.

Rebecca

I can definitly understands ones desires to share with others things they believe in. Many of share common threads with each other. As we all know, even if you put a disclaimer on a thread warning of the content, it's not going to discourage people from going in there, in fact, its only going to encourage repsonses we don't want to get. Which will lead to fighting and members leaving, etc. I mean I think by this point, we can all safely say that we have gotten pretty personal on this thread. Even without the relgious talk, this forum is not really about immigration as much as it is about our own personal experiances.

I don't have issues with Islam or any other religion for that matter. I think some of Heina's remarks were pretty harsh and there are some members that will not take them lightly. I don't think they were directed at one particular person, but in a follow up post she wrote "Personally, I am thankful for finding this forum for 3 reasons- 1 immigration info and 2 meeting three friends here and 3 the lovely posts Rahma and Rebecca post. Other then it seems the forum is full of whining and backbiting, which I donnot care to be apart of." I can't get over this statement. How can you make that statement and, in the same thread, say: and also as this a forum about family immigration ...We should be more supportive of others and remember what our mothers told me when we were young "If you do not have something nice to say do not say it anything"

With all that said, I think there has been alot of fighting in here lately among members of this forum and on top of that, we are being attacked from members everywhere! I think we need to find somekind of middle ground. I mean if we were all sitting in one room together, I think we would be discussing things we could all take part in or be able to contribute too. I mean if you want to start a topic about Islam, thats cool, but please remember that everyone can voice their opinions in it and if you disagree there is no need to make mean remarks towards the rest of the group. I'm not whiney.

Telling us not to be judgemental and to love eveyone followed by:

judging women who are Muslim because their husbands are, followed by:

Openly saying she only likes 3 people in this forum...


doesn't make sense to me!

I agree with Salwa. Religion should be a personal thing. You shouldn't wear your religion on a sleeve, or ever judge someone according to your religious beliefs. If you find yourself saying "S/he's not a good muslim, look at what s/he's doing!", that's what I'm talking about. Cause then you can start judging people who aren't muslim, and then we end up with all sorts of problems.

Religion is a personal matter. Judge someone by their actions, not by any religious standards. Thank you, shukran, merci!

Okay, I'm just going to say it...

Welcome to life. Some people are religious. Some people are not. Some people are more politically oriented. Others are not. This forum is not any different then the "real world". Expecting people to bend to your level of comfort just isn't practical (no matter which side of the fence you're standing on, or even sitting atop it.)

This forum is dedicated to the ME/NA. These countries are Islamic nations, and religion plays a huge open role in day to day life, much more then it does here in America. Therefore people are going to talk about it.

I think respect and care is being taken above and beyond the "call of duty" to separate out openly Islamic threads so that those who are uncomfortable with it or not interested can simply go about life without so much as a ruffle. If you tread into those threads, the responsibility lies in your own hands. Yep, people are going to come slinging stones and arrows and those posting are well aware. Just goes to show the present mentality level in this world today. Intolerance is everywhere.

Now, I'm about to say something that will most likely get me flamed and shunned but I have shut up about it until I'm about to pop. For those who are not with your SO yet... there is a good possibility that you will be faced with Islam on a daily basis if he is Muslim. Mohammed is not a "rah rah" muslim, but it is still a deep part of him and it is in our daily lives. I'm not saying everyone here has an SO who is a "rah rah" muslim, but don't kid yourself that you can erase this in him. It's going to be part of your life together whether its a very small part or what you build your life together on.

This is a good place to gain knowledge and to practice tolerance. It's a good way to gain a deeper insight into what makes your SO tick. Again I'll reiterate... you can say "he's not a devout muslim" but it's still going to be a part of him because of the society he is coming from.

Again I'll say I think many are going out of their way to be considerate. This forum is certainly biased towards Islam BECAUSE THESE ARE ISLAMIC NATIONS our SOs are from. No one is trying to draw lines here. It's just a fact of life.

Peace, love and tolerance... god willing.

If this is how you feel, you could apply this to your own replies on the Islam-related posts

We are all different and people won't handle things how you think you would handle them. There are plenty of choices people make here I disagree with. I don't necessarily feel the need to announce "if I were doing what you were doing, I would stop".

I am not bringing this up to be contentious - only to say you could apply this to your replies as well as the initial posts and it would get the same result of ending a lot of headaches.

Rebecca

WOW!
That's really all I can say at this moment. Just WOW!

I've been enjoying these video blogs popping up. The presenter is getting better as he goes along. The first few were kinda hard to watch, with the timing being very bad.


I'll make my comments on the ensuing discussion on Jeans thread, when I get my head together.

Just waiting..... I just have 2 questions............

Is that a real heart cloud and did you take the picture?

I, for one, am NOT taking my opinions elsewhere. My opinions have been here for almost 3 years, I have tough skin and staying here.

Jackie

play nice children, play nice.

As far as seasonal Muslims, well it isn't just the converts stemmed from marriage. I have seen a huge amount of Muslims from birth that smoke, drink, cheat, have sexual relations out of marriage, drugs...the list goes on, but they choose not to eat pork because they are muslim, then claim to be part of the one and only true religion and everyone else will go to hell. Of course this is true of all religions, so I would never post this and claim it is only in Islam. We just need to remember that there are people who believe and live their religion and those who don't. Nothing I can do about it, nor will I try. Hopefully I can just be who I am, and hopefully what I try portray will rub off on others. We are not all perfect here, but most have kind hearts.

I do believe we all have a right to post our opinions here, just keep it respectful towards each other, is it that hard?

Yep, it's a real heart cloud... just the way nature made it. I didn't take it, but found it on www.cloudappreciationsociety.org. The cloud picture in my avatar I did take. It's a hobby. I have a thing for clouds.

Frankly, I find very little Islam being discussed here. What is discussed here is an amalgum of personal opinion buttressed by the belief that the majority of converts here seem to hold that anything can be Islam, it's all a matter of your own point of view and personal relationship with God, all of which must be respected as a tenet of politically correct politeness. While that is true, it is only to an extent, and much less of an extent than some here would have others believe. There are divine laws that overrule personal opinion, although that seems to hold no one back when they want personal opinion to be the measure of faith. I find that to be quite odd, but then, I'm not a convert, so I'm not sure what they are being taught these days, but I wouldn't call it Islam as most Muslims know it.

That's my personal opinion, so you have to respect it lol!

This is simply my observation as a born Muslim of many years, and none of this is meant to be insulting, although I'm sure there are some who will take it that way. I don't see the posts thru the eyes of a new convert, and those who are new converts probably can't see my posts thru the eyes of a born Muslim, so there are going to be gaps in understanding each other, no doubt. However, its is my warning to the non-Muslims in this forum to:

1. Not take their Islamic training from this place.

2. Please excuse the fervor of those with "convertitis", the need to constantly talk about your faith even if you know very little. There is often little tolerance for others when one is sure that they have found the only true path.

3. None of us is perfect and can emulate what we believe to be the ideal all the time.

I don't post here much on the Islam threads anymore because of the above and because there is a predominant group-think that is off-putting, so you don't have to be non-Muslim to be turned off by much of what goes on here.

One more thing, the history of Islam, despite what right wing talk show hosts will tell you, is one of accomodation and acceptance of members of our sister faiths, Christianity and Judaism, and a belief toward others who are friendly towards us that there is no compulsion in religion. We have some very sweet Muslims and non-Muslims here, and in that tradition, if you are really trying to follow the True Path, this should be the one forum where all can state their case, discuss their faiths, and get along just fine.

That is Allah's intent, and our goal. Keep it in mind as you post and, insha'allah, we wil see each other in a more gentle and kinder light.

oil of olay is GREAT for tough skin, jackie!!! my grandmother swears by it!!

*runs to hide*

hahaha I hope you have a good hiding place.

Here are some cool concepts this thread has raised in my own mind: Compassion, Humity, Support...







I'm such a spelling retard... that's HUMILITY

Run, Run, Run.

QUOTE(rclouse @ Jul 30 2006, 07:22 AM)

I agree with Salwa. Religion should be a personal thing. You shouldn't wear your religion on a sleeve, or ever judge someone according to your religious beliefs. If you find yourself saying "S/he's not a good muslim, look at what s/he's doing!", that's what I'm talking about. Cause then you can start judging people who aren't muslim, and then we end up with all sorts of problems.

Religion is a personal matter. Judge someone by their actions, not by any religious standards. Thank you, shukran, merci!

I am not muslim... and neither is Jamal. But, even if he WERE muslim... that would not be a reason for me to change my faith, my belief... my relationship with God is PERSONAL... and does not have naught to do with anyone else... OTHER THAN for me to live my life as an example of Christ's work. With that said, I agree partially with rclouse... religions IS personal... but, I DO wear my religion on my sleeve... more than that, actually... it is part of my make-up as a human being... it isn't a blouse that I can take on or off as the mood strikes me, or when it becomes too dirty...
I have studied many religions because I like to LEARN about different cultures, beliefs, etc... there are a couple of CONSTANT equations that I have found to be relevant in my studies... that is tolerance, compassion, and a general love for fellow man (this includes respect for differing views... IMHO)...
I don't try to persuade one person from one faith/non-faith to my own... I feel the best thing to do is to live my life as an example...
For those of you who know me, I do not shy away from speaking my mind... professing my faith... but I try to NOT be over-bearing, etc... I can understand both sides of the coin... for those of us who are of different faiths... and for those who are not yet on that journey... but, I admire how the ladies that I have become friends with...we have done so BESIDES the fact that our faiths differ... and we can talk together WITHOUT demeaning and/or attacking each other for those differences...
Just my .02 cents worth...
My sincerest wishes and prayers for us all!
Lynne