I was reading the thread about Laila's situation and I couldn't help but read the post from Mermaid that said:



My divorce from my Russian immigrant wife who arrived here in May 2004 goes through the NM courts tomorrow. Her CONDITIONAL AOS status was granted in June of 2005, thus she still has a year before PERMANENT AOS status.

I consulted with an immigration attorney prior to the divorce, who told me that with her leaving the marriage PRIOR to the Permanent AOS the USCIS would be "all over her with a fine-toothed comb" and "even if they wouldn't deport her back to Russia, they would check her out VERY carefully, possibly for years" before granting Permanent AOS.

Mind you, there was no "domestic violence" in our situation although she did try to fabricate some events that only succeeded in one "Domestic Disturbance" call from the Police... so there is not the same issues that had gone on in Laila's situation, thankfully.

But frankly it really sucks to have gone through all this and to wind up in Divorce court. Yes, I'm the one who filed for the divorce because she doesn't have the money to do this. That cost me quite a bit as well, of course.

To top it off, under the Community Property/Support laws of our state, I have to give her $12,000 in "lump-sum" alimony. She only works a minimum-wage job as a manicurist, and she has to buy a car out of that money (both cars were mine under community property laws as these were my property prior to the marriage).

So she gets $12,000 from me for two years of being married to me, and has to try and survive in America on this.

Before the divorce, I had even asked her if she wanted to stay, we could "work" on the marriage for the next year, even go to counseling for couples, or whatever, until her PERMANENT AOS, but she decided not to do this.

The situation... well frankly it SUCKS. I didn't marry her to see her walk off after only two years of marriage. Yes there were problems which I'll detail if others are interested in this, but I thought at least I'd share what the immigration attorney had said. This attorney was a Staff Attorney for the INS for 20 years before he decided to start his own private practice, by the way, so I think he knows what he's talking about.

My (soon-to-be-)ex-wife thinks she can just hire this attorney and all will be well. He told me that she will likely spend YEARS tied up with the INS trying to prove the "bona fide" nature of the marriage, although it would be likely that they wouldn't deport her, they'd make her Permanent AOS damn hard to get.

I asked her if she wanted to return to Russia with the $12,000, that kind of money in Russia would last her and her family (still back in Russia) a lot longer than it would last her in the US, but she has no interest in returning...

So you have to wonder if maybe her initial INTENTIONS weren't fraudulent, her actions certainly make things LOOK rather suspicious, but frankly, this is HER problem to deal with between her and the USCIS.

I'll share more details on this situation if people are interested at all.

I was here as a very active member in 2004, pretty much left after we got married. I'm sad to report this very unhappy ending to what I thought was a "dream come true"... it turned out to be a nightmare...

-- Dan

I'd not like to question the credibility of the attorney that also worked for the USCIS, but unless she is lacking bona fides (as in joint tax returns, joint bank acct info etc) I find it difficult to believe that he would think she wouldn't prevail. There must be more that you divulged with him that would cause him to think that way. Many I-751 waivers, with substantial corroborating bona fides are often approved within months and without an interview.

So sorry that things have turned out this way for you... thanks for sharing your story. There have been other posts about potential warning signs... and with hindsight being 20//20, are there any red flags you might want to share with others who might be doubtful about their relationships???

Jen

Mermaid said:




He didn't say she wouldn't "prevail"... he said it was likely they would NOT deport her, but he did say they would likely tie her up for some time, because they would ~suspect~ fraudulent intent.

I am giving her some "evidence", copies of a joint utility bill, insurance bill, and community association billing, along with statements from a joint bank account, but his information to me was they would still "red flag" her most likely...

There really was very little that I divulged to him that would make any kind of difference. That was his opinion on the case, I paid for this opinion, and as I said, he had worked as a Staff Attorney for 20 years prior.

Of course he could be flat out wrong but...

Anyway, I am NOT going to give her joint tax returns, she's on her own with the paperwork I'm giving her. The stack of papers is waiting at my lawyer's office and she will be presented with these when the ink is dry from her signing the divorce decree... not before...

-- Dan



Jen, thanks for the thoughts... they are appreciated... I can't say there were "warning signs", I can see in 20/20 hindsight ways in which things went bad (not going to go into all the details of what happened to us just yet...)

I think for one thing, once she had a driver's license and access to a car (mine) she really became much more independent, very quickly... had less NEED for me, but that's pretty normal, really...

Now that's not something that you view as a warning sign (wanting to learn how to drive a car), but it certainly turned into part of her desire for independence... just got more and more independent from me in many ways..

-- Dan

here is a link that may intrest you..

http://www.uscis.gov/lpbin/lpext.dll/inser...pter-32-21-46-3


there are some RED FLAGs here..

There is nothing in your posts to suggest she will have any issues obtaining her 10 year GC.

She can apply as soon as the divorce is final.

Is there something significant you have left out?

I would be more worried about her enforcing the Affadavit of Support.

mmmm... good point....

Def something to address during the proceedings....

Jen

Why would you suspect and accuse her of fraud, yet "give" her the evidence she needs to prove the bona fides of your marriage?

As I said, I'm going on the basis of what an Immigration Attorney told me, and as I said, he worked as a Staff Attorney for the INS for 20 years prior.

He said the very fact she left the marriage prior to Permanent AOS (removal of conditions) means the INS will take a HUGE interest in her. I didn't say they wouldn't approve her, or deport her, and frankly that's between her and the CIS, and no longer my problem.

However, regarding the "Affidavit of Support". Again, this information comes straight from the Attorney.

~She~ cannot 'enforce' the Affidavit of Support. That can only be used by a gov't agency to try and collect from the USC any public assistance (welfare, food stamps, public housing) paid out on the immigrant's behalf. They would have to take you to court and they could use the "Affidavit of Support" to try and collect re-imbursement from you for the monies they paid out on the immigrant's behalf. But they would have to file a lawsuit against you in order to even try to do this.

As the immigant, she has no ability to take this document and enforce anything against you. He said he saw a divorce proceeding where the opposing lawyer tried to claim "you signed an agreement you would support her for 10 years", and told me point blank, that is NOT the meaning, nor purpose of that document, nor can it be used in such a way.

He also told me ~point blank~ that in his 20 years with the INS he had NEVER, I repeat NEVER, once seen this document used against a USC. Nor in his private practice. Never, not ONCE. And it could only be used as "evidence" in a lawsuit filed against the USC by the gov't agency that was providing "public assistance" for the immigrant.

So based on the information he gave me, I don't think that's an issue to be concerned about.

Because... for one thing, I did not accuse her of fraud, only that her actions certainly could lead one to be a bit suspicious of such...

Primarily because it's not my issue or concern to worry about. She is the one who has to file AOS and she is the one who will need to answer to the CIS if they see so fitting for her to do so.

She also married me and lived with me for two years. That much is fact. I can not prove her intentions, or what was or was not in her mind. One could argue it looks suspicious, but one could also argue the marriage was incompatible.

I spoke about this with the "family law" attorney who processed my divorce. Attempting to get an annulment of the marriage on the grounds of "fraudulent intent" would have been likely impossible, time consuming and extremely expensive. Obtaining a divorce on the grounds of "incompatibility" was a lot cheaper, quicker and can NOT be contested in New Mexico, since this is a no-fault state.

It's also a community property state. There is $75,000 equity in the house, and she knows it. I agreed to give her $12,000 (which still sucks) and "documentation" from the time we were married and living together.

What now transpires between her and the CIS is between her and the CIS. I don't care if they kick her out of the country or not. I can stay bitter and angry and stick my nose into the matter, but then all I am doing is holding onto the negative feelings, instead of just simply letting go of it and moving on with my life.

She asked me for a statement of my belief that the marriage was "bona fide". I refused to do this. I did give her copies of bank statements, utility bills, etc, but she could just as easily obtain these if she wanted to.

The immigration attorney said the CIS could ask me to appear before them, when she files her AOS, but this is not a subpoena and I am not obligated to do so. They would take that into account as well. Again, that's up to the CIS examiner, not up to me.

As it is, since she does not understand immigration law, she will likely have to hire an immigration attorney to process her AOS for her, at a cost of $100-$125 an hour for his time. HER problem, not mine.

This lawyer could likely pull this evidence ~anyway~ if it was needed from the bank, since she WAS a joint holder of the account. That is a permanent part of the bank's records. So why should I withhold it from her? As I said, her issue is now with the CIS. I'm done having issues with her, myself. That's why we're divorced.

My interest is in moving on with my life. I have nothing to gain by making her life difficult, she made my life difficult for the last year and a half, and frankly, it's time to let go and spend my time trying to heal, not seething with anger over what may or may not have been her intent.

This thread is labelled appropriately. I can't ~prove~ her intent in marrying me was fraudulent, nor do I care to even try. Perhaps it was a legitimate divorce for reasons of incompatibility. Perhaps she had this in mind all along. Either way, it's not something I plan on holding onto for the rest of my life, because I have no desire to prove what was in her mind one way or the other.

I don't need to prove it's HER fault... I did my best under the circumstances, and I can hold my head up with a clear conscience and know that I tried to do the right thing. What she does with her conscience and the CIS is her concern, not mine.

-- Dan

You should start doubting the things he tells you:

http://www.povertylaw.org/poverty-law-libr...ase/54000/54046

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

First of all: unlike one case, she is employable, and has been working at a job above the "poverty level" for almost the duration of the marriage. Second of all, on the Burns vs. Burns case in Oklahoma it says "no payment from plaintiff... was required because the support alimony aware in the divorce action was in excess of 125 percent of the poverty line.

Secondly, to the Wheeler link on ILW.Com it says: In lieu of seeking maintenance (spousal support or alimony) in the state court action, the alien spouse sued the sponsor in federal court asking for money owed under the terms of the affidavit of support.

Again she is getting a lump sum support/alimony award.

Also from the Wheeler link on ILW.com it says: At the same time, it is important to provide a realistic assessment of the probability of actions to enforce the affidavit of support. The author is not aware of any successful actions to obtain reimbursement for means-tested benefit programs obtained by the alien, largely due to the following: (1) sponsored aliens are barred from receiving these benefits for a five-year period in most jurisdictions; (2) after this five-year period, the income of the sponsor is deemed to the alien in determining financial eligibility; and (3) most states have not implemented a system for seeking such reimbursement in cases where the alien does access benefits. Over the course of the last nine years, only a handful of actions have been brought against sponsors by the sponsored alien, and all have been by disgruntled spouses.

Also from the Mehta link on ILW.com it says: It is noted that the state court in Florida that had ordered the dissolution of the marriage did not award alimony or support to either party.

I did forward those links to the Immigration attorney. It's important to understand that the Wheeler link states he is unaware of ~any~ successful actions to obtain reimbursement for means-tested benefit programs. Which is what my lawyer told me. He has never seen it.

And as to the "handful of actions brought against sponsors ... by disgruntled spouses", well I'm addressing this issue as well with my family-law (Divorce) attorney. We have not given her the paperwork ~yet~ regarding the bona fide nature of the marriage. Also I want my family law attorney to see that article as well, including the various defenses.

In the meantime, if she did wind up as "disgruntled EX-spouse" bringing an action against me, she would have to be BELOW the poverty level for any enforcement to occur. I sincerely doubt she could live without an income below the poverty level while this lawsuit was pending. The very fact it would take time to bring this lawsuit would almost require her to go out and get a job, work, support herself which would then take her ABOVE the poverty level. Sort of a catch-22 for her, isn't it?

Nevertheless, I appreciate being given this info. I would assume that my immigration attorney as he said, has never SEEN such usage of this. Law is a fluid and ever-changing world, of course, and if nothing else, I wanted him to be aware of those cases. As he said, he has never SEEN such, and even your article indicated only a handful of actions have been brought and all by disgruntled spouses.

Thanks again for sharing it though.

-- Dan

Ohh dear, this guy is either stupid or a bullshitter.

Stump v. Stump, 2005 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 26002 (October 25, 2005)

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

If I know about it and many others who are all amateurs, why does not he?

With regards to her adjusting, I have seen many many posts from those in similar positions, the issues they have had seem no more that you would expect from those not divorced.

I think somebody else mentioned that they had seen at least one approved without even an interview.

But this is not your problem, its hers.

I just discussed the Wheeler article in depth. (See previous postings) Perhaps he simply had never SEEN it, as I indicated. Nevertheless I sent him the link for his review. And perhaps he doesn't know about it, because it never has occurred in his practice, as he indicated, and as that article mentioned a HANDFUL of cases in the last nine years. In both cases mentioned the ex-spouses did NOT receive alimony/support in the divorce, which is NOT the case in mine.

Regarding this case, this is no different from a Doctor who has never seen a particulary rare disease. It doesn't make him stupid, nor a bullshit artist. Only that he's never seen it.

And you're right, regarding AOS, it's her problem, not mine. And I really don't give a rat's ### what her problems are anymore, I'm not interested in her problems, I have enough problems of my own, and now she is no longer one of them anymore...

-- Dan

I wasn't commenting on your particular situation. I think the lump sum arrangement will protect you. I was very much concerned with this part of the post leading others to believe that there is nothing to be concerned about. This part of the post is absolutely incorrect.

John_and_Marlene:

I've sent that article over to him. We can only go on the information we are given. I'm awaiting his reply. I appreciate it, and I appreciate knowing more information on this as well. If he responds to me, I'll share it with the group.

-- Dan

...........................

Dan,

I think you're adopting a healthy attitude towards your future. One can't, in a situation like this, focus on what may or may not have been the case. I'd just caution you to consider that the $12,000 lump sum payment may not be considered alimony or support, but rather her portion of the equity in the marital estate. You settled the matter, correct? What I mean by that is that the divorce was not contested or tried, isn't that correct? Technically, I suppose it is conceivable that there might come some time when she could consider taking further action, as in the Pennsy Stump case, although that's not a certainty and it is precedential and many do not know of it (especially if she's not savvy in immigration circles anyway). I'd certainly not count on anyone staying employed as a preclusion from a second action, though let's hope her pride means more to her than potential financial gain.

I know that it must be an emotional time right now for you. Better that you be wary, but fix your eyes strictly on your future and healing from this episode. Good luck

From my recollection she does have a duty to mitigate, I guess it was the minimum wage job mention that worried me.

As far as the case is concerned in my profession I can not rely upon just those issues that just have happened to my clients, I have to have a much broader knowledge. There is amongst other thing a requiremnt for continuing professional education.

I thought this case was well known in legal immigration circles.

But the chances are that it will not effect you, but always helps to know what could come back and bite you. Forewarned is forearmed.

However it is true with what was brought up on both sides of the fence.

Imcompatibility, or maybe she had this in mind all along, who knows, which he's right,.....the only person that will ever be able to tell that,....is her. Because we cant litterly jump inside her mind/body and feel what she feels/knows.

But by far, this is the most positive attitude i've ever seen on VJ going through this situation, a good example to follow.

There are very few people like the man with an attitude like this, cos usually, its only bitterness and hate.

The diadromous one wrote:



The divorce was not contested nor tried. This is a NO-FAULT state. She quickly realized all we'd do by fighting over things is make the lawyer's rich. The Marital Settlement Agreement clearly spells out that the "Respondent (her) is awarded lump-sum non-modifiable spousal support in the amount of $12,000".

I was told by the Divorce lawyer this means she can NOT re-open the issue of support at a later time. So technically she can not try to bring up the issue of "Affidavit of Support/I-864" as a means of using it to try to get additional support from me. Because she's agreed to a NON-MODIFIABLE lump-sum support settlement. Hopefully THAT language should be a preclusion from a second action, based on the I-864 document or anything else that might occur to her...

I also will note that as alimony/lump sum support this comes directly off my taxable income... and she'll have to pay taxes on it.

Yes, it is a very emotional time for me. There are a lot of other circumstances that I haven't discussed yet, regarding how this all came apart for us.

I appreciate your thoughts and comments, Diadromous one...

-- Dan




Boiler:

Well he has this knowledge NOW, I sent him the link. And yes, knowing what COULD come back and bite me, I sent it to my Divorce attorney as well, to see if she can protect my ### as well as my assets from any further actions from her.

Thanks again.

-- Dan

Aussielad:

Just thank you for your kind words. I just don't believe in spending my time and energy on negativity. It will only keep me enchained to the relationship, and now is the time to cut my losses, and move forward with my life.

I'm doing my best, my friends are helping me, and I know she's going to have it much much tougher dealing with her circumstances than I ever will...

-- Dan

(J) Transsexuals. Whether to give legal effect to a sex change is a legislative question. While some states have enacted laws that permit a person who has undergone sex change surgery to legally change the person's sex from one to the other, Congress has not addressed the issue. Defining marriage under immigration law is a question of Federal law, not state law. Adams v. Howerton, 673 F.2d 1036 (9th Cir. 1981). Consequently, without legislation from Congress USCIS has no legal basis on which to recognize a change of sex so that a marriage between two persons born of the same sex can be recognized. See Defense of Marriage Act, Pub. L. No. 104-199, 110 Stat. 2419 (1996).

PurrSuede,

I think your divorce lawyer needs to consult with an immigration lawyer, and with a contracts lawyer.

I-864 is a contract between the sponsor and the US government. It is not affected by the issues settled in a divorce action. The divorce settlement does not preclude an action based on the I-864 obligation.

Do a Google search of the Usenet newsgroup <alt.visa.us.marriage-based> for posts on the subject by folinskyinla.

Yodrak

Dan,

You do have a very positive outlook even amidst this terrible time. Good luck.


john_and_marlene,

Thanks for the links.

This part is interesting:
Advisals on the I-864

The second paragraph of the instructions to Form I-864 advises the sponsor that by executing the form he or she is agreeing "to support the intending immigrant and any spouse and/or children immigrating with him or her" until the contract terminates. "Divorce does not terminate the obligation."[12] Part 7 of the form states: "The sponsor must provide the sponsored immigrant(s) whatever support is necessary to maintain them at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal poverty income guidelines."[13] When sponsors sign the I-864, they are agreeing to provide the sponsored immigrant with that level of support until the contract terminates, acknowledging their understanding of when the contract terminates, admitting that the sponsored immigrant may sue to enforce the contract, and conceding to the personal jurisdiction of any court in the United States to enforce the contract.[14] The language on the Form I-864 carries the same weight as published regulations.


Does that also apply to co-sponsors? Can the immigrant sue the co-sponsor in order to get whatever support is necessary?

If so, this document has become a lot scarier than I imagined. I must admit that I didn't read the Affidavit of Support as carefully as I should have. I would have a hard time willing to become a co-sponsor. Yes, I sponsored my husband; however, I couldn't fathom co-sponsoring in any other circumstance, especially since I don't trust many people.

I'm surprised that there aren't more cases of the immigrant suing the sponsor in order to get support. Is that because the immigrant is unaware of it? Or are there moral reasons? I would hope so, but then it is a contract and perhaps there is nothing morally wrong with, in some people's reasoning, enforcing this contract.

Good reading. The more I learn about immigration, the more I want to become an immigration lawyer. Too bad I may have missed my calling.

Certainly the immigrant can sue a cosponsor and they may or may not be successful. I would expect it is more likely that they would be required to reimburse the government in the event the immigrant used some means-tested government benefits at some time.

I have long felt that people take cosponsorship too lightly. It is a major obligation which could potentially last for the rest of their life. I wonder how many cosponsors actually expect to provide some level of support. I would never sign one for anyone other than my spouse.

Divorce court and Immigration court are two very different things.

Looks like at least 2 people have made my comment. Federal law is not over ruled by State law.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386869 - a thread about the issues adjusting to 10 year GC status, co-incidentally, the OP is divorced.

Yodrak:

As I mentioned and the Wheeler brief on ILW indicated that it is unheard of for any gov't agency to try to use the I-864 to get reimbursement for means-tested benefits (welfare, food stamps etc.)

That is what my immigration lawyer told me.

However, other people brought up the fact that there have been a handful of actions (again mentioned in the Wheeler brief on ILW) where disgruntled ex-spouses have sued for support under the I-864.

My worry, after reading the info presented here, was that the I-864 could be used to ask for additional support.

I'm not worried about the gov't agency side of things, I was worried about her using this to try and demand additional support. My family law attorney feels that the "NON-modifiable" clause regarding support in the Divorce decree protects me from any second actions she might feel she was entitled to.

The US Government can basically do whatever it wants to anyway, so I don't feel I can get protection in that event. Even the Wheeler brief on ILW.com says he has never heard of this being used.

To quote Atty Wheeler on the GOVERNMENT issue
from: http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm



and he further goes on to say, regarding the SUPPORT issue (by the immigrant ex-spouse)



I believe the issue brought up in the Pennsylvania case was a support issue FROM the ex-spouse.

My interest is in making sure my ex-spouse does not attempt to use the I-864 for additional support. That is where my family-law attorney felt the "non-modifiable" clause in the divorce decree would protect me. That does preclude HER from bringing an action for support using the I-864, as was done in the Pennsylvania case cited as well.

-- Dan

PurrSuede,

First, I want to say that I am very sorry for your situation.

I hope that none is going to deport the immigrating ex-spouse in case of divorce. The reasoning is as follows: there are so many illegal immigrants here, why should the US Government deport HER?

On the other hand, I would think that the Government would have more reasons to "hate" someone and to deport him/her if that person uses Federal assistance (or makes something elso from the NO list). If she receives Federal assistance and then she or the Government starts a law suit agains you as a sponsor, it's still uncertain if you will pay and when it happens. I would think it's risky for her.

My opinion is that she may want to get as much as possible as a settlement, but enforcing that Affidavit of Support does not look good. If she would have to adjust without you, I assume it would be easier when she works (making 100+ percent of the poverty line) and does not break any law. I don't see any reason for the US not to make such a "positive" person a permanent resident. If I were her, I would try to be strictly "positive". At the time of the interview I would say that "well, marriages do not last sometimes, but we did love each other, and here are the evidences that we were going to live together for a long time; but since it did not work out for us, I am doing my best to become a good citizen of the US."

She may have another opinion, though

Timelena:

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm having a tough time of it today so I appreciate it. To top it off, I'm paying her another $4,000 today, mostly because I want to get it over with. But I'm stressed over even having to deal with her today. I'm stressed about having to PAY her, just because she wanted out, but such are the divorce laws and I have to abide by them...

So as I said, I appreciate your thoughts... I just want to put this all behind me, it's like a horrendously bad dream... <sighs>

-- Dan

This is a very sad story. Dealing with USCIS is one thing but to have all you all have worked for in shambles is very hard to understand. I am sorry you had to deal with that. Hopefully this time you will be aware of what happened and take it as a lesson. As the saying goes "You learn from your mistakes". Cheer up at least you did not have children yet. I hope you start a good life now.
Much luck to you

Amen to not having children yet. My lawyer said "if you are even thinking of reconciling with her, remember she can still file for divorce even if she's pregnant, only you'll be into her for over a $1000 a month in child support, so keep it in your pants".

I paid $200 an hour for this advice.

But having children and a family is WHY I got married to begin with.

The mistake I made was in BELIEVING her when she said this is what she wanted too? I don't think so

The thing was, I think her intent was come to America and get married and IF things go well (for her) then have the children and family. I don't believe she was fully committed to the marriage.

That's an awful fine line between "bona fide" marriage and having your "escape plan" in your back pocket all the time.

I put out some bank statements and utility statements in front of my lawyer, the "bona fides" documentation she might need for her individual filing.

I told my lawyer that when the divorce was final (as it is now) and she complied with every term of the settlement (as she has now) THEN and only then, she can have this documentation.

I can't put myself in her mind, but I did do some digging and found out a lot of things that could have maybe changed my mind before hand. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful, however, I can't know for CERTAIN what was going on in her mind, only that she bailed out pretty damn easily, imho...

And anyway, when you're in love, it's pretty hard to see the "red flags"... that's all part and parcel of being in love, believing in the best of your spouse/partner.

-- Dan

HI! Do you guys have a Prenuptional Agreement?..
If you dont the divorce might be a little bit tougher as as far as i understood you are residing in New-Mexico and this is a Community Property State so everything gonna be divided between both of you as 50/50.
I dont wanna scare you i am sorry ., but you do need to talk to your lawyer about this issue as well.
The girl is not gonna be deported as i agree with Timelena sometimes marriages are not working out ., but seems that the girl have entered the marriage in good faith .
Best wishes.
Sincerely.

HI Dan,
I havent read your posts very carefully but after i have read it i am very soory for what happened to you.
You must be a very good guy ., but sometimes people dont notice a red flags when they are inlove.
the truly loves shows by the persons acts not by the persons words.
I hope you will find your true love someday and my Best wishes.
But still if you have the Prenuptional agreement that would be a very important factor in your divorce process.
Talk to your lawyer about it.
Best wishes.
Sincerely.

Thanks for the good thoughts, Sweetgirl... I'm getting through it.

The divorce is final. I actually got money back from my retainer.

My ex-wife realized she had no money to fight me with lawyers and after only two years of marriage frankly there were no assets to really get, other than some of the equity in the house.

She wanted a car, but both my cars were purchased prior to the marriage, in a community property state, there was NO DOUBT they were mine. "Sole and Separate" it's called.

She was quite surprised that the divorce laws in my state meant that I owed her nothing other than a 50/50 split of assets acquired during the marriage. And that was after the community debt was subtracted from the community assets.

The funny thing was when we bought the house, she had NO credit rating, barely had a social security card, having just arrived from Russia. So she had to sign a "sole and separate" agreement saying the house was mine in entirety, and not community property, because they couldn't issue a mortgage in her name, she couldn't be a party to actually buying the house, legally.

But me, being the thoughtful person I am, turned around and signed it back to "us" as Joint Tenants, man and wife together, just in case anything happened to me so she could inherit the house without going through probate. So I basically signed her back into community property. How could I have known...?? That little signature cost me $12,000 in equity...

That was the only reason I owed her ~anything~, was because I deeded the "sole and separate" house back to ourselves as community property. Silly me, huh?

I encourage ALL of you to check out the divorce laws in your state PRIOR to getting married. No one goes into marriage thinking of getting divorced, but you just don't know what can happen.

-- Dan

Really sorry to hear this! It is something that all of us think of in the back of our minds..."Can I really trust this person..." it takes many months before we begin to know for sure.

Didn you ever suspect that she really didnt love you? Were there any warning signs that her love was not sincere?

Rob

I disagree with this. During the process of falling in love, it really isn't typical to question whether you can trust this person or not unless you have come from a previous relationship full of deception. Why in the world would anyone marry someone that they have to question the sincerity of that persons dedication? If one has to do this, then they are looking in the wrong place. Let's all chime in and say "IMBRA".
The OP was in love, and felt it was mutual. He is not accusing his ex-wife of being fraudulant. Sh*t happens in marriages, and he seems to be very aware of this.
I applaud the OP for his strengths through this, and wish him the best.
Bethanie

The divorce has already been granted. I can assure you that the courts of NM based their determination of the final property settlement IAW with the community property statues of NM, and by mutual agreement of the parties.

Community property are only those assets that have been accumulated since the marriage, and that she is not entitled to half of everything. She is only entitled to her share of the community property and that determination has been made. The court retains jurisdiction on this matter amd will not re-open the case and cannot be modified....its a done deal.

Dan...

Im sure that you know that its best to follow the advice of your lawyer, and he is more knowledgable than some of the replies that you have received from us amatuers, and I would certainly trust his judgement and experience on these kinds of matters.

Good luck to you in the future.

I did feel it was mutual once upon a time. It is always much easier to see "possible" red flags after the fact, however 20/20 hindsight makes geniuses of all of us.

I feel there is nothing to gain from accusing her of being fraudulent. That issue is between her, her God and conscience and the USCIS.

However I do feel (in 20/20 hindsight) that perhaps she said "well let's get married and see what happens" and had a Plan-B in her back pocket to begin with. I can't claim that's fraud. Maybe she decided marriage wasn't for her. I have my share of faults, but she never really seemed to participate in the marriage much, but there are a LOT of other issues I haven't gone into here. Does that make her a fraud?

Again, that's between her, and she's the one who needs to convince the USCIS that she wasn't.

I'm more interested in my next relationship than re-living all the traumas of my last one.

Thanks Bethanie.

-- Dan

That is correct. ONLY those assets accumulated SINCE the marriage. MINUS the debt that had also been accumulated since the marriage. I paid for the wedding and honeymoon, I paid for the down payment on the house, I paid for the appliances in the house, I paid for a lot of other things. I put them on low interest credit cards and kept my debt ratio high for a reason. I did not tap out my savings from BEFORE the marriage to pay for these things. Wonder why?? <smile>

If you take the equity in the house, bought shortly after we were married, and subtract the accumulated debt from the marriage, then divide by two (50/50 split) that's what she is getting. And my lawyer structured this as "one time, lump sum non-modifiable support" which means it gets taken off my income and SHE pays the taxes on it. <smile again>

I also bought a 2nd car BEFORE she got here. I knew she'd be driving, but the 2nd car was ~mine~ before the marriage. "sole and separate" and she thought "I have rights to this car!" at the divorce. Not according to the laws of the state of NM she didn't... <another smile>

Actually she had signed a "sole and separate" agreement on the house when we bought it, since she had no credit, just having gotten here, and I had signed it back to joint tenancy in case anything happened to me.

Without that signature there would have been NOTHING to split, but my lawyer said it was likely they would have wanted some measure of support anyway, since she was making minimum wage, basically.

I have no doubt the house will appreciate by at least as much as I'm giving her over the next year or two... which of course, she won't get to share in... <some more smiles>



She (my lawyer) was very helpful. Except at one point I think she did feel sorry for "poor Russian girl".

My ex- is very good at pulling this routine however, so I'm not surprised, really.

Well it's over and done with. But I suggest to ANYONE to look into the divorce laws in your state prior to doing this...

Thanks for your good wishes and thoughts, desertfox

-- Dan

Dan,
I see lot of people pity you here, im sure you are a nice guy. but you seriously need to get out of this. shake it off and move on. may be you're not realising these posts are taking you on rounds and kepping you stuck on this. looking at your last post it seems like you have planned for a divorce more in advance than ur spouse, well im just giving you my honest openion, how it looks like when ur looking at it from out side. by any means im not saying you did.
and also you very correctly mentioned in one of the previous posts that there are three sides, her side, his side and the truth very true. have you looked at it closely or impartially and tried to figure out whats in the middle?
also i saw you were accusing your ex-spouse for having a plan B. well it was not plan A right? it was clearly plan B, which i think she should have and unfortunaetly there are many of us who never had a plan B and never thought what would we do if end up getting dumped after quting jobs, selling houses and leaving relatives and going through all the odeal of establishing a new life.
last but not least my friend i think you need to get some help from a therapist. im not saying it in an offensive way. please dont misunderstand me here. quite frankly im going through therapy, because im all f**ked up after getting dumped and not given any reason for it and it looked like planned and executed. (may be the same way that you feel) i was loosing sleep, geting up 3 in the morning all angry the list goes on...... im not saying ur f**ked up like me maybe your dealing with it well.
when i posted my story here, some guy posted "Now you know how american women are" i see some same kinda stuff getting posted in your threds in much more indirect way. but if u ride this wave ur not doing your self any good. now youre divorced let it be a thing in the past and move on. hang out with off-line friends and give up talking about all this, if (which i believe so) ur divorce is final.
all righty what ever it is all the best to you and youre ex-spouse in the rest of the journey of life.

HI!
God thats a beautiful picture under the American flag ,how did you guys manage to put it under the flag and it looks so romantic.
Sincerely.

That is for Tim and Bethany question.

Actually, no, posting and discussing this situation IS a huge part of moving past it. Because it is allowing me to express my feelings and work them out. I did NOT plan for divorce in advance, but I did protect myself before moving into the marriage. In my mind there's a HUGE difference. And I am encouraging people to think about the What-If's because it ~could~ happen, and that's why I'm not afraid to share my story.

I'm not wearing this as a badge of shame, nor of honor, it's just something that HAPPENED.

I certainly have looked at this impartially, and I've shared a lot of my feelings with my friends about it, and my friends have been very supportive, as well.

As far as "moving on", I don't sit here and go into all the people I'm meeting now, but if you check out the IMBRA topic, you'll see I'm getting prepared in case I need to file a waiver or do a K-3 next time. Nor do I go into all the wonderful new people I'm talking with, both in the USA and outside of it. I've never viewed VJ as a personal dating site, nor a place to discuss my new relationships that are forming, either.

Mind you, I've been involved in Russian culture and language and people since 2002. Just because my marriage went out the window, doesn't mean my experiences did either. And I have a LOT of Russian friends, my ex-wife wasn't the only Russian national in my life, just the most important one.. while we were married that is.

Also there is nothing wrong with being angry, but holding onto the anger, and letting it turn into bitterness and obsessiveness, that is dangerous indeed, and I feel I know the dividing line between the two.

There's also something called "impulse control". Decent people have this, mad-stalkers do not.

I've been writing out the story of my relationship to a friend whom I trust, and saving the emails.

It helps me to voice and iterate the things I went through, and while I talk about the ENDING for the benefit of the people here on VJ, I do -not- discuss all the intimate details of what happened, why it happened, what went wrong, what I would have done differently of a PERSONAL nature in my relationship...

That info is NOT for public consumption, it is mine, it is private and deeply personal.

That being said, I feel the -resolution- itself, regarding the USCIS, the immigration lawyer, what I had to do in terms of FAMILY LAW (aka Divorce) in my state, IS worthy of public consumption.

I can respect that you think a "therapist" might help, but you don't know me personally, and for all you know I just might work for a large healthcare facility and have several friends in the "behavioral health" group as well. Perhaps

Frankly my interest is in someone new. And by clearly and cleanly resolving the past, there will be room for this person in my heart and in my head, since there's already room in my life.

Sure, I made mistakes, I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be, but I do feel that my ex-wife checked out of this relationship a long time ago, shortly after we were married, again for reasons that I haven't chosen to share publicly here.

And in fact, this was almost two years ago this transpired, so I think I can discuss this with rationality. Certainly divorce takes time to "settle", but you don't know all the things I've gone through the last two years...

And that includes a life-threatening trauma and serious illness and a major surgical operation that I was forced to recover and rehabilitate from. Compared to that, this is a walk in the park.

So I hope that you will never need to know the inner personal strength it takes to recover from staring death in the face, truly. I'm going to assume that you have no idea what this is like to experience, and I sincerely hope that you never will for a very very long long time.

Wishing you health and happiness...

-- Dan

Dan,
Hear hear!

Awesome. People here don't need to know all your nitty gritty (even if they "want" to). The immigration and family law information IS important and relevant.

Thank you for sharing what you have---very eye opening!