Old Immigrant's Nightmare thread started mid 2005

Thought I would resurrect this one too. One of Craig's biggest questions/concerns(within himself) when he moved here was: I did all this so I could be HAPPY and I'm feeling all of these other things? Is that NORMAL?? Turns out it WAS normal and many people were feeling things other than elation at finally reaching their goal of getting to America to be with their loved ones. Sure, some weren't having any problems, and Craig was having it more difficult than others, but I think this thread helped others to see the varying issues that the immigrant(and the USC due to that fact) can go through. I like to update this on occassion(or vent! ) so thought I would bring it back. Hope no one minds. Michelle

Oh......we HAVE to have this thread...... I was going to bring it across but thought it best to leave it you to choose....

I'm so glad that you did bring it over Michelle. I agree, so will relate to it, some won't, but it gives a lot of insight into the emotional turmoil that can happen as a result of this whole crazy process.

Yes this is a good one for people to post not JUST their problems but also their SOLUTIONS for coping with so much change.
I think a lot of us go into this process thinking that after arrival (or after AOS) the story ends with 'and they lived happily ever after..'
Most of us don't / didn't realise how much of the little things would grate on nerves, how the fact that we are all basically 'starting again from scratch' would / will impact a person's self-esteem and feelings of self-worth.
I think we underestimate these things at our peril.
Maybe it won't happen the same for us, maybe some of us iwll slip into the life as easily as a hot knife into butter, but forewarned is forearmed as they say and thats a good thing in my book

Thanks guys...I thought so too. I'm sure there are those who might have thought let it die,etc. but I still like to write on here so ah well. I have a new dilemma today. Daryl, Craig's 'stepson' if you will from England...of COURSE Craig has to phone him and talk to him whatever way he can..no dispute THERE at all..and I DO feel so sorry for both of them...Daryl for Craig being here and vice versa. Here's the problem I don't know how to deal with...whenever Craig comes off the phone from speaking to Daryl it always makes him really sad(understandably) sometimes it's just sad for a while and sometimes it affects his whole day(in other words probably makes him think about other things as well,etc and makes him miss Daryl a lot more..which I DO understand...) but now Daryl just finally got the Internet hooked up..which I thought..great! theycan talk more..but this is the first convo Craig is on now talking to him and he said a couple times now "this is making me really sad" Ok..I GET that..that it would..if you know what I mean..but now I'm thinking...he'll be able to talk to him every day or whatever...thought that would be nice, but the more I think about it.he's going to be down more and more of the time it seems. I don't know how to deal with it all because he's justified in how he feels...but I want him to be happy(at least MOST of the time, ya know??) *sigh* I dunno. M.

Now already CRaig has said I don't know if I can do this forever,etc(being here away from himetc) and Daryl just spoke to me..he's making crying faces and saying I want my dad(he's 15 btw) and saying..that's what I'm doing right now..and things..made me feel really bad; craig too. I know daryl is really upset too. There is NO solution to this. It's going to make me loopy; with messenger it's going to be brought tothe forefront every day. I'm not trying to be selfish, but we were meant to be happy at least some of the time when we got together. I'm gonna go have a long bath. M.

I rarely post in threads that are devoted to emotional issues, but reading this I feel I just must comment. Michelle, you've got this one backwards. The daily contact will ease the pain of separation, you and he just have to give it more time. And in point of fact, the longing that evokes sadness between your husband and his son will subside with increased and daily messenger contact. If you are having a hard time understanding this, just reflect on what has occurred between you and Craig since he arrived. While you were apart, I'm sure just as with everyone, a lot of your conversations were oriented around discussing how much you longed for each other and how it was hard being apart. Yet, once here, since you know that you'll see each other in a matter of hours, do your morning farewells follow the same course? No. There's a natural ease that settles in, and as artificial as messenger can be as opposed to being there in person, the same type of situation can develop. Please have hope.

I would like to DM but I fear I am correct in this situation. Only time will tell, and I *DO* hope you're right. However, it's been over a year now and a lot of those issues you mentioned have not resolved. Even Craig himself said this is going to bring it to the forefront a lot more,etc. I would like to have hope, and I will try, but the outlook is pretty bleak at the moment. This is one of the issues that has remained unresolved *all* the time throught Craig's being here the last year and now to have him on messenger every day saying that he misses him and doing crying smileys,etc every day(which I'm not !! faulting him for, just saying) isn't going to help Craig feel any better. Nor did the phone convos before that..they almost always ended with Craig being upset by Daryl saying how much he misses him, etc etc etc. We'll see. M.

also..to respond to when WE were apart..even daily(LOADSSSSSSS daily) of contact didn't ease our longing to be together. at all. We just wanted to BE there with each other. Daryl feels the same way toward Craig and vice versa. Also, I'm not trying to be negative..trying to start to look at things as they are. I love Craig will all my heart, but I'm beginning to really wonder if that's enough for this.

I am thinking this will be a good thing. Now that they can talk to each other every day. Do you guys have a cam so that Craigs son can see him. Maybe the son should get one to so he can see his dad. It will be hard at first, but I think as times goes by, it will help them both. I know when Roger and I were apart, I looked forward to talking to him online, and us seeing each other on our cams. So just see how it plays out. I really do think it is going to make it easier on them both.

If it's any consolation, I have no doubt that Darryl being 15 and a young man will soon have a different focus and interests elsewhere. It's called testosterone. Please, just give it time.

If your husband wants to sit there and depress himself with sad messanger faces then he's probably going to do it no matter how much effort you put into convincing him otherwise.

Try giving the appearance of ignoring it (well, you know what i mean - in a nice way) and go have some fun, either in the house or with your son or out of the house with others. If you give him a good alternative to sitting there and being locked in his own upset frame of mind then maybe he'll see that life is actually more fun when you enjoy what you have.

Go have a good time at the movies, invite some buddies over for a games party (taboo! boggle! monopoly! poker!) have your girlfriends over for a pot luck. Your husband can sit there with the computer for company if he wants to, but at least you will be having a nice time and hopefully by seeing you having a nice time (and a nice time that he can join in too if he wants to) he'll see that moping around isn't a terribly fun way to exist.

I had a tendency to be depressed and shun company for a little while...my husband put up with it for a little bit and then just directly told me that having my own private pity party wasn't helping anyone, least of all me, and that I should figure out other ways to spend my time. Sure, baby steps were involved, but with his support and my own realisation that having fun is much nicer than feeling sorry for myself, i'm much much better. I have a great job, I meet cool people all the time, and I focus on what is a head rather than what i left behind.

If, however, you are finding that your husband can't break out of this cycle of behavior then it seems to me he probably needs some form of councelling/marriage assistance (either with a shrink/doctor). Either way you shouldn't really be expected to put up with this on a daily basis, it isn't healthy for anyone involved.

Sorry if any of that sounds harsh, it's not meant to, merely trying to suggest ways to help, because the status quo does seem to be working for you.

I know..I DO know that wasn't meant to sound harsh Brit, but I think it kinda was...I cannot even IMAGINE being apart from Corey(albeit it's a different situation..my natural child and I was with him everyday of his life..nearly)(but Craig considers Daryl his son..together since he was one) ANYWAYYY..for all of you(trying to help me I realize..not taking offense at all) who think this will be good..all I can say is I know my husband, and also know how the interaction..just on the phone too ..has affected him in the last YEAR. Its not like it's just been going on for 2 months or something...now, with Daryl being able to TELL him he's upset and crying and missing him each and every DAY..no..I don't see that as an improvement. I also don't think Craig is feelign sorry for himself ...I think he is caught ina situation which is no-win. He either misses me or he missed Daryl. I feel for him..but I don't know what to do, and it doesn't make for a very happy household. He says there have been times he can just ignore it,etc(and I know there are..he's been very happy a lot of the time around here lately)but that was with him ringing Daryl every few days. With this constant IM'ing and offlines even when Craig isn't on...I can't see that improving, only worsening. Thanks for your concern all anyway, I DO appreciate it. Michelle

Michelle, Darryl has just gained access to messenger. He's a 15 year old lad, and there will be biological changes that will occur which will naturally take care of this. Soon he will be so busy IMing his pals and girls and so on, then it'll be a whole different kettle of fish. Let's hope Craig won't be sad having to stand in line. Kids grow up and become independent. Gaining independence in this way is a good thing! Let Mother Nature take her course.

Agreed that at 15, it isn't going to be too long when the sad smilies will be a thing of the past for him. BritBird - a fantactic post and agree wholeheartedly. I had a horrible time for the first year of living here (had given up an excellent career & family) and then it suddenly dawned on me that the only person who could make it better was me. If Craig is feeling this way after being here so long, if at all possible I really think he should seek help and guidance elsewhere. Or perhaps couples councelling would help? Is there a local school that could offer cheaper sessions for trainees if money is a problem? I think if he goes back for a visit feeling this way, he's gonna find it even harder to get back on the plane which will open up a whole 'nother can of worms.

here i am ...

craig started this thread and i think he needs to come back with an update about how HE feels. from what i can glean ... he is absolutely torn between the love he feels for you and the life he wants in england. of course, he can't have both and doesn't want to disappoint either.

there is usually a 12-18 month period of ups & downs during this cultural adjustment, but most people are able to get a handle on their depression much sooner. it's actually called cultural shock and he seems to be stagnant in passing through onto acceptance that this is his life. he needs counseling.

i do tend to agree with you, mich. that his contact with his son(step) often via the internet is going to only increase his sadness again. this is going to affect him, this is going to affect you and this is going to affect corey. i know how i was with my parents and we were close ... they were a part of my everyday life at 15 and they remain to be at 33 (my dad rang me this AM and woke me up, my mom walked over today with a parcel for us). craig IS his dad and they have a bond, you are so fortunate that you realize that, because a lot of women don't. you leaving corey (an inconceivable thought) is the very thing that craig has done with darryl, regardless of the fact that they didn't actually live together when he left england.

personally, i think craig needs to go back to england ... now hear me out. i think he has a LOT of unresolved feelings and emotions and it is next to impossible for him to deal with them here. he needs to do this for himself, for his sanity and for his happiness. you both (along with both your boys) deserve to be happy. it's apparent that he wants to be with you ... he just doesn't want to be here. a trip to england will give him a chance to reflect on what he has here at home with you. then again, maybe not ... maybe he's just not emotionally prepared or ready to move at this point in his life.

you have been an absolute pillar, mich and noone would dare say any different, but something has got to be done at this point. i can appreciate you sharing and helping others in who may be in a similar situation ... but your's has been going on for a very long time. unfortunately, you and craig alone can not make a positive resolution happen ... it's time to be proactive and make a change for the better through counseling or a visit to england.

i say this to you from my heart! i admire your strength and look up to you!! i know that i would not have lasted this long!

For me a visit home just compounded the problem and highlighted everything I hated about my situation in the US which made me reluctant to return. But I do agree about the space. We actually seperated for two weeks - he went to visit family and left me alone in the US. It worked a treat. Going back to the UK for space just reminded me about all the good things I had left behind.

If Craig is not feeling sorry for himself but eaten up with guilt and torn for this long PLEASE do something about it, Craig! My husband was like this for 32 years and it was like a life sentence for him. Life is just too short...

Thanks to everyone who responded. I do believe the majority of you are wrong in this(and not trying to be rude..I value your opinions) I think you hit it on the head Gimy..not because you agree with me but because I am in the situation and I know what it's been like. For both Craig AND myself. Right now we are in the middle of a huge row, have fought often enough, and I don't see it getting any better. Do you want to know why? Basically because the fact that Craig will be speaking to Daryl every day and that's going to bring him down and "(there's nothing he can do about that") isn't just the only issue, but the most recent issue. Alan should have a field day with this: he just does NOT want to be here. It's glaringly obvious. He doesn't just miss home, he misses everything! about home..not only will he refuse to see things that other people have posted in Immigrant's Nightmare thus far...like..Americans love a British accent(true)he chooses to see it as 'always being the foreigner, and sticking out' . Nothing can ever be optimistic. I'm just as worn down by it as he is. I love him very much but I myself cannot continue to live this way. Personally< I see him going back to England for a two week visit and not wanting to come back. If he does want to come back, I can see it being the same way that it was after a couple of days. I'm sorry ya'all I'm just losing mylast spec of hope very VERY rapidly. M.

I think in this case Michelle and Craig need to look at all of the dynamics. One which is incontrovertible is that Darryl is approaching an age when he will become independent (if it is not already occurring, behind the scenes). To make any decisions based upon something which will without a doubt change in the not too distant future, would be foolhardy. It's not uncommon for parents to want to "bonsai" their children, keeping them forever young in their minds and hearts. But we are speaking of a youth here, who, if he's like any other kid of his age, will soon be wanting less parental attention than more. It's easy to sit from afar and judge, I know, but I sense that this may be a case of not wanting to adjust, because in doing so Craig has to face the real fact that Darryl will not need him as much in the near future, as he had in the past. Michelle has a child of her own. Craig naturally picks up on the doting that is given to Corey. I'm not sure what the answer is, other than to say that I sense that nature will take care of Darryl's sense of attachment, and that may or may not reveal other issues which can be better addressed at that time.

I have only followed this thread since you brought it to the new forum, so this might have already been addressed, but have you ever considered moving back home with him?

I understand that there may be many reasons why this would never work in your situation, but I was just curious if it had been considered...

Good luck with everything, I hope you and your family can find a way to be happy.

THanks DS but there are other problems with missing home,etc as well and not just the Daryl issue. J & JS..when Craig moved here we were reallyyy missing and so in love with each other. He has said he loves me every day since being here but I don't FEEL it most days. I wouldn't be willing to give up everything AND move Corey into a situation where I don't know if things are stable or not...to me, when Craig moved here, it was very difficult on his end, but I felt WE were ok..I don't feel that at this point, so I wouldn't be willing to consider that until I did feel we were ok. Know what I mean? M.

And if this is really the proper assessment of the situation, Michelle, then you have the unfortunate position of being that ray of sunshine that draws Craig back from a visit or keeps him wanting to be here. As hard as it might be and as unfair as it might appear, that's what you would need to project. Rows over someone missing something only exacerbates the frustration for both. Get engaged in the contact with Darryl. Suggest things Craig can do to send him, IM Darryl yourself, etc. Right now as irrational as it appears you and Darryl are polarised.

Michelle,

I understand where you are coming from. It is tough in the best of circumstances. I have already mentioned that my hubby, is back in the UK, he did not adjust well to things here in the US and has mentioned possibly divorcing because of the culture shock / differences. He wants me to pack up and move to the UK, giving up an established career and home. I am like you I would think long and hard b4 giving up everything without some solid proof that things would be OK.

You are a wonderful source of support. Take care and know that you are in my prayers.

Hugs to you!

Ronda

Have you thought about some counseling for yourself, alone?

I added Daryl to my Im list today..I tried to engage him in other topics. All he would basically say to ME even(dont know what he said to Craig upstairs on his laptop) is I want my dad and then crying faces and then that's what I'm doing right now. What do you say to that? Not much I'm afraid. I understand his feelings, I understand Craig's (even when I don't deal with them well) but I feel totally left out of this entire relationship for most of the last year. I have feelings too,even if they aren't centered around missing home. Basically, I miss Craig and how things were. I was made to feel SO special by him when he was in England and have felt none of that here. Yes, a good portion of our arguements, etc were my fault as well..I'm not saying that. But ther eis also something in the fact that when you're getting very little from someone, you get tired of trying too. I don't feel special, don't feel cared about 1/2 the time, and I'm just as tired of this as Craig is. I DO love him very much, but if this is what our life is going to be like something is going to have to give. For all the mistakes I've made, (in emotional states) I have also stood on myhead to try to make Craig feel better being over here and I don't think there's a lot I can do for the things that are really bothering him here. And the things I didn't do or when I reacted wrong get broughtup time and time and time again in arguements as opposed to the things I did do/buy/whatever to try to make him feel better. I'm at a loss now. I don't want to lose my husband, nor do I want to live in misery. I just don't know. I have feelings and needs TOO and NONE of mine are being met after more than a year..sometimes I don't think it's right to just be the bigger person. There has to be give and take and there's not right now. Craig says he has never fought so much in his life....well, nor have I. It's always his final thought at the end of each arguement..maybe we're just not as well suited as we thought. Nice way to end it. Makes me feel pretty secure. (ok..I know some of you already will say...well maybe you have to consider that) well maybe...but would you say the same if you were in love with someone so easily? I don't know. I'm confused, upset and disappointed as much as Craig is..and I never went anywhere.

A situation can be draining. All you can do is make yourself whole. If, after you have accomplished that, Craig cannot meet you half way, then the real crux of the problem has been identified and you can make educated decision based upon that information. Best of luck to you. You get an A for effort, now go and give yourself something as a reward.

I'm considering that now..thankyou. I'm already on anti anxiety meds in the last couple of months..just got something else to try this past week.

Not medication (unless that is required too) but talking to someone who can reinforce all that makes Michelle feel great about herself.

anti anxiety meds tend to work only when they are matched with councelling. You have to learn coping strategies as well as correcting the chemicals.

Now, in the case of sleeplessness this can be a little different, but in your case of taking the meds with an unchanging situation, those meds are just masking the problem.

It seems to me that you both need to learn to deal with each other and the situation you are in in a more productive manner. Now, if this means expending money on a councellor to help you do that, I'd say it's money well spent.

A good psychiatrist/psychologist can be an absolute godsend. They really can. They can mediate the problem and offer advice in a non confrontational non sided manner. You have to both want to make it work though.

Most importantly it's vital that you are emotionally well for your son. It's no good for him to be witnessing arguments and an unsettled household.

Pills are fine, but they really only work in these cases if you address the underlying cause of what is causing your body to need them.

I hope you get this worked out, you seem like a really sweet lady who has an awful lot on her plate. You are wonderfully humored and I'm sure your community loves you. I hope you get the support you need and that you and your husband figure out a way for you both to enjoy where you are and where you are going in life.

Michelle, I wish I had something constructive to add. I am sorry. I do think time for you is long overdue and addressing how you/hubby are feeling with the help of a professional is an excellent way forward. You are so supportive. Im sending you a huge {{{{{{HUG}}}}}} from across the pond.

with very best wishes,

daisy

Monique...that is the most well written thing. You are dead on in my book.

*hugs*

Thanks everyone. Actually, it was a lot of sleeplessness as well(thus my posts at 3/4 am) so it is helping for that. I agree on the counseling, for myself or us whichever..it's time. Also I've been directed to an anxiety board for women over a month(2?) ago by a member of this board and it does have all kinds of coping techniques other than medications. So I'm working on it; I'm sure, like everything else..it will take time. I just feel stressed and upset and about timed-out.M. Ilove Craig so much and it's just NOT getting better.

My heart goes out to you both, Michelle...it sounds like you're in an awful situation. I've told you this before, but when I went to England, there was a long period of adjustment for me. I compared everything to home & England usually came up short. But after time (and it was very subtle)...I found myself enjoying the differences & acclimating. Hopefully, Craig will find his way here. It's not an easy process....but then again, nothing ever is.

If it was, none of us would be at this board in the first place.

As far as Daryl is concerned.....I agree with diadromous mermaid....very soon, his whole set of priorities will change. Children in the UK are also way more adult (imo) than kids here...so Daryl will prolly be sneaking into bars sometime in the next year.

I also agree with you that I don't think the messenger thing is a constructive tool...especially since Daryl seems to be shut off to you by just repeating that he misses his dad. The crying smiley guy prolly rips Craig's heart out. Perhaps you he & the boy's mother can have a chat on the phone or something so you can all come up with ways of breaching this impasse. Because wallowing in sadness isn't going to change a thing...I know you know that, but perhaps Craig is focusing on that sadness out of guilt for leaving in the first place?

At the end of the day, the boy will be a grown man soon & be living his own life. Craig needs to think about that before exchanging his whole future for that. Why, shouldn't Daryl be going off to Uni next year anyways?

I feel bad for you both, but I can kinda feel Craig's problem, because I know what it's like to be the one to stand out. But what he hasn't realized yet is that he can't go back to the way things were. I have alsways said that my extensive travel & length of time over in the UK made me a woman without a country....when I'm there, I'm missing here, and vice versa. And no matter where I am, I'm always saying "in_________, they do this, that and the other'

And when I came home one time, after a particularly hard homesick-laden time, I found myself missing things from England that I never took any notice of while I was there.

Good luck! You are in my prayers

Thank you Lisa..I appreciate that long, heartfelt post; and to the rest ofyou..thanks for your wishes as well. M.

Michelle,

Maybe a webcam would be a help, if nothing else is will show if the smiley with tears is the real thing or just a 15 yr old trying to make his dad feel more guilty for leaving him.

I hope I havent offended you with this post, but at 15 its easier to make your parents feel guilty for the things they do.

Michelle, I think it's great that you're trying to engage Darryl more. Perhaps by making him feel like he's more a part of your family and making yourself more open to him he will realise that Craig is not so far away, and by having the easier contact will dampen the desire for it somewhat.

Is there any way to get Darryl over for a visit, so that he can spend some time with you as a family and understand that because his dad is physically far away doesn't mean that he's not thinking of him, and that he is always welcome in your household.

I feel for you both, and I agree that although culture shock is a very real thing, at some point something has to give. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you and Craig can't make it work, but as you say, you have needs too which are not being met. My inclination is to say that a swift kick to the metaphorical rear end is in order, however I'm not as nice as you. Counselling would do both of you some good - a marriage counsellor would give you a place to air your grievances and maybe show Craig how unfair he is being in a neutral environment.

I wish you all the luck in the world, and stay strong, Michelle.

*hugs*

Hi Michelle and Craig, I am so sorry that you are both suffering so much especially as late last year it seemed that things were going much better for you both. I recognise a lot of the things that Craig is feeling because I am or have been experiencing them too. I am the immigrant (Dave) and Linda is the USC. We had a fantastic online reltionship for three years before I arrived here last June (I had visited Linda 5 times and she had visited me in the UK twice). We live in a very small, rural town much like yourselves. It is a very traditional area with little in the way of stimulation or variety. The people tend to be on the older side and most have lived in this area all their lives - it is a mining area in eastern Pennsylvania. This 'remoteness' has been very noticeable to me and not being able to drive until after Christmas put a hell of a strain on my ability to cope with the completely new life I had chosen. Plus no EAD until December....it was very hard. Linda and I rowed a lot. Not massvely or violently or even particularly heatedly but both of us have lived on our own for a number of years and that alone has made it hard enough living together - I often felt that she would forget I was there and when I have been feeling particularly vulnerable (which has been quite often) I tended to take it as a dismissal of myself so I would be hurt, confused and even angry - regretting ever leaving the UK and wishing I could go back when I had no money to do so, therefore I would feel trapped and even more depressed. Of course from Linda's perspective, she was just grabbing her space for a while - which both of us like to have at times but in my depressed state I was interpreting her actions as negative towards me when they were nothing of the sort. The way we percieve things is imperfect to say the least and it is so easy to to create false realities based on a combination of depression and vulnerability. Now, before this descends into some quack psychology class, what I am trying to say is that I empathise with Craig a lot yet have managed to avoid getting to stuck in the rut of transition - mostly by reading and surfing (the net - not many waves in Schuylkill County!!). I have a daughter of 24 in the UK who I call every few weeks but she is quite independent and so although I do miss her I don't feel guilty about being here because she will get a chance to visit this year and we will maintain our relationship without having to be physically close. With Daryl being just 15 though, of course it is much harder for Craig and I would guess that it is his feelings of guilt more than anything else that is keeping him so down and unable to adjust properly. Just reading this new thread though Michelle, forgive me for saying this, but it strikes me that Daryl should be old enough to understand the situation a little better and not be so clingy. You have been bending over backwards to make every allowance for Daryl but I think that he is old enough to back off a little and understand that his stepdad has a new life now but that it doesn't mean that Craig doesn't love Daryl or is abandoning him. Maybe this is something that Craig needs to understand; Craig is entitled to find happiness and it sounds to me that he has found it in spades Michelle but his unjust sense of guilt is not allowing him to appreciate that.

Look I have probably said to much and I apologise for that chaps. You both sound like very decent people (which is how unjust feelings of guilt can take root so easily) so please don't let depression and vulnerability tear you apart. I still get (unjustly) mad at Linda and she still tears her hair out in frustration with me when I act like a moping dope or more commonly, like I don't know whether am coming or going but we always make up and have a laugh and try and try and try not to worry about the things that don't need to be worried about. We are still stumbling through and I wish to hell we lived somewhere a lot more cosmopolitan but we have each other and nothing is going to tear that apart, not even MacDonalds, which I start with on Tuesday - and Craig thinks he's got it bad?

Best wishes to you both - HANG IN THERE!!!!!!

Hi Dave..thanks for that wonderful reply...only one thing I have exception to..we haven't really done anything to 'bend over backward'for Daryl..I don't feel like there's really ANYthing that can be done for that situation. I do feel bad about it, am not as understanding about it as I should be because of sheer frustration(because of not being able to do anything about it!) and just fear this recent new 'connection' is going to make life even more miserable. As I've stated, I totally feel bad for both Craig and Daryl..but what can be done????He either leaves him in the UK, or us here. WHAT is the solution???I don't know anymore. I do love Craig very much but when he says things like I haven't been so supportive since he got here, things like that, whatever..I feel so hurt!!! He just doesn't even SEE it...he honestly believes that!!!! There were TIMES when I was not supportive..but there were TONS of times I was and tried to help. Those times are conveniently forgotten for the sake of an arguement. One huge one that comes up often is: I wanted to take a walk around the lake and you didn't come with me when I asked you to over and over; I wanted to go for a drive in the country and you argued with me' but what is there to SEE but trees, etc) (which is true) so ok..we didn't go for the drive that one time, but we DID go for others. I took him to a waterfall, and then about a week later asked him 3 or 4 times if he wanted to go to this other one and was ready willing and able to take him. We didn't go. Sometimes I feel like it's nice for him to focus on my downfalls and the things I didn't do and fail to see all that I DID do. Yes, at times I got frustrated and fought with him about stupid things. As I also said earlier in this thread, that's because I DO get frustrated TOO. This isn't just Craig going through this!! It's BOTH of us. He admits he has totally changed/withdrawn/whatever since he got here...I am just supposed to smile about that?? No, he doesn't say that, but when all of my downfalls come up...I feel that is mainly what provokes some of these things(not all, some) If I don't feel he even cares, feel affection from him,etc etc why SHOULD I go out of my way? I'm just tired of it all.

i think everyone needs to realize, including michelle & craig, that this is not about darryl, or the internet, or them chatting every day now. this is just another excuse for craig to not deal with the heart of the matter. he's had 12 months to weigh the pros and cons, but the fact remains that he does not want to live in america.

when you peel away 'i miss this about england ... i miss that about england' 'this isn't the same', etc ... you are left with two people staring back at themselves. sadly, sometimes people think they are suited for each other but they really aren't ... all the love in the world can't change that. it IS possible to love someone and not be able to live with them.

that is one of the major, usually unspoken, downsides of the immigration process. some people have not invested the time to really get to know the other person by living together. for the majority, it works out ... for some, it does not.

mich, handle this carefully with his son. you're in a very precarious situation and one where i fear you might be vilified. i think you would be better off to address your relationship with craig versus trying to talk to him about his contact with his son. craig is going to be incapable of seeing your point of view in regards to this.

of course it takes two people to have a row and of course we don't think you're lil miss innocent! but we also don't think that craig is the big bad ogre. we all know it takes two ... i think what i'm most concerned about is his denial about the situation and his refusal to actually deal with it. i know dealing with it is going to be hard and may hold consequences that one or both of you don't want to entertain ... but something has to be done. it's not healthy for all involved, least of all corey ... he has to live in this environment and has no choice about it because he's a child. i'm sure it's very difficult for him to see his mom unhappy like this at times and not feeling secure in the fact that craig is here and not leaving.

it's unfortunate that he can't be supportive of all the work that you have put into the relationship ... but that's what depression is ... he will not be able to see that because he prefers to focus on the negative. just as he failed to see the excitement when you were planning a night away a few weeks ago ... which we were all sad to see that it had been cancelled. your frustration is completely understandable. it's almost as if he is being such a curmudgeon that you will finally throw you hands and ask him leave ... then he won't be the bad guy. if that is something that he wants, he needs to be able to sit down with you and talk about it. he needs to confront and OWN his problems ... NOT make them yours. you are there to help him and he does nothing but push you away. he needs help for his depression if he wants to be in a loving, stable marriage with you.

decide what you want for you and make them known ... you've done all that you can, please stay strong, michelle ... we're all here for you. please don't beat yourself up because you are worth so much more than that!

Michelle

I really feel for you right now, I dont know if you remember my PM from a few months ago.

Your situation is exactly the same as mine was when my USC husband was in the UK. He stuck it for 3 years and hated it most of the time. I too felt like you did, not knowing if things would be different if we moved to the US, would our marriage survive out there??

Deep down he wanted me to tell him to leave as I couldnt put up with the situation, of course I wouldnt give him the easy way out, so I told him whatever decision he made would have to be his own, I didnt want to be blamed in the future. I knew he loved me so after 3 years decided he was never going to settle in the UK so we should give it a go in the US, fortunately I have settled here very well and have no regrets in moving, our marriage is better here as he is a happier person in his own country. I am not however suggesting you do the same, that would be your decision and may not be best for you.

You two have been through so much, maybe if he visited England, he would realise what he misses in his life with you here.

Whatever happens, always remember you gave it your best shot!!!

Hang on in there.

I agree Gimmy. It seems that you summed it up quite well. Sadly, sometimes, no matter how hard you try, love just isn't enough.

He may need to go back to England to figure it all out. Depression is a hard thing to live with. My hubby is back in the UK because he had a horrible time adjusting, after 6 weeks he went back. He was so homesick for England. And he is now talking divorce, or me moving there, rather than dealing with the change and the visa process. However, I think that he is scared as I am sure Craig is. He has real fears about finding work and being able to successfully adjust to life here.

I have an established nursing career here and a house.

No matter what there are no easy answers nor quick fixes. I have had to realize that his reactions and feelings have nothing to do with me. Michelle it isn't your fault, take care of you and that little one of yours. It has helped me muddle thru some of this by all of you sharing here.

Blessings to you all!!

Ronda

Well I just spent the latter part of the evening reading most of that old thread. I have to say, some of it even hurt to read...I hope all of you who expressed difficulty are doing ok throughout all the ordeals. My heart goes out to each and every one of you & I sincerely hope things work out for the best.

It is a bit terrifying to think that this may be me in another year...in fact, I spoke to D about this place & this thread tonight. He shrugged it off & said 'don't be silly'. But I'm a worrier...and this is something I really had never considered that I needed worrying about. For so long, we've been so focused on the whole 'I love you, I miss you I can't wait to be with you' that I've never thought about what happens after the 'happily ever after'

But I'll be on both sides of this immigration thing....I've lived in the UK for years...and boy was it hard! I'm a n only child, and consider my mother my best friend on the planet. I would die for her right now if need be. But when push came to shove, I had to follow my heart....and boy was that hard! Don't get me wrong, D was great, England was great, everything was fine....but it was the shock everyone talks about here. I couldn't drive...I could barely understand people...I was FREEZING to the point where the first winter I actually cried from being so cold (hey, I'm in FL). I even got freaking chicken pox in my mid 20s from the plane over there!!! (only child, remember? )

Anyways, long story short....D did everything he could to help me...and I accepted the help...because without that, why the hell was I there? I wasn't going to take out my culture shock on him...after all, he was the reason why I chose to endure all of it. Sure I could sit and moan and give in to the depression, the longing for my friends, my life, my independance, my very high paying job, my 3000sf house in Miami that I lived ALONE in to be exchanged into a terraced house in a VERY small village...but at the end of the day, there was a reason why I did it, and I felt we deserved the rewards for my sacrifices....because if we werent going to enjoy that, I shouldn't have even bothered coming.

I think it's hard for both sides for different reasons. It's just like having a very sick relative....before one of my most beloved family memebers fell ill...I'd see an ill person & feel so bad for him....now, my heart breaks for the person pushing the wheelchair....because I know what it's like to be on the frontlines of something that's not happening to you directly, but it affects every aspect of your existance while makign you invisible at the same time.

Sorry for the scattered analogy, but it's late & I'm a little emotional.

It's hard for both because even tho the USC doesn't move...we have all this stress....we have to acclimate to helping our partner find his/her feet in a new world...and that seems to take center stage to the point where the USC (or the non-emigrating spouse) ceases to be as important...and that is completely unfair.

I'm ranting, so I'm out for now. Sorry if this made no sense!

I feel that the USC goes thru just as much as the non USC does. Just in different ways.

As you know Michelle, I had to leave my 9 yr old daughter with my exhusband becuz he refused to let her move at the last minute. I at least know that in 2 yrs. she will be legally allowed to move here but in the meantime it has been gut wrenching to say the least.

We're fortunate that she is able to come for visits every Spring break,All Summer long, T-giving & Christmas. But its not really the same. She lived with me all her life. In our Parental agreement I made sure that She would have access to Webcam/mic and set up a time twice for us to Video Confrence online.having a set time is a great way for both Craig & Daryl to get used to being on VideoCam. We both have cameras and mics so no need for typing! Its not the same as being there but its pretty darn close. We usually "talk online" 3 times a week. At first it was hard and I was very sad when we would sign off , but it has gotten alot easier. It takes time! Now instead of feeling sad we look forward to our little chats. There's tons of things Craig and Daryl can do together online. Games, help with homework, surf the web together looking up the same website. There's virtual Zoos ( cameras pointed towards lots of the animals at most of the major zoos ). Criag could read to him. If they are musically inclined, they could learn guitar and pratice together online. ( of course ya need web cam/mic for this. ) Webcams aren't that expensive. My daughter and my hubby love to tell each other jokes and always end a session with there harmonicas and Kazoos. LOL ( Yes I feel like I married a 4 yr old sometimes. LOL )

Has Daryl had any counselling in regards to his relationship with Craig? I think he could do with some if at 15 yrs old he is still that sensitive and clingy. I know when boys hit puberty they go thru a sensitive stage ( Have a nephew who at 15 would cry at the drop of a hat for no reason) A few months later he was fine .

Maybe there's a MSN group for Boys that are dealing with separation from a parent. Have you looked into this? might be good for him to talk to other kids online that have the same feelings. If not and he doesn't mind talking to a 9 yr old (10 on the 8th) going on 20! , I can pass along my daughters MSN Messenger addy .

I know it must be frustrating for you but really, things will get better ! Trust me !

Lily

Thanks everyone for the understanding words and trying to be helpful and supportive. Thanks also for the PMs..will respond to them later as well...just kinda feel wiped out thinking about it all right now so I just watched Hitch..a movie I rented the other night. Basically, we've just been avoiding one another all evening aside from another small meltdown around 7pm. I don't know what to do anymore, and neither does Craig. He's a great guy, I feel like I'm a pretty good person..I just don't know if he can do this in the long run. Time will tell, but as I've stated over and over here..for some of this(like Daryl, and just being somewhere where he feels 'normal') there IS no solution in sight..at least that I can see. I'm just really depressed about it, have been for some time, and I don't know what to think even. I'm sure Craig is bemused as I am about what to do or think. Talk to you all tomorrow..I'm going to try to get some sleep before too long. I took tomorrow off school..contacted my teachers..will be there again Tues. I just need to regroup. Michelle

BIG HUGS MICHELLE

That's a tough situation to be in... At least, AOS has been approved and hopefully pressure will be off you guys at least as far as the immigration process is concerned. Looks like it would be difficult to find a solution -- neither of you seem happy...

Iv read the last few posts, Lisa, gimmy, dave, gotzfaith - really I can't agree more and what inspiring words!
I do agree that Daryl sounds kinda clingy for a 15 yr old, but some 15 yr olds are very young, and it may just be his way - unless he's doing the manipulation thing with his step-dad, or sees you as 'the enemy' who 'took his dad away' (kids know the weak points). I totally agree that if not this year then soon he was grow up a lot and switch his focus.
Thing is, Craig has to remember WHY it was he left. I dont imagine for one moment that leaving his step-son was an easy decision - but HE made it. If he wants to go back to England then fine - maybe he needs breathing space - maybe he just needs to give BOTH of you a break - but if he throws in the towel for his step-son, if he gives that as the reason for him going back, then he must realise that he has given him a LOT of power over him.
What if you 2 break up? Will he live his life in the future according soley to what his step-son wants?? And what happens when the child has his OWN life and not so much time for dad? You can bet HE won't be giving up nights out to go see him - he'll have his own life and want to get on with living it.
My daughter didn't want me to divorce her dad - but she didn't go crazy over it either - she knows we both love her and she will be able to talk to her dad whenever she eants - webcams, holidays etc. I'm sure she will miss him a lot. She loves him. That's normal and natural and expected. But she's also an independent growing up person too. I feel as long as she feels comfortable and secure in his love for her, and hers in him, then the distance won't impact that much after she is used to it.
Its my job as her mom to GET her used to it and know it isn't the end of their relationship.
I wish you luck with all this Mich - you;ve been brave sharing it all - and reminding us of the downsides which are part of normal life.
Craig really needs to sort his head out and decide what he WANTS. I also think he sounds depressed and shoul look at getting some help, medical help, to get him over this sepeartion anxiety - which he seems to have focussed on, to avoid his other issues.
If that means him leaving for a while then so be it - leaving doesn't mean its all over - but right now it seems you guys are just running in circles.


Hugs

Michelle, I know exactly where Craig is, even though I"m 6 months behind in the timeline. I'm sure it's been fairly obvious from my posts that for the last 3+ months I've been just downright angry about being here. Sad and resentful too. It's not that I hate it here, it's that it's not as good as I had it at home. I'm also very worried that because of my feelings I will destroy my marriage - the reason I gave everything up in the first place. I now believe that I made the wrong decision to move here; that instead he should have moved to Canada to live with me. (Yes, I know, shoulda woulda coulda, I didn't, and I"m wallowing right now, K! ) As LisaD said, all along the focus was on being together, I never thought about the practicalities of how I'd feel about giving up my great life.

We spent yesterday talking about how things are going for me and I spent a great deal of time crying. One of my biggest issues is the sense of loss of the relationship with my son. HE"S 22! I feel like I've abandoned him, even though I know damn well that he's a full grown man, I'm not there. My point being is that this feeling doesn't depend on the age of the child. When we left at Christmas I thought the sadness would kill me - that ache of leaving was enough to knock me over. Every time I talk to him I feel like crying. I'm the opposite of Craig, I hate to call because it get's me sad for days. And I agree 100% with gimygirl, Daryl is Craig's son. As I tried to explain to my husband, if there are 20 factors in one's life (made up number) a good proportion of them have to be in the "good" position for life to be okay. For me, and I suspect for Craig he's got less on, I only have a few on good, like spouse. Bad would be son, home, job, friends, family, etc, I'm sure you get the idea.

Many many USC have posted that they would never leave their established career and home. WTF do they think we've done They ask if of their SO but could never do it themselves.

Michelle, this is what I think you should do. ---> unsolicited advice, which I don't often give --->
1. have a down and dirty talk about what you both really want
2. If you can't do that, get Craig back to England, ASP - you both need some space to decide what you really want.
3. If you make some progress with 1, get Daryl here ASAP to help that issue
4. If 1 doesn't work, give Daryl a clear idea that you DO understand how he feels. Tell him how you cried at the airport, for example.
5. Seriously consider moving to the UK. Your son is young enough to handle it. Teenagers can't.

BTW - teenagers are drama queens. They prick their fingers on a pin and their dying of blood poisoning. Everything is a tragedy and has to be taken care of immediately by everyone in the vicinity.

Michelle, I know counsellors are expensive having been to a few. Get someone on VJ that you can pour your guts out to. You at least need to do that. I'm offering and I'm sure others will too. I was a guidance counsellor for 4 years and the kids did come back, if that's any help PM me and I'll give you my #. And yes, I can separate my own feelings. I can talk to Craig too if ya want.

Lotsa hugs

Daisy, that's a lovely offer and I really think it would do you good to take it up Michelle. At least give it a try - if it's not working you haven't lost anything.

Michelle,

sorry to hear you're going through another tough time. I can imagine how hard it is for you that Craig is caught between is life in England and his life with you. Like others, I'm sure Daryl will soon be busy thinking about girls and his future, but that of course will not make the separation easier for Craig. You two hang in there and I wish you the best of luck to get through this difficult stretch.

I do also agree that both of you should look into counseling, probably separatly and as a couple. I don't know if your school offers free counseling to its students, but if it doesn't, get in touch with your local NMHA-affiliate. They should have a list of counselors that base their fee on sliding income scales. You can find their contact info here: http://nmha.org/affiliates/directory/index...rch_state_id=56
(Lists affiliates in Wisconsin. If there aren't any in your area, call the closest one they at least will be able to help you find a provider near you).