Topic title pretty much says it all.. He comes from a fairly wealthy family in Morocco, so it's possible he might actually get a visitor visa.. I've explained to him that if they find out he intended to marry on it, he could get banned.. His fiancee has 2 kids and is unemployed and afraid to fly, so they see this as an only option- I also told him he could come here and stay for his visa, then return to Morocco so she could file a K-1, but they seem pretty intent upon disregarding immigration laws to satisfy their own impatience
What kind of obstacles are they putting in their own path? Maybe I could get him to see the light before he seriously screws up their case!!
Thanks
Sarah

There is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa and marrying w/ a previous intent to do so. Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with the intent to marry & immigrate as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app.

Correct but he can't adjust status.

Sure they can. What makes you think they can't?
They can adjust as long as there is no material misrepresentation involved.

No official is going to allow him to enter on a visitor's visa if he declares he intends to get married and adjust.

If he enters on a visitor's visa and doesn't declare his intent to marry and adjust then he's committing fraud. The onus is on the applicant to prove there was NO intent, not always an easy thing to do. If they decide he doesn't satisfy this proof, he could be deported and banned from re-entering for LIFE.

They've got 2 options when it comes to doing it the legal way:

1) She applies for a K1, he applies for a visitor's visa and he travels with a copy of the NOA1 from the K1 petition and explains that he's staying only for the length of his visitor's visa and will return to finalise the K1 processing, or when they receive NOA2. And does just that. He then returns to the US on his K1 and then they marry and adjust.

2) He applies for a visitor's visa, travels to the US and they get married. She files a K3 or a CR1 application and he stays for the duration of his visitor's visa. He returns to finalise processing and then re-enters with either his K3 and adjusts or his CR1. He should, if he wants to avoid the risk of being permanently banned from the US, tell them at his POE of his intentions to marry her and that he will leave once his visa has expired OR the NOA2 is received, whichever is the earlier. He may or may not be granted entry but can't know until he gets to his POE.

3) Failing sense in listening to you, tell them that if they commit fraud and you know, you will notify the USCIS of their intentions. It's really not fair on anyone else going through the process properly. I did this with my roommate at the time, when she was asked to marry a guy she knew from school so that he could stay in the UK on her EU passport. Told her if she did, I'd report them to the authorities. She was mad at first and thanked me after he went to marry some other chick he knew. They were stopped at the Registry Office, he was deported and she was heavily fined...

I don't know if Morocco allows self-sponsoring but if so, is he wealthy enough to prove he has liquidated funds that are 5 x roughly 27,500usd? That's the amount he'll need for him, her and her 2 kids. Otherwise, again if Morocco allows it, they'll need a co-sponsor.

Your post is misleading... there is no permanent ban from the US if you enter and get married and remain and file for AOS... as others have said as long as you did not misrepresent your self at the POE then as a immediate relative of a USC (Spouse, Parents, Minor Children) you can legally file for I-130 and AOS and remain in the USA while it is being processed.

I would be interested to see where you are getting the information from that say you will get a permanent ban from the USA.

A link?.......

Most young men wealthy or poor wont get a visitors visa from morocco

Not true - there are plenty of wealthier individuals who do get visitors visas. I can think of 5 that I personally know off the top of my head. I won't weigh in on the situation but there are hundreds of couples who go through a paper marriage for immigration purposes and it seems this might perhaps be a legitimate relationship? Not condoning it but there are worse situations. Perhaps he will get the visitors visa, come and find out that they really don't want to get married. If one is lucky enough to be granted a visitors visa, it's no different from a USC going to Morocco to visit, finding out they do want to get married and doing so - IMO. IT could go either way.

SunDrop is clearly misinformed on this issue. I'll admit I was on the wrong side of this issue at one time as well, that is until I read case law that proved me wrong. There are groups of people on here who, regardless of the contradicting evidence available, want to push their own agenda. Two issues (among others) where this happens often seem to be employment authorization and adjusting status while on a visitor's visa. SunDrop, I encourage you to start by looking at this thread. You will see that you are incorrect.

BS. Coming to the USA on a visitor's visa with the previous intent to marry is circumenting immigration laws. There are different classes of visa for each purpose. Knowingly or willfully using one type of visa for the purpose of another is flat out, fraud and misrepresentation.

Furthermore, you know better and you know that it isnt right, "as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app."

So when the CBP officer asks the point of entry "What is your propose in the USA" and the answer is "Toursim" but leaving out the part about being so clever and forgetful to mention the "getting married" part amounts to a half-truth, and a misreprentation of intent.

So if they they do not ask "ARE YOU GOING TO GET MARRIED WHILE ON THIS VISITOR'S VISA?" and nothing is mentioned on the application for same. Then in your mind its OK to be granted the privilege of visiting the country as a tourist, and not that of an intending immigrant?

It will catch up to you. Big brother is reading this board also.

As a moderator you are giving the advice that someone enter the US with a non-immigrant visa with clear immigrant intent?

I understand that it occurs. Just wanting to get the VJ moderator's stance on this behavior.

As long as there is no material misrepresentation, there is no problem. Nowhere did I say that it would be easy to get into the country by being honest in this situation. You are making a lot of assumptions here, but what I am saying is really very simple and straightforward. I pointed to a thread that cites case law on this issue. If that isn't enough to convince you, then I'm afraid nothing will get you off the bandwagon.

A visitor visa will NOT be granted to someone who tells the truth, that he is coming here to marry. His purpose in visiting will be asked, and if he tells the truth, he'll be denied. How misinformed can you be?

If you are saying that no one has ever been granted a visitor's visa with the intent to marry w/out misrepresenting themselves and has then married and legally adjusted status w/out problems, then you are not just misinformed, you are delusional.

i don't know...
whole scenario seems a bit dodgy to me.
Even if his family is wealthy, how wealthy is he? Does he own land? Does he own a business? What are his ties to Morocco? While some young Moroccan men might succeed in getting an tourist visa, it's not easy. I understand she is afraid to fly and has kids, but still, she is considering marrying this guy and into is culture... Surely there is some way for her to get herself over there...? People who are afraid to fly still somehow manage to do so...

Likewise, i thought to even attempt a K1 visa, you had to show prove of having met in the past x amount of years, yes?

i think the best idea is to try what someone mentioned above:
Hopefully he can get a tourist visa, come for a visit, see if they are really meant for each other, then he goes back to Maghreb and she attempts the K1. With any luck, he'll be back in less than a year.

I just read your post again and realized that you aren't even arguing about the intent to immigrate. You seriously think that it is not possible to come here on a tourist visa and marry without breaking the law? Really? Wow. And you are calling me misinformed?

Horsesqueeze. They see this as an easy option. He can, legally, get a tourist visa, fly to the United States, marry his fiancee in the US, she can petition him on a CR-1 and he can go back to wait for the approval. That is their LEGAL option. I would give them slim to no chance a man from Morroco could pull this off the illegal route. They will be married and he will be deported. Great. Also no matter how they do this, she is going to have to provide an affidavit of support for him to adjust status. I can tell you that even beneficiaries from Morroco that do it the legal way are heavily scrutinized.

Thanks to everyone who responded.. It's not only a frustrating situation for me because my fiance and I are choosing to do things the "right" way, but also because this guy is a friend of mine, and I would hate to see him mess up his chances to be with his loved one..
I guess all I can do is relay the things I have been informed of here, and hope that he makes the best decision..
Thanks again,
Sarah

you ain't lyin'...



well, good luck to them... hopefully they will figure out a way to manage!

If you read my post you will see that I was asking SunDrop to tell us where he/she was getting information that a person would be banned for life if they entered with the intent to get married and remain.

I also said that as an immediate relative of a USC it is legally possible to enter the USA on a tourist visa and not misrepresent yourself at POE and file for I-130 and AOS.

While I do not condone anyone attempting to take any action that is illegal, we all know that it happens. I was pointing out that there are situations where having entered on a tourist visa or VWP does not stop you from filing for a greencard.

In this case it is highly unlikely that a tourist visa would be issued in this case..

Tay

I have never known anyone from a high-fraud country who is granted a visitor visa for the purpose of coming here to marry. Have you? Maybe you are suggesting he apply for such visa to come here as a tourist (and thus telling a lie)?

It is different from a USC going to Morocco to marry because we don't need a visa to go there like they do to come here.

My SIL is applying next week for a visa to visit with us. In order to be approved, she will be interviewed at the US consulate and is required to bring documents that prove that she has extensive ties to Morocco that will motivate her to return to her country to live. She will also take a letter of invitation from us that state where she will stay and what she will do during her visit.

B2 is not an immigration visa, it is a temporary visitor visa. While he can come and marry here, he has to be aware that if he misrepresents himself at the interview as merely coming to visit, he can be banned for fraud when it becomes clear that his intent was other than that. Judicial precedent is not reliable due to the government's ability to supercede it under the Patriot Act.

Muslim men from MENA need to be aware that immigration fraud applies to them in ways that it may not apply to someone from the west. And, so do the punishments. Tell your friend if she wants to marry foreign, she needs to get a J-O-B, some money and overcome her fear of flying. Travel and cost are a big part of getting this done successfully.

I still say (in my opinion) a unmarried Moroccan man prob will not be allowed a visitors visa for any reason

always wise w/ the words Sofiyya

My 2 dirhams - this situations reeks of bad news! That's all I'll say bcuz I'm being nice

Let's look at the facts:

1) He's applying for a tourist visa so that he might enter the US with the intent of marrying his USC fiancee.
2) Using tourist visas/ VWPs to enter the US so that you can get married and adjust status in order to remain in the country is fraudulent use of the visa and if discovered, can lead to a lifetime ban.

According to section 212(a)(6)© of Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), any alien who, by fraud or willfully misrepresenting a material fact, seeks to procure (or has sought to procure or has procured) a visa, other documentation, or admission into the United States or other immigration benefits is inadmissible unless a waiver is granted. A finding of fraud under section 212(a)(6)© of the INA results in a lifetime bar unless granted a waiver.

3) The responsibility to prove there was NO intent lies with the petitioner/ beneficiary.
4) Morocco is considered a 'high risk' embassy and obtaining any kind of visa is not a straight forward process.

And the reference to the lifetime ban, please let it be noted that I said 'could result' not 'will result'.

If you would take two minutes to read the links I referenced, you will see that you are 100% wrong. Nowhere does it say that during the AOS process the immigrant must prove that there was no intent to immigrate. Please offer one example of a case where someone's AOS petition was denied simply because they arrived on a tourist visa w/ the intent to adjust status w/out any material misrepresentation involved. Also, the blurb you quoted does not in any way help to prove the uninformed opinions you have been pushing in this thread. All that blurb does it back up what I have been saying: material representation is grounds for rejection of an AOS petition. Coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with an intent to immigrate is not in itself misrepresentation. Your logic is flawed and I suggest you read up on this topic more before you continue spewing incorrect information in a public forum.

Hi Squeaky580,

It's not illegal to come to the US and get married while down here for a visit. As long as one came here WITHOUT the intention to get married in the first place on the visit and not do this as to avoid and/or break immigration laws, then it's fine and legal to do.

I was in this situation before too, as I came over to visit my boyfriend (now husband), on a tourist visa from Canada for 2 weeks, and then ended up getting married here in the USA within those two weeks, and overstayed, and then filed the paperwork with immigration. And yes, it was risky, but I did get approved and got my green card afterwards (and am now applying for US Citizenship..lol..). Though if I were denied, there would have been no room for appeal, and could lead to deportation and/or a lifetime ban from the USA.

For more information on my sitation, see my VJ timeline (the link can be found on my signature).

However, from what you described, your "foolish friend" has "intention" and is better off filing for a K1 (fiance visa...go back to Morocco, file the paperwork, get married in the USA, adjust status), K3 (marriage visa...go back to Morocco, get married in Morocco, file paperwork, come to the USA, adjust status), or CR (marriage visa...go back to Morocco, get married in Morocco, file paperwork, come to the USA...)

Tell him: Don't be a fool! Don't mess with immigration! Don't commit immigration fraud! Do it the right way, or not at all!....

Hope this helps. Good luck with yours and your friend's immigration journey.

Ant (Visited, Married, Immigrated, Living Happily Ever After In The USA...)

rsn:

I'm more than happy to concede my understanding of the law is wrong IF indeed it is. I think the confusion lies in how there can be no material misrepresentation, if, at both the POE and the initial application for a visitor's visa, he states he intends to travel on said visa to get married and file an AOS.

Granted, if he can successfully apply for a visitor's visa and get through the POE having declared his intent, then yes, there has been no misrepresentation and good luck to them both!

Off to read your directed threads...

If she won't fly, will she get on a boat? Bound to be someway to get to Morocco by boat, train, yes?

If he's so wealthy, HE can pay for the tickets, no problem !

Have these two met before?

Form DS-156

26. How long do you intend to stay in the US?

27. What is the purpose of your trip?

41. I certify that I have read and understood all the questions set forth in this application and the answers I have furnished on this form are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that any false or misleading statement may result in the permanent refusal of a visa or denial of entry into the United States. I understand that possession of a visa does not automatically entitle the bearer to enter the United States of America upon arrival at a port of entry if he or she is found inadmissible.

So he must lie on these two questions and possibly face a lifetime ban if caught or he must be honest and be refused the visa.

Don't see how there is any way to get out of the misrepresentation thing. It is asked on the application for the visa which you must fill out to obtain a visa.

But I really think it doesn't matter since he most likely will not get a tourist visa and/or there is not enough income/assets to meet the requirements for AOS.

Advice from people about people who are not dealing with a MENA consulate is not the best advice for people who are dealig with a MENA consulate. RSN and others, while you may mean well, those of us who are very familar with MENA situations are better equiped to offer advice to women who are intent on marrying MENA men. This is why there is a MENA board; the circumstances facing us and the application of the US law is often not simiar to those coming from Canada or Asia. Please keep this in mind before insisting that your advice is applicable here as it may be elsewhere, for it is easy to mislead someone even as you intend to help them.

Great. Comments from yet another person who has not even taken the time to read the thread. I really wish more people would take the time to understand what they are commenting on instead of blindly injecting their opinion. My comments (and a few others) have nothing at all to do this any particular consulate. I offered no input regarding the particulars of obtaining a visa in Morocco. My comments (and others) relate to immigration procedure w/in the U.S..

Material Misrepresentation
Definition:
Deliberate hiding or falsification of a material fact which, if known to the other party, could have aborted, or significantly altered the basis of, a contract, deal, or transaction.
source: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definiti...esentation.html

So basically, you're saying my friend should lie.. not a good idea, I think.. Thanks anyway..

Nope, I didn't say that at all. Nice try though. Thanks anyway!

OK, I've read the thread you pointed us to.

I realise that I was wrong in thinking that the AOS petitioner/beneficiary have the onus to prove that there was no intent.

To be honest, however, we seem to be arguing at cross purposes on the rest of it because the fact is that the OP stated this friend of hers intends to materially misrepresent himself twice in order to marry his USC fiancee.

Ergo, yes, it is possible to AOS from a visitor's visa successfully even when you have material misrepresentation involved and yes, many do successfully.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

I take issue but honestly, am big and bad enough to move on from, being accused of 'spewing information on a public board' when my only inaccuracy was stating the onus of proof is on the petitioning couple. Is there really any need to be so patronising?

I'm curious where you see two instances of misrepresentation in the OP's post. I suppose you can argue that there is one, and that is debatable.



If it was fraud, then it could potetially result in a AOS denial. It cannot. Furthermore, this is not a MENA issue. Once you are in the U.S. and have filed for AOS, you no longer have to deal with the U.S. embassy abroad. If you are talking about the simple act of filing for the tourist visa in the OP's home country, then you are not addressing my original comments at all.

You need stop and think about your reply you gave in response to my last post. You Highlighted the Immidiate Relative in red and said that he is not the immidiate relative so that does not apply... He may not be a immidiate relative when he gets his tourist visa or when he arrives at POE but he will be 100% immidiate relative after they marry and apply for AOS/I-130. And as an immidiate relitive he will not be diened because he entered on a tourist visa or VWP.

It is also up to USCIS to prove that there was intent not the applicant.

Should the OP's friend plan to enter on a tourist visa and then get married and remain? I would say no it would be better for him to apply for a K1 visa given all the dificulties that are involved with a MENA Consulate. That does not change the fact that a person can adjust their status legally from a tourist visa or VWP.

I did read the thread you cited. I responded as I did because it's clear that your advice is not specific to Morocco, whereas people, like myself and others on the MENA board, can offer advice specific to the US consulate in Morocco based on the history we know from what has gone before. Giving general advice is not helpful to this particular discussion, and thats what I was saying to you.

It would be best to start a new thread for your general, non-MENA deduced advice since it isn't good advice to give a woman who wants to commit fraud with a MENA man.

Let's just say that the Embassy in Morocco issues a tourist visa even knowing that the person intends to marry while there. A bigger issue can occur at the POE when they can be denied entry for "improper documents." They can possibly withdraw the petition or be given an expedited removal back to Morocco. This improper document charge can then turn into misrep at the consulate. If they get into the US, it should(note I said should) be relatively easy to adjust. I could only see this being an issue if they enter with the tourist visa and marry right away.

Speaking from personal experience, the OP's friend does not want to risk it at all. My spouse just overcame a lifetime bar for misrep and it was not easy. Waivers of inadmissibility are not guaranteed and Morocco waivers in Rome seem to be a crapshoot. It can go either way. For us, terrorism in Algeria and my son's very serious heart condition are what got my husband home after 27 months. Please let this person know that it can go either way. They can wait a few more months and do things the right way or risk it taking much longer to get home...if ever.

Where's the head-spin emoticon! lol...

I'm thinking the 2 instances of misrepresentation would be applying for a visitor's visa, where you effectively agreeing to return after a set time period and then again at the POE. Therefore obtaining both the visa and entrance.

It's a MENA issue in so far that part of this process involves applying for the initial visitor's visa is happening in Morocco.

I'm therefore addressing your original comments in that there are 2 stages to the OP's case scenario - obtaining a visitor's visa and entering with the intent of marrying and going through AOS.

I think I've addressed the semantics of my various posts several times now. What we are debating are different issues. You stated that as an IR he could xyz, and I was merely pointing out that until they marry, he is not an IR.

To draw this all to a close, I sincerely hope he gets asked when applying for his tourist visa whether he intends to marry his fiancee, because his reply - if denying he intends to marry her - would make his material misrepresentation concrete. I am NOT saying he cannot adjust nor am I saying he WILL 100% receive a lifetime ban. Rather, I am saying that if AOS is successful (and it's likely to be) he would have obtained his LPR status, as an IR, fraudulently.

I haven't ever said that it's impossible to adjust status legally, please do check back my posts if you are so inclined!

If this couple has never met.......

I don't see how there could possibly any misrepresentation involved - Morocco, Paris, Guatemala - wherever. Not at the consulate and not at adjustment of status.

Unless the traveler is already dead-set on marrying this woman he has never met before.

Did I miss where the OP said they'd never met? quite possible, there's several discussions taking place within the thread! lol..

The fact that the OP describes this guy's USC as his fiancee indicates there is a pre-existing intention to get married. The misrepresentation is when he applies for a visitor's visa to gain entry to the US for the express purpose of getting married and remaining (this is what the K1 is for, after all) and then potentially at the POE but only if they specifically ask him if he plans to marry his fiancee and he replies that he does not. And you don't have to be from a high risk country to be asked this!

Well I presume they've not met. The woman is supposed to be afraid of flying.

You are correct in your assumption that they have not met.. I guess he is dead-set on marrying her, (IMHO, I don't like the girl and I think it will turn out bad no matter what they do).. My question was basically regarding the legality of what he told me he planned to do, and what, if anything I could recommend he do in a legal way..

And I really appreciate everyone's help

Well then - given that - the whole thing goes beyond the realms of legality and into the realms of stupidity.

Really.

it sucks to watch good people do stupid sh#t

Rich man wants to come to US on tourist visa to marry someone he never met (using the fastest route possible) to obtain a green card.

Not a new story.