U.S. Officials Defend Ploys to Catch Immigrants

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
Published: February 11, 2006

Despite criticism from advocates for immigrants, federal immigration officials said in recent days that they would not forswear the practice of impersonating occupational safety officials to round up illegal immigrants.

Last July, federal agents arrested 48 workers at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in North Carolina on charges of being illegal immigrants after the agents tricked the workers into attending what was billed as a mandatory training session sponsored by the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

Afterward, the federal Labor Department, North Carolina officials and immigrant and job safety advocates criticized the ploy. They argued that the sting might cause immigrant workers to distrust safety officials just as the authorities were stepping up efforts to reduce the disproportionately high injury rate among Hispanic workers.

Lawyers for several labor and immigrant groups said yesterday that they were dismayed that when they met with officials at Immigration and Customs Enforcement on Jan. 30, the officials refused to rule out again using a safety-related ruse to lure immigrant workers.

Marielena Hincapié, director of programs at the National Immigration Law Center, said, "They said they would not commit to not doing this anymore, despite the fact that this would have a chilling effect on workers."

Ana Avendano, a lawyer with the A.F.L.-C.I.O., also criticized immigration officials for not providing the assurances that safety advocates were seeking.

"We told them that the population of workers that we're dealing with is suffering the highest mortality rate and highest injury rate on the job," Ms. Avendano said. "If immigration officials are going to use OSHA as a ruse, all they will do is reduce the trust of workers to go to OSHA with concerns about safety problems."

Dean Boyd, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, emphasized that ruses were standard law enforcement policy. "We're not going to rule out valid investigative techniques," he said.

cont. at http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/national....html?th&emc=th

I have no problem with immigration law enforcement, but it seems wrong to do it under the guise of occupational safety.

I think law enforcement used to do the same thing with criminals. If you break the law you pay!

Yes, but can they find any other way? What they are doing will discourage people from attending safety orientations.

About time the Feds got off their butts and did something. It's all most worth getting arrested to get out of a mandatory government training class. LOL

These are all one-offs anyway. Until USCIS/whoever goes after the employers, the violations will continue.

Like most of these stories, they love to distort by writing about "immigrants". This story is not about "immigrants". It is about "illegal aliens". It is about foreign nationals that have entered our country illegally without a visa (most likely) or overstayed a visa (not as likely) and are working illegally here for less than prevailing wages. Which is why these unscrupulous employers so love to hire them.

And it is why these inaccurate stories are written to generate sympathetic propaganda to muddy the waters by lumping legal immigrants and illegal aliens together. Legal immigrants with proper authorization have nothing to fear. And illegal aliens get what they deserve...deportation. Too bad these employers don't get what they really deserve...fines and jail.

You can blame George W. and our US Congress for this chronic joke.

Well said peejay,




You do have to remember that illegal aliens became that statis because they either broke the law in the past to be here or are presently breaking the law now. Why should they have rights in this country, according to our laws they should be deported so it seems that someone is lax in doing their job.

I totally agree that employers should face stiffer fines and penaliteis for employing illegals.. they employ them, treat them like dirt, give them no benefits, and pay them nothing, and the excuse is always 'without illegals all the prices would be higher' - but how do we KNOW this? Not EVERY business employs illegal workers and they aren't all struggling to survive. What they really mean is their profits would be lower...

It would be interesting to hear what OSHA has to say about this tactic. I don't have a problem with deporting illegal immigrants, but I can see how this might have an effect on workplace safety. What the immigration advocates are trying to say is that distrust of OSHA safety among immigrants may lead to serious safety incidents not being reported. The downside of this is that workplace safety might suffer for the illegals and the US citizens working with them, if there was a fear of reporting incidents to OSHA or of participating in safety training.

As Jay said Employers are only moaning because there profit will go down, and this is about illegal immigrants not about peeps who have done all of this the right way.

I don't mind them doing this at all. When my fiance gets here he will have nothing to fear because we have gone about this in the right way. He will be a legal immigrant. Those who are illegal may face more danger, but in the end, they're here illegally anyway. That may sound cold, but it's irritating. Just before I moved from North Carolina a law was passed stating that illegal aliens would be able to get a driver's license. It would be different from the regular drivers license, but basically serving the same purpose. WHAT'S THE POINT?! Once they identify themselves as an illegal alien needing that license, deport them! I get very angry on this subject. There are many hispanics in North Carolina, I grew up with many whose family immigrated legally, but in the area I lived in everyone just lumped them all together as "Wetbacks" and other racist terms.

Sorry, that is a sore subject for me. I'll get down off my soapbox now.

Miranda,

Don't get mad, get pro-active. Right now the Senate Judiciary Commitee is debating putting 2 massive amnesty bills on the floor of the US Senate to let ALL of these illegals that broke the law to enter the USA without a visa to be allowed to stay. Everyone else waits in line to do it right and Big Business pushes its illegal workers to the front of the line ahead of everyone. This is absolutely appalling! More rewards for the illegals and the crooks that employ them in violation of our laws. This is exactly 20 years since the last massive amnesty that was shoved down our throats in the Immigration Reform Control Act of 1986. Ronald Reagan and the US Congress promised that in exchange for an amnesty of illegals in 1986 they would pass legislation to enforce immigration laws and penalize employers that hired illegals in the future. THEY LIED! Just look at the joke we have in 2006 with the millions of illegal aliens everywhere. They lied big time!

Don't be fooled again by more promises and lies. Write your Senator to vote against the Spector / McCain / Kennedy guest worker amnesty bills. It is 1986 all over again. Tell your Senator that you want an "enforcement only" bill from the Senate exactly like the US House's HR4437 bill. Enforcement of the law and no amnesty for scofflaws. Don't let the crooks sneak another amnesty bill under our noses ever again. It is just plain wrong to reward crooks and scofflaws.

How's that for a soapbox!!!

Enforcement is the way to go on this type of illegals. People from Mexico for instace view it as their RIGHT to invade the USA illegally. This is nothing like someone overstaying because they just need to be with a spouse and had a denial. These people may plan for years to illegally enter the USA and to then bring their entire family, friends, purely with the intention of working illegally or sponging off USA beneficence.
Applause for the immigration officials posing as Occ. Safety officials to round them up! Very appropriate since it is obvious, people who will not deign to learn the language of the country they will work in, ARE going to be a danger in the workplace, as well as a nuisance. Communication is critical in many workplaces in order to describe working in a safe fashion, as well as any warning that might need to be issued.
And why do these planned illegals not simply learn English well to fit in? Because they do not wish to fit in. And I speak from experience of living beside such twice in my life and trying to help them fit. They dont wish too. They want fancy rims and stereos and to blair them at all hours and throw their bottles in your yard. That's Macho.
But even that is not why they do not want to learn English. It is because there is an organized effort on their part to make Spanish the dominant language not only in the USA, but worldwide. I've spoken to them about this. So don't think it is paranoia. They brought it up in some rantings upon an American site that would not let them post in Spanish.
We should arm ourselves with knowlege and pens, and turn aside this invasion like any other.
DISIPAR
PS. (I am the same race as they are ... but know how to follow a law)

Disipar,

Sounds like you have something against Mexicans (your fellow country men?) or just different people? I live next door to a family of Mexicans (on a very normal street) and I have to say.. I been here 6 months and in all that time I’ve not witnessed anything the like of what you are talking about! If anything the people next door appear to be as normal as any group of people I’ve encountered. No bottles being tossed, loud music and no fancy rims .. in fact the only fancy rims I’ve seen on this street where a very white American’s car!

I never knew it was a requirement to “learn English” to be in the US? I always thought English and Spanish where the two dominant languages in the US, maybe I’m wrong? I think your version of “fitting in” and other people’s version of “fitting in” are quite different. Legal or illegal you can’t deny a man or woman their right to be different, if you deny them that you’ll eventually deny yourself the same right.

Without this coming across the wrong way, you entire post came across to me as almost fascist in a lot of ways! I’m glad I don’t live next door to you, you might take offence if I put up my Irish flag or get annoyed if I played some music or even worse get really pissed off I failed to speak proper (American?) English in my non American accent.

I’m not trying to defend anyone that’s here illegally I just don’t like it when people get on their “I’m better than them” horse and claim they “sponge” what? Sponge?.. I came here legally and I don’t cant and wouldn’t “sponge” how can an illegal “sponge”? I don’t care what group of people you claim to be from, you’re no better than anyone else in this place!

Don't be so certain of this. My wife was scared she would be deported last year. The crime? Leaving the house without her passport (to go to the beach, I believe). Would you take your passport to the beach? Me either. The police called INS, took quite a while before INS decided to let her go. They could have detained her to check on her papers - we all know how FBI name checks go (months).

Last year I was stopped almost EVERY DAY driving to work at a CBP roadblock (more than 200 miles from the border). They looked in the car, told me to open my trunk a few times. I didn't see how this was even legal (but I guess they have been doing it for years in New York State).

I hate to be paranoid, but I honestly believe that any legislation that deals with illegal aliens will end up causing problems for legal immigrants as well.

The reality is - there is no way prevent illegal aliens from being in the US without creating a police state. How much would it cost to remove at least 10 million people? Who would replace them at their jobs? As long as they are in the US, they are still protected by some form of due process. We don't have that many judges and courts.

There is no easy, or even good solution to the problem. (I think there are bigger problems in the US than terrorism or immigration though. They just aren't as popular to discus on TV at the moment.)

If you live near the border...there will always be border issues. We are talking about sovereign countries and their sovereign rights to control their borders. It is no different than what goes on when you are travelling internationally through international airports. POE's will always be more restrictive than the interior of the USA and that includes layers of checkpoints in areas known for human smuggling and other international criminal activity.

My Belarusian friend and his Kazahk girlfriend were driving from the beach at South Padre Island near Corpus Christi, TX and they ran into an ICE/US Border Patrol checkpoint miles from the border. My friend had his Green Card, but his girlfriend did not have her student visa documents or passport. She was likewise detained until her legal status could be confirmed. She was eventually realeased and learned a valuable lesson from her experience.

I do not consider these and other similar incidents to be analogous to a "police state".

A vast majority of Americans do not want "open borders" or masses of illegal aliens invading our country. It can be done with a minimum of inconvenience, but will not be without at least some obtrusiveness. Life isn't totally painless.

Handing out another amnesty to millions of illegal aliens is just plain giving up. Allowing another 11-20 million illegal aliens to gain legal residency and citizenship after the 1986 amnesty and subsequent mini-amnesties thereafter is nothing short of surrender. The key is to rigidly regulate and enforce employment and immigration laws. For illegal aliens the draw is risk vs reward. As a nation we need to ensure that the risk far outweighs any reward. Amnesty is a classic reward. The illegal alien is rewarded for illegally immigrating. No wonder it has proven to be a huge magnet for more of the same.

We do not have to physically remove all 11-20 million illegal aliens. They came from somewhere and they can return to somewhere after the party is over. Millions of people visit the USA from all over the world and return home every year. This is called tourism. Let's put this into perspective.

If 43.8 million+ foreign visitors to the USA can come and go logistically every year, why does it seem so impossible a task to refuse these illegal aliens amnesty and require them to eventually go home? If they cannot easily live, work, thrive, and survive openly in the USA...they will go home...just like the 43.8 million+ foreign tourists. There is no need to repeat the blunder of the 1986 amnesty of illegal aliens and the proven failure of that huge mistake. Let's get it right in 2006. Amnesty is not the only choice. Amnesty is nothing less than a total surrender and there are quite a lot of us Americans DO NOT believe in surrender.

I'm tired of hearing the propoganda that we should just cave in and accept illegal immigration because nay sayers would have us believe that it cannot be stopped. The fact is that you get what you tolerate. You keep doing what you always did and you will get what you always got.

Sorry, I can't come to the phone right now.
After the beep, please clearly state your name and the bad news.
(I will return your call)



Hey, what's up Deejay? Long time no hear. You're not a the beach today?!

Quite the opposite sweetie. I'm 35 miles from the beach...35 miles from the beach and out on the salty sea at my work on a petroleum production platform on the Gulf of Mexico. After spending 11 years of my life actually living and working out on the ocean, I never can understand why people love to go on ocean cruises. I can't wait for my shift to end and go home to dry land. Did you ever have to pull a 16-18 hour shift in mid January outside in 40*F temps and 35 mph damp humid rainy winds? It will make a man out of you!

PJ,

Knowing her, she will probably look down on you for that.

That's a new one. Spanish rules the world.

I'll be chuckling for days about this.... crap.

Piece of cake! LOL.

But wait. How does PJ find time to post on VJ between his 16-18 hours' shifts?? : Pfff... L-I-A-R!

Hello PJ? Hellooooo...

Bloody hell its gone a bit quiet in here. A quiet blog is like a dead pub. Why would we want that?

Talking about beaches. A few hours of sunshine here in New York...

I hear you can get a real nice tan on in the Gulf of Mexico? But that would makes me look like someone of middle eastern appearance or worse, an illegal immigrant who was just let under the wire!

Heeeelllllloooooo

Доброе утро!
Sorry...I was asleep last night, but I'm awake now.

I'm beginning to believe that you don't love me. Liar? It is true I have an easy assignment this week. At my age I take the easy road when it is available, but I have pulled my share of nightmare in hell shifts. If you learn anything about working as a grunt in the GoM oilfields...when the cash register quits ringing the big boys don't care what it takes to get the product flowing past the sales meters. I've done my fair share of 36 hours without sleep, eating on the run marathons to get it done. Of course it was all at time-and-a-half hourly overtime rate.

Sun tan? The summer on the GoM it is more of a roasting. The heat and humidity is stifling when the wind dies. Yes... I get chocolate brown in the summer, but I inherited my mom's Slavic features and have blue eyes. I have been waived through US Border Patrol checkpoints in south and west Texas many times without being mistaken for a Mexican national.

До свидания!

I can't believe you two are still at it.

If you're going to have a flame war (of sorts) you could at least do it in the Off Topic forum where everyone else would notice!

Heloooo Deejay,

No, I don’t hate you. I just like picking on you. Glad you had a good night sleep. Like the French would rather say “sleeping is eating” (“qui dort dine") Sleep really helps when you walk across the desert on an empty stomach .... Imagine what I went through to get on here!! I even managed to break into the security compound through the electric fence. Am I in? Dammit. If they let me under the wire, they’ll let anyone in!

Helloooo Eugene Smith,

A good flame war? WHERE??? Fantastic!! I'm getting bored. We need more people slagging each other off. Any chance of a blog on the real issues of the day and not swans, elephants and vitamin supplements? Just a thought.

The real issue of the day is sex with robots and a diet involving fresh placenta.

You're a riot!!! Have you tried having sex with an helmet?

(in the off topic section, I see Deejay is posting on the illegal Chinese immigrants....)

I'm off to walk the dog. I'll see ya later

Not if I see you first! Ha! Ha!
And I thought I had an easy life!
Glad to know I'm not hated. Hey, I can take a joke...better picked on than picked off.
Here's some nuggets of wisdom...don't go trippin' in the boonies without adequate food, water, or the means to get your next ration. The life you save may be your own.