The following are two messages that ScottishHighlands just left on Gary Bala's blog. I hope you find them as interesting as I did.

Jim Peterson wrote:
Why is nobody else at http://www.visajourney.com?

VisaJourney.com needs to have anti-IMBRA posting every day.

There is a major discussion going on now about the Cumberland Times article.
29/06 07:35:46

Jim Peterson wrote:
Guys,

Don't come on the visajourney.com forum too strongly, but please do register and give an opinion. Dave Root started a thread and I find myself the only one there who is talking sense.

You see, many men there want so much their fiances to be accepted that they are willing to distance themselves from men who actually used an IMB. They distancing themselves but they are cutting off their own noses to spite their faces.

Cowards!

The women are outright feminists who support IMBRA and then expect someone to cry boo hoo that their french guy cannot get into the USA.
29/06 08:50:12

Ok, then it's a tag team troll post then. That explains it.

How about it Captain Ewok? Me thinks me smells a dirty troll!

I didn't bother reading except I find it just stupid that his name is IMBRA 2005 when it passed in 2006. Duh.

Nah!!! I am not talking about IMBRA2005!!!!! I am talking about Dave858 and ScottishHighlands!!

Which one is the troll? I see 2 IDs bent on posting their strong opinions regarding this. If you are defining a troll by signing up just to post extreme positions about this single topic, then I see 2 trolls.

OK, well - it still applies!

Actually, it's called the "International Marriage Broker Regulation Act of 2005." It was passed by Congress in December 2005, but not signed by the president until January 2006.

(oh, and thanks, Gary!)

I only see one of them starting a thread to stir up action against the other.

Here is wikipedia's definition of "troll":

In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude, repetitive or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy and antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion.

Honestly, and in my own defense, I don't think that describes me or my contributions to this forum over the past month or so. I did, however, seek to expose someone who signed up yesterday for what he is.

But if I'm truly not welcome here, then I have no desire to stay.

I think it applies to you both.

Let's face it: IMBRA2005 does not have a boyfriend or fiance who might be affected by IMBRA.

She is here to lobby her cause which is the acceptance of IMBRA by those who want visas.

I suspect that she is with the TJC which got the law written and passed.

There is no problem with her being here to lobby her views. There is a problem if she is creating extra identities for herself.

Meanwhile, the half dozen guys at another IMBRA forum do have a right to come here and argue with her.

Ms. Miller (AKA IMBRA2005) has been using the VisaJourney forum to personally insult those who disagree with the IMBRA law and wish to launch lawsuits against it.

She is using the weak debating strategy of not dealing with the issues and just trying to whip up "everyone here thinks you are wrong"...when she doesn't even have a foreign boyfriend or fiance.

The men and women at GaryBala.com, who are also trying to get foreigners into the USA, almost have more of a right to come give their views on this forum than a member of the organization that wrote IMBRA.

I am about to propose to a Russian woman. I just found this website. I have as much moral right to post at VisaJourney as someone who has been here for two months. So do the 4 or 5 friends I know from GaryBala.com.

This thread only shows that IMBRA2005 is a professional who is perusing the anti-IMBRA blogs.

IMBRA2005 has a mission to influence VisaJourney.com members despite her not having a fiance or foreign boyfriend herself.

Well, I think what I was doing in starting this thread was to post the evidence (for the rest of the community to ultimately decide) that tends to demonstrate ScottishHighlands was in fact posting "messages designed intentionally to annoy and antagonize the existing members." He so much as admitted it in the post that I cut and pasted.

I just don't think I've done that, I'm sorry. I have consistently provided truthful information with references for verification. I admit, it's a controversial topic, but nothing I've posted had the intended purpose of annoying or antagonizing existing members. That's the difference.

If I'm wrong about this, then I would appreciate someone explaining to me what line I crossed and where. Thanks.

Well Scotishhighlands, or should I say Jim Peterson, it seems you have been outed. Take your activist BS and go back to your own forum. Don't post a "anti-IMBRA" post each day, don't urge others in your group to do the same. We are all painfully aware of the origins and ramifications of IMBRA. We will each do what we feel is right and we don't need or want you here to stir things up.

I would agree that it certainly shows a weak position in any debate if you attack the person rather than their position on the topic.




I think this thread was antagonistic. If you had a problem with them then report them and let the moderator decide.

Next time, that's what I'll do then. Sorry for the misstep.

Why are some people turning this IMBRA bs into such a big deal? It isn't, yes it sucks, but I'm over it, are you? Or do you have something to hide?

[nothing I've posted had the intended purpose of annoying or antagonizing existing members. That's the difference.]

The difference between you and me is that you are a lobbyist (activist) on this forum to make sure everyone agrees with IMBRA. You do not have a fiance or foreign boyfriend. I do have a Russian girlfriend whom I am going to want into the USA soon. I have no intention of annoying or antagonizing anyone, nor do I belong to a special interest lobbying group.

It is obvious that few people are aware, painfully or otherwise, just how much the fight against IMBRA is going to affect all of us who want to marry foreigners.

That certainly doesn't mean I would post every day.

But to suggest that this forum MUST be a forum where everyone complains about the DELAY instead of the law itself (and pro-IMBRA) lobbyists like IMBRA2005...is a bit strange.

Maybe if IMBRA2005 stopped her lobbying here...it would just be a run of the mill site where people would post only on the technicalities of the visa process.

That has been done.

Often (and I think it applies here) there are larger issues. Many see this not simply as a roadblock in their application which might cause some bit of extra time or effort, but as a slight to bigger issues of privacy or erroding of rights that could easily lead to other aspects of established rights and freedoms.

I personally agree with protecting people against violence, but I don't really care for this implementation and I don't think it will change much.

[Next time, that's what I'll do then. Sorry for the misstep.]

Oh, that is rich. A lobbyist from the organization that wrote the IMBRA law...complaining to the moderator of an immigration site that people who want their fiances to come to the USA shouldn't come on the forum who disagree with her...when she seems to constantly cheer for IMBRA on the forum herself.

For the last time, I am neither a lobbyist nor activist and nobody (individual or group) is paying me or asked me to post here.

IMBRA2005,

1) Why do you have no information posted about any fiance or foreign significant other?

2) Why do you come on an immigration forum calling yourself the name of the law that is screwing up the lives of everyone else on this forum?

(1) Because I choose not to share personal information about myself on the internet.

(2) Because I had a hard time coming up with a name when I decided to post for the first time about 5 weeks ago, and that was the topic being discussed. Again, I don't like to share personal information about myself.

IMBRA2005, just stop arguing with this looser. He will be gone soon I think. Attacks from other forums is not cool and they are not worth our time. Just ignore them.

If it's just a name you chose because it was being discussed that day, why have all of your posts going back to May 30 all been on this topic? You don't post on any other topic.



Is he a loser because you disagree with him? If he gets banned, then they both should.

Okay Gary. I will stop.

John, I only post about those things that I think will be useful to others and about which I have some knowledge and understanding. I do know quite a bit about IMBRA so that's what I talk about here. I suppose if there was a forum here talking about the other things I know quite a bit about and have an interest in (e.g. sailing or medicine) I suppose I might speak up about those too.

Look, like I said, if you guys don't want me around, then fine, I'm out.

I just think the personal attacks are petty. I see them on so many threads. You come here because you have some point of view that you want to offer. Well guess what ... the guy you are assailing with this thread is doing EXACTLY the same thing. You tried to gather support from others with your post. He is doing EXACTLY the same thing. You are on opposite sides of the fence on this topic. Does that make you right and him wrong? Perhaps it does in your mind. He may be thinking EXACTLY the same thing. If you expect others to respect your right to voice your opinion and gather support, afford others the same cosideration.

[Okay Gary. I will stop. John, I only post about those things that I think will be useful to others and about which I have some knowledge and understanding. I do know quite a bit about IMBRA so that's what I talk about here. I suppose if there was a forum here talking about the other things I know quite a bit about and have an interest in (e.g. sailing or medicine) I suppose I might speak up about those too.

Look, like I said, if you guys don't want me around, then fine, I'm out.]

Well, if IMBRA2005 stops lobbying for IMBRA on this forum, then I won't bother logging on to rebutt her remarks. I was just shocked earlier today when I saw her trying to lead people like sheep into reaching a "consensus" of being only upset at the "procedural delays" instead of the law itself.

But I don't believe for a second that IMBRA2005 isn't part of an organization like TJC that earns its money from donations "to protect women" and unashamedly trolls the Internet practically declaring who they are.

This "I do know quite a bit about IMBRA"...what is that supposed to mean?

Exactly how does she know more than the rest of us? The answer is that, like me, she is probably deeply involved in the lawsuit process regarding IMBRA.

I don't doubt that IMBRA2005 knows as much as I do about IMBRA.

Meanwhile, she is admitting that she has no foreign significant other.

GaryC: I want to marry and bring a Russian woman into the USA. Yes, I keep track of the lawsuits against IMBRA. Do you have more of a right to post complaints about how the lawsuits are causing you delays?

Is being against this law that caused the delays an "attack" against a forum that complains against the delays? I don't understand how anyone "attacked" this forum. Not even IMBRA2005 attacked the forum.

Did you really write a complaint to the moderator complaining about me and not IMBRA2005?

You, who are against the IMBRA law, are OK with someone whose very name is filled with agenda?

Does anyone really believe that she named herself IMBRA2005 because that was the topic on the day she registered?

Do you think it is OK to personally insult others with your opinion that "he's a loser"?

Don't some moderators ban those who personally insult others?

Apparently, your signing on awhile ago gives you non-loser status and the right to proclaim that those newbies who disagree with you are "losers."

At least JohnandMarlene gets it right: If people need to be banned for talking about IMBRA, then it should be at least IMBRA2005 and myself...because it is clear to all that she and I deeply disagree with each other and will be hearing from each other in the IMBRA lawsuits for a long time to come.

She is, however, not someone like myself who cares about this issue because I want to bring a foreigner into the USA. That makes her a lobbyist.

And then...what about the guy Dave who posted an anti-IMBRA thread? Should he be banned as well because GaryC doesn't agree with him?

And what about the 5 or 6 guys currently involved in IMBRA lawsuits who now know that this site exists?

They all want to bring someone into the country and are knowledgable about the immigration process.

Should the moderator now keep an eye out for non-Garys who want to fight IMBRA in the courts?

In the end, moderators almost always go with how they feel themselves about an issue. They seldom ban people for personally insulting others which GaryC and IMBRA2005 have just done.

I never personally insult others on a forum. I might insult the President for signing the law, but I don't insult others on a forum, period.

That is just good Internet forum policy.

Let him rant. I just got my IMBRA RFE today. I will fill it out, send it in and then my petition will procede as before. IMBRA does not stop honest people from bringing in their loved ones. It only informs the fiance of a dangerous USC. The only ones that have anything to worry about are the criminals that have something to hide. I wonder if that is why he is so upset? Just wondering, not accusing.

Gary, I hope you are right about IMBRA not stopping honest people from bringing in their loved ones. But I don't think anyone knows for sure how long of a delay this will cause and how many marriages will be sabotaged as result of IMBRA. My understanding is that 11,000 visa petitions are on hold "indefinitely". I hope this will not translate into 1 or 2 year delays, in which case, I can see a good number of engagements being broken off.............................................................................
......................................................... This IMBRA is so vague, overly broad and poorly written that its implementation has been a nightmare, as expected. Now, I am sure that the IMBRA proponents realized this, but they pushed it through Congress anyway and unfortunately, it is having the desired effect of "chilling" international romances. IMBRA seems like a scornful feminist agenda designed to keep older, wealthier American men from marrying a much younger foreign woman.

Well, I guess as a scornful feminist myself, my problem with Jim & Co. waxing political on this forum is that we're all supposed to be here to share support and be a resource for one another. All of us. Male and female. Yet I get the feeling that if I post needing help or support, Jim & Co. will probably just call me fat and ugly, blame me for all the things they don't like about the world, and tell me that if I really want to do something besides feeling sorry for myself, I should fight radical feminism and support the God-given right of American men to marry foreign women because men are the ones who are really being treated unfairly.

No offense to the American guys here--I like you and everything. My dad and my brother are both American men and they're awesome. But my own man is always first with me, and that's what I'm thinking about when I get frustrated about IMBRA--not about whether you are being deprived of right to marry women foreign women.

And I don't really care about whether women in other countries might be younger or prettier than I am, either. I don't care if American men would rather marry one of them, than a fat-bottomed brunette American gal like me. Hell, you can marry ostriches or wheelbarrows as far as I'm concerned, if that will make you happy.

I just don't want my government jerking me and my sweetheart around--and on my tab, yet!

You know what I mean? Yeah, I thought so, because I know you're going through the same thing right now! I come here to talk to people who know what I'm going through, just like you do--not to get involved in some gender war. And I don't think that Jim & Co. really get that about this forum.

Can Jim and his friends show me that I'm wrong about them? If they can't, I think we'd all prefer it if they stayed on their own forum, where people log on for the purpose of hearing their views.

tigre, te amo.
I want you to be my lawyer when I need one.

[Well, I guess as a scornful feminist myself, my problem with Jim & Co. waxing political on this forum is that we're all supposed to be here to share support and be a resource for one another. All of us. Male and female. Yet I get the feeling that if I post needing help or support, Jim & Co. will probably just call me fat and ugly]

Tigre: Jim would be the first to help you find a free lawyer to sue the government so Dan can come from England. It is nonsense to see anything misogynist in what he wrote (he cannot stand American victim feminists but who can?). Fact is the victim feminists, a significant minority of mostly those over 40, got the IMBRA law passed because they are insecure about men their own age taking younger partners. Go to other forums and these activists will confirm this to you. The law was a cry in the dark. But the strange politics of the Iraq War and the crucial "Security Mom" support for the war has created a volatile situation where men who date foreign women are under heavy attack. Since this includes US soldiers who are among the biggest customers of "mail order bride sites"...there is going to be backlash.

And women here are "victims" of IMBRA. It doesn't help the spirit of "helping each other" to then distance yourself from men who use marriage agencies and say that you don't care about them. You are in the same boat. Gay men who want their gay partners to come from England...are also in the same boat.

Also...it is the 4th of July Weekend. Jim is going to be the next 10 days in Europe and then he will be busy with the upcoming lawsuit against the IMBRA form. So regulars here who didn't agree with him shouldn't flatter themselves with talk of who "deserves" to be here or not.

One thing Jim never does on any IMBRA forum is personally insult anyone else on the forum. The moment someone personally insults another on a forum, it means he or she has lost an argument and wants to settle it by other means.

[It only informs the fiance of a dangerous USC. The only ones that have anything to worry about are the criminals that have something to hide.]

We could only wish that it "ONLY" informs the fiance of a "dangerous" USC.

But doesn't it also "inform" the fiance that they met on an IMB?

Don't you think she knows where she met the guy?

Apparently, the government feels the need to remind the foreign woman how she met him.

Otherwise the IMB question has a more sinister meaning. It is meant as an advance threat to any American man thinking of meeting someone on the Internet...and thus the whole law chills the atmosphere of seeking foreign relationships.

And a six month background check on the American applicant? US Army Intelligence bacground checks are less than that. The law is, therefore, designed to discourage foreign marriages. Nobody who travels to Russia has a criminal record by definition, unless they lie to the Russian government.

IMBRA can be rewritten quite easily:

1) No question on the visa form about IMB or not.
2) Very short background check on American visa applicant
3) IMB must do Sex Offender check but NOT have to do the impossible and get individual approval from women who don't have email before giving her phone number to a man.
4) Government recognizes that non-fraudulent foreign marriages are good for the country and vows to speed up the visa processes overall.

With the changes, the law wouldn't face serious challenges.

now that you mention it, that does seem odd

Charles: You say that seems odd and yet, in another thread you flame someone who was simply stating the truth that IMBRA advocates who don't have foreign mates are on this website to try to influence you NOT to write your Congressman to complain about the IMBRA law itself. ;-)

IMBRA2005 wanted you to complain only that the law hasn't been implemented fast enough.

Do you see any bias there. ;-)

EnglishGarden = ScottishHighlands

I have no problem with people giving their opinions but creating multiple accounts (=spam) is a violation of the TOS.

TOSS that Salad Captain