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mybackpages
With all the discussion over the problems of marrying a Moroccan man, its easy to get lost in the voices of those who keep stressing the visa issue. My fiance and I did not meet over the internet, but it doesn't stop people (well meaning as though they well be) to transfer their own fears or genrealizations to my relationship- that he could only love me to be getting a visa. I found this article (dated 2 years back) that I think is very insightful to the complexity of marriage, morocco and foreign women.

What do you think

VOLUME 17 NUMBER 4 FALL 2004


HOW ATLAS MEN MARRY

Chatting up single women all over the world

by Sharif Erik-Soussi

The Hajj and I generally keep our conversations limited to topics of health and weather because of either his disinterest or my poor Arabic. He may, on rare occasion, ask me if I worked that day, to which any response brings an “llyawn.” May God help you in your task. So it was of considerable surprise the day he asked me to teach him how to use the Internet. I couldn’t imagine that the Hajj, the grandfather of my hosting family, would have much use or much interest in the Internet. He has, on more than one occasion, seen me answering e-mail and asked me why there was no sound coming out of my “special television.”

I asked if he knew what the Internet was.

“No,” he replied. “But my wife is dead, and I know if you know how to use the Internet, you can marry a foreign bride.”

Taza, a city of about 200,000 nestled snugly in the only pass through the middle Atlas, has the blessing of a relatively high rate of education, the curse of higher unemployment and a glut of young people. The combination often forces its citizens to get creative to ensure a future. The easiest way is generally to leave, earn your money and then come back to take advantage of the low cost of living in Taza. But it’s not that easy in Morocco. People can’t just schlep off to the big city for a couple of years to earn their nest egg. Despite the western lifestyle available in Casablanca or Marrakech, getting even menial labor requires connections that most people in Taza just don’t have. Education and experience are often meaningless.

Given this, the emigration fever runs deeply. Indeed, one of the first things I noticed upon arriving here is that everyone wants to leave. Not that this is any different than other developing countries, but it’s more profound here in that the possibility is realistic enough to be tantalizing. Most younger Moroccans speak at least one European language fluently, and often several. You have only to go to Tangier to be able to see the coast of Spain. Every summer when Moroccans living in Europe have their holiday, they are welcomed back like conquering war heroes, the EU plates on their new cars a badge of honor. This is true everywhere in Morocco, but more so in Taza.

Following September 11, few in Taza could meet the more stringent U.S. immigration criteria, for example. Suddenly, just getting your diploma and applying for a visa to France or Belgium wasn’t a realistic option any more. Emigration became much more of a forbidden fruit. It didn’t take long for Moroccans to figure out that increasingly the most efficient way–often the only way–to get to a country with a currency worth earning is through marriage. But how to meet and marry a foreign woman? Enter: Internet chatting as the responsible career path for young jobless men.

From my understanding, it’s been about 10 years since the first Internet café sprung up in Taza, funded by a returned migrant from France looking for a low-maintenance low-risk investment for his European money. This is generally the story in Morocco. Most of the investment money is either old or foreign. Owners of cyber cafés are generally working-age men from wealthy families or returned migrants. Cyber cafés are popping up in Taza about once every couple of months, but demand still outweighs supply.

During the day, the cafés are generally quiet. The patrons may number no more than a few children playing generations-old video games while café employees pirate new music or movies for sale. But after the sun goes down and the town shakes off its afternoon siesta, the true character and purpose of the cyber café is revealed. What was in daylight a poorly ventilated room of 20 or 30 decade-old computers becomes the night-time hot spot of the town’s upwardly mobile younger class of males. There are always lines out the door.

Away from the oppressive heat of the town and 5 to 8 time zones ahead of the United States, these Internet Romeos try to catch women in the dregs of their workday who like to kill time before the end of the workday. Walk into any cyber café, and the scene is pretty much the same: Arabic pop blasting on an endless loop, children hawking single cigarettes and hard-boiled eggs, and a young man in sunglasses making kissy-face to a computer screen for the web cam. It looks like a Harrah’s casino with its bank of slot machines offering jackpots to lost souls. English classes are booming in popularity as the chatters, already fluent in French, look to tap into the enormous pool of singles in the United States. Those who already know their English find day work roaming cyber cafés helping chatters phrase a few romantic sentences. Groups of young Moroccan boys forego their movies and coffee shops to hang out with the café’s owner and discuss their prospects like fly fishermen in a tackle shop. Among the locals, the word “chat” is conjugated like an Arabic verb.

In small-town Morocco, the girls are frowned on if they leave the house for anything more than chores or visiting their relatives, especially in the evenings or where young men are at play in a cyber café. Women grow up under the greater prohibition against marrying a non-Muslim–it is religiously prohibited, culturally disgraceful and illegal. But women are now entering the cyber cafés, apparently frustrated with such a lifestyle. They tend to have less formal education and are, therefore, slower to adopt the chatting procedures. They enter wearing western clothes and makeup for the web cam. Generally, they do not appear to attach the same importance to acquiring a foreign spouse; they are more motivated by the social and entertainment value of the evening. Some, however, still hold out \the vague hope that they can find an immigrant Arab or Muslim somewhere in cyberspace for the sake of their families. Older women, and especially those who are no longer virgins, are more interested in a foreign spouse because they are less marriageable within the Muslim community. A woman who never marries does not live an enviable life in the Arab world.

The act of proposing to someone you have never met may sound ridiculous to many, but in Taza it happens. Inspired by the success stories of their friends or family, they are doing so in increasing numbers. Everyone I know knows someone that has married someone through the Internet. I’ve lived in Taza for a year and I know five men who have acquired internet brides.

In the Arab world, marriage has always been more of a contract than a joining of souls. There are certain things a man is supposed to do, certain things a woman is supposed to do, and if they can both do them successfully the deal is half done. They marry for the idea of what kind of life they will have with their spouse rather than how much they love one another. Love comes later, if at all. I had initially used this as a possible explanation for why people seemed, to my amazement, to be marrying carelessly fast. But a trip to the café with some friends revealed that it was more often the American on the other side of the screen that first raised the romantic intentions. What sounded initially like an orchestrated visa-centred manipulation turned out to be little more than taking advantage of a presented opportunity.

Living in a poor city does funny things to people. The desperation and frustration of it makes them believe in miracles, something from the outside world offering you a quick and permanent fix to a troubled existence. There is a well-known story of a poor Taza girl who was working on the assembly line of a local textile factory. She caught the eye of the factory owner, who had just flown in from Germany to see how the factory was doing. They married and now she occasionally visits her village in a Mercedes.

The folklore is not all encouraging. A young man who became engaged to what he thought was a 19-year-old rich girl quit his job, broke with his family and prepared for his one-way trip to the United States. To his shock and surprise, the woman he met at the airport was a 60-something woman recently widowed who had been chatting under her granddaughter’s profile. She had come to Morocco because her pension wasn’t enough to live on in the States. Embarrassed and without options he married the woman because she was the only meal ticket he had left. They now live a hermit-like existence, she unwilling to learn Arabic, he unwilling to face his former friends.

Many of the unions seem questionable at best. Call me insensitive, but I have a hard time believing that all the young men who are now commonly seen walking around Taza holding hands with women easily old enough to be their grandmothers would be doing so if there wasn’t a visa in the deal. I would sooner call them desperate measures for desperate times, and often did. But doing so ignores the larger truth that success stories are more common than marriages that end badly. More often than not, these young men make devoted and loving husbands and, increasingly, fathers. They work, they send money home to their parents and siblings, and they live their new life with some degree of success. It remains to be seen if they will ever return to this lovely little town in eastern Morocco, but having that choice certainly beats out living here bitterly.

Over a cup of mint tea, the owner of my local store told me about his best friend, Ali, who left for Florida to marry a woman he met through a chat program. Ali has done well with two businesses, a home furnishings store and selling large Allah-emblazoned pendants to hip hop fans in Los Angeles.

I met Ali when he came back to Taza for a visit.

We talked about his business, his new life in Florida, his youth in Taza. He said he was excited to get back to Florida.

“Worried about your business?” I asked.

“No” He replied. “I miss my wife.”

“Taza will always be dear to me, but it’s not home anymore. My home now is wherever she is.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharif Erik-Soussi is a Peace Corps volunteer working in small-business development in Taza, Morocco.
Together4ever
Thanks for posting this. I think this would hold true for most of the ME/NA countries. It echoes what I saw in Egypt. I am delighted to see that it was added that these relationships, although not standard fare, often times are successful and not just "a road out".
Virtual wife
I've spent a lot of time in Morocco as my family has a compound there where we have a home away from home. I've discovered that more and more women, especially those in the cities, are looking for men over the internet. One of my aunts has done this, and an uncle's best friend met his Moroccan wife this way. Life in the small villages is lots more traditional than that in the cities, but the fact that the men are looking more out of Islam and out of Morocco for wives is a factor in driving women to also look out of Islam and out of Morocco for husbands too.
just_Jackie
That was interesting. I had to laugh during the 'internet cafe' part. Before coming to America, Mohammed owned an internet cafe in Jordan. It was like in the article, slow during the day and it would come to life in the evening. Men chatting with their American girlfriends, each one in a different stage of their relationships.

Just because the man (or woman) wants out of their country does not mean they will also want out of the marriage. Yes, some do fail but there are 2 sides to every story. I would say most of the internet marriages work because you learn to love with your heart and words.

I met Mohammed online and not regretted it for a moment. He proposed online and off I flew to the middle-east. Am I fat and stuipd? No, I am a respected business person in my community. Did he leave me after getting his 10 year greencard? No, he didn't. In fact we are closer than ever and always making plans to better our lives together.

With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.

Jackie
Together4ever
QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 02:21 PM) *

So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.

Jackie




YES YES YES YES YES YES... thank you! Beautifully stated.
ohiobuck
[quote name='just_waiting' date='Jun 24 2006, 02:41 PM' post='271861']
[quote name='jmagayreh' post='271841' date='Jun 24 2006, 02:21 PM']
So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.

Jackie
[/quote]


I agree, plus wouldn't any good husband want to do the best they can to support their wife and family. So why is it wrong for them to want a greencard and to better themselves? That will make life better not only for them but the woman and family they love. This is very human, and it makes no sense for someone to not want to better there life.

Paula

chery_fouad_forever
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 24 2006, 12:44 PM) *

With all the discussion over the problems of marrying a Moroccan man, its easy to get lost in the voices of those who keep stressing the visa issue. My fiance and I did not meet over the internet, but it doesn't stop people (well meaning as though they well be) to transfer their own fears or genrealizations to my relationship- that he could only love me to be getting a visa. I found this article (dated 2 years back) that I think is very insightful to the complexity of marriage, morocco and foreign women.

What do you think

VOLUME 17 NUMBER 4 FALL 2004


HOW ATLAS MEN MARRY

Chatting up single women all over the world

by Sharif Erik-Soussi

The Hajj and I generally keep our conversations limited to topics of health and weather because of either his disinterest or my poor Arabic. He may, on rare occasion, ask me if I worked that day, to which any response brings an “llyawn.” May God help you in your task. So it was of considerable surprise the day he asked me to teach him how to use the Internet. I couldn’t imagine that the Hajj, the grandfather of my hosting family, would have much use or much interest in the Internet. He has, on more than one occasion, seen me answering e-mail and asked me why there was no sound coming out of my “special television.”

I asked if he knew what the Internet was.

“No,” he replied. “But my wife is dead, and I know if you know how to use the Internet, you can marry a foreign bride.”

Taza, a city of about 200,000 nestled snugly in the only pass through the middle Atlas, has the blessing of a relatively high rate of education, the curse of higher unemployment and a glut of young people. The combination often forces its citizens to get creative to ensure a future. The easiest way is generally to leave, earn your money and then come back to take advantage of the low cost of living in Taza. But it’s not that easy in Morocco. People can’t just schlep off to the big city for a couple of years to earn their nest egg. Despite the western lifestyle available in Casablanca or Marrakech, getting even menial labor requires connections that most people in Taza just don’t have. Education and experience are often meaningless.

Given this, the emigration fever runs deeply. Indeed, one of the first things I noticed upon arriving here is that everyone wants to leave. Not that this is any different than other developing countries, but it’s more profound here in that the possibility is realistic enough to be tantalizing. Most younger Moroccans speak at least one European language fluently, and often several. You have only to go to Tangier to be able to see the coast of Spain. Every summer when Moroccans living in Europe have their holiday, they are welcomed back like conquering war heroes, the EU plates on their new cars a badge of honor. This is true everywhere in Morocco, but more so in Taza.

Following September 11, few in Taza could meet the more stringent U.S. immigration criteria, for example. Suddenly, just getting your diploma and applying for a visa to France or Belgium wasn’t a realistic option any more. Emigration became much more of a forbidden fruit. It didn’t take long for Moroccans to figure out that increasingly the most efficient way–often the only way–to get to a country with a currency worth earning is through marriage. But how to meet and marry a foreign woman? Enter: Internet chatting as the responsible career path for young jobless men.

From my understanding, it’s been about 10 years since the first Internet café sprung up in Taza, funded by a returned migrant from France looking for a low-maintenance low-risk investment for his European money. This is generally the story in Morocco. Most of the investment money is either old or foreign. Owners of cyber cafés are generally working-age men from wealthy families or returned migrants. Cyber cafés are popping up in Taza about once every couple of months, but demand still outweighs supply.

During the day, the cafés are generally quiet. The patrons may number no more than a few children playing generations-old video games while café employees pirate new music or movies for sale. But after the sun goes down and the town shakes off its afternoon siesta, the true character and purpose of the cyber café is revealed. What was in daylight a poorly ventilated room of 20 or 30 decade-old computers becomes the night-time hot spot of the town’s upwardly mobile younger class of males. There are always lines out the door.

Away from the oppressive heat of the town and 5 to 8 time zones ahead of the United States, these Internet Romeos try to catch women in the dregs of their workday who like to kill time before the end of the workday. Walk into any cyber café, and the scene is pretty much the same: Arabic pop blasting on an endless loop, children hawking single cigarettes and hard-boiled eggs, and a young man in sunglasses making kissy-face to a computer screen for the web cam. It looks like a Harrah’s casino with its bank of slot machines offering jackpots to lost souls. English classes are booming in popularity as the chatters, already fluent in French, look to tap into the enormous pool of singles in the United States. Those who already know their English find day work roaming cyber cafés helping chatters phrase a few romantic sentences. Groups of young Moroccan boys forego their movies and coffee shops to hang out with the café’s owner and discuss their prospects like fly fishermen in a tackle shop. Among the locals, the word “chat” is conjugated like an Arabic verb.

In small-town Morocco, the girls are frowned on if they leave the house for anything more than chores or visiting their relatives, especially in the evenings or where young men are at play in a cyber café. Women grow up under the greater prohibition against marrying a non-Muslim–it is religiously prohibited, culturally disgraceful and illegal. But women are now entering the cyber cafés, apparently frustrated with such a lifestyle. They tend to have less formal education and are, therefore, slower to adopt the chatting procedures. They enter wearing western clothes and makeup for the web cam. Generally, they do not appear to attach the same importance to acquiring a foreign spouse; they are more motivated by the social and entertainment value of the evening. Some, however, still hold out \the vague hope that they can find an immigrant Arab or Muslim somewhere in cyberspace for the sake of their families. Older women, and especially those who are no longer virgins, are more interested in a foreign spouse because they are less marriageable within the Muslim community. A woman who never marries does not live an enviable life in the Arab world.

The act of proposing to someone you have never met may sound ridiculous to many, but in Taza it happens. Inspired by the success stories of their friends or family, they are doing so in increasing numbers. Everyone I know knows someone that has married someone through the Internet. I’ve lived in Taza for a year and I know five men who have acquired internet brides.

In the Arab world, marriage has always been more of a contract than a joining of souls. There are certain things a man is supposed to do, certain things a woman is supposed to do, and if they can both do them successfully the deal is half done. They marry for the idea of what kind of life they will have with their spouse rather than how much they love one another. Love comes later, if at all. I had initially used this as a possible explanation for why people seemed, to my amazement, to be marrying carelessly fast. But a trip to the café with some friends revealed that it was more often the American on the other side of the screen that first raised the romantic intentions. What sounded initially like an orchestrated visa-centred manipulation turned out to be little more than taking advantage of a presented opportunity.

Living in a poor city does funny things to people. The desperation and frustration of it makes them believe in miracles, something from the outside world offering you a quick and permanent fix to a troubled existence. There is a well-known story of a poor Taza girl who was working on the assembly line of a local textile factory. She caught the eye of the factory owner, who had just flown in from Germany to see how the factory was doing. They married and now she occasionally visits her village in a Mercedes.

The folklore is not all encouraging. A young man who became engaged to what he thought was a 19-year-old rich girl quit his job, broke with his family and prepared for his one-way trip to the United States. To his shock and surprise, the woman he met at the airport was a 60-something woman recently widowed who had been chatting under her granddaughter’s profile. She had come to Morocco because her pension wasn’t enough to live on in the States. Embarrassed and without options he married the woman because she was the only meal ticket he had left. They now live a hermit-like existence, she unwilling to learn Arabic, he unwilling to face his former friends.

Many of the unions seem questionable at best. Call me insensitive, but I have a hard time believing that all the young men who are now commonly seen walking around Taza holding hands with women easily old enough to be their grandmothers would be doing so if there wasn’t a visa in the deal. I would sooner call them desperate measures for desperate times, and often did. But doing so ignores the larger truth that success stories are more common than marriages that end badly. More often than not, these young men make devoted and loving husbands and, increasingly, fathers. They work, they send money home to their parents and siblings, and they live their new life with some degree of success. It remains to be seen if they will ever return to this lovely little town in eastern Morocco, but having that choice certainly beats out living here bitterly.

Over a cup of mint tea, the owner of my local store told me about his best friend, Ali, who left for Florida to marry a woman he met through a chat program. Ali has done well with two businesses, a home furnishings store and selling large Allah-emblazoned pendants to hip hop fans in Los Angeles.

I met Ali when he came back to Taza for a visit.

We talked about his business, his new life in Florida, his youth in Taza. He said he was excited to get back to Florida.

“Worried about your business?” I asked.

“No” He replied. “I miss my wife.”

“Taza will always be dear to me, but it’s not home anymore. My home now is wherever she is.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharif Erik-Soussi is a Peace Corps volunteer working in small-business development in Taza, Morocco.



Well I found this very understandable. My fiance is from Taza, lol. We did meet online but both were not looking for anyone we were listening to music and just started talking because we were in the same room. And we talked everynight since then. I have visited Morocco 3 times now and the last two visits were to Taza. I did see so many cyber cafes there and when we used them they were mostly frequented by men. I myself know of 6-8 couples that their DH/DF are from Taza and still going through the visa process. People have their different views as to why I am with him, but my view is as follows. He was never married before, never had any children, and is a wonderful, caring, respectful, loving man I have ever met. His only wish in this life is to live with me and "our children" forever. He knew I have nothing but myself and my kids. His undying love is amazing. People say how do u know he isn't using u for a visa, I say because we are as one. All you have to do is look into his eyes and you know. I have been married before 2 times. once for a few years and the 2nd time for 12 years. No one in all my life has made me feel so loved like he does. Oh, I guess I got off track, lol. Sorry. Anyway, yes there are alot of cyber cafes and alot of men seeking to leave the country. But can you blame them? They just want a better life.
bornot2b
Thank you for this posting! It gives a realistic look, that in no way suggest fraud. Two ppl sharing the same dream of building something wonderful, nutured with love.
yassmine2878
I agree, thanks for posting smile.gif Well-written article, too. I enjoyed the read.
Elizabethnhenry
QUOTE(just_waiting @ Jun 24 2006, 02:41 PM) *

QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 02:21 PM) *

So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.

Jackie




YES YES YES YES YES YES... thank you! Beautifully stated.


double ditto
deeshla
QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 01:21 PM) *



With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.




I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled.

It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous.

Deeshla
Together4ever
QUOTE(deeshla @ Jun 26 2006, 06:51 PM) *

QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 01:21 PM) *



With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.




I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled.

It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous.

Deeshla



Maybe for some and not for others. Not all fingers on the hand are the same.
iceyspots
QUOTE(just_waiting @ Jun 26 2006, 07:15 PM) *

QUOTE(deeshla @ Jun 26 2006, 06:51 PM) *

QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 01:21 PM) *



With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.




I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled.

It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous.

Deeshla



Maybe for some and not for others. Not all fingers on the hand are the same.


If I had a nickel for every time I've heard "Not all fingers on the hand are the same" I'd be rich ! LOL
Together4ever
Yep, Icy, me too. But there is a wee bit of truth in it.
iceyspots
Tahya Djazayer smile.gif
landp
QUOTE(deeshla @ Jun 26 2006, 06:51 PM) *

QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 01:21 PM) *



With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.




I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled.

It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous.

Deeshla




Deeshla, just out of curiosity are you moroccan as well? Are you living in the United States? If so, how did you migrate to this country. I appreciate your thoughts, however, what I find naive is many of the middle-eastern marriages (inlcuding india), where the couple are from the same country, but for whatever the reason, the wife is left in the home country for "x" amount of time. While the husband is here frequenting american lovers and strip bars. More than not those are arranged marriages.

What are your thoughts if a muslim-american woman just wants to marry a muslim man from a muslim country with the hopes of leading a strong by faith partnership?

Just one last thought, marriage IS a parntership/business, you have to sign a contract. It is a partnership, and for the lucky ones, that includes love, caring and much understanding.
iceyspots
we in love

rarroowwwwww
Virtual wife
This article has some relevancy to the topic, imo. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Eye On The Middle East: Women, Not Just Wars, On Arab Media's Minds
News Report, Jalal Ghazi,
New America Media, Mar 14, 2006

Editor’s Note: While much attention is being paid to the war in Iraq, issues regarding women in the Middle East are also making headlines in Arab media, so reports NAM contributor Jalal Ghazi. Ghazi monitors and translates Arab media for New America Media, a project of Pacific News Service, and Link TV.


UNMARRIED ARAB WOMEN CHASTISED BY THEIR SOCIETIES

According to statistics provided by Arab media, the number of Arab women who do not get married after the age of 25 has been increasing dramatically.

“A’nes” is an Arabic word used in reference to a woman who reaches a certain age without getting married. This term has a negative connotation. Women who are labeled as “a’wanes” (plural of A’nes) generally have considerably fewer chances of getting married.

Social science expert, Hsham Hussein told Al Arabiyah Television Channel that western countries also see the marriage of older women as an odd thing, but labeling women as a’wanes in the Middle East is very harmful. Women are constrained with many social taboos and stigmas and “are not allowed to live their lives normally.”

Hussein added that the reasons behind this phenomenon might vary from one Arab country to another. People living in liberal Arab societies tend to wait longer before getting married, and they consider unmarried women to be a’wanes at a much older age than those of more conservative societies.

Statistics provided by the Ministry of Social Affairs in Lebanon indicated that 83.2 percent of women between the ages of 25-30 and 5 percent of women over 34 are unmarried. In Syria 60 percent of the women between the ages 25-29 and 2.37 percent of women over the age 34 are unmarried.

Muntaha Al Ramahi, an Al Arabeyah reporter, points out that Gulf countries have the highest rates of a’wanes. Approximately 35 percent of women in Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates are a’wanes, and so are 30 percent in Saudi Arabia and 10 percent in Oman. The age of women at which they are considered a’wanes in the Gulf was not mentioned.

Al Ramahi said that these high numbers prove that the problem is not economic because rich Gulf countries usually provide their youth with a lot of economic incentives to encourage them to get married

The lowest percentage of a’wanes is in Gaza and the West Bank. Only 1 percent of Palestinian women tend to “miss the train of marriage,” Al Ramahi said.


ARAB SOCIAL RESARCHERS BLAME WESTERN VALUES FOR PROBLEMS FACING WOMEN IN NORTH AFRICA

Tunisian social researcher, Mahdi Bin Mabruk, told Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper that women are delaying their marriage as they are getting more influenced by western values.

Mabruk said Tunisian women now aspire to achieve economic independence and liberate themselves from constraints imposed on them by their societies. “There is a change in social values,” he said. “Women have found new ways of achieving emotional satisfaction. Education and economic independence have become more important priorities than marriage”.

However, this lifestyle has a price. According to Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper, 32 percent of the Tunisian women are considered a’wanes, up from 22 percent in 1994.

Nadia is a 34 year-old Tunisian woman who works at the city municipality of Tunis. “I waited too long because I wanted to find true love,” she told Al Al-Quds Al-Arabi. “I spent seven years with a man, but he got married with a relative of his and now I have to deal with being a’nes. I regret this lifestyle because I wasted many years”

A similar pattern is happening in Algeria. According to official statistics provided by the Algerian National Academy for Statistics, 11 million Algerian women are unmarried, including five million over the age 35. About 200,000 Algerian women become a’wanes every year.

Moroccan official Ahmad Lhemi told Al-Quds Al-Arabi that he is puzzled with the unprecedented high numbers of unmarried Moroccan women, pointing out that almost all women under 24 years of age are unmarried.

Dr. Aziz Ajbilo from the center of the Demographic Studies in Morocco told Al-Quds Al-Arabi that during the 1960s, women married at an average age of 17, and men married at an average age of 24. Now the average marriage age is 28 for women and 31 for men. Ajbilo added that the rate of fertility among women has decreased from seven children in 1960 to 2.5 in 2004.

This phenomenon has also become a source of concern to many Morrocans, and some called it a disease of “Western influence.” Others point to economic problems: Moroccan men have to save enough money to provide a home and pay for the wedding, which can be a challenge for many.

According AL Arabiyah television some Moroccan women are now seeking to marry non-Arabs. This is evident by the increase in the number of “Marriage Agencies” in Morocco. A 34-year-old woman visiting the agency told Al Arabiyah TV, “I’m frustrated with the social life around me. I had a failed experiment with a Moroccan man. So I came here. Eventually I met a Frenchman and we might get married next month”.


JORDANIAN WOMEN HAVE A LONG STRUGGLE AHEAD OF THEM

The Jordanian Interior Minister, Samir Al-Habashna told the Jordanian Television that the government cannot give citizenships to the husbands or children of Jordanian women who marry non-Jordanians. “The average Jordanian family is comprised of 6 members,” he explained. “If we give this right to 80 thousand Jordanian women who marry non- Jordanians, then we are talking about half a million people who will automatically receive Jordanian citizenships.”

Jordanian lawyer Rima Abu Hassan, advocating for these women, strongly disagrees, saying “I heard Samir Al-Habashna’s justification, but the issue here is not about numbers, it is about giving women their rights. Article 6 of the Jordanian constitution says that all citizens are equal. Men and women should have equal rights.”

In case of divorce, men with foreign citizenship have the rights to take the children from their mothers. Mothers have no right to ask for their children back because their children take on their father’s citizenship.

Said Aber Al Zine, a Jordanian Television reporter, “Jordanian women are confronted with many other social problems due to the lack of rules that protect their rights and the absence of women’s voice when legislations are made.”

According the Jordanian television, the International Institute for Women's Solidarity in Jordan has received an increasing numbers of battered women. One woman told the Jordanian television that, “When I told my husband that he should work and spend his money on our daughters - not in the coffee shop - he severely beat me.”

Lawyer Rima Abu Hassan said that the government has established “Social Protection Homes” to provide safe refuge for battered women, but there are not sufficient spaces to receive all battered women, especially those with children. As a result women who are sexually abused are provided with services, and battered women are often turned away.

Many Jordanian women especially in rural areas are also victimized by “honor killings,” which are usually committed by male family members against women suspected of engaging in adultery. The Al-Quds Al- Arabi reported that 19 women were killed in honor crimes last year.

According to article 98 of the Jordanian penal code, men tend to receive a sentence ranging from three months to one year in jail for committing honor killings.


EGYPTIAN WOMEN ARE PUSHED OVER THE EDGE

Yes, women also beat their husbands! That was the conclusion of a study of spousal violence conducted by the Dialogue and Development Center in Egypt. According to Al Arabiyah Television Channel, the study analyzed all stories published about spousal abuse in Egyptian Newspapers for the last six months of 2005.

One Al Arabiyah reporter said, “The results were surprising.” It turned out that women had committed 111 crimes against men (85 homicides, 15 thefts, and 11 beatings).”In contrast men committed 172 crimes against women,(150 homicides, 13 attempted homicides, and 9 beatings).

Saed Abdel-Hafiz from the Dialogue and Development Center and who conducted the study told the Al Arabiyah television: “We always hear about women poisoning their husbands because it enables them to avoid physical confrontations, but women are also becoming more creative. Some inject their husbands with poisonous substances, while others use simple household products like hair dye.”

Although the results revealed that men were still ahead in committing crimes against their wives, the study created a lot of controversy, which was evident in the headlines in the Egyptian Newspapers. “Husbands Massacre,” “Men are victims of the Soft Hands,” and “By poison, Choking, Kicking, Boxing and Severe Beating--- Women Respond to Verbal Abuse,” are some of the headlines.

Said Abdel-Hafiz, “the study results were surprising because they reveal an increase in violence committed by women. They committed only sixty less crimes than men in a period of six months.”

Nazic Nasir, a professor of social science in the American university in Cairo, believes that women are pushed to use violence because, “they have to deal with injustices and abuses. And they have no agencies to turn to for help in getting out of their unhealthy situations.”

According to Najad Alberie, secretary general of the Democratic Development Organization, “Women beating their husbands are not a new phenomenon. Researchers tend to make mistakes because they tend to base their research on data acquired from local police departments. But men often are ashamed to make a police report if they are physically abused. In reality many men are beaten by women.”

Alberie also said that wives who are subjected to beatings have to make a police report because that is the only way for them to be able get divorced from their husbands. Husbands, on the other hand, can divorce their wives anytime they want.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_arti...23aa82519d781b4
Together4ever
Why not blame government policies for the hardships against men to remain in these countries instead of blaming western women or your men for being defectors? This is something Mohammed and I discuss often. Where ultimately does the responsibiity for this lie? Social change is inevitable. Just tossing this out as a thought. Of course we all have our opinions so it's all good.
Virtual wife
What are your thoughts if a muslim-american woman just wants to marry a muslim man from a muslim country with the hopes of leading a strong by faith partnership?

This question may have been for deeshla only, but this is what I did. I wanted to see a man in his own environment to see how he related to his family and they with him. Frankly, too many Muslim men who come to the west become spoiled and lose interest in Muslim women. They want to enjoy the freedom they have away from home and they can't have that with a practicing Muslima. A lot of the guys I went thru were looking for a "good-time" western woman, or an urfi marriage with an older woman. Some were quite open about years of sexual encounters with non-Muslim women until they were ready to settle down with a pious Muslima with a good reputation who would understand that men have their needs.

It's unrealistic to expect perfection, but to find what I was looking for, I was drawn overseas and to a place I was comfortable in. I was raised in a large, close-knit family and wanted someone who valued family and honored their parents. Now, all I have to do when my husband and I have a disagreement is tell him how much I love his mother and revere his father and he is putty in my hands! whistling.gif


Why not blame government policies for the hardships against men to remain in these countries instead of blaming western women or your men for being defectors?

It's rare for government policies to be made by women. Societies are generally governed by men. Andit's not a matter of blaming them, but if they are disdainful toward women doing what they freely do, there is a factor that has nothing to do with government policies, but double standards.
soul_encounter
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 26 2006, 10:31 PM) *

This article has some relevancy to the topic, imo. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Eye On The Middle East: Women, Not Just Wars, On Arab Media's Minds
News Report, Jalal Ghazi,
New America Media, Mar 14, 2006

Editor’s Note: While much attention is being paid to the war in Iraq, issues regarding women in the Middle East are also making headlines in Arab media, so reports NAM contributor Jalal Ghazi. Ghazi monitors and translates Arab media for New America Media, a project of Pacific News Service, and Link TV.


UNMARRIED ARAB WOMEN CHASTISED BY THEIR SOCIETIES

According to statistics provided by Arab media, the number of Arab women who do not get married after the age of 25 has been increasing dramatically.

“A’nes” is an Arabic word used in reference to a woman who reaches a certain age without getting married. This term has a negative connotation. Women who are labeled as “a’wanes” (plural of A’nes) generally have considerably fewer chances of getting married.

Social science expert, Hsham Hussein told Al Arabiyah Television Channel that western countries also see the marriage of older women as an odd thing, but labeling women as a’wanes in the Middle East is very harmful. Women are constrained with many social taboos and stigmas and “are not allowed to live their lives normally.”

Hussein added that the reasons behind this phenomenon might vary from one Arab country to another. People living in liberal Arab societies tend to wait longer before getting married, and they consider unmarried women to be a’wanes at a much older age than those of more conservative societies.

Statistics provided by the Ministry of Social Affairs in Lebanon indicated that 83.2 percent of women between the ages of 25-30 and 5 percent of women over 34 are unmarried. In Syria 60 percent of the women between the ages 25-29 and 2.37 percent of women over the age 34 are unmarried.

Muntaha Al Ramahi, an Al Arabeyah reporter, points out that Gulf countries have the highest rates of a’wanes. Approximately 35 percent of women in Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates are a’wanes, and so are 30 percent in Saudi Arabia and 10 percent in Oman. The age of women at which they are considered a’wanes in the Gulf was not mentioned.

Al Ramahi said that these high numbers prove that the problem is not economic because rich Gulf countries usually provide their youth with a lot of economic incentives to encourage them to get married

The lowest percentage of a’wanes is in Gaza and the West Bank. Only 1 percent of Palestinian women tend to “miss the train of marriage,” Al Ramahi said.


ARAB SOCIAL RESARCHERS BLAME WESTERN VALUES FOR PROBLEMS FACING WOMEN IN NORTH AFRICA

Tunisian social researcher, Mahdi Bin Mabruk, told Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper that women are delaying their marriage as they are getting more influenced by western values.

Mabruk said Tunisian women now aspire to achieve economic independence and liberate themselves from constraints imposed on them by their societies. “There is a change in social values,” he said. “Women have found new ways of achieving emotional satisfaction. Education and economic independence have become more important priorities than marriage”.

However, this lifestyle has a price. According to Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper, 32 percent of the Tunisian women are considered a’wanes, up from 22 percent in 1994.

Nadia is a 34 year-old Tunisian woman who works at the city municipality of Tunis. “I waited too long because I wanted to find true love,” she told Al Al-Quds Al-Arabi. “I spent seven years with a man, but he got married with a relative of his and now I have to deal with being a’nes. I regret this lifestyle because I wasted many years”

A similar pattern is happening in Algeria. According to official statistics provided by the Algerian National Academy for Statistics, 11 million Algerian women are unmarried, including five million over the age 35. About 200,000 Algerian women become a’wanes every year.

Moroccan official Ahmad Lhemi told Al-Quds Al-Arabi that he is puzzled with the unprecedented high numbers of unmarried Moroccan women, pointing out that almost all women under 24 years of age are unmarried.

Dr. Aziz Ajbilo from the center of the Demographic Studies in Morocco told Al-Quds Al-Arabi that during the 1960s, women married at an average age of 17, and men married at an average age of 24. Now the average marriage age is 28 for women and 31 for men. Ajbilo added that the rate of fertility among women has decreased from seven children in 1960 to 2.5 in 2004.

This phenomenon has also become a source of concern to many Morrocans, and some called it a disease of “Western influence.” Others point to economic problems: Moroccan men have to save enough money to provide a home and pay for the wedding, which can be a challenge for many.

According AL Arabiyah television some Moroccan women are now seeking to marry non-Arabs. This is evident by the increase in the number of “Marriage Agencies” in Morocco. A 34-year-old woman visiting the agency told Al Arabiyah TV, “I’m frustrated with the social life around me. I had a failed experiment with a Moroccan man. So I came here. Eventually I met a Frenchman and we might get married next month”.


JORDANIAN WOMEN HAVE A LONG STRUGGLE AHEAD OF THEM

The Jordanian Interior Minister, Samir Al-Habashna told the Jordanian Television that the government cannot give citizenships to the husbands or children of Jordanian women who marry non-Jordanians. “The average Jordanian family is comprised of 6 members,” he explained. “If we give this right to 80 thousand Jordanian women who marry non- Jordanians, then we are talking about half a million people who will automatically receive Jordanian citizenships.”

Jordanian lawyer Rima Abu Hassan, advocating for these women, strongly disagrees, saying “I heard Samir Al-Habashna’s justification, but the issue here is not about numbers, it is about giving women their rights. Article 6 of the Jordanian constitution says that all citizens are equal. Men and women should have equal rights.”

In case of divorce, men with foreign citizenship have the rights to take the children from their mothers. Mothers have no right to ask for their children back because their children take on their father’s citizenship.

Said Aber Al Zine, a Jordanian Television reporter, “Jordanian women are confronted with many other social problems due to the lack of rules that protect their rights and the absence of women’s voice when legislations are made.”

According the Jordanian television, the International Institute for Women's Solidarity in Jordan has received an increasing numbers of battered women. One woman told the Jordanian television that, “When I told my husband that he should work and spend his money on our daughters - not in the coffee shop - he severely beat me.”

Lawyer Rima Abu Hassan said that the government has established “Social Protection Homes” to provide safe refuge for battered women, but there are not sufficient spaces to receive all battered women, especially those with children. As a result women who are sexually abused are provided with services, and battered women are often turned away.

Many Jordanian women especially in rural areas are also victimized by “honor killings,” which are usually committed by male family members against women suspected of engaging in adultery. The Al-Quds Al- Arabi reported that 19 women were killed in honor crimes last year.

According to article 98 of the Jordanian penal code, men tend to receive a sentence ranging from three months to one year in jail for committing honor killings.


EGYPTIAN WOMEN ARE PUSHED OVER THE EDGE

Yes, women also beat their husbands! That was the conclusion of a study of spousal violence conducted by the Dialogue and Development Center in Egypt. According to Al Arabiyah Television Channel, the study analyzed all stories published about spousal abuse in Egyptian Newspapers for the last six months of 2005.

One Al Arabiyah reporter said, “The results were surprising.” It turned out that women had committed 111 crimes against men (85 homicides, 15 thefts, and 11 beatings).”In contrast men committed 172 crimes against women,(150 homicides, 13 attempted homicides, and 9 beatings).

Saed Abdel-Hafiz from the Dialogue and Development Center and who conducted the study told the Al Arabiyah television: “We always hear about women poisoning their husbands because it enables them to avoid physical confrontations, but women are also becoming more creative. Some inject their husbands with poisonous substances, while others use simple household products like hair dye.”

Although the results revealed that men were still ahead in committing crimes against their wives, the study created a lot of controversy, which was evident in the headlines in the Egyptian Newspapers. “Husbands Massacre,” “Men are victims of the Soft Hands,” and “By poison, Choking, Kicking, Boxing and Severe Beating--- Women Respond to Verbal Abuse,” are some of the headlines.

Said Abdel-Hafiz, “the study results were surprising because they reveal an increase in violence committed by women. They committed only sixty less crimes than men in a period of six months.”

Nazic Nasir, a professor of social science in the American university in Cairo, believes that women are pushed to use violence because, “they have to deal with injustices and abuses. And they have no agencies to turn to for help in getting out of their unhealthy situations.”

According to Najad Alberie, secretary general of the Democratic Development Organization, “Women beating their husbands are not a new phenomenon. Researchers tend to make mistakes because they tend to base their research on data acquired from local police departments. But men often are ashamed to make a police report if they are physically abused. In reality many men are beaten by women.”

Alberie also said that wives who are subjected to beatings have to make a police report because that is the only way for them to be able get divorced from their husbands. Husbands, on the other hand, can divorce their wives anytime they want.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_arti...23aa82519d781b4



*******************************
This article is great. I think the world will see a lot more drastic changes in these countries in the next few years regarding women. You know, one thing I observed in my time in morocco, was the fact that everywhere we went, it was mainly young "women" working, while there was an extraordinary amount of young "men" lazing around unemployed. When asking my fiance about this, he replied "The owners prefer to hire the women. They work hardly and take less money than a man." Hmmmm hey moroccan gals, they know you are great employees, now work on "equal pay". Too, both of my fiances sisters, ages 23 and 24 are unmarried, and neither have a desire to be married as of yet as they are both pursuing furthering education. One just turned down a male suitor and was totally supported by her family in doing so. My mother - in - law to be, is in her 50s married twice divorced twice, and guess what, has a bf...lol So cute.
deeshla
QUOTE(prena @ Jun 26 2006, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(deeshla @ Jun 26 2006, 06:51 PM) *

QUOTE(jmagayreh @ Jun 24 2006, 01:21 PM) *



With all the talk here lately about men marrying for greencards, relax. So what if he did want a greencard? He may also want a happy, loving marriage to a good woman to go along with that card. Be that person and always remember what brought you together, will keep you together.




I think that is naive. How can those two go together? I know some of these men and love is invented as they go along in an overblown romantic sort of way. Marriage, I thought, was about partnership and respect and friendship. Love and romance figure in strongly too - but this is something not easily fused in the Moroccan culture. Men and women are married in mostly arranged marriages. Western women are "outside the fold" of the Moroccan social structure and are thus "easier" and free. The religious conscience is soothed by knowing she must be a Christian, at least marginally. It is more of a business contract. Man gets a visa and a new life and access to money. Woman gets overblown romantic husband and fantasies fulfilled.

It is all very strange and I keep waiting for a sociologist to write a book about it. By the way, I personally know the man, Sharif, who wrote this article. He married a Moroccan woman and I married a Moroccan man -- so I am not throwing stones -- I just see so much of this that iit s starting to get ridculous.

Deeshla




Deeshla, just out of curiosity are you moroccan as well? Are you living in the United States? If so, how did you migrate to this country. I appreciate your thoughts, however, what I find naive is many of the middle-eastern marriages (inlcuding india), where the couple are from the same country, but for whatever the reason, the wife is left in the home country for "x" amount of time. While the husband is here frequenting american lovers and strip bars. More than not those are arranged marriages.

What are your thoughts if a muslim-american woman just wants to marry a muslim man from a muslim country with the hopes of leading a strong by faith partnership?

Just one last thought, marriage IS a parntership/business, you have to sign a contract. It is a partnership, and for the lucky ones, that includes love, caring and much understanding.


I agree with you. For the record I am an American woman married to a Moroccan man. In honesty, I believe people should get married for whatever reasons they want -- as long as there is mutual consent (seeing 13 year-olds get married in the "bled" makes me wonder about this)

I have seen really successful arranged marriages here -- where love comes later. And I have seen romantic marriages fizzle after a few years. Conversely I have seen horrible arranged marriages (women in the Moroccan countryside are considered damaged-goods after divorce) - horrible for the woman expecially... And I have seen romantic marriages grow and blossom over time (my parents!)

About strong faith by partnership - sounds good, I just hope there is more in the mix besides a common religion.

What freaks me out are internet love affairs that turn into engagements, overseas. I know this might get me hate mail and/or criticism -- but I just don't get it. That is not to say it isn't possible - if I start to break it down I see that it is possible. But after seeing all the deception in internet cafes here (it is common for me to give struggling men English lessons as they correspond with their fiancees) I feel like some women are getting shafted. But if they know what it is, really know what this contract is -- a chance for the man to get out of Morocco, etc -- then more power to them. And I believe a loving relationship could bloom from that. But this is what I think is naive - assuming that marriage = romance despite the motives on both parties.

I agree that marriage is a partnership and business contract. So much is about logistics. Love is important but it cannot sustain a marriage in my opinion - I think there needs to be a certain common ground, an ability to really live in the same space and work towards common goals. But then again I have only been married for a month so what do I know!!?? biggrin.gif
Together4ever
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 26 2006, 10:49 PM) *

Why not blame government policies for the hardships against men to remain in these countries instead of blaming western women or your men for being defectors?

It's rare for government policies to be made by women. Societies are generally governed by men. Andit's not a matter of blaming them, but if they are disdainful toward women doing what they freely do, there is a factor that has nothing to do with government policies, but double standards.


Just to clarify, I was not stating women made or should make policies. I meant, why not look to the governments and their policies for the hardships created FOR the men in the societies so they would not be so eager to "defect". I don't want to get into a big thing over this. Just clarifying what I actually said.
seriks
I don’t know if anyone is still reading this post, but I just recently googled myself and was surprised to see my article as the subject of so much discussion. I wrote this article just as I was leaving Morocco about two years ago. Thanks to all for the positive feedback.
Some of you mentioned that this is was a sociological phenomena that someone should write a book about. I couldn’t agree more, and while I’m not a terribly serious writer, that was part of my intention with this article. I had just noticed something peculiar about the society that I was living in, and I wanted to document it. The descriptions and explanations that I had offered were the result of my observations and opinions, not any sort of psychiatric or sociological research. Although, in the years that have passed since I wrote this article, it seems to have become a much hotter topic. Simply the fact that there is now a web forum devoted to it is proof positive of that. It seems to be a growing phenomenon as well, as communication networks improve efficiency and Americans growing more and more aware of the outside world (the silver lining of the otherwise unfortunately newsworthy events in the Mid East and North Africa). I wouldn’t be surprised to see a book or a serious study of internet relationships arise within the next couple of years. At the very least, I can see a transatlantic dating/matchmaking service popping up. Private enterprise is usually the first to surf the wave of a growing trend.
Deeshla, you mentioned that you know me, but I don’t remember that name. I’m guessing it’s a screen name. But you are correct in saying that I married a Moroccan woman. We actually just passed our second anniversary, and making all the plans (children, career, lifestyle) that accompany that territory. I didn’t meet her over the internet, she was my host-town sweetheart and actually had a rather traditional relationship over a sizable period of time before I proposed.
Not to say that as a critique of an internet marriage. As I tried to make the final point article, I don’t think there was anything markedly different in the successes of internet marriages vs “traditional ones”. While it seemed unusual to me, it wasn’t any more unusual from any of the other lifestyle differences that I got used to over there. My final realization was that to say that an Internet romance was wrong or incorrect or irresponsible would be judgmental, pure and simple. If I trust that the people who are involving themselves in an Internet relationship are responsible adults, not costing any outside party or society at large any harm, then why should their choice to do so be any of my business? Doesn’t any relationship have its share of gaps to overcome? Is it inherently more worrisome than a couple who meet in a bar, both of whom went there looking to score that evening and may or may not have been sober enough to remember the circumstances surrounding their first meeting?
I understand the concern that people would have seeing someone they cared about involved in an Internet relationship. Certainly, the idea of a fully developed and responsible relationship coming through such remote means takes a bit of a leap of faith. But considering the responses that I’ve seen so far in this posting, and from my own experiences both here and over there, successful relationships come in all shapes, sizes, structures and colors. A little concern certainly shows you care, but concern because you care and concern because you want to control can be a fine line. I have to believe that sometimes the best way to care about someone is to trust and respect their decisions.
mybackpages
QUOTE(seriks @ Oct 26 2006, 03:08 PM) *
I don't know if anyone is still reading this post, but I just recently googled myself and was surprised to see my article as the subject of so much discussion. I wrote this article just as I was leaving Morocco about two years ago. Thanks to all for the positive feedback.




Thanks for dropping in and commenting. By doing so it makes this thread alive again and at a good time in my opinion as there is a similar thread discussing similar issues. I really enjoyed the article and thinks it speaks volumes about what we often ignore when we make generalizations. rose.gif

deeshla
QUOTE(seriks @ Oct 26 2006, 03:08 PM) *

I don’t know if anyone is still reading this post, but I just recently googled myself and was surprised to see my article as the subject of so much discussion. I wrote this article just as I was leaving Morocco about two years ago. Thanks to all for the positive feedback.
Some of you mentioned that this is was a sociological phenomena that someone should write a book about. I couldn’t agree more, and while I’m not a terribly serious writer, that was part of my intention with this article. I had just noticed something peculiar about the society that I was living in, and I wanted to document it. The descriptions and explanations that I had offered were the result of my observations and opinions, not any sort of psychiatric or sociological research. Although, in the years that have passed since I wrote this article, it seems to have become a much hotter topic. Simply the fact that there is now a web forum devoted to it is proof positive of that. It seems to be a growing phenomenon as well, as communication networks improve efficiency and Americans growing more and more aware of the outside world (the silver lining of the otherwise unfortunately newsworthy events in the Mid East and North Africa). I wouldn’t be surprised to see a book or a serious study of internet relationships arise within the next couple of years. At the very least, I can see a transatlantic dating/matchmaking service popping up. Private enterprise is usually the first to surf the wave of a growing trend.
Deeshla, you mentioned that you know me, but I don’t remember that name. I’m guessing it’s a screen name. But you are correct in saying that I married a Moroccan woman. We actually just passed our second anniversary, and making all the plans (children, career, lifestyle) that accompany that territory. I didn’t meet her over the internet, she was my host-town sweetheart and actually had a rather traditional relationship over a sizable period of time before I proposed.
Not to say that as a critique of an internet marriage. As I tried to make the final point article, I don’t think there was anything markedly different in the successes of internet marriages vs “traditional ones”. While it seemed unusual to me, it wasn’t any more unusual from any of the other lifestyle differences that I got used to over there. My final realization was that to say that an Internet romance was wrong or incorrect or irresponsible would be judgmental, pure and simple. If I trust that the people who are involving themselves in an Internet relationship are responsible adults, not costing any outside party or society at large any harm, then why should their choice to do so be any of my business? Doesn’t any relationship have its share of gaps to overcome? Is it inherently more worrisome than a couple who meet in a bar, both of whom went there looking to score that evening and may or may not have been sober enough to remember the circumstances surrounding their first meeting?
I understand the concern that people would have seeing someone they cared about involved in an Internet relationship. Certainly, the idea of a fully developed and responsible relationship coming through such remote means takes a bit of a leap of faith. But considering the responses that I’ve seen so far in this posting, and from my own experiences both here and over there, successful relationships come in all shapes, sizes, structures and colors. A little concern certainly shows you care, but concern because you care and concern because you want to control can be a fine line. I have to believe that sometimes the best way to care about someone is to trust and respect their decisions.


Sharif! It is Amanda from Peace Corps. Ice cream in Fes?

I will send you a personal message.
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