My friends' husband was once again denied a visa!!!!!!!
Over a year ago he was denied a K3 due to the validity of the relationship....ie she is older than him. Her petition was returned to CIS and was reaffirmed!!!
He interviewed for the I-130 yesterday and was told by the CO he did not provide enough evidence of the marriage!!! How can this be?
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the CO give this particular petition a chance to be over come since it is an immigrant one? They have been married over 2 years now.
Any information would be greatly appreciated, especially if it is legal.
chi
Full Version: VISA DENIED 2ND TIME!!!
Sorry to hear about your friend's misfortune...That is a devastating news for the couple but I am sure she still has some legal recourses to fight this decision...At this point she must seriously look into appeal and get a professional legal advice...My prayers are with her and her husband...
You friend should consult with a lawyer. That is the best advise
[size=7]Hi Chiquita -- I am so sorry to hear the bad news! Remember, there is always hope and perhaps an attorney could help.
I was wondering -- what country is your friend's husband from?
Also you mentioned she is older than him? I would be interested to know their ages.
I hope everything will be ok!
Crystal
I was wondering -- what country is your friend's husband from?
Also you mentioned she is older than him? I would be interested to know their ages.
I hope everything will be ok!
Crystal
oh man. I am sorry for your friend. I pray they can get this matter resolved. 
The country is Morocco and there is about a 10 year or maybe more age difference.
were the interviewed by the wicked wench ?
and was it the same person the first and second time?
and was it actually "denied" this time, or just given a 221(g) and sent back to the United States for intention to revoke?
and was it the same person the first and second time?
and was it actually "denied" this time, or just given a 221(g) and sent back to the United States for intention to revoke?
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
In Morocco the specific concern is fraud.
It is true that a large age gap is a red flag, but the CO must take into consideration all evidence that is put forth. In many cases, Casa is not doing that. They do have challenges to face considering they are a high fraud post, but they are not handling them in the proper way.
It is true that a large age gap is a red flag, but the CO must take into consideration all evidence that is put forth. In many cases, Casa is not doing that. They do have challenges to face considering they are a high fraud post, but they are not handling them in the proper way.
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM) 
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
It seems the key to get through this process as smoothly as possible is building an extremely strong case. It takes a lot of forethought, which sometimes is just not possible, but I think almost every couple has a "red flag" or 2. I think if you're able to anticipate those and provide enough support to show they are not issues, then they are no longer viewed as such. This case being discussed in this thread is heart breaking and I pray they can find a way through this.
You know, we had not planned on having a big wing-ding wedding. We are quiet simple people and just want the ceremony for what it is. But we are left feeling we must make a bigger deal out of it then we want to just have to the darn PROOF to present when needed. Love is a difficult thing to prove on paper... grrr.
QUOTE(iceyspots @ Jun 8 2006, 08:09 PM)
were the interviewed by the wicked wench ?
and was it the same person the first and second time?
and was it actually "denied" this time, or just given a 221(g) and sent back to the United States for intention to revoke?
No, the women are new since we were denied last year. The first time it was Nick Snyger, older guy.
I just spoke with my friend, the CO asked about 50 questions and then said she did not believe that he married her because he loved her. The CO said she believes he married her to get a green card!!!!!!!!!!
CO wanted to know why his wife's family never came to visit Morocco!!
Husband asked what do you need from us, we will try to get it.
CO said she had enough proof of the relationship, she just doesn't believe it.
Co gave a 221g letter with nothing marked on it. No Ap, no further review, nothing.
My advice to friend:
Send e mail to Casa asking what does the letter mean.
Call Casa tomorrow and ask what does the 221g letter mean.
Follow up with representatives, which she did.
Any other suggestions?
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Like I just posted, the CO said she does not believe the husband loves the wife, he only wants a green card.
There are many many couples denied visas in Morocco when the women is older. I am one of them!!! So is my friend. There are quite a few of us. If you beleive what Rabat says, then please call them back and ask them why Casa denies most of these couples??? It started happening in 05. The reason given? "Denied due to the validity of the relationship".
Denial because of no wedding??? Where is the law that says one has to have a wedding for a valid relationship???
My husband had a 5 minute interview wherein the CO said "I need more info from America" making my husband think our file was not complete and he just needed to get some paperwork form the NVC. Liar. Our case has since been reaffirmed by CIS. My friend suffered the same fate and her case was reaffrimed as well.
We both had lots of proof of our relationships. The problem was the CO didn't want to see it. The CO just denied the visa and returned the case saying we did not establish a valid relationship.
So now we are at my friends second interview after proving to CIS that she and her husband have a real marriage and still they get the run around from Casa!!!!!!!
QUOTE(iceyspots @ Jun 8 2006, 08:27 PM)
In Morocco the specific concern is fraud.
It is true that a large age gap is a red flag, but the CO must take into consideration all evidence that is put forth. In many cases, Casa is not doing that. They do have challenges to face considering they are a high fraud post, but they are not handling them in the proper way.
I understand that. But they must have proof of fraud. This case was deneid last year (K3) reaffirmed by CIS and sent back to DOS to take action on...ie issue visa and yet Casa once again says...we don't believe it!!!
The CO MUST??????? The CO does what they want!!! Not only does the CO have the first set of evidence form the couple they have the evidence sent in from CIS and more collected from the couple since then.
This now is regarding an immigrant case which just can't be sent back, it must be shown why they won't issue the visa.
QUOTE(just_waiting @ Jun 8 2006, 09:08 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
It seems the key to get through this process as smoothly as possible is building an extremely strong case. It takes a lot of forethought, which sometimes is just not possible, but I think almost every couple has a "red flag" or 2. I think if you're able to anticipate those and provide enough support to show they are not issues, then they are no longer viewed as such. This case being discussed in this thread is heart breaking and I pray they can find a way through this.
You know, we had not planned on having a big wing-ding wedding. We are quiet simple people and just want the ceremony for what it is. But we are left feeling we must make a bigger deal out of it then we want to just have to the darn PROOF to present when needed. Love is a difficult thing to prove on paper... grrr.
I can't imgine having CIS reaffirm the case can be any stronger. They provided all the proof and still the CO says she doesn't believe he loves her. This is just her personal opinion, not a fact.
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 8 2006, 11:03 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Like I just posted, the CO said she does not believe the husband loves the wife, he only wants a green card.
There are many many couples denied visas in Morocco when the women is older. I am one of them!!! So is my friend. There are quite a few of us. If you beleive what Rabat says, then please call them back and ask them why Casa denies most of these couples??? It started happening in 05. The reason given? "Denied due to the validity of the relationship".
Denial because of no wedding??? Where is the law that says one has to have a wedding for a valid relationship???
My husband had a 5 minute interview wherein the CO said "I need more info from America" making my husband think our file was not complete and he just needed to get some paperwork form the NVC. Liar. Our case has since been reaffirmed by CIS. My friend suffered the same fate and her case was reaffrimed as well.
We both had lots of proof of our relationships. The problem was the CO didn't want to see it. The CO just denied the visa and returned the case saying we did not establish a valid relationship.
So now we are at my friends second interview after proving to CIS that she and her husband have a real marriage and still they get the run around from Casa!!!!!!!
QUOTE(iceyspots @ Jun 8 2006, 08:27 PM)
In Morocco the specific concern is fraud.
It is true that a large age gap is a red flag, but the CO must take into consideration all evidence that is put forth. In many cases, Casa is not doing that. They do have challenges to face considering they are a high fraud post, but they are not handling them in the proper way.
I understand that. But they must have proof of fraud. This case was deneid last year (K3) reaffirmed by CIS and sent back to DOS to take action on...ie issue visa and yet Casa once again says...we don't believe it!!!
The CO MUST??????? The CO does what they want!!! Not only does the CO have the first set of evidence form the couple they have the evidence sent in from CIS and more collected from the couple since then.
This now is regarding an immigrant case which just can't be sent back, it must be shown why they won't issue the visa.
QUOTE(just_waiting @ Jun 8 2006, 09:08 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
It seems the key to get through this process as smoothly as possible is building an extremely strong case. It takes a lot of forethought, which sometimes is just not possible, but I think almost every couple has a "red flag" or 2. I think if you're able to anticipate those and provide enough support to show they are not issues, then they are no longer viewed as such. This case being discussed in this thread is heart breaking and I pray they can find a way through this.
You know, we had not planned on having a big wing-ding wedding. We are quiet simple people and just want the ceremony for what it is. But we are left feeling we must make a bigger deal out of it then we want to just have to the darn PROOF to present when needed. Love is a difficult thing to prove on paper... grrr.
I can't imgine having CIS reaffirm the case can be any stronger. They provided all the proof and still the CO says she doesn't believe he loves her. This is just her personal opinion, not a fact.
See, this is what galls me. It states in the "laws" governing the Consuls that they CANNOT make a judgement based on personal opinion. They have to have proof to back it up. But how do you take them to task on it?
This is really pissing me off! Okay, so tell me. Was the I-130 or the I-129F re-affirmed? I don't think they can send it back to the CIS a second time, but if it was the other one I bet they can. Just another stupid loop hole.
I don't really know what to say I cannot imagine the devastation that they are experiencing. I am so sorry I truly wish them the best. I hope that there is something that can be done about this for them. Don't lose hope.
Sarah
Sarah
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
QUOTE(bornot2b @ Jun 9 2006, 08:07 AM)
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Okay, to deny a visa because they didn't have a wedding party is just plain stupid. I didn't have one either. Why? It took so long to get the approval that we didn't get married until the Friday before I left at 2:00. It was Ramadan and the whole thing was just plain difficult. We got married on a friday, left with his family to Marrakech on Satuday, which was already the plan, came back on Monday and flew home on tuesday. Even if we hadn't gone to Marrakech we couldn't have planned a wedding that fast.
One other point to make on this, I didn't have a wedding reception on my first wedding as well. We went to Vegas and got married. I had 4 kids with this man and was married for 15 years. Using their logic that marriage wasn't real as well. What does a party have to do with a real marriage????
Idiots!
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 8 2006, 11:03 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Like I just posted, the CO said she does not believe the husband loves the wife, he only wants a green card.
There are many many couples denied visas in Morocco when the women is older. I am one of them!!! So is my friend. There are quite a few of us. If you beleive what Rabat says, then please call them back and ask them why Casa denies most of these couples??? It started happening in 05. The reason given? "Denied due to the validity of the relationship".
Denial because of no wedding??? Where is the law that says one has to have a wedding for a valid relationship???
My husband had a 5 minute interview wherein the CO said "I need more info from America" making my husband think our file was not complete and he just needed to get some paperwork form the NVC. Liar. Our case has since been reaffirmed by CIS. My friend suffered the same fate and her case was reaffrimed as well.
We both had lots of proof of our relationships. The problem was the CO didn't want to see it. The CO just denied the visa and returned the case saying we did not establish a valid relationship.
So now we are at my friends second interview after proving to CIS that she and her husband have a real marriage and still they get the run around from Casa!!!!!!!
QUOTE(iceyspots @ Jun 8 2006, 08:27 PM)
In Morocco the specific concern is fraud.
It is true that a large age gap is a red flag, but the CO must take into consideration all evidence that is put forth. In many cases, Casa is not doing that. They do have challenges to face considering they are a high fraud post, but they are not handling them in the proper way.
I understand that. But they must have proof of fraud. This case was deneid last year (K3) reaffirmed by CIS and sent back to DOS to take action on...ie issue visa and yet Casa once again says...we don't believe it!!!
The CO MUST??????? The CO does what they want!!! Not only does the CO have the first set of evidence form the couple they have the evidence sent in from CIS and more collected from the couple since then.
This now is regarding an immigrant case which just can't be sent back, it must be shown why they won't issue the visa.
QUOTE(just_waiting @ Jun 8 2006, 09:08 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
It seems the key to get through this process as smoothly as possible is building an extremely strong case. It takes a lot of forethought, which sometimes is just not possible, but I think almost every couple has a "red flag" or 2. I think if you're able to anticipate those and provide enough support to show they are not issues, then they are no longer viewed as such. This case being discussed in this thread is heart breaking and I pray they can find a way through this.
You know, we had not planned on having a big wing-ding wedding. We are quiet simple people and just want the ceremony for what it is. But we are left feeling we must make a bigger deal out of it then we want to just have to the darn PROOF to present when needed. Love is a difficult thing to prove on paper... grrr.
I can't imgine having CIS reaffirm the case can be any stronger. They provided all the proof and still the CO says she doesn't believe he loves her. This is just her personal opinion, not a fact.
I am sure everything said here are all true BUT you must know it is traditional to have a Moroccan wedding with the family as a celebration. It is a way to prove you are married with family and friends at Morocco. My husband and I married at Morocco, we are both very simple muslim people BUT we still had a simple traditional wedding with family and friends of family to acknowledge our marriage to many people. I am sure this is what the CO had in mind because they know it is traditional at Morocco. Even if we are simple people it should have been preformed this way to make all family and friends know the marriage was accomplished. You should have photos for proofs as well.
Just my thoughts on this.
Khadija
QUOTE(Morocco4ever @ Jun 9 2006, 08:32 AM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Okay, to deny a visa because they didn't have a wedding party is just plain stupid. I didn't have one either. Why? It took so long to get the approval that we didn't get married until the Friday before I left at 2:00. It was Ramadan and the whole thing was just plain difficult. We got married on a friday, left with his family to Marrakech on Satuday, which was already the plan, came back on Monday and flew home on tuesday. Even if we hadn't gone to Marrakech we couldn't have planned a wedding that fast.
One other point to make on this, I didn't have a wedding reception on my first wedding as well. We went to Vegas and got married. I had 4 kids with this man and was married for 15 years. Using their logic that marriage wasn't real as well. What does a party have to do with a real marriage????
Idiots!
I'm sorry if you think they are idiots actually they are not, CO know exactly what to look for to determine if marriages are fraud or not. Not saying yours or mine or anyone here have fraud marriage so dont get me wrong. Its a big thing and traditional at Maroc all people there know this well. If you didnt take the time to have a small celebration with family and friends there then this is why CO feels its fraud marriage(s). Also, as muslim we do a celebration as well here in america because it is a way to tell all people, friends we are married and making a announcement as happy ocassion. This is part of Islam to us muslim people.
My thoughts
Khadija
QUOTE(Morocco4ever @ Jun 9 2006, 08:32 AM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Okay, to deny a visa because they didn't have a wedding party is just plain stupid. I didn't have one either. Why? It took so long to get the approval that we didn't get married until the Friday before I left at 2:00. It was Ramadan and the whole thing was just plain difficult. We got married on a friday, left with his family to Marrakech on Satuday, which was already the plan, came back on Monday and flew home on tuesday. Even if we hadn't gone to Marrakech we couldn't have planned a wedding that fast.
One other point to make on this, I didn't have a wedding reception on my first wedding as well. We went to Vegas and got married. I had 4 kids with this man and was married for 15 years. Using their logic that marriage wasn't real as well. What does a party have to do with a real marriage????
I AGREE!!!
One can marry here in the states by a judge and have nothing more yet they are legally married. It is the custom here to have a huge expensive wedding too, but many do not. Are these couples any less married??
Idiots!
QUOTE(Morocco4ever @ Jun 9 2006, 01:05 AM)
This is really pissing me off! Okay, so tell me. Was the I-130 or the I-129F re-affirmed? I don't think they can send it back to the CIS a second time, but if it was the other one I bet they can. Just another stupid loop hole.
The first denial was for the K3, this last one was for I-130 (CR-1 should be IR1 since they have been married over 2 years now).
The K3 is no good once denied and returned to America, then on the CIS deals only with the I-130 which was REAFFIRMED and sent back to DOS for action.
Her husband interviewed with the reaffrimed I-130.
She sent an e mail early this morning and got a response right back!! They wrote:
Dear Madam,
Thank you for your email inquiry. Your I-129f petition has been returned to the Department of Homeland Security's Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for further review. Please contact the USCIS National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283 (1-800-767-1833 for TTY calls) for additional information about your petition.
Now how stupid is that?????????? Her husband interviewed for the immigrant I-130 not the non-immigrant I-129!!! I told her to write back and let them know. I also told her to call them right away too.
OMGosh how much more can we all take???
I was hoping to get a few pointers on what to do to help her. I see I have much research to do today.
chi
QUOTE(fatimah @ Jun 9 2006, 09:55 AM)
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 8 2006, 11:03 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Like I just posted, the CO said she does not believe the husband loves the wife, he only wants a green card.
There are many many couples denied visas in Morocco when the women is older. I am one of them!!! So is my friend. There are quite a few of us. If you beleive what Rabat says, then please call them back and ask them why Casa denies most of these couples??? It started happening in 05. The reason given? "Denied due to the validity of the relationship".
Denial because of no wedding??? Where is the law that says one has to have a wedding for a valid relationship???
My husband had a 5 minute interview wherein the CO said "I need more info from America" making my husband think our file was not complete and he just needed to get some paperwork form the NVC. Liar. Our case has since been reaffirmed by CIS. My friend suffered the same fate and her case was reaffrimed as well.
We both had lots of proof of our relationships. The problem was the CO didn't want to see it. The CO just denied the visa and returned the case saying we did not establish a valid relationship.
So now we are at my friends second interview after proving to CIS that she and her husband have a real marriage and still they get the run around from Casa!!!!!!!
QUOTE(iceyspots @ Jun 8 2006, 08:27 PM)
In Morocco the specific concern is fraud.
It is true that a large age gap is a red flag, but the CO must take into consideration all evidence that is put forth. In many cases, Casa is not doing that. They do have challenges to face considering they are a high fraud post, but they are not handling them in the proper way.
I understand that. But they must have proof of fraud. This case was deneid last year (K3) reaffirmed by CIS and sent back to DOS to take action on...ie issue visa and yet Casa once again says...we don't believe it!!!
The CO MUST??????? The CO does what they want!!! Not only does the CO have the first set of evidence form the couple they have the evidence sent in from CIS and more collected from the couple since then.
This now is regarding an immigrant case which just can't be sent back, it must be shown why they won't issue the visa.
QUOTE(just_waiting @ Jun 8 2006, 09:08 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
It seems the key to get through this process as smoothly as possible is building an extremely strong case. It takes a lot of forethought, which sometimes is just not possible, but I think almost every couple has a "red flag" or 2. I think if you're able to anticipate those and provide enough support to show they are not issues, then they are no longer viewed as such. This case being discussed in this thread is heart breaking and I pray they can find a way through this.
You know, we had not planned on having a big wing-ding wedding. We are quiet simple people and just want the ceremony for what it is. But we are left feeling we must make a bigger deal out of it then we want to just have to the darn PROOF to present when needed. Love is a difficult thing to prove on paper... grrr.
I can't imgine having CIS reaffirm the case can be any stronger. They provided all the proof and still the CO says she doesn't believe he loves her. This is just her personal opinion, not a fact.
I am sure everything said here are all true BUT you must know it is traditional to have a Moroccan wedding with the family as a celebration. It is a way to prove you are married with family and friends at Morocco. My husband and I married at Morocco, we are both very simple muslim people BUT we still had a simple traditional wedding with family and friends of family to acknowledge our marriage to many people. I am sure this is what the CO had in mind because they know it is traditional at Morocco. Even if we are simple people it should have been preformed this way to make all family and friends know the marriage was accomplished. You should have photos for proofs as well.
Just my thoughts on this.
Khadija
QUOTE(Morocco4ever @ Jun 9 2006, 08:32 AM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 8 2006, 08:23 PM)
Did they specifically indicate that the denial was because that she is older than he is? My husband, who is also in Morocco, was told by a friend that he was denied because his wife is much oder than he is. I'm also quite a bit older than my husband, so I was very concerned to hear of this. I called the embassy in Rabat and the USCIS to ask if that was a valid basis for denial. They said it is not and that there must be more to it.
Later, the couple involved was told that the denial was because they hadn't had a wedding. Well, we didn't have a wedding either, but this is my second marriage, and I didn't have a wedding the first time, as well. So, now we've got a big age gap and no wedding . . . bummer!
I suppose that they have to have something to go by for evidence, especially when the couple is living apart. But the process seems to allow for the interjection of stereotypes and personal prejudices. I know several interracial marriages that sailed thru immigration, so they don't seem to care about race. I know lots of them where the man was much older than the woman, so that seems to be ok. Who knows?
Anyway, enough rambling. Don't be surprised if they come back with some other excuse for the denial. In the meantime, your friend should contact their representatives in Congress. With all the haranging about immigration in the news, legislators are becoming very sensitive to legal applicants because they don't want to be viewed as hypocrites if they support amnesty for illegals or as two-faced if they don't.
Okay, to deny a visa because they didn't have a wedding party is just plain stupid. I didn't have one either. Why? It took so long to get the approval that we didn't get married until the Friday before I left at 2:00. It was Ramadan and the whole thing was just plain difficult. We got married on a friday, left with his family to Marrakech on Satuday, which was already the plan, came back on Monday and flew home on tuesday. Even if we hadn't gone to Marrakech we couldn't have planned a wedding that fast.
One other point to make on this, I didn't have a wedding reception on my first wedding as well. We went to Vegas and got married. I had 4 kids with this man and was married for 15 years. Using their logic that marriage wasn't real as well. What does a party have to do with a real marriage????
Idiots!
I'm sorry if you think they are idiots actually they are not, CO know exactly what to look for to determine if marriages are fraud or not. Not saying yours or mine or anyone here have fraud marriage so dont get me wrong. Its a big thing and traditional at Maroc all people there know this well. If you didnt take the time to have a small celebration with family and friends there then this is why CO feels its fraud marriage(s). Also, as muslim we do a celebration as well here in america because it is a way to tell all people, friends we are married and making a announcement as happy ocassion. This is part of Islam to us muslim people.
My thoughts
Khadija
I wasn't raised Muslim, and a party isn't that important to me. In the US the main reason we have receptions is to give gifts to the couple just starting out. What could I possibly need? I don't know those people in Morocco other than his family and a couple of his friends. I would feel very uncomfortable with a bunch of strangers that I can't even converse with. How come they feel it is important to look at only the muslim tradition and culture? What about asking why they didn't have a party? They should have at least asked.
Lets not forget as Americans we have a very lousy vacation system. We don't have the ability to take off a couple of months of work to get married and have a party. Shouldn't this count for something?
I still say they are idiots. We are talking a mixed culture marriage. Times change, and one thing important to one is not necessarily important to another. This isn't a valid reason for a denial, its just another opinion.
In fact, if these people were trying to get a green card wouldn't they have already done their research and found out that these are the things the consulate looks for? Then they would make sure they followed everthing.
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 10:43 AM)
QUOTE(Morocco4ever @ Jun 9 2006, 01:05 AM)
This is really pissing me off! Okay, so tell me. Was the I-130 or the I-129F re-affirmed? I don't think they can send it back to the CIS a second time, but if it was the other one I bet they can. Just another stupid loop hole.
The first denial was for the K3, this last one was for I-130 (CR-1 should be IR1 since they have been married over 2 years now).
The K3 is no good once denied and returned to America, then on the CIS deals only with the I-130 which was REAFFIRMED and sent back to DOS for action.
Her husband interviewed with the reaffrimed I-130.
She sent an e mail early this morning and got a response right back!! They wrote:
Dear Madam,
Thank you for your email inquiry. Your I-129f petition has been returned to the Department of Homeland Security's Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for further review. Please contact the USCIS National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283 (1-800-767-1833 for TTY calls) for additional information about your petition.
Now how stupid is that?????????? Her husband interviewed for the immigrant I-130 not the non-immigrant I-129!!! I told her to write back and let them know. I also told her to call them right away too.
OMGosh how much more can we all take???
I was hoping to get a few pointers on what to do to help her. I see I have much research to do today.
chi
I wish I had some input for you, but this just blows my mind. Once the CIS sees it again they will send it back to Casa and tell them to issue the visa. The problem here isn't will they get the visa but when. This is just a stall tactic. The problem is that it will be months before the CIS has time to even look at it. Please tell your freind I am so sorry.
This is just my opinion, but the consulate should consider that a cross cultural marriage is already non-traditional so why lay the burden of proof on tradition? It's counter-logic.
QUOTE(bornot2b @ Jun 9 2006, 08:10 AM)
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
QUOTE(bornot2b @ Jun 9 2006, 08:07 AM)
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
I honestly don't think the CO has any rules or laws to follow. They are like an island unto themselves.
Her senator is checking into the most recent situation Karen and I am hoping there is a mistake. I just need to research the policy for I-130's. I want to giver her the info to fight this.
Does anyone have the number to the embassy in Rabat? Maybe if she called ther it will help.
chi
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 10:50 AM)
QUOTE(bornot2b @ Jun 9 2006, 08:10 AM)
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
QUOTE(bornot2b @ Jun 9 2006, 08:07 AM)
This is just awful!!!!! Is the petition still in Casablanca and if so, may-be this lady can go sit in her cngressman's office while he talks with the consulate about what happened here. At least they can not
use that lame excuse of what she does or does not believe. She or the consulate general will have to give facts they have based this second denial on. The congressman can at least punch holes in all these unclear
denials. To know what was written is so important but of the laws governing all these mess!!!!!!!!!!
Karen H
I honestly don't think the CO has any rules or laws to follow. They are like an island unto themselves.
Her senator is checking into the most recent situation Karen and I am hoping there is a mistake. I just need to research the policy for I-130's. I want to giver her the info to fight this.
Does anyone have the number to the embassy in Rabat? Maybe if she called ther it will help.
chi
The CO most certainly does have laws to follow... there was a link somewhere on this post about a month or so back written by a lawyer addressing just this. Does anyone here have it? It's on my old browser and I can't get to it right now.
Chi, this is my thinking remember Mary and Atif, and she went to the congressman's office. She got results.
You, see there you can be on 3 way to the consulates office, while the inquiries are being made. Things may be able to get resolved when you are dealing with the facts in the matter and not personal opinion.
Just a thought.
Karen H.
You, see there you can be on 3 way to the consulates office, while the inquiries are being made. Things may be able to get resolved when you are dealing with the facts in the matter and not personal opinion.
Just a thought.
Karen H.
This just breaks my heart for your friend. I hope she keeps fighting this. It just amazes me. There must be a requirement to be cold and heartless in their job description at Casa. I pray they get this resolved and are together soon.
Meriem
Meriem
Khadiah said:
I am sure everything said here are all true BUT you must know it is traditional to have a Moroccan wedding with the family as a celebration. It is a way to prove you are married with family and friends at Morocco. My husband and I married at Morocco, we are both very simple muslim people BUT we still had a simple traditional wedding with family and friends of family to acknowledge our marriage to many people. I am sure this is what the CO had in mind because they know it is traditional at Morocco. Even if we are simple people it should have been preformed this way to make all family and friends know the marriage was accomplished. You should have photos for proofs as well.
I spent a lot of time in Morocco before I married a Moroccan, and I know LOTS of couples who didn't have a "traditional wedding". Hecks, lots of people all over the world don't have "traditional weddings". I'm Muslim too, and I know lots of Muslims who have very simple nikahs. In fact, there are ahadith that tell us this is proper to do because to do otherwise is a waste of money that one could use to give alms.
We had a small family reception, and like someone mentioned before, we married just before I left. We registered at the adoul in Sale at 7pm and I was on a plane alone in Casa the next morning to leave at 9:30 am! We barely had time to sleep, much less to throw a fete! The rush was because the judge was trying to find any excuse to mot allow us to marry in the first place and we were down to the wire by the time our newly-hired attorney was able to convince him that if the US Embassy had validated my divorce ( a requirement), then why wouldn't he accept their word, if not my divorce decree. We did have a honeymoon in May this year.
Chi, this is my thinking remember Mary and Atif, and she went to the congressman's office. She got results.
That's what I recommend. It does get attention!
I have more to say re this issue, including how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married a woman in her forties when he was 25 and remained with her for a quarter century until her death, so we are no means a precedent. But time is short. Insha'allah, I'll be back this evening.
Salaam
I am sure everything said here are all true BUT you must know it is traditional to have a Moroccan wedding with the family as a celebration. It is a way to prove you are married with family and friends at Morocco. My husband and I married at Morocco, we are both very simple muslim people BUT we still had a simple traditional wedding with family and friends of family to acknowledge our marriage to many people. I am sure this is what the CO had in mind because they know it is traditional at Morocco. Even if we are simple people it should have been preformed this way to make all family and friends know the marriage was accomplished. You should have photos for proofs as well.
I spent a lot of time in Morocco before I married a Moroccan, and I know LOTS of couples who didn't have a "traditional wedding". Hecks, lots of people all over the world don't have "traditional weddings". I'm Muslim too, and I know lots of Muslims who have very simple nikahs. In fact, there are ahadith that tell us this is proper to do because to do otherwise is a waste of money that one could use to give alms.
We had a small family reception, and like someone mentioned before, we married just before I left. We registered at the adoul in Sale at 7pm and I was on a plane alone in Casa the next morning to leave at 9:30 am! We barely had time to sleep, much less to throw a fete! The rush was because the judge was trying to find any excuse to mot allow us to marry in the first place and we were down to the wire by the time our newly-hired attorney was able to convince him that if the US Embassy had validated my divorce ( a requirement), then why wouldn't he accept their word, if not my divorce decree. We did have a honeymoon in May this year.
Chi, this is my thinking remember Mary and Atif, and she went to the congressman's office. She got results.
That's what I recommend. It does get attention!
I have more to say re this issue, including how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married a woman in her forties when he was 25 and remained with her for a quarter century until her death, so we are no means a precedent. But time is short. Insha'allah, I'll be back this evening.
Salaam
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 9 2006, 11:25 AM)
Khadiah said:
I am sure everything said here are all true BUT you must know it is traditional to have a Moroccan wedding with the family as a celebration. It is a way to prove you are married with family and friends at Morocco. My husband and I married at Morocco, we are both very simple muslim people BUT we still had a simple traditional wedding with family and friends of family to acknowledge our marriage to many people. I am sure this is what the CO had in mind because they know it is traditional at Morocco. Even if we are simple people it should have been preformed this way to make all family and friends know the marriage was accomplished. You should have photos for proofs as well.
I spent a lot of time in Morocco before I married a Moroccan, and I know LOTS of couples who didn't have a "traditional wedding". Hecks, lots of people all over the world don't have "traditional weddings". I'm Muslim too, and I know lots of Muslims who have very simple nikahs. In fact, there are ahadith that tell us this is proper to do because to do otherwise is a waste of money that one could use to give alms.
We had a small family reception, and like someone mentioned before, we married just before I left. We registered at the adoul in Sale at 7pm and I was on a plane alone in Casa the next morning to leave at 9:30 am! We barely had time to sleep, much less to throw a fete! The rush was because the judge was trying to find any excuse to mot allow us to marry in the first place and we were down to the wire by the time our newly-hired attorney was able to convince him that if the US Embassy had validated my divorce ( a requirement), then why wouldn't he accept their word, if not my divorce decree. We did have a honeymoon in May this year.
Chi, this is my thinking remember Mary and Atif, and she went to the congressman's office. She got results.
That's what I recommend. It does get attention!
I have more to say re this issue, including how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married a woman in her forties when he was 25 and remained with her for a quarter century until her death, so we are no means a precedent. But time is short. Insha'allah, I'll be back this evening.
Salaam
Thanks for your imput. I am sure it is a stall tactic. Nonetheless they need help asap!! She notified her reps the day of the interview and is hoping to hear back from them today.
chi
szsz (Miraj I am guessing), not to throw the topic off track, but isn't your husband Egyptian?
QUOTE(rahma @ Jun 9 2006, 09:39 AM)
szsz (Miraj I am guessing), not to throw the topic off track, but isn't your husband Egyptian?
Good catch, rahma!
I'm not Miraj, tho. I'm her cousin, the one who got married in Rabat last year. She has spoken of our marriage hassles in her posts, like how I was advised not to mention to the judge that I'm Muslim AND American because they would hold the papers up for a long time insisting on conversion papers that I don't have (hint to those of you who don't know that). I don't post there, but I read it sometimes. I learned of this website from one of your posts, and, altho we have plenty of legal assistance, I thought I would post anyway just to be helpful. Thanks for that info, btw. More folks could be helped by this site. It's really great!I'm cuter than Miraj, lol!
Does any one know if the husband may have said something to trigger this CO's deision?
I feel for this person.
I feel for this person.
QUOTE(frndly1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:20 PM)
Does any one know if the husband may have said something to trigger this CO's deision?
I feel for this person.
What does that matter? This case was reaffirimed by USCIS for DOS to take action on, yet they gave the infamous 221g letter with nothing marked and verbably saying she doesn't beleive he loves his wife after being married for more than 2 years. If that is not abuse of power, I sure don't know what is. The CO is to be VERY clear in why they will not issue a visa in the case of immigrants. Yet Casa has a history for not following the laws.
I don't understand why the ppl here don't get it...why does it have to be that the couple did something wrong??????????? I know in our case and most of the denied cases the couples did nothing wrong. The problem is the CO....age difference....denied!!! Period! Case sent back to USCIS.
This is the same problem I ran into last year when I first shared what happened to us. Everyone figured we did something wrong and those who were issued visas did the right thing. I guess most will never understand until it happens to them. I am so glad there is a group to go to for support, cuz it isn't here.
You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, chiquita. There's no need to insult people who have done nothing to hurt you. If you want to fight, fight to win, not to alienate.
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 10 2006, 02:31 AM)
QUOTE(frndly1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:20 PM)
Does any one know if the husband may have said something to trigger this CO's deision?
I feel for this person.
What does that matter? This case was reaffirimed by USCIS for DOS to take action on, yet they gave the infamous 221g letter with nothing marked and verbably saying she doesn't beleive he loves his wife after being married for more than 2 years. If that is not abuse of power, I sure don't know what is. The CO is to be VERY clear in why they will not issue a visa in the case of immigrants. Yet Casa has a history for not following the laws.
I don't understand why the ppl here don't get it...why does it have to be that the couple did something wrong??????????? I know in our case and most of the denied cases the couples did nothing wrong. The problem is the CO....age difference....denied!!! Period! Case sent back to USCIS.
This is the same problem I ran into last year when I first shared what happened to us. Everyone figured we did something wrong and those who were issued visas did the right thing. I guess most will never understand until it happens to them. I am so glad there is a group to go to for support, cuz it isn't here.
you know that was a valid qustion chi. I know you are upset. VJ is a good source of support
I did not see anyone say anything offensive.
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 9 2006, 06:19 PM)
You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, chiquita. There's no need to insult people who have done nothing to hurt you. If you want to fight, fight to win, not to alienate.
I am not trying to insult anyone. It gets frustrating when the same questions keep being asked. Did he say anything wrong? I can only guess...no. He said he loves his wife and wants to be with her. He was hoping the bus he was on would just crash and kill him when he was on his way home from the consulate. My husband feels he is in exile. For what? Because there is an age difference.
I am just looking for laws to help them. I know they exist because I have read them. I was hoping someone had done some research lately and my have had the links handy.
QUOTE(shonjaved @ Jun 9 2006, 06:33 PM)
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 10 2006, 02:31 AM)
QUOTE(frndly1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:20 PM)
Does any one know if the husband may have said something to trigger this CO's deision?
I feel for this person.
What does that matter? This case was reaffirimed by USCIS for DOS to take action on, yet they gave the infamous 221g letter with nothing marked and verbably saying she doesn't beleive he loves his wife after being married for more than 2 years. If that is not abuse of power, I sure don't know what is. The CO is to be VERY clear in why they will not issue a visa in the case of immigrants. Yet Casa has a history for not following the laws.
I don't understand why the ppl here don't get it...why does it have to be that the couple did something wrong??????????? I know in our case and most of the denied cases the couples did nothing wrong. The problem is the CO....age difference....denied!!! Period! Case sent back to USCIS.
This is the same problem I ran into last year when I first shared what happened to us. Everyone figured we did something wrong and those who were issued visas did the right thing. I guess most will never understand until it happens to them. I am so glad there is a group to go to for support, cuz it isn't here.
you know that was a valid qustion chi. I know you are upset. VJ is a good source of support
I did not see anyone say anything offensive.
I know shon, but that was already asked. I am looking to help them. he was asked about 50 questions. Some were so absurd! Like why hasn't your wife's family come to visit you. Come on. Dis he know his wife was married and divorced x amount of times. Yessssss, he knows all about her. They have known each other for a long time now, just like my husband and me.
No one has been offensive, I am sorry if it apears I have been offensive, that it not my intention at all, please forgive me. I just want to help them.
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 06:18 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 9 2006, 06:19 PM)
You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, chiquita. There's no need to insult people who have done nothing to hurt you. If you want to fight, fight to win, not to alienate.
I am not trying to insult anyone. It gets frustrating when the same questions keep being asked. Did he say anything wrong? I can only guess...no. He said he loves his wife and wants to be with her. He was hoping the bus he was on would just crash and kill him when he was on his way home from the consulate. My husband feels he is in exile. For what? Because there is an age difference.
I am just looking for laws to help them. I know they exist because I have read them. I was hoping someone had done some research lately and my have had the links handy.
I think a lot of the questions being asked are purely innocent. I know I am not knowledgeable in this matter and maybe some others are not also. I think a lot of brainstorming as to why some people get denied their visas goes on here. I am pretty sure it's because they only want to help. We can only speculated as to what happen. I sincerely hope you find the information you are seeking. We got a 221g for lack of information and i know the feeling I felt was helplessness at that time.
Angel
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 07:23 PM)
I know shon, but that was already asked. I am looking to help them. he was asked about 50 questions. Some were so absurd! Like why hasn't your wife's family come to visit you. Come on. Dis he know his wife was married and divorced x amount of times. Yessssss, he knows all about her. They have known each other for a long time now, just like my husband and me.
No one has been offensive, I am sorry if it apears I have been offensive, that it not my intention at all, please forgive me. I just want to help them.
Chi,
I don't think you have been offensive. I can imagine all I want but I don't know what it is like to be in your shoes or your friends, and I am sure hearing what happened to your friend is troubling for anyone who is waiting for a second interview.
As far as the questioning, I think it is normal human instinct to try to make sense of things, whatever it may be. We try to reason away things. I think this is why the questions come in about what the husband's may have said or did. The first place to look would be the interview since that is where the 221(g) was issued. I don't think anyone means to be hurtful -- they just want to "understand" and we understand by trying to come up with a reason. With that said, I can completely understand why hearing other people try to make sense of something as inexplicable as this embassy could wear you out as your situation is stressful enough (and I am sure you have all gone through every scenario in your own minds). While I wish this didn't happen to anyone, I am glad there are others who can relate to you and you to them, because it would be a whole lot worse if each of you had to face this alone.
I hope all of you can be reunited with your loved ones soon and don't have to go through this crap a second time as your friend has unfortunately had to do.
Rebecca
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 05:31 PM)
QUOTE(frndly1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:20 PM)
Does any one know if the husband may have said something to trigger this CO's deision?
I feel for this person.
What does that matter? This case was reaffirimed by USCIS for DOS to take action on, yet they gave the infamous 221g letter with nothing marked and verbably saying she doesn't beleive he loves his wife after being married for more than 2 years. If that is not abuse of power, I sure don't know what is. The CO is to be VERY clear in why they will not issue a visa in the case of immigrants. Yet Casa has a history for not following the laws.
I don't understand why the ppl here don't get it...why does it have to be that the couple did something wrong??????????? I know in our case and most of the denied cases the couples did nothing wrong. The problem is the CO....age difference....denied!!! Period! Case sent back to USCIS.
This is the same problem I ran into last year when I first shared what happened to us. Everyone figured we did something wrong and those who were issued visas did the right thing. I guess most will never understand until it happens to them. I am so glad there is a group to go to for support, cuz it isn't here.
Nobody thought Goldenheart's fiancé said anything wrong either, but he did. Sometimes people say strange things under pressure or coercion. They really do ask a lot of questions and just wait for you to slip up on something then they eat you alive with it. It's unfortunate but true.
((((( Oh, honey))))), I'm 53 and my husband's 32, so if Casa discriminates on the basis of age, this will affect me too. Half of my family is married to immigrants, but none of us have the same circumstances or story to tell. I moved to Colorado to work for a relative's law firm and even she had to hire a lawyer to help with her husband's immigration issues!
We all care, or we wouldn't respond. The bottom line is, the process (using the word loosely) is bewildering to most of us. We're trying to be logical where logic doesn't count. You're probably beyond the realm of logic, so it all sounds like _______ to you. Please try to take it as it's meant, concern and caring for a process (using the word loosely) where we all feel powerless and somewhat abused
but we don't have to feel alone.
We all care, or we wouldn't respond. The bottom line is, the process (using the word loosely) is bewildering to most of us. We're trying to be logical where logic doesn't count. You're probably beyond the realm of logic, so it all sounds like _______ to you. Please try to take it as it's meant, concern and caring for a process (using the word loosely) where we all feel powerless and somewhat abused
but we don't have to feel alone.
Ameen.
HI chiquita,
well I just read the messages here and hm what to say. Im sorry for what happened.
But to be realistic, were you in part at the interview? Or how can you tell what she said? How she reacted, if she might said something strange...that was a red flag? How can you know? Maybe she/he doesnt know it either. And if they already got denied another visa it is imaginable that the next interview would be harder as well...cos they need to convince the officer now that they indeed love each other etc.
Just to ask, why couldnt they repeal the first denial of the K3? That might have been a better choice instead of going further and trying to get the immigration visa? Sure finally they wanna get that but first off shoudlnt they try to get an approval for the K3?
Maybe im misinformed here, but that would be my try, cos for me it would be a red flag, why they just went on and went for the immigration visa.
Isabel
well I just read the messages here and hm what to say. Im sorry for what happened.
But to be realistic, were you in part at the interview? Or how can you tell what she said? How she reacted, if she might said something strange...that was a red flag? How can you know? Maybe she/he doesnt know it either. And if they already got denied another visa it is imaginable that the next interview would be harder as well...cos they need to convince the officer now that they indeed love each other etc.
Just to ask, why couldnt they repeal the first denial of the K3? That might have been a better choice instead of going further and trying to get the immigration visa? Sure finally they wanna get that but first off shoudlnt they try to get an approval for the K3?
Maybe im misinformed here, but that would be my try, cos for me it would be a red flag, why they just went on and went for the immigration visa.
Isabel
chiquita is trying to seek information now and if anyone has information to share it would be greatly appreciated !!!!
QUOTE(Isabel @ Jun 10 2006, 05:55 AM)
HI chiquita,
well I just read the messages here and hm what to say. Im sorry for what happened.
But to be realistic, were you in part at the interview? Or how can you tell what she said? How she reacted, if she might said something strange...that was a red flag? How can you know? Maybe she/he doesnt know it either. And if they already got denied another visa it is imaginable that the next interview would be harder as well...cos they need to convince the officer now that they indeed love each other etc.
Just to ask, why couldnt they repeal the first denial of the K3? That might have been a better choice instead of going further and trying to get the immigration visa? Sure finally they wanna get that but first off shoudlnt they try to get an approval for the K3?
Maybe im misinformed here, but that would be my try, cos for me it would be a red flag, why they just went on and went for the immigration visa.
Isabel
thats valid point.
at this point all they can do is get this situation turned around. they need to seek the advise of an attorney.
thanks shon! If i am correct chiquita is looking for solutions! As i stated earlier any information is greatly appreciated!! Lets go VJ lets give this lady some solutions rather than questions.
QUOTE(angelk96 @ Jun 9 2006, 07:36 PM)
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 06:18 PM)
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 9 2006, 06:19 PM)
You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, chiquita. There's no need to insult people who have done nothing to hurt you. If you want to fight, fight to win, not to alienate.
Thanks for you concern, I really do appreciate it.
We do know why they were denied. The CO does not believe the husband loves the wife.
I am not trying to insult anyone. It gets frustrating when the same questions keep being asked. Did he say anything wrong? I can only guess...no. He said he loves his wife and wants to be with her. He was hoping the bus he was on would just crash and kill him when he was on his way home from the consulate. My husband feels he is in exile. For what? Because there is an age difference.
I am just looking for laws to help them. I know they exist because I have read them. I was hoping someone had done some research lately and my have had the links handy.
I think a lot of the questions being asked are purely innocent. I know I am not knowledgeable in this matter and maybe some others are not also. I think a lot of brainstorming as to why some people get denied their visas goes on here. I am pretty sure it's because they only want to help. We can only speculated as to what happen. I sincerely hope you find the information you are seeking. We got a 221g for lack of information and i know the feeling I felt was helplessness at that time.
Angel
QUOTE(iceyspots @ Jun 9 2006, 07:59 PM)
QUOTE(chiquita @ Jun 9 2006, 05:31 PM)
QUOTE(frndly1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:20 PM)
Does any one know if the husband may have said something to trigger this CO's deision?
I feel for this person.
What does that matter? This case was reaffirimed by USCIS for DOS to take action on, yet they gave the infamous 221g letter with nothing marked and verbably saying she doesn't beleive he loves his wife after being married for more than 2 years. If that is not abuse of power, I sure don't know what is. The CO is to be VERY clear in why they will not issue a visa in the case of immigrants. Yet Casa has a history for not following the laws.
I don't understand why the ppl here don't get it...why does it have to be that the couple did something wrong??????????? I know in our case and most of the denied cases the couples did nothing wrong. The problem is the CO....age difference....denied!!! Period! Case sent back to USCIS.
This is the same problem I ran into last year when I first shared what happened to us. Everyone figured we did something wrong and those who were issued visas did the right thing. I guess most will never understand until it happens to them. I am so glad there is a group to go to for support, cuz it isn't here.
Nobody thought Goldenheart's fiancé said anything wrong either, but he did. Sometimes people say strange things under pressure or coercion. They really do ask a lot of questions and just wait for you to slip up on something then they eat you alive with it. It's unfortunate but true.
What did GH fiancee say that was wrong? Did i miss that part?
GH fiancee mentioned the religious ceremony the next day AFTER he was put in jail.
COERCION (forcing of somebody to do something: the use of force or threats to make somebody do something against his or her will) IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE(szsz @ Jun 9 2006, 08:05 PM)
((((( Oh, honey))))), I'm 53 and my husband's 32, so if Casa discriminates on the basis of age, this will affect me too. Half of my family is married to immigrants, but none of us have the same circumstances or story to tell. I moved to Colorado to work for a relative's law firm and even she had to hire a lawyer to help with her husband's immigration issues!
We all care, or we wouldn't respond. The bottom line is, the process (using the word loosely) is bewildering to most of us. We're trying to be logical where logic doesn't count. You're probably beyond the realm of logic, so it all sounds like _______ to you. Please try to take it as it's meant, concern and caring for a process (using the word loosely) where we all feel powerless and somewhat abused
but we don't have to feel alone.I understand what you are saying. I never meant to imply that no one cared.
i am not beildered or beyond logic at all. That happened last year when we were first denied. I have since had our case reaffirnmed and feel very positive about it.
I am just trying to get the law and guidelines to help this couple. We are not powerless in this situation. At least i don't feel that way. I fought back and I won.
QUOTE(Isabel @ Jun 9 2006, 08:55 PM)
HI chiquita,
well I just read the messages here and hm what to say. Im sorry for what happened.
But to be realistic, were you in part at the interview? Or how can you tell what she said? How she reacted, if she might said something strange...that was a red flag? How can you know? Maybe she/he doesnt know it either. And if they already got denied another visa it is imaginable that the next interview would be harder as well...cos they need to convince the officer now that they indeed love each other etc.
Just to ask, why couldnt they repeal the first denial of the K3? That might have been a better choice instead of going further and trying to get the immigration visa? Sure finally they wanna get that but first off shoudlnt they try to get an approval for the K3?
Maybe im misinformed here, but that would be my try, cos for me it would be a red flag, why they just went on and went for the immigration visa.
Isabel
No I was not part of the interview. why would I need to be there to help this couple? Their case was reaffrimed by USCIS and sent back to DOS for action. That means issue the visa. But in this case the CO said she just cant believe the husband loves her. How does her believe system enter into this judgement? The relationship was proved and now USCIS was asking DOS to issue the visa. Plain and simple.
A k3 (non immigrant)visa is no longer valid once the CO denies it. It not our choice it is the law.
In oder to even file for a K3 one has to file for the I-130 Immigrant first. Once a K3 is denied the DOS and USCIS thereafter only uses the I-130 Immigrant to review.
I am hoping you understand now. All I was hoping to get was the law and guidelines for them.
QUOTE(angelk96 @ Jun 9 2006, 09:43 PM)
chiquita is trying to seek information now and if anyone has information to share it would be greatly appreciated !!!!
THANK YOU!
First, I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy. When visiting my fiance in Morocco this year, I met a couple (american woman, moroccan man, 12 year age difference, she had 3 previous divorces) and her fiance got the same interrogation about the age difference, and also her previous marriages. Evidently, she was asked to write a "reply" to the consular officers findings. In the consular officers letter of findings he had written "It is highly unusual/unlikely for a moroccan man to marry a woman so much older than himself or one who has been previously married" She did not have any legal assistance and was at a loss for what to write, so I did some research for her and used "cultural" and "religious" beliefs to be the basis to refute that officers findings. I wish I had this letter saved still, but do research to support that moroccan (muslim) men, do not see an age difference as a factor in marriage or the woman having been previously married. In short, Mohammeds first and great love of his life was Khadija whom he met at the age of 25 and when she was 40. She had been previously married as well. While she was alive, he did not take any other wives. It is hard for any consular to argue with something, modeled after that persons prophet.
QUOTE(soul_encounter @ Jun 10 2006, 08:53 AM)
First, I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy. When visiting my fiance in Morocco this year, I met a couple (american woman, moroccan man, 12 year age difference, she had 3 previous divorces) and her fiance got the same interrogation about the age difference, and also her previous marriages. Evidently, she was asked to write a "reply" to the consular officers findings. In the consular officers letter of findings he had written "It is highly unusual/unlikely for a moroccan man to marry a woman so much older than himself or one who has been previously married" She did not have any legal assistance and was at a loss for what to write, so I did some research for her and used "cultural" and "religious" beliefs to be the basis to refute that officers findings. I wish I had this letter saved still, but do research to support that moroccan (muslim) men, do not see an age difference as a factor in marriage or the woman having been previously married. In short, Mohammeds first and great love of his life was Khadija whom he met at the age of 25 and when she was 40. She had been previously married as well. While she was alive, he did not take any other wives. It is hard for any consular to argue with something, modeled after that persons prophet.
Yes, we know that. Thanks so much for the reply!
Chi...has your friend tried contacting the consulate directly? I know a lot of times this is a fruitless effort, but it can be done as I did in the beginning of this mess (not that I got positive results). Also have her congressman contact them like Mary's did. I would be hiring an attorney immediately as well.
Yes the age difference is a HUGE issue with Casa...szsz, you posted your age difference earlier. Believe me, this WILL be an issue wuth Casa and you need to be prepared for it. There is a 9 year age difference between my SO and me...this is exactly why our petition was returned. This is a red flag that Casa will use to their advantage, Chi and other members like us have seen it time and time again in Morocco, we are living this reality.
I just can't imagine going through all this and having them deny it again...and for a stupid reason like "I don't believe your husband loves you." Casa does not follow the regulations
I can tell you this, your friend needs to get her congressman involved...somone further up mentioned congress not wanting to look hypocritical in the middle of this illegal immigration crap and that is soooo correct.
You are correct, this is an absolute abuse of power...I do not care what anyone else says. Those of us who have been affected like this know exactly what is going on in Morocco. This is not just a simple case of they need training to spot marriage fraud...they do have this training. The abuse of power here has got to be addressed...I know a lot of us are afraid to address this for fear of being singled out when our husband gets another interview in Casa. I am not even sure anymore this is a message that Casa is sending out to the DOS/DHS. Something needs to be done at a higher level in a way that does not single out one case or couple.
I pray for your friend and her husband...I cannot imagine being denied again after going through this process of petition being returned. It is just infathomable. I would be very interested in finding out about your friend contacting congress and what happens with that avenue. I certainly would not hesitate in contacting the consulate in Casa myself...then contacting the embassy Rabat.
~Kiya~
Yes the age difference is a HUGE issue with Casa...szsz, you posted your age difference earlier. Believe me, this WILL be an issue wuth Casa and you need to be prepared for it. There is a 9 year age difference between my SO and me...this is exactly why our petition was returned. This is a red flag that Casa will use to their advantage, Chi and other members like us have seen it time and time again in Morocco, we are living this reality.
I just can't imagine going through all this and having them deny it again...and for a stupid reason like "I don't believe your husband loves you." Casa does not follow the regulations
I can tell you this, your friend needs to get her congressman involved...somone further up mentioned congress not wanting to look hypocritical in the middle of this illegal immigration crap and that is soooo correct.
You are correct, this is an absolute abuse of power...I do not care what anyone else says. Those of us who have been affected like this know exactly what is going on in Morocco. This is not just a simple case of they need training to spot marriage fraud...they do have this training. The abuse of power here has got to be addressed...I know a lot of us are afraid to address this for fear of being singled out when our husband gets another interview in Casa. I am not even sure anymore this is a message that Casa is sending out to the DOS/DHS. Something needs to be done at a higher level in a way that does not single out one case or couple.
I pray for your friend and her husband...I cannot imagine being denied again after going through this process of petition being returned. It is just infathomable. I would be very interested in finding out about your friend contacting congress and what happens with that avenue. I certainly would not hesitate in contacting the consulate in Casa myself...then contacting the embassy Rabat.
~Kiya~
Chiquita, I am so sorry for asking a dang on question. I read the post and it said that he was asked about 50 questions then the CO denied so I asked if possible something was said that may have triggered this reaction from the CO.
I don't speak much on these bo
I don't speak much on these bo