Hi,


Before people jump to conclusions, make assumptions and make fun of me for what is going on, if you have the time, please read what I’m writing and maybe you will understand this issue.

In the summer of 2006 my mother, brother and I went on a trip to Armenia so I can meet my mother’s family. In Armenia I met a girl I fell deeply in love with. In denial that I was in love with her, I would always tell myself, “No, that’s wrong, don’t think that, etc.” Because I was staying at her family’s house, I grew deeper in love with this woman. At the time she was 19 and I was 18 (I am now 20 and she is 21).

I came back home to the U.S. in denial, yet couldn’t believe that I was in love with her. I had to see her one last time though, before I went on with my life (or at least try to). One year went by in agony, and in the summer of 2007 I went back “to see my family.” In all actuality, it was to see her and only her. No one else mattered to me. While I was there she kissed me in a way “she’s not supposed to.” Then began to apologize and cry, and I asked her what’s wrong.

She told me that she has fallen in love with me and she can’t help it. She thought by saying that I would never talk to her again, but I told her not to worry, because I had fallen deeply in love with her also.

At first we talked about how we will never forget each another, and we are deeply in love, but we can’t be together because of what family would say.

Three weeks went by and I did a lot of research on the internet and found out what I was experiencing is NOT abnormal, it is actually pretty common. It is common for relatives (in our case, first cousins) to meet for the first time or reunite after years of not seeing each another and fall in love. It’s a phenomenon called ‘genetic sexual attraction.’

Contrary to what we have learned in society (I also), the offspring of cousins has a very minimal risk in increasing chances for a birth defect, it is equal to a 40 year old female to have a child.

And like that, after three weeks I thought to myself, “Forget what other people think, I don’t care, I love her and it is no one's business!” We discussed it and decided the only way to be together is to get married (not to mention the fact that both of us were crazy for each another, even after a year).

With little research about Armenian law, and after a daunting task, we got married. After coming back to the United States I consulted with a lawyer and he said I’m probably going to end up having problems. After I researched Armenian family law, I found out that this:

i) Cousin marriages are not allowed
ii) Cousin marriages will be considered invalid if they will be brought up to the courts for a consideration
iii) Cousin marriages will only be considered valid if she is pregnant or a child is already born
iv) Any marriage CAN be considered valid if deemed by the court

Now you see my problem? I we must’ve slipped through the cracks, because I am a naturalized U.S. citizen, I was born in Armenia. We did not lie on anything, no forms asked if we are related and it was not asked to us verbally either.

After reading this I was devastated, I didn’t know what to do. Someone recommended me to go to Canada, she come to Canada and we get married here. I contacted an attorney in Canada, and explained my situation and she said that is just fine, she could help me out with it and it will be a no problem job.

So like that, as a 19 year old, busting my butt working 50 hours a week AND a full time college student I came to Canada as a student for one year. After six months of being here she was denied entry because a study permit has already been issued to me.

I’ve pretty much spent my life savings on this (about 10 thousand dollars) and now I’m at a dead halt. I’m beginning to become depressed as I know I have a long road ahead of me if I am forced to go to Armenia and flee with her from there. Her brother saw a picture of us that looked a little “risky” and told me that if anything is going on between us two I am a dead man.

I am in serious need of legal help and am desperate. I only have a couple thousand dollars left of student loans and my car which I will sell if I need more funds. I have worked all throughout high school, I never receive a dime from my parents (I come from a fairly poor family). It is difficult surviving the way it is, yet all the costs. I’m 20 years old and I raised some money by selling my motorcycles (I started racing motocross at 16 after I was able to earn money).

What do I need to do? How can I prove to the embassy that this is not a sham? She is the only thing helping me cling on to life right now, if I new she wasn’t in my future my fingers would slip and I would be gone.

I am willing to do anything. I have found some contacts in Armenia that will allow me to live in their home temporarily. If need be, I can move to Armenia and flee with her until things are sorted out, if need be, I can go to Armenia, officially nullify our marriage, flee to a country such as Egypt or Jordan where cousin marriages are legal and get married over there. I will do anything!

I am desperate, and there is no way I can turn to family for help .

If anyone knows of any good attorney, or an attorney that has experience with an issue like this, please let me know.

I am on the brink of just selling my vehicle, flying to Armenia and fleeing from there, and I know that this would NOT be a smart move on my part, at least for the long-run.

Hi capsule,

I am srry you are oing through this ordeal. I will not say I completely understand or appreciate what you and your wife are going through beceause I do not fully understand the concept of marrriage through family. However, if you really do love this woman, all I can offer you is hope that whatever is God's wishes will happen with you and your wife. I agree that you should contact a lawyer and see what your options are.

That's okay, I'm not expecting many people to understand anything. It's something that I quite possibly would not have understood had this not happened to me. It took me a year to be out of denial with myself because I "thought" it was so wrong. And unless one is put in that situation, I don't think they will ever completely understand.

This is someone that to me, did not even exist several years ago. I have cousins from my father's side of the family that I grew up with and never in my mind would something go through.

There's a message board for people who ended up in situations like me, if you go through the forum on the site and read how people fell in love with their cousins, RARELY if ever would you see a couple saying that they grew up together. Almost all met each another the first time when they were adults or were reunited since they were little kids.

And I bet if you go up just a couple generations in all of our family histories that we will see how much more common this phenomenon is.

Believe me, I am not one for judgement, I have no room or place. I am only trying to understand more of your situation and I would understand if you do not want to share more because it is a sensitive issue.

Best of luck to you and yours and I apologize for any pre-judgement.

Contrary to what you will probably hear, relationships with first cousins is fairly common in some South Asia countries. There are some extensions in my hubbys family that are cousins. I wish I could offer some advice in the legalities of it for you. Good luck. And you have to live your life for you. No one else.

You have a difficult case ahead of you. Consult an immigration attorney at once.

For those that choose to pass judgement, Don't. This person is seeking immigration advice only.

The Mods are on top of this thread.

Best of luck. I only wish I could understand more of the background, after all, I am watching "Rat Race"

I'm beginning to lose hope day by day.

Her parents are trying to force her to marry some rich dirt bag in Armenia, it is killing me to hear that. Imagine someone who comes around to the person you love and wants to marry them and their parents are forcing them to marry them.

It kills me every time this happens.

I swear, if it wasn't for her I would be dead right now. I can't believe that a couple imaginary lines on a map and some laws are keeping me from being with the person I love!

I'm sure you've all been in a stressful situation of wondering if you will be approved or not, you've all gone through some of the feelings I'm going through right now. I cry as I write this, the first year I came back while I was still in denial that I was in love with her, I couldn't handle it anymore, I purposely ran in front of a car, and thought to myself that it would be wrong of me to emotionally hurt another person for my selfishness, and after that one time I never did that again. I can't turn to ANY Armenians in Armenia or even here for help, they all have their prejudices, biases and assumptions like none other.

I could care less about my parents "disowning" me, and I know it's going to happen soon, same on her side.

Every time I've consulted a lawyer, I've just spent hundreds of dollars for an hour of "discussion" leaving more hopeless than I got there, does anyone know any good lawyers that will be willing to help? I am willing to leave my life here and give up my citizenship and move over there to be with her, but I know if that was to happen I would put her life in danger and I know I will surely be killed.

I am so sorry you have gone through this. Be advised even of those who have not been in your exact situation have not had the the easy life. YOU have to do with what is best for YOU and if that means finding the best lawyer who is best for both of you, so be it. You have not been the first through it, nor the last. My prayers go out to both of you,

I can't really help with immigration or family law at all, sorry. I just wanted to say that I hope you won't put yourself in harms way. Be safe while you work things out.

[quote name='Jack and Barbara' date='Jul 6 2008, 12:12 AM' post='1990037']
I am so sorry you have gone through this. Be advised even of those who have not been in your exact situation have not had the the easy life. YOU have to do with what is best for YOU and if that means finding the best lawyer who is best for both of you, so be it. You have not been the first through it, nor the last. My prayers go out to both of you,
[/quote

Does she have any work experience, maybe she and you could get working visas to a different country like Australia, then get married there? Or get student visas to the same city college? There has to be some coutries that you can marry a cousin in?
Good luck and maybe try a Immigration lawyer who knows the Armenia laws.

May God Bless you with you the right advice Take some time to read through all of the posts. It might seem impossible at first, but even though the rest had to go through much hardship, it must be worth it in the end, right?

Marriages among cousins are actually quite common in some countries.

In the past, a lot of Asian families arranged marriages among cousins, though it's generally discouraged this days, the laws in most Asian countries don't prohibit it.

In fact, there are a few older relatives in my family who are married to cousins! My aunt who is in her 60s is one of them.

Leah

I hope I understood what you exactly talking about! your story is long and I read it fast, so I hope I didn't miss something I really liked the fact that you're ready to do anything to win your love...

From the quote above... you said the Armenian Law... did you mean the American law? if you meant the US. so it depends on which state you're living in! Check This... but if that is the problem so just move to another state... not to CANADA!
but if you meant the ARMENIAN law... so the problem that you faced was that your marriage in Armenia was INVALID and haven't been accepted by the US. just because it's not lawful in Armenia. [ in this case
Why you didn't try K1 visa? ]

Well, I've read that you considered coming to Egypt or Jordan... tell you what! Egypt is the easiest place for someone to get married... but here is some problems you might face...

(1) as you're a US. Citizen, did you give up your Armenian nationality or you have a dual citizenship? 'cause you and your girl have to be holders of the same nationality if you're considering getting married outside of Armenia or the US.

(2) I'm not sure if you have to go through the Armenian embassy if you wanted to get married here and get a affidavits or something from there...! 'cause the Armenian embassy is NOT going to issue these affidavits as long as cousin marriages is prohibited by the Armenian Law!... [ these affidavits will be required by the Egyptian court to proceed with the marriage. ] I'm also unsure that there's Armenian embassy in Egypt!

I wish you a good luck...

I cannot give you any suggestions.. All I could say is that do not loose hope. Just hang in there and maybe you will see some light at the end of the tunnel. I wish that God would send someone to help you in this kind of situation. Things happen for a reason. Have faith! Good Luck..

After re-reading the original post, I see that they are already married. Ergo he needs to file to bring a foreign relative to the US. The problem, of course, is that Armenia will possibly deny it because of the relationship between him and his wife. The US will likely not be the problem...it'll be the Armenian side.

Unfortunately, I don't know what to tell you, other than what everyone else has already said....immigration attorney, etc.

Good luck.

Hi,
I want to wish u good luck and say a prayer for u.........
i dont know the law in Armenia, or even the law in the USA about this for that matter but i do know that places like Pakistan, India, Egypt and a few other countries first cousins do marry and there have been USA citizens that have gone home to the countries that they have citizenship with as well as USA citizenship married their first cousin and brought them back to the USA.......it is correct for the most part first cousins can not marry in the USA.......how ever it looks like from what i have read if the country of the spouse allows for first cousins marraige then in the end most are allowed to bring the wife or husband back to the states because that law (and im sure someone will correct me if im wrong but that law about marraige IN the USA to a first cousin only effects the couple if they are to marry here and that the USA for the most part has to abide by the law of the country that the marraige occurred in

another thing i would like to ask is does anyone in ur family know that the two of u are married? and since ur married then i am only assuming that it must be legal in Armenia

I also wanted to add that u really do need to talk to a really good immigration attorney i personally am not an advocate for the use of attorneys for immigration but because of the special needs of ur case it is probably ur best option to find out what the law really is and how to go about bringing ur wife to the USA...good luck

If the marriage is not considered legal in the country in which it took place, then a marriage based visa to the US would not be possible. If they petitioned and applied now, it would open up all kinds of worms. Their marriage would likely be nulified, once it is discovered to be illegal, would it not?

It's quite normal for cousins to marry in many countries. We are raised to beleive it is forbidden which causes a hurdle for many to overcome when faced with issues as yours. Hope you can find a solution. Best wishes.

Here is a list of states and what they say about first cousin marriages: http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/a/cousin.htm



Maybe you could get her to the USA on a tourist visa, get married there, and then after she goes back home file for a K-3?

They're already married....

And by the laws of the country they got married in, their marriage is not considered to be valid.
Reba said this:
If the marriage is not considered legal in the country in which it took place, then a marriage based visa to the US would not be possible.

Therefore, I suggested they could get married in the United States in one of the states that would consider such marriage to be valid and then they could apply for a K-3 with no problem.

They'd have to have it officially nullified in Armenia first, though.

Hi Capsule, I agree with previous posters that you are definitely in need of a decent immigration attorney (at US one, if the idea is to live together in the US) to help you sort this out, before you go any further. Maybe you can first inquire whether they can help you before you spend alot of money for a first consultation.

But this is what I gathered from your post, and these seem to be the most important questions at hand. Please correct me if I misunderstood:
- You said you guys already got married. I assume in Armenia?
I also assume that you got married secretly, and that your family doesn't know?
- If you did get married, then (unless in Armenia polygamy is accepted) there is no way your wife can (be forced to) get married to anyone else in Armenia, without first having the first marriage annulled or getting a divorce. I assume that once they go to city hall to file for that marriage, it would be noticed (I do not know how this works in Armenia).
- You say that after you were married, you found out that legally you shouldn't have been able to get married, considering the blood ties that bind you.
- If I am not mistaken, this makes your marriage annullable. But until the annullment happens, at this moment you definitely ARE married. (At least that is how it works here.)
- Maybe there are even waivers possible, under Armenian law (other than the woman being pregnant). But again this differs from country to country. And I would think that the waiver would be requested before the marriage takes place.
- I do not understand the reasoning for going to Canada and getting married (again) there. Please make very sure that that will not create extra problems. If you are legally married in Armenia (until someone would invoke the nullity), I would think that you could not get married again in Canada... Again maybe I am wrong. Definitely discuss this with the Canadian attorney you mentioned, and ask her about how you could get married in Canada if you were already married in Armenia.
- So since you are now married, have you already filed for K-3 visa or for IR1-CR1 visa for your wife, so she can join you in the US (or do you intend to stay in Canada?)?
- I assume that during this visa process, you being first cousins and this being a problem under Armenian law for marriages, might cause problems (and I assume this is what the US attorney you talked to, meant?). However if Armenian authorities didn't notice this when you filed for marriage, how big is the chance that the Armenian Embassy and CIS authorities would notice?
If you guys were married, I assume you have proof of it? (marriage certificate). Is it very clear you guys are cousins (like same last name)? I am wondering if it would create problems for you later down the road if you do not voluntarily bring up that your wife and you are first cousins (however please never ever lie to CIS, should they ask you directly!) ...
- The way I read your posts, right now your biggest problem is your family...
If you file for immigrant visa or for K-3, in both instances, your wife will at some point receive correspondence from her Embassy/Consulate and also (if you go immigrant visa) from NVC (choice of agent form). Does she still live with her family? If so, I would think ahead about how her family will react to this, to avoid any unpleasant situations.
If her parents really want her to marry someone else and they can in some way force her to do this, then at some point it should become clear she is already married.
Also, if your marriage under Armenian law is really annullable, technically I think someone of her family members could invoke the nullity before a court (again this depends from country to country but I would do research about this).

I hope you will find someone to guide you through the next steps ahead, and wish both of you the best of luck.

I found information about a lawyer in the US that is specialized in Armenian Family Law: http://www.armenianyellowpages.us/?desc=Ar...ery&cid=134

Sefyan Law Firm - Attorney, Lawyer, Law Office, Lawyers
1101 East Broadway, Suite #207
Glendale, CA 91205

Phone: 818-500-1882
Fax: 818-484-2193
Website: http://www.sefyan.com

That's the way I see it too. If she lives at home with her family, they will find out about any visa process unless she can arrange mail to be delivered at another address. At least an initial consultation with a qualified immigration attorney is a good idea.

My suggestion would be just to go ahead with the K3 visa path using the guide here. Unless your first cousin relation ship comes up AND is considered invalid by the US Consular officer, it will be a non-issue in the visa process. If it does, you'll have to start over with a legal marriage or a fiance visa path.

My read is that your marriage is a legal one unless and until challenged directly.

How you're going to overcome her immediate family's knowledge and/or reaction is another matter entirely.

Yes, plus this might be a red flag at the Embassy's interview also. What if they ask "how does your family feel about your marriage?", "Was your family present at your wedding?" or something similar.
I would really think about how these questions will be answered in advance.

You say you researched Armenian law. Did you do such research on your own or did you have someone help you?

Deciphering law by research is a daunting task for a layperson, much less trying to decipher law from foreign lands.

I'm trying to understand if you are considered married at all. And I'm not certain who can ascertain that for you. What have any attorneys you consulted in the US said about the validity of your Armenian union?

Marriage between cousins is so common in many asian countries that it is not even thought of a second time. Many asian/southeast indian, pakistani, etc people get married to cousins and immigrate here with no problem. So you can see how your process goes, and if you are thinking there will be major problems, you may decide to re-marry at a 3rd party country if not allowed in Armenia and check out the states that allow this or if you are not asked, then you should not worry about it.

I was thinking the same thing. You said that you should not have been able to get married, but no one noticed and you did get married. So I would think that you are married and have a marriage certificate. So you could file for a K3 visa. I doubt anyone would ask during the process if you are related. I really do not think this would be an issue.

Other options, there are many states that allow first cousins to marry. Alabama, California, Colorado, New Mexico, Alaska, Florida, D.C., Georgia, Hawaii. So if the marriage was not valid, you could move to one of thise states, apply for a K1 and get married. You do not need to go to a different country.

But, Dude, don't do anything stupid!! There are always ways around anything and always solutions.

I do not even know if you need a lawyer. You do have options here:

1. if for all purposes, everything appears legal and you have a Certified Marriage Certificate, just apply for a K3.

2. Otherwise, get the marriage annuled, move to a state where it is legal, and apply for the K1.

When you really think this through, this is not a difficult situation.

Good luck!!!

This is what I found for you in a search: This is regarding Islam and many other cultures allowing marriage between 1st and 2nd cousins. They do not inquire this during interview, but the main concern here is if you are legally married yet or if you are and do get together, you must be cautious when thinking of having chidren.


"Such marriages are allowed in many other religions and cultures as well. In United States, most of the states allow marriages between the first cousins.

However, it is a good practice to have a blood test before marriage. If one suspects some hereditary disease or any other problem then he/she should seek the advice of a medical expert in this field. The chances of health risk in this marriage are very rare. Most of the marriages have been good and children quite healthy."

Again, it is not encouraged, but allowed in many religions, regions, and cultures. But first you must make sure you are legally recognized as married in your home country or any country before you file a K3.

This is a very good post. It is really not a difficult situation as long as you are legally married or want to file for a K1.

HOnestly I could care less if she is your cousin or someone you met yesterday as a complete stranger with no relation. The problem you have here is immergration. My question is.. is it more important to be together in the end or be in the U.S.???

for me we are working on getting my husband here in the U.S. cause of my children from another marriage.. but if it comes to it I'll go to him in the end if necessary. We believe we should be together anywhere they will allow us to be.

I recomend figure out that first than start making a plan. Good luck to you both.

No one can control our hearts desires and all is worth in life is to go after reaching the satisfaction of our heart deepest love... Go for it... It will be hard, but hey marriage is always a journey never a destination ... Yours will be agreat adventure which I pray to God it will be well worth it one day... Here is my best thought for you... Bring her to the U.S. on a fiancee visa... ( no one will ever ask if you are related by blood or not just dont volunteer any information that is not asked for and most importantly never lie)... The petition you will need to file for her is an I-129 for a K1 visa, upon her arrival in the US get married by any notary public close by to you... and file for the remaining of the petitions you will need in order to grant her residency... (I-130, I-485 etc....)... You are not in the worse situation here and with much patience and care you can get all resoved.... Save your money from attorney s fees (since you dont have much left) and you will need to pay for USCIS applications fees, visa fees, costs to get all docs they requiure, medical exam , her ticket to the uS etc...
I am not a big fan of family relationships, but have on my family and they are perfectly healthy... I am all for following your hearts desire and fighting to the end for your love... Best of luck to you... write me at anytime shall you need help filling the immigration forms...

Diana, he said that they already got married in Armenia.
So the fiance visa (K-1) is not an option.
They would have to file for K-3 or immigrant visa.

Either they are legally married for the purposes of immigration (and need to file for K3), or they aren't (and need to file for K1).

OP... are you still around, and do you have an Armenian marriage certificate?

If not, do you live in one of the states listed as allowing first cousin marriage, in the links previously posted about legal cousin marriages in the US?

Have you consulted any pro bono immigration organizations, like Catholic Charities?

I don't think your situation is hopeless at all. And I don't think you need to involve a third country in this. But your wife needs a safe place from which to conduct her part of this effort (the Armenian equivalent of a Kinko's and a post office box).

This place is a good resource full of good people who want to help. I hope you'll keep coming back.

Maya

And in fact, forget about the cousin thing. This is exactly what everyone here has to go through.

DO YOU HAVE A MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE THAT SHOWS YOU ARE LEGALY MARRIED?

YES - File for K3 visa!!!!!

NO - File for K1 visa!!!!!

If the answer is NO, then after you receive the K1 visa, many of the states that allow first cousin marriages do not have requirements that you live there. So go on vacation and get married.

Very simple and straight forward!!! No need for lawyer or stress!!!
And don't over think this

I am so sorry about your situation. I have talk to a couple of people that have had the same problem. I still dont know the answer to it. I just wanted to add that I think if your going through armenia you have to deal with the embassy in TBILISI, GEORGIA. It might be for just k-1 visa's I am not sure. I wonder if you have to follow the marriage laws in GEORGIA not armenia. Just a thought.

You're right Reba. If this couple was married in Armenia where marriage of first cousins is illegal, then this marriage would be a nullity (aka, invalid marriage).

His option would be to marry again in the US, where marriage between first cousins is considered valid.

I wouldn't worry about what other people think! The both of you are adults and no one but you two can decide who you want to be with... I cannot help you with the other issues, but I just want to say " Good Luck to you both and I hope you find a way to get around these obstacles that are in front you right now". Hang in there! I am sure you will find your way!!

there are states here in the united states which allow first cousin marrieges. also these marrieges are common in the middle east also. i know of a vj member who is married to her cousin also and had no problems with immigration. so it can happen.

We cannot know what will happen. From the information the OP posted the marriage "could be" nullified but it's not at all clear how the familial relationship would come to light or what actions would be taken, if any if and when it did come to light. We certainly cannot assume a Consular officer will ever know or if so ever care about whether the couple are first cousins.

They either have a legal marriage certificate or they don't.

Just some interesting and reassuring facts about first cousin marriages - http://www.cousincouples.com/info/facts.shtml

and this from Wikipedia "History of Armenian Nationality" -re "The Family Code" which is where the OP's problems lie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ar...blic_of_Armenia
"Family legislation

The Family Code was adopted November 9 2004. According to Article 10, marriage contracts are only legal with the mutual consent of a man, age 18 or older, and a woman, age 17 or older. Marriages are prohibited if

* one of the persons is already legally married
* between parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins
* between adopters and adopted
* one of the persons is considered incapable by the court.

Divorce can be granted in the case of mutual consent by the Civil Status Registration Department or if there is a lack of agreement through a judicial process. A husband may not submit an application for divorce while his wife is pregnant."

and here is a link to the actual code: http://www.parliament.am/law_docs/081204HO...ng.pdf?lang=eng It is in article 11 that close relatives are not allowed to marry. Chapter 5 addresses invalid marriages. It appears, if I am reading this right, that the marriage between close relatives cannot be made valid unless a Court intervenes.

Bolded one point for discussion - we can't know what a CO may think, but we have a post very early in this thread from William33 (who has worked in consulates around the globe) that the OP has a difficult case.

I kind of wish William would come back and expound on this a bit.

Yea
There are hundreds of couples from Middle East, Asia and Southeast Asia going through this, its not a 2nd thought in those regions. They are just married. So just think of this as a marriage petition but as everyone here said, make sure you are legally married in the first place. If not, then file for a K1 and it will go by as any other case would. I mean there are bumps in the road in all types of cases so we can just pray for the best.

Well we can't know what the CO will think if they know and we can't know if the subject will ever come up. Certainly an excellent attorney would be a good asset in such a case. So would any direct knowledge of a similar case.