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kyle&ghing
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
pushbrk
QUOTE(kyle&ghing @ Jul 5 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


Just for clarification, a sex offender impacted by the law would have the right to file a petition but I think you want to know about the possibility of the petition being approved.
DavidnMay
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 6 2008, 06:15 AM) *
QUOTE(kyle&ghing @ Jul 5 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


Just for clarification, a sex offender impacted by the law would have the right to file a petition but I think you want to know about the possibility of the petition being approved.


I dont know anything about this situation, but I think if you contact your local district congressman they might be able to help you. They have helped me with questions about immigration a few times:-) Was it a felony, or not a serious offense? I have heard even people who were in prison could still petition someone. I had a DUI and was worried about that but my congressman said dont worry thats not a reason unless I have many then it could be.
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 6 2008, 08:15 AM) *
QUOTE(kyle&ghing @ Jul 5 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


Just for clarification, a sex offender impacted by the law would have the right to file a petition but I think you want to know about the possibility of the petition being approved.


Yes, exactly. I have read an interoffice memorandum at the USCIS regarding how to handle these specific cases and the proof of burden does exist on the petitioner, however there is no "out of hand" rejection implicit in the law or any of the statements that I have read from the USCIS.

There is actually statements on what kind of information would be helpful to build a case for an individual in these circumstances where the petitioner is petitioning a single beneficiary without children (which is the case I am referring to). In regards to this I was wondering 2 things:

1) Have you heard of a case like this being apporved or rejected? AND
2) What would be the specific waiver form signed in this case?

Thank you so much for your consideration.
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(DavidnMay @ Jul 6 2008, 10:12 AM) *
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 6 2008, 06:15 AM) *
QUOTE(kyle&ghing @ Jul 5 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


Just for clarification, a sex offender impacted by the law would have the right to file a petition but I think you want to know about the possibility of the petition being approved.


I dont know anything about this situation, but I think if you contact your local district congressman they might be able to help you. They have helped me with questions about immigration a few times:-) Was it a felony, or not a serious offense? I have heard even people who were in prison could still petition someone. I had a DUI and was worried about that but my congressman said dont worry thats not a reason unless I have many then it could be.


Thank you so much for your kind & helpful response. I had somebody else offer that same advice to me and I think it is a great idea. I will do that.
payxibka
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 6 2008, 08:15 AM) *
QUOTE(kyle&ghing @ Jul 5 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


Just for clarification, a sex offender impacted by the law would have the right to file a petition but I think you want to know about the possibility of the petition being approved.


Actually, if I am not mistaken, the Adam Walsh amendment (if applicable) makes the USC ineligible to file a petition. I am uncertain if the ineligibility is waiverable or not. So I agree, the USC can file but the chances of success are about nil.
*Len*
QUOTE(fwaguy @ Jul 7 2008, 10:31 AM) *
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 6 2008, 08:15 AM) *
QUOTE(kyle&ghing @ Jul 5 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Does anyone know if there have been ANY rulings from the USCIS in reference to the John Walsh Ammendment for petitioners who are registered sex offenders, who have been GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children? I know this law is very new and there may not even be any rulings on this. If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


Just for clarification, a sex offender impacted by the law would have the right to file a petition but I think you want to know about the possibility of the petition being approved.


Actually, if I am not mistaken, the Adam Walsh amendment (if applicable) makes the USC ineligible to file a petition. I am uncertain if the ineligibility is waiverable or not. So I agree, the USC can file but the chances of success are about nil.


That is also my understanding.
Minya's wife
But the OP states that he's been "GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children"...what does that mean? Is there a pre-petition permission that can be sought in such cases?

-P
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(Minya @ Jul 7 2008, 03:26 PM) *
But the OP states that he's been "GRANTED their right to petition for a VISA on behalf of a foreign fiancee with no children"...what does that mean? Is there a pre-petition permission that can be sought in such cases?

-P


Actually I have not been "granted permission" as of yet. I was asking a question about any known cases as such. As far as the USCIS is concerned, since that last posting, I have found an inter-office memo that states the conditions of review of such a case. Here is an excerpt:

[USCIS MEMO dated February 8, 2007]
"In determining whether a petitioner poses any risk to his or her intended beneficiary, the
adjudicator must consider all known factors that are relevant to determining whether the
petitioner poses any risk to the safety and well-being of the beneficiary. Factors that should be
considered include, but are not limited to, the following:

• The nature and severity of the petitioner’s specified offense(s) against a minor,
including all facts and circumstances underlying the offense(s);

• The petitioner’s criminal history;

• The nature, severity, and mitigating circumstances of any arrest(s), conviction(s), or
history of alcohol or substance abuse, sexual or child abuse, domestic violence, or
other violent or criminal behavior that may pose a risk to the safety or well-being of
the principal beneficiary or any derivative beneficiary;

• The relationship of the petitioner to the principal beneficiary and any derivative
beneficiary;

• The age and, if relevant, the gender of the beneficiary;

• Whether the petitioner and beneficiary will be residing either in the same household
or within close proximity to one another; and

• The degree of rehabilitation or behavior modification that may alleviate any risk
posed by the petitioner to the beneficiary, evidenced by the successful completion of
appropriate counseling or rehabilitation programs and the significant passage of time
between incidence of violent, criminal, or abusive behavior and the submission of the
petition."

Being that there are provisions for review, it is obvious that there is no "out of hand" rejection implied by this Adam Walsh Law. The sole discretion is at the hands of the USCIS. IN addition there is also a process of "appeal" if the waiver is denied for both K1 & K3 Visa applicants.
archie07
The sole discretion is at the hands of the USCIS SUPERVISER..
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 7 2008, 04:46 PM) *
The sole discretion is at the hands of the USCIS SUPERVISER..


Yes, specifically and I quote from the inter-office memo I mentioned above:

"3) HQ Clearance of Approval Recommendations

If the adjudicator finds that the petitioner poses no risk to the beneficiary, the adjudicator
must seek the guidance and direction of USCIS Headquarters, Regulations and Product
Management Division, before approving the petition. Adjudicators are prohibited from
exercising favorable discretion in such instances without the consent of USCIS Headquarters."

Singers
I don't think anyone could really tell you either way. Even if you find one case (which I haven't yet) it is so dependent on the individual facts of each case that you could only draw parallels.

If it were me: I would put in the application (assuming the $$ wouldn't bankrupt me) and know that the worse thing they could say is NO.

You have an uphill battle since the social stigma behind sex offenders is pretty harsh. (I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.) But if you could prove your case, then go for it. Things that would help: Single violation rather than a history. Severity of the crime. Receiving/Completing counseling. A letter of remorse/apology. Letters of character from friends/relatives.
desert_fox
Does your fiancee know that you are registered sex offender???

what a prize catch....excuse me, but I hope you fail.
DavidnMay
QUOTE(desert_fox @ Jul 7 2008, 06:56 PM) *
Does your fiancee know that you are registered sex offender???

what a prize catch....excuse me, but I hope you fail.


Hi again did you try calling your local Congressman Rep? they help many with immigration issues and even help then through the filing process. With any luck they have already handled some cases like yours or know of another rep that has:-) And if it is something like having sex with a minor like 16 when the guy is 18 I think that should not be a big deal as long as both agreed to it.
Singers
QUOTE(desert_fox @ Jul 7 2008, 06:56 PM) *
Does your fiancee know that you are registered sex offender???

what a prize catch....excuse me, but I hope you fail.



The very purpose of the Adam Walsh Act (as it applies here) is to notify an intending immigrant of their sponsers past in order to avoid abuse. If his fiance doesn't know, she will know before long.
estadia

plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.
Singers
This would actual be a jurisdictional matter. (In other words it depends on which state you live in.) It also depends on the severity of the crime. In some states that age difference would land you in jail and on the register.

Misdemeanor sex offenses (which can, depending on the state, include indecent exposure and soliciting a prostitute) can be punishable with community service, probation or jail time. Depending on the jurisdiction, they ALL would still require registering as a sex offender.

Sex offenses do not always constitute rape as my previous examples illustrate.
WenDylan
If you have committed any felonious crime, or crime involving moral turpitude, you first I-129F petition will be denied. Hands down. Fact.

Even if you file for a K3, or CR-1. It will fail as well. Your only option is to move there and start a new life.
Singers
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 01:53 AM) *
If you have committed any felonious crime, or crime involving moral turpitude, you first I-129F petition will be denied. Hands down. Fact.

Even if you file for a K3, or CR-1. It will fail as well. Your only option is to move there and start a new life.



This would be true if the OP was the non-USC.
WenDylan
QUOTE(Singers @ Jul 8 2008, 03:59 AM) *
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 01:53 AM) *
If you have committed any felonious crime, or crime involving moral turpitude, you first I-129F petition will be denied. Hands down. Fact.

Even if you file for a K3, or CR-1. It will fail as well. Your only option is to move there and start a new life.



This would be true if the OP was the non-USC.


Tell that to the VO. laughing.gif
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(desert_fox @ Jul 7 2008, 08:56 PM) *
Does your fiancee know that you are registered sex offender???

what a prize catch....excuse me, but I hope you fail.


Yes she does. And I am sorry that you feel that way. I wish you well in your journey here.
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(Singers @ Jul 7 2008, 06:34 PM) *
I don't think anyone could really tell you either way. Even if you find one case (which I haven't yet) it is so dependent on the individual facts of each case that you could only draw parallels.

If it were me: I would put in the application (assuming the $$ wouldn't bankrupt me) and know that the worse thing they could say is NO.

You have an uphill battle since the social stigma behind sex offenders is pretty harsh. (I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.) But if you could prove your case, then go for it. Things that would help: Single violation rather than a history. Severity of the crime. Receiving/Completing counseling. A letter of remorse/apology. Letters of character from friends/relatives.


Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I found out basically the same thing you are saying also. I feel I can present a good case. She knows about my history, I have been out of prison for over 5 years with no problems. I have plenty of character references and counselors / therapists who will write me a letter of recommendation, and if there is someone with my past who would be approved, I believe it would be me.

I do thank you for your help and kind reply.
kyle&ghing
QUOTE(DavidnMay @ Jul 7 2008, 11:46 PM) *
QUOTE(desert_fox @ Jul 7 2008, 06:56 PM) *
Does your fiancee know that you are registered sex offender???

what a prize catch....excuse me, but I hope you fail.


Hi again did you try calling your local Congressman Rep? they help many with immigration issues and even help then through the filing process. With any luck they have already handled some cases like yours or know of another rep that has:-) And if it is something like having sex with a minor like 16 when the guy is 18 I think that should not be a big deal as long as both agreed to it.


No I have not yet. I am getting all of my facts together and making a game plan. I do think it's at least worth a call though, even though some think it's a waste of time. I really can not afford to leave any stone unturned in this venture. I notice you guys are a US-Pinay couple. That's great. I wish you guys good luck.
pushbrk
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 02:00 AM) *
QUOTE(Singers @ Jul 8 2008, 03:59 AM) *
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 01:53 AM) *
If you have committed any felonious crime, or crime involving moral turpitude, you first I-129F petition will be denied. Hands down. Fact.

Even if you file for a K3, or CR-1. It will fail as well. Your only option is to move there and start a new life.



This would be true if the OP was the non-USC.


Tell that to the VO. laughing.gif


None of this is a laughing matter. Your post regarding a crime of moral turpitude is simply wrong because the clause(s) to which you refer, apply to the foreign beneficiary at the Consulate stage, not to either petitioner or beneficiary at the petition approval stage or to the USC in any way.

Let's stick to the facts.
archie07
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 02:30 AM) *
plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.

Yes, statutory rape does get a person registered as a sex offender...
WenDylan
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 8 2008, 09:56 AM) *
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 02:00 AM) *
QUOTE(Singers @ Jul 8 2008, 03:59 AM) *
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 01:53 AM) *
If you have committed any felonious crime, or crime involving moral turpitude, you first I-129F petition will be denied. Hands down. Fact.

Even if you file for a K3, or CR-1. It will fail as well. Your only option is to move there and start a new life.



This would be true if the OP was the non-USC.


Tell that to the VO. laughing.gif


None of this is a laughing matter. Your post regarding a crime of moral turpitude is simply wrong because the clause(s) to which you refer, apply to the foreign beneficiary at the Consulate stage, not to either petitioner or beneficiary at the petition approval stage or to the USC in any way.

Let's stick to the facts.


I agree. I did a little bit more research within my department and found, according to House Act "H.R.4472", which specifically states...

Sec. 402. Barring convicted sex offenders from having family-based petitions approved.

So any petition, will at some point, be denied. I read into this a little more and found several posts on this and another forum where this Act was held up to its word. There would be some litigating circumstances, but I would need to know more about the situation to interpret what would happen exactly.
estadia
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 05:55 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 02:30 AM) *
plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.

Yes, statutory rape does get a person registered as a sex offender...






that sounds so strange to me i guess we just live in the wrong state the man that raped my elder sister when she was 3 years old got sexual misconduct with a minor ........because she was to traumatized to testify and it was the deal that his attorney cut....but he was not put on the registry for sex offenders......it was considered non felony charge......same as what most cases of statutory rape are in this state..................
WenDylan
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 08:33 PM) *
QUOTE(pushbrk @ Jul 8 2008, 09:56 AM) *
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 02:00 AM) *
QUOTE(Singers @ Jul 8 2008, 03:59 AM) *
QUOTE(WenDylan @ Jul 8 2008, 01:53 AM) *
If you have committed any felonious crime, or crime involving moral turpitude, you first I-129F petition will be denied. Hands down. Fact.

Even if you file for a K3, or CR-1. It will fail as well. Your only option is to move there and start a new life.



This would be true if the OP was the non-USC.


Tell that to the VO. laughing.gif


None of this is a laughing matter. Your post regarding a crime of moral turpitude is simply wrong because the clause(s) to which you refer, apply to the foreign beneficiary at the Consulate stage, not to either petitioner or beneficiary at the petition approval stage or to the USC in any way.

Let's stick to the facts.


I agree. I did a little bit more research within my department and found, according to House Act "H.R.4472", which specifically states...

Sec. 402. Barring convicted sex offenders from having family-based petitions approved.

So any petition, will at some point, be denied. I read into this a little more and found several posts on this and another forum where this Act was held up to its word. There would be some litigating circumstances, but I would need to know more about the situation to interpret what would happen exactly.


Not only will it be denied, but since this was the crime...

Offense: 11990002 Sexual Assault Child
Counts Victim Sex Victim Age Disposition Time Status
1 Female 15 10/11/2001 36M PROBATION


That is exactly what the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006 was enacted for.

Sadly, any petition will be denied. However, I did find some information in which one instance you could possibly get the visa.

A collateral effect of the new legislation was its implications on the United States Permanent Resident Card process. Until January 2007, U.S. nationals living abroad who married a local and intended to obtain green cards for their spouse and any immediate family members were able to initiate and complete the majority of the application process at the local U.S. Embassy/Consulate. However, because of the newly enhanced background check and criminal history data trail requirements, the new law had initially been interpreted by the Bureau of Consular Affairs and USCIS as leaving Consular officers ill-equipped to fully handle the I-130 adjucation process. Thus, as of January 2007 I-130 petitions, supporting documentation, or fee payments could no longer be completed in the country of the foreign national.[6]

However, the government made a quick about-face two months later. Due to a significant number of complaints from applicants about the resultant processing delays and from immigration officials about the deluge of paperwork that came with the centralization of the process, the visa petitioning process for immediate relatives of US citizens was resumed at U.S. embassies on March 21, 2007.[7] However, all embassies were required to add a 6 month residency requirement for the US Citizen to file an application directly.

The Act also for the first time limits the rights of citizens or permanent residents to petition to immigrate their spouse or other relatives to the U.S. if the petitioner has a listed child sex abuse conviction. If that is the case, then the petition cannot be approved unless the Department of Homeland Security determines in its unreviewable discretion that there is no risk of harm to the beneficiary or derivative beneficiary.


I hope it is some help.
archie07
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 09:35 PM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 05:55 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 02:30 AM) *
plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.

Yes, statutory rape does get a person registered as a sex offender...






that sounds so strange to me i guess we just live in the wrong state the man that raped my elder sister when she was 3 years old got sexual misconduct with a minor ........because she was to traumatized to testify and it was the deal that his attorney cut....but he was not put on the registry for sex offenders......it was considered non felony charge......same as what most cases of statutory rape are in this state..................

That wouldn't fly in florida..
archie07
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 11:23 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 09:35 PM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 05:55 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 02:30 AM) *
plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.

Yes, statutory rape does get a person registered as a sex offender...






that sounds so strange to me i guess we just live in the wrong state the man that raped my elder sister when she was 3 years old got sexual misconduct with a minor ........because she was to traumatized to testify and it was the deal that his attorney cut....but he was not put on the registry for sex offenders......it was considered non felony charge......same as what most cases of statutory rape are in this state..................

That wouldn't fly in florida..

Child (consensual sex, child under 16 to 12 Yrs of age)
Felony, Up to $10,000 Fine &/or Up to 15 Yrs Pen.
DavidnMay
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 08:30 PM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 11:23 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 09:35 PM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 05:55 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 02:30 AM) *
plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.

Yes, statutory rape does get a person registered as a sex offender...






that sounds so strange to me i guess we just live in the wrong state the man that raped my elder sister when she was 3 years old got sexual misconduct with a minor ........because she was to traumatized to testify and it was the deal that his attorney cut....but he was not put on the registry for sex offenders......it was considered non felony charge......same as what most cases of statutory rape are in this state..................

That wouldn't fly in florida..

Child (consensual sex, child under 16 to 12 Yrs of age)
Felony, Up to $10,000 Fine &/or Up to 15 Yrs Pen.


If your a sex offender it doesnt just mean rape right?
I thought even a case when the guy is 18 and the girl 16 and it was wanted by both it is still against the law?
Isnt there different types of cases that some are not a felony but a misdeamor?
And what if this happen 20 years ago and the person is a completly changed person should that keep them from having a happy life with someone they love?
archie07
QUOTE(DavidnMay @ Jul 9 2008, 01:03 AM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 08:30 PM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 11:23 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 09:35 PM) *
QUOTE(archie07 @ Jul 8 2008, 05:55 PM) *
QUOTE(estadia @ Jul 8 2008, 02:30 AM) *
plz someone correct me if im wrong but doesnt being a registered sex offender happen only when there is either sex offender of a child or children........or brutal rape of an adult? or Adults?..........just simple he was 18 she was 15 does not get u registered as a sex offender.

Yes, statutory rape does get a person registered as a sex offender...






that sounds so strange to me i guess we just live in the wrong state the man that raped my elder sister when she was 3 years old got sexual misconduct with a minor ........because she was to traumatized to testify and it was the deal that his attorney cut....but he was not put on the registry for sex offenders......it was considered non felony charge......same as what most cases of statutory rape are in this state..................

That wouldn't fly in florida..

Child (consensual sex, child under 16 to 12 Yrs of age)
Felony, Up to $10,000 Fine &/or Up to 15 Yrs Pen.


If your a sex offender it doesnt just mean rape right?
I thought even a case when the guy is 18 and the girl 16 and it was wanted by both it is still against the law?
Isnt there different types of cases that some are not a felony but a misdeamor?
And what if this happen 20 years ago and the person is a completly changed person should that keep them from having a happy life with someone they love?

All sex offenses against a minor, not only rape in florida are felonies except for exploitation of a minor.
Singers
I think we should stick to the IMMIGRATION part of this discussion rather than discussing possible sex offenses.



LaL
QUOTE(Singers @ Jul 9 2008, 12:58 AM) *
I think we should stick to the IMMIGRATION part of this discussion rather than discussing possible sex offenses.


Agreed, let's get back on track here smile.gif
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