An interesting article in the Canada Day edition of Maclean's Magazine:
http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/art...625_50113_50113

Very interesting article. I see mostly truths in it. I never thought I would be working 40-45 hours a week, and my husband anywhere between 55-70. It is interesting to know that even someone with great health insurance in the US still owed almost 10,000 dollars when their baby was born. That is insane.

I agree that canadians also have more vivacious social lives. I didn't even notice this until I was back in Toronto a few weeks ago and I had an absolute blast.

very interesting article!

I don't understand why there are so many forums on visa journey centered on Canada vs. America topics. Why so much competition as to who is better? As an American (like many of my friends), I live within my means, do not have a huge debt, and I have an active sex life, thank you very much. I guess I'm just feeling offended by all of the Canada is better posts that I've been reading today. Reading this article has just offended me further. I've been wanting to ask, "If Canada is so amazing, then why don't you move back?" This remark would just bring on defensive remarks though, which I don't really want.
The only foreign country that I ever lived in was England, but even when I found things about England that I disliked in comparison to America, I always tried to be respectful. I don't know any Canadians besides my husband's friend Jess. In all honesty, I never took the time to get to know her. She immediately separated herself from myself and my American friends when she snottily announced at Universal Studios "Americans love their theme parks." She spent the day bashing Americans and complaining about how fat and uncultured we were. Funny how she was at Universal Studios, along with huge amounts of British and other foreign tourists. How hypocritical.
I'm not going to bother defending American culture, because I'm not going to change anyone's views. But it's very rude and unfair to generalize Americans into stereotypes.

Don't worry, I plan on it.

I have a question -- why is it that when a pro-US topic / opinion / comment is posted here, it's patriotism, but when positive things about another country is brought up, it's classified as US-bashing?

I'm not sure where all the rest of the articles you are reading are found, maybe I've missed them. Usually we have to sit and defend ourselves against the typical liberal hippie socialist commie comments we get thrown our way.

I'm not going to get defensive over your comments but I will say a few things. First of all, we are commenting on an article that provided facts. Facts are not equal to generalizations. To say "all americans are fat" is a stupid generalization that a silly girl made. That obviously is just not true. But again, we are commenting on an article and not generalizing. We are also speaking from experience, as having seen and lived both sides of the coin.

Most Americans are not aware of the Canadian VS American battle because it is unfortunately our own insecurities as a people that fuel it. I also think some Americans are not aware of this constant dual because no one south of the border seems to really care or even pay attention to Canada in the first place. My now husband knew nothing about my land at all, but I sure as hell knew about his land. He was willing to learn which I love him for but it wasn't easy. When you live right next to the most powerful country in the world, you often feel like the little guy who is always getting rubbed the wrong way. There are many Americans here that I have met that think to be Canadian is almost a joke, like it's almost a non-existent nationality. After the jokes about our non-existent police force, government, economy, etc., how much can you take? And likewise, many Canadians think to be American is to be many negative things. We want to be taken seriously, but it seems like we never can be because of our geographical location. We are force fed American culture from the day we are born without having a choice. However, some times we do say things that aren't fair out of pure ignorance. I won't be tagged as rude or unfair. I think that is unfair of you to come here and say that.

I think it all depends on where you live, milwaukeegirl. To say that you have seen a lot of topics on Canadians not enjoying America or Americans, well that is part of OUR lives and OUR forum. I'm of course not saying you are not allowed to participate, but you are knocking how some of us truly feel. As far as saying "if you like Canada so much, why don't you just leave or go back?" Well it is easy to say that, isn't it? Our lives have been complicated by international relationships. I have noticed that for the most part, is it Canadian women moving to America for their husbands. One of the reasons seems to be that women think with their hearts and some times, we react too quickly for our own good! That is an example of me. It hasn't been horrible here for me, but it has been different in a not-so-great way and I feel I made a mistake. We all make mistakes. We all miss our homes. The major difference I have had time to think about and gather since I have lived in America is the way we feel about where we come from. Canadians are very in tact with their landscape. We are close to our land. We feel it in our bones. This is not the same as having pride for your country, which obviously many Americans have and deserve to have.

However, there ARE Canadians here that absolutely LOVE living in America and wouldn't trade it for the world. There are a lot of pro-American Canadians around to balance us all out! Believe me on that.

I don't think you are going to find a lot of angry, defensive statements in response. The Canadian American identity 'crisis' is something Canadians have grown up with and the comparison between the two countries is as natural for us as breathing. We have spent our lives having to try and define ourselves when faced with the 'oh, there is no difference between Canadians and Americans" comment - all Canadians will immediately know what I am talking about and the Americans will all sort of look there puzzled and say 'huh'?. We have all spent many years of our lives trying to educate others that there are differences. That is why it is interesting to read articles like this one published on Canada Day - Canada's 141st birthday as a country - continuing to define the differences between Canada and the US.

I actually find it interesting that you are viewing this as American bashing - that is a novel perspective. Perhaps it means we have come of age and are being taken seriously, now:-).

You will find that most Canadians are here in the States because the person we love lives here and it was more practical for us to move here than for our US spouse to move north. Many of us are still in love with our Canadian identity and feel great pride and love for the uniqueness that makes us Canadian. I can appreciate that never having been exposed to the unique relationship that exists between Canadians and Americans it would be hard to understand this perspective. It is why I chose to post this in the Canada forum rather than the Off-topic forum. I knew that Canadians would understand. It was not meant to provoke a flurry of pro/anti American sentiment. It is just an 'interesting' article.

Huh, you do realize you are in the CANADA forum, right?

And, Kathryn, interesting article. We like living in the US but have discussed going to Canada. This give us more to think about!

Very Good article.
And I also didnt see it as bashing America, its just showing what the stats are and how times are a changing.

Article isn't too interesting since most their facts are a few years old. I guess I'm lucky to have a Canadian that prefers America (of course he probably wouldn't want to go there if it wasn't for me, but we don't plan on coming back)

That is exactly what I was trying to say. haha

Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine?

you gotta watch them canadians. they are evil. they show up with tim horton's, tire money, and i'll never forgive them for introducing the usa to celine dion.

I don't apologize for much, but I do apologize for Celine Dion -- she's a nice lady and all, but dang I can't stand listening to her sing.

*laughs softly* This IS a Canadian Forum, yes? As the USC half, I *DO* plan on moving to Canada in the future because I am much happier when I am in my husband's country than my own!!! Of course, this begs the question of why you felt it necessary to come here and plant your little flower of rudeness. No one that I know of from here has gone into the UK forum to proclaim something like this...nor would we. Maybe if you lurk a bit more in the Canada Forum, you might see why we are all here. My husband, a proud Canuck, will tell you pretty darn quick he moved here to be with ME and for no other reason...which is the reason most of us are here as well. Believe me, if it were at all legally possible for me and my daughter to have emigrated there, we would have done it. It just seems that you're basing your opinion on the basis of your experience with ONE PERSON. Now that's a sweeping generalisation m'deah.

By the way, it IS rude, IMHO, to ask the question I've bolded in red. Have a good day m'deah!



Aye, but of course all is forgiven as long as a cuppa Timmy's is involved. Oh and gotta love Canadian Tire Money, eh?

Tire money.

this article just adds to what I've been telling my husband for years, quality of life in Canada is much better than in the US. Now its not just My Opionion, but some guy who writes for McLean's as well.

Which is of course why we're starting the paperwork to move to Canada, just in case you were wondering milwaukeegirl.

my sister works for Canadian Tire. When she used to work in the Pit Stop (gas station) she got to keep all the "leave behinds" (Canadian Tire money that customers didn't take with them). She used to be able to buy all kindsa #### at CT with all her coupons! At employee discount too!

Canadian Tire money is great! I made sure I 'spent' all of mine before I moved to the States - it was cool to get a big bag of stuff and only have to pay $1.23 in actual money and the rest in CT money!

she's part of the conspiracy to end life as we know it in the usa!

Interesting article, but my two cents...

Canadians didn't steal the American dream. After the wealthiest Americans got their share, they then sent it overseas to places like India, Malaysia, China, and Korea. That being said, Canadians may be living the "American Dream," but I'm not convinced that it actually exists anymore. So much for

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Anyway, I often meet Canadians when I'm in Canada who have no clue about Alaska. Does this make them ignorant? Not at all. You know about what is important to you. Before I married a girl from Ontario, pretty much anything outside the Pacific Northwest (including BC) and Washington DC was unimportant to me. And to the cultural detriment of many Americans, Canada isn't that important. Now if you live in a border state like Washington, Michigan, or New York, the Canadian economy, politics, sports, etc gets a lot more important. But it's probably just as important as Arizona, Arkansas, and Alabama are for your average Canadian. And keep in mind that most Americans have no clue about anything more current then who got booted off American Idol or the Jerry Springer Show.

The last time I flew out of Sudbury, this guy sat next to me and we talked a bit. When he found out i was from the US, he immediatly asked me where the US flag on my hat was. And another guy I met in Hawaii went off on me for reading the Jon Stewart book "America." "Oh, typical American," he said "always thinking their better then everyone else." Umm...check the book out dude, it's called irony! And I hate to break this to you (not you guys here on the Forum, of course), but not everyone from the US is a NASCAR redneck who wants to invade and conquer every nation that disagrees with the corporate interests of Halliburton, Exxon, Wal-Mart, and Starbucks. Although my favorite driver, Elliot Sadler, will probably not make the Chase for the Cup in his stupid POS #19 Best Buy Dodge Charger once again this year. But i digress.

So this guy started in on how much he hated Bush and his politics. He went on to say that "I don't hate Americans, I just hate how you think you're better then everyone else." Look Dude, you won't find a bigger Bushie Basher than yours truly...the man's dumber than a chimp. And I'm sorry to piss everyone off on this entire forum, but it is my opinion, that because Canadians are so caught up in proving that they're not insecure about the way the average American views them, that they go completely off the deep end in trying to prove how much better Canada is then the US.

Happy belated Canada Day.

*sigh..

Someday I hope the rest of the world "allows" us Canucks to be Patriotic and Proud of our Nation without having to feel ashamed for it...

My two cents is just because I MOVED here, doesn't mean I instantly change into an American. I moved here for the love of a good man, one I couldn't find in Canada.. that's it.. I am learning to appreciate my new home, but it's not my Country. I'm transplanted here for a while and someday I will be placed back in the wild field from whence I came.

Hopefully that's enough hippy talk to convince you all that I AM CANADIAN!!!!!

Wow.

I think that both countries has its ups and downs. As for healthcare, yes, it is "free" in Canada, but from what I've read, if you need some sort of major surgery, you could be waiting months before you can get it and possibly die before it's your turn.

Also... earning more. Yeah, Canadians earn more, but then you pay a total of 13.5% sales tax (in Montréal... don't know what it is elsewhere in Canada) on everything you buy? That kind of eats up the savings right there. I remember the day after I got to Montréal to visit Réjean in 2006, we went to a grocery store to get food. Réjean made a comment saying he hoped that $50 would be enough for what few things he had in his cart... something that would have cost us $20 or so here in Kansas. The total came out to $49 and some cents. I damn near crapped my pants. Makes me glad sales tax here is in the 7% range.

Réjean told me a while back that he likes it better here than up there. He says there's more opportunity here than up there. Sure enough, the starting pay for the first job he got here was more than he was paid at his old job where he had worked for over 3 years! Plus he says he was shocked by how much friendlier people were here than in Québec.

Sorry if this is all convoluted because I have some serious brain fog issues right now... the point of all this is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, no matter what side you're on.

canada should be very proud

Yep. Canadians understand . . . and Americans mainly just go 'huh'?.

Maybe you just have/had to 'be' there.

fixxored

hehehe Shush - Charles, you are giving away our plan for US domination - we are working on getting Americans to say 'eh' but realize it takes some time for them to transition from 'huh'.

oh carry on then. but i want my tire money!

Can someone send Charles some Canadian Tire money, please? I'm all out!


(In the meantime, maybe this will help as a holdover . . . http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html)

i'll settle for some timbits.......


bad link!

That's not just a Canada to America thing tho, that's a from here to there thing. I've had the exact opposite experience coming from Toronto to Butt F*ck North Carolina. Wages are typically about $10 to $15 less here for comparable jobs in Canada. And we're nickle and dimed to death with taxes! Sure, sales tax is lower, but I'm also paying property tax on my vehicles (which we don't in Canada), I'm paying Medicare off each paycheck, and I'm never going to be eligible to use it, I pay income tax to the State, and our property tax to the city as well as the County. When you add it all up, I'm paying more in taxes here in North Carolina than I was back home in Ontario, and I have far fewer government services to show for my money.

And don't get me started on health care costs! Holy ####, I pay over $400 every month for insurance and then there's the $1500 deductible, plus co-pays on everything and blah blah blah...and I can only go to a doctor that is "in my network", and even then my insurance company can reject a claim just for the helluvit. Back home I could go see anyone I want. I may have to wait a few weeks, but I've also had to wait here for specialists. BFD.

I was with you ever step of the way, Eric, until this part. ^^ I don't like it when people from any country make ignorant comments like they did to you and to MilwaukeeGirl..... that is purely a result of being uneducated. (And I don't mean educated in the scholastic sense of the word.) However, your last paragraph was a verbal "push", and the final sentence was a verbal "kick". I hope I am reading that wrong, but that's how you come across.

Over my lifespan here at VJ I've watched a number of these threads turn nasty, with each participant feeling hurt and misunderstood. I don't know how to fix that, and that's frustrating for me because I'm a peaceful person. I love Canada and I love the US. Each country is breathtakingly beautiful. Each country has wonderful citizens. Each country has things about them which make them distinct and special, and I appreciate that. It's so nice that entire countries can be unique unto themselves..... that you can go there and you will find nowhere else in the world quite like that. And how that uniqueness informs its citizens and creates a definite style and way about them. Unfortunately, each country also has crappy things about them, but that gives us all a goal to work towards.... making things better.

Just like each country, I think what's unique on this board is that the people immigrating are dealing with the loss of their family, their homes, their culture, and their lifestyles. That makes the feelings of pride-in-country and the need to defend it more prevalent. On the other hand, you have the sponsors who haven't been uprooted and are already home so do not understand that our comments are not so much a "take that, Americans" as they are "I love and miss Canada" comments.

krikit, you are the best. Seriously. That was a great response.

I, too, thought your last comment eric wasn't 100% fair. I don't think I'm ever trying to prove Canadians are better. I just miss home desperately and find it hard to adjust in a place that is so different from what I am used to. No one people is better. That is completely subjective and down to personal preference. My opinion is only based on the experiences Im having.

Interesting article.

Those who are offended, don't be.....take it for what it's worth.

A couple of unsolicited comments.....

First, as many others have said, I am here in the US because I love my husband, not the the country. Not that I have anything against the US, but it's not about choosing one country over the other - it's about creating a life with the person you love, wherever that may be, and making the best of it. If we decided one day to move back to Vancouver, I would be tickled! I miss skiing!!! But that also means that I'd have to leave NC barbeque, something that I've grown to LOVE! And my friends that I've made here. And the mostly-dry weather..... etc etc. It's not about Canada/Canadians being better than US/Americans. IMO, we here in North America - on both sides of the border - are so incredibly blessed compared to how most of the world lives, that we should be ashamed of our nitpicking (guilty as charged!) And I'm doubly-blessed because I now have TWO awesome countries to call "home"

Second, regarding being "Canadian" vs "American": being born and raised in Canada, we learn from day one that, unless we *choose* to relinquish it, our homeland will ALWAYS consider us a Canadian. Doesn't matter where we go, or how many other "citizenships" we choose to pick up along the way..... Canadians are Canadians forever. My understanding is that if an American were to accept citizenship of another country, then they will automatically lose their American citizenship (correct me if I'm wrong). Combine this with the fact that so many people from less fortunate countries go through so much to attain a *better* life in melting pot America, and it is understandable that Americans naturally assume that American Citizenship is the pot of gold at the end of humanity's proverbial rainbow. It's a simple matter of what you learn as a child - it becomes part of who you are. That said, one thing that does give me a good chuckle is the reaction of Americans to my AOS process and recent PR status...... they say "Congrats! You are an American now!" Huh?? I think not Of course, I graciously accept the congratulations, and sometimes explain that I am a PR, and that I will have to "apply" to become a citizen a few years from now, if I so choose....... which elicits some funny "Why wouldn't you?" looks..... as if I'm so fortunate that I don't have to be a Canadian anymore In actuality, I'm fortunate that I have the opportunity to be BOTH

Lastly, it's easy to get into the "Who's better?" debate. Having been born and raised in a border city, I never really saw a whole lot of difference between the folks in Canada (BC) and the US (Washington). Moving to the deep south (NC, especially eastern NC), one really notices the differences. A lot of folks here have never been out of the state, let alone country. Their knowledge of Canada is VERY limited, as was my knowledge of the south. Most southerners don't have a clue where Vancouver or BC are, and many are not even sure where Canada is! The general opinion seems to be that Canadians are simple folk who live in igloos, use outhouses, and dream of becoming Americans. On the flip side, the opinion of Americans that I grew up with is that Americans think they are so great just because they are Americans!! And I personally don't see anything wrong with these opinions - cuz that is what they are : OPINIONS! People like to think that they are "better", but when it comes down to it, it's all based on your personal view of the differences. I think that a quote from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy sums it up for me:

"... On the Planet Earth, Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than Dolphins because he had achieved so much: the wheel; New York; wars; and so on, whilst all the Dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the Dolphins believed that they were more intelligent than Man for precisely the same reasons. ..."-

Kudos to our American friends for accomplishing so much..... have at it!!! But if we "simple-folk Canadians" are known for hugging trees, picnicing in the mountains, loving our planet, and relishing in the peaceful solitude of sipping tea while watching the sun rise...... then maybe that's not such a bad thing

(from a Canadian forever, who is very grateful for the opportunity to experience a different view of life here in the US!)

Canadians: We can ply them with timbits and tire money

I was thinking about this thread and the gist of this thread in general. I personally don't feel the need to 'defend' Canada - not that everyone has, i'm not saying that.

I know what Canada is - to me. It's a good country with good people generally and we generally like to help each other out. I like that.

My one Grandmother was born in Nebraska - to two Nebraskanese parents. On my Father's side my Great Grandmother and Grandfather were born in Wisconsin, to Wisconsinese parents (all moved to Canada to live). I was just pondering what they might have thought of this conversation and have decided they would probably think it's pretty funny. I am assuming they had a good sense of humour

I wasn't brought up with the them vs us conversation, in our house - but of course I heard it and of course it is in media, like the McLeans article. On the flip side, the American media supports the 'greatest country on earth' myth. Media schmedia.

Then again, in Calgary we hear the same kind of thing about Edmonton and they haven't asked us to leave the province - although we wouldn't anyway!

Hmm - I'll try again: http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html hmm same link came up on this copy and paste too. Well, I did say I was all out - and I guess I really am!

Here is something that should work: http://www.numismondo.com/pm/can/index_0900.htm or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_money

Ah - I see trailmix took care of it already - thanks Trailmix - and Charles got it ok too:-). Cool!

Oh pegbert, one correction - Americans don't lose their American citizenship when they take out citizenship in another country. They used to, but not anymore:-). The US just doesn't 'recognize' it. A US citizen can even join the army of another country, vote in elections in other countries, and not lose citizenship unless they actually take aggression against the US through their citizenship in the other country.

That is good to know! Our current thinking is that I ought to apply for US citizenship when I can, because it will give us many more options for the rest of my life (since I'l never lose the Canadian one!) We weren't sure about my USC husband..... if, one day, we decide to go live in Canada for a number of years, and he decides to become a Canadian citizen, what will happen if we then decide to return to the US to live? Will he continue to be an "American" in the eyes of the US govt, or will they consider him a Canadian who *abandonned* his country? We thought that it would just be best for him to be a PR of Canada, if it ever came to that. Not that we have any plans to live anywhere specific in the future.... just enjoying all the options that are available to us

L

The Americans will consider him to be an American and the Canadians will consider him to be a Canadian - no conflict there.

On the other hand, if he just gets PR status in Canada he won't lose it, no matter where you two move to, as long as he is living with the Canadian citizen

Basically, you use your Canadian passport when entering Canada and you use your US passport when entering the US. Each country recognizes you as its citizen.

We are going to be one big country in the future anyway with the North American Union. http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=nort...1&FORM=PORE

Dammit! Immigrated way too soon.

Krikit and Treble...

You're right, I did kind of push back there. And I apologize. It's probably stemmed from me spending 6 months of the last year in Canada having to explain countless times that there's more to the US then murders, skyrocketing health care, and George Bush. It's the Michael Moore effect. Add that to explaining that Alaska isn't dark 24 hours a day, we don't have dogsleds or live in igloos, and no, I'm happy being an American and I don't think Alaska should "just be part of Canada." (I'm all for our own country, but again, I digress)

This thread touched a nerve with me because it took me back to my university days living with two British Columbians who were constantly bashing Americans...this is much more civil then those conversations.

Sorry if you thought I was adding a kick with the Canada Day comment. It was being sincere since I wasn't around on the actual holiday.

Eric, I totally get what you are saying. Once I began dating my now husband, the comments about Americans from my own family and friends were RELENTLESS! I was always defending my move to the US and trying to explain that there are positives to living here and that it is one thing to hate the US government, but another to be ignorant enough to believe every one follows it. There are many Canadians who think Americans are absolute morons, but then I just remind them of Canadian morons we have met through all the years we have known each other.

I took American history at university so I could better understand Americans and where I would be moving to. One day very early on in the course I realized a HUGE difference between our peoples. America was built on a difference set of ideals than Canada was. America was built on the rights of the individual to prosper. It was built upon the notion that no matter your situation, an individual has the right to own property and to walk up the social and economic ladder if they so wished to do without any hand outs.

Canada, as a society, has built itself on ideals of social programs and lending hands where ever you can. That is why people always say we are a little too liberal, too left, border line socialists!

It was just interesting to note the differences between how the countries were founded, and how that led to the thinking patterns of how we as two nations act today.

don't tease me like that.

Interesting article for sure

I have often thought that those people who are going for visas and that plan to file for citizenship should be placed in front of those who aren't. That's a very debatablepoint point and I'm not trying to stir up more drama, but I think that moving for love is a great thing, as that's what my wife did for me. I think that being given the chance to move to a countryand live there should also carry with it a responsibility to commit to it and make it better.

With so many people trying to get into the US for a better life, I don't really agree that someone who is moving to the US for a few years to be with their significant other before moving back after retirement or when it's a better idea is a good thing. There should be an expedited list, in my opinion, for those who plan on living the rest of their days in the USA, and then another for those who are kind of "renting" time over here.

Please don't take offense, I've just been thinking about this a lot after reading countless posts about folks who are already planning on moving back after they arrived

Happy Canada Day and 4th of July to all!