CBR- If it is not okay to say that someone feels Canada is a better place to live for themselves than the US, then you are basically saying no one has a right to feel they way they feel. It isn't always negative either! I believe some people are really going out of their way to say that the majority of threads on this section of VJ are negative, which just is not true. The Canadian community is a strong community and we are just trying to help each other through of all this the way we know how. There are a lot of hardships and negatives in this process so it's easy to say "why can't we all just be positive about the two countries", when that is pretty idealist. There is no way you know what you are getting into when you move to another country. Some people end up not liking it and that is okay; it doesn't mean the place in BAD, it just means they don't like it. I think people have a hard time separating personal preference from anti-anything here. That is the most frustrating part for me.

If you truly believe that this board has an affect on American-Canadian relations on a wide spectrum than I don't know what to tell you.

As far as history being historical, as someone who has both a BA in history and english literature, I can honesty say that not all of what you read is true. A lot of fiction is passed on and written as fact. As they always say, history is always written by the victor and therefore always incurs some sort of bias. Therefore, I find nothing wrong with people have their own perceptions of history, especially when we have not been there to see it with our own eyes.

Both ARE great countries and I would never try to dispute something as subjective as that. However, in my opinion, it doesn't mean any one is wrong or not being nice in saying they like one more than the other and stating reasons for feeling that way.

As far as living close to NYC, sure it's a short train ride, bus ride, drive there, which is great. However, the expense and population of New York City has driven up real estate and almost every other cost that I have to incur in my life substantially. There isn't that many benefits, especially if you don't have the chance to go there on a weekly basis. More over, it's population is what I find alienating. Most bigger cities in Canada are big with a small town feel. They are much more homely, in my opinion. But I digress.

So true treble

why is it we might say one little negative thing about the US and all of a sudden we are bashing the US??

I brought that up earlier as well, and it seems there is no good answer for that particular question.

You're taking my words to an extreme. I never said people don't have a right to feel the way they do, I said that the negativity makes me feel unwelcome. I didn't say this board has an affect on American-Canadian relations, but it seems to be representative of the Canadian viewpoint (the article this thread is about says it all).
I don't think you'd feel welcome either if the tables were turned.

Just wanted to add in my two cents here and this is not mean to be offensive in any way. I've never really considered myself a passionate Canadian, so this is my perspective. I've known I wanted to live in the U.S. for a long time.

First, I would say that my U.S. friends and my boyfriend have much better social lives than me and my Canadian friends, always have. The U.S. college experience is crazy fun - and I went to Laurier and had fun too... but there is just something different about going to school in the States. Well maybe that is just from our experiences. Even now that we all work full time. My boyfriend's friends who live in the city have amazing social lives. When I'm there we are always going for dinner, finding cool places to go in the city, going to different bars. Living in the NYC vicinity makes that easier. Sure, maybe more expensive to live there, but its a sacrifice for sure.

Also, I live in Toronto (well actually Mississauga, but I work in Toronto and my friends are all in Toronto) and the cost of living is very comparable. Actually, I will most likely get paid more in NYC when I get a new job for the same job and the cost of living will be similar. We will be living in Queens because yes Manhattan is a bit outrageous, but Queens is very very reasonable. I feel fine walking around by myself, we will only be a 20 minute subway ride into the city and we'll most likely be able to buy a condo soon too. Our rent if we were to live in Toronto downtown would be the same as if we lived in Queens. I consider Queens pretty urban too and similar to living as far as like High Park or Yonge and Eglinton, not as nice maybe, but New York is older/dirtier so its a trade off.

I also think I work harder than my boyfriend for sure. He has like 31 days vacation (he's the USC) and I only have 12 so go figure. I'm in way more debt than him from school. We also always joke that he's way smarter than me because he learned so much more in school than I did! Seriously, the stuff he learned in High School, and the SATs! Way harder. Anyways, I digress.

I think at the end of the day, its just impossible to generalize the term "American vs. Canadian" or to say that Canadian have stole the American Dream. Even comparing Toronto vs. Waterloo (I've lived in both, Waterloo just wasn't for me, but Toronto is) is different.

Anyways, the good thing is that we have choices, yes we need money to act on our choices, but its not impossible if we are strategic with our savings and plans than we can make it work.

For us it comes down to priorities. Our priorities are living close to the city. We will never have a large house with a yard and a pool, but we will have other things, like being a 5 minute walk to the subway and a million different restaurants.

Who said bashing? I must have missed that part.

no one is bashing the US.. we are just pointing how somethings are different in Canada then in the US.. what is wrong with that??

I notice that when a Canadian talks about Canada we are totally jumped on but when other people talk about their home countries it doesn't get the same response

not necessarily in this thread, but it has happened in others around VJ, with the predictable posts that include "go home then if you don't like it here', "why did you bother coming here in the first place", "why are you always so negative about the US" etc etc etc.

I was born in Kitchener, and most of my friends went to waterloo or laurier, so I feel I can sort of tag along to your post. First of all, you are making broad generalizations from your experience. My husband, his brother in law and my sister in law all have college degrees from different colleges. In my 4th year of university while I was busting my ### in my 4th year seminars and writing 20 page papers on no sleep, my husband was playing beer pong. A full course load in the United States is 4 courses, and in Canada it is 5. In fact, in his 4th year I don't believe my husband wrote ONE paper that he had to actually go to the library to research. He still says today that he only used the library a couple times in 4 years and it wasn't necessary as most of his papers were written from opinion and text books. I had so much work I could hardly breathe. Also, all three of my inlaws took a bunch of bullshit courses when I didn't have the opportunity to do so. Here in the US, most colleges offer a lot of courses that are not english/science/math, etc. based. My sister in law took a class in "rhythmic breathing" and my brother in law took a class in "90s hip hop". Not only was stuff like that not offered to me, I don't think it is offered anywhere in Canada. In comparison to my friends in Canada, some people I have met here are incredibly un-worldy. (maybe I'm meeting the wrong people but the term "jersey girl" sums it up pretty often) People will always know what they want to know, no matter where you are. If there is no desire to go beyond that, your knowledge base can fall pretty flat. As far as your husband being more in debt than you, that has nothing to really do with America VS Canada. I was in debt as I borrowed money for living expenses from the bank. My husband's tuition was more than twice the cost of mine, at a state college no less, but his dad paid for everything. So that more or less has to do with your situation.

As far as you working harder, I have not found that to be the case. Working for a small company that ONLY closed on christmas day and new years day, every other day was a work day for me. I was putting in 45 hours a week, not a lot by most peoples standards but I was only working 35 hours in Canada, for peanuts. My employer only paid 10% of my health benefits, and I only had access to 5 personal days a year. Not so great, you know? My husband works at least 60 hours a week and that cuts into our family time greatly. Some times we hardly see each other. Each situation is different.

As someone who has lived right across the water from NYC for the past year and a half, it really is a great place to live if you can afford to live in it. Often times without living somewhere you don't realize the high costs of things like groceries and taxes.

NY has decently high sales tax, at somewhere between 8-12% I believe. All the people in Jersey that I know that work in Manhattan have to bring their lunches or they end up spending a huge chunk of their paycheques on what I call "Manhattan expenses. Maybe Queens will work out well for you and your husband. I seriously hope it does. But I was like, too, before I moved here. I was very gung-ho and thought I would absolutely love it, getting a job in the city and living a great life. Little did I know that at first, all I could be was a receptionist, living with my father in law even though we have two incomes, and not meeting many people that are down to earth at all. Again, maybe it will be JUST the place for you to live a wonderful life, but I'd be hesitant to say anything to set in stone until you live here.

Well, I don't have that opinion Cassie. I understand that there are going to be things you miss and stating so isn't what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about people touting their home country either. I love to hear about life in other countries directly from people who grew up there. But when you start making comparisons people are gonna feel offended and I'm sorry to single you out Reba (cuz I know you're a sweetheart) but your post was a comparison on our differences and it was definitely intent on putting the US down and Canada up. I'm not the only one who disagreed with it and it is what it is. Also, I don't spend time in the other regional forums, but I have caught a couple posts with the same attitude and it made me feel the same. I'm not picking on this forum, it's just the only regional forum I read in because my fiance is Canadian.

Back to the topic of this thread which was the article on Canada stealing the American dream (nice title). I actually agree with most of it. Americans in general are crazy with their wanting to one up their neighbors...bigger car, bigger house, bigger boat, better job etc... I wish we would get back to spending time with family, putting children first (referencing our crappy maternity leave here), having more time off etc... There's a good part of the article that states how impossible it is to compare the two countries since the US within itself is hard to compare to itself. Salaries, city size, cultures etc... I don't agree that drinking more is a positive. I don't know about Canadians having better social lives. What I've experienced is that it costs a lot more to do anything there (where I visited compared to where i live) and there's not much to do. There is a lot more drug abuse and teen pregnancies there (where I visited compared to where I live) and I would attribute that to boredom and lack of parental guidance into activities (which aren't available in canada like they are where I live). There's a lot more for kids to get involved in here.

Maybe we should go and read the original article again - it seems like the discussions have veered off track and become a lot more personal. Canada is a great country and if I wanted to bother - if it was so important to me to have to rush out and defend my country - it would be a pretty straightforward matter to back up many of the statements made in the Macleans' article. The documentary evidence and statistics exist and have been collected. But really, guys, who said it had to become a competition? Why do we need to make it an 'either/or' situation - either you love Canada and hate the US or hate Canada and love the US. There has never been any intention to make this distinction. It is like the comparison between the US and Canadian dollars - sometimes the US dollar is worth more and sometimes the Canadian dollar is. It doesn't make anything right or wrong, or black and white.

My observation about Canadians understanding and Americans going 'huh' has been reinforced quite a number of times over the collective posts. Americans have shown over and over again that they do not understand - and why should they? It is not their experience. There is an indefinable quality about being a Canadian that is cannot be fully understood except from the inside out. Perhaps this personal story might provide an analogy to help explain:

My career and training are in the heritage sector as a museum professional. In 1995 I submitted a proposal to the Uncle Tom's Cabin Historic Site (now National Historic Site) in Dresden Ontario to do the design and installation of their new exhibition/interpretation centre. The original Dawn Settlement of Dresden, Upper Canada was founded by Josiah Henson (the inspiration for Harriet Beecher Stowe's character of Uncle Tom) along with other former slaves who had escaped to freedom in Canada. They established a community wherein they taught newcomers from the Underground Railroad how to be self-sufficient, how to look after their own homes and trained them for a useful occupation (carpenters, wood workers, seamstresses, etc.). During the initial interview with the Board of Directors when I was trying to get the contract one of the Board members who was a descendant of one of the original settlers asked me how I, as a white person, could begin to understand what it was like being a black refugee from slavery trying to build a life in a new world. I told him that I couldn't. I also said that he couldn't either because neither of us were black refugees from slavery trying to build a life in a new world. What I could do, though, was research and tell the story from the outside, using resources and materials provided from the original settlers to help tell that story. I could use their words and their experiences to make the story come to life and I could get a pretty darn good understanding of what it would be like, even though I could never actually know it on a personal level. It would be the closest any of us could get. (I got the contract and the exhibit was some of my best work. Most of it is still intact 12 years later.)

The closest we can get to understanding history - or understanding one another - is through personal interpretation. The interpretation is going to be tempered by our degree of knowledge about the actual events, by our own experiences and by our own biases. Those of us who work in the historical field have an ongoing challenge to discover our own biases and try to prevent them from inadvertently distorting the story line - unless that is something we deliberately wish to do. There have been a lot of generalizations about both Canadian and American history made on this thread - and some have been taken out of their intended context as to be stereotyped when stereotyping was not implied - that is a personal bias that has coloured the interpretation. In fact, it is more accurate to state that there were at least 4 distinctly different cultural founding communities in different geographical areas to settle the early US - and I am talking long before Revolutionary times here which really focuses on the supremacy of one of those cultural identities over the others (the 13 colonies/New England). The same is true about Canadian history - there is a wonderful interplay of power struggles between the early Dutch, the French and the British - as well as reaction to/against the threat of the country that became the United States - both before and after the War of Independence. Also of significant impact to both countries are the roles placed by the various First Nations - the Indians/Native Americans. None of us are going to be able to more than discuss in very very very very broad generalizations the history of either of these countries - there just isn't space!

Canada's relationship with the US has often been described as living in the shadow of the elephant. When the elephant turns over - you notice - and you react if you don't want to get squished. The Canadians will understand this from the inside out - the Americans and other countries may see what is happening by observation but no matter how much they try, they will not be able to fully inculcate the awareness - to understand it as a Canadian because it is not part of their experience, it is not part of the awareness. This is not a flaw, it is not a complaint, it is not a criticism on either part. Americans can see the results of that experience and may even understand why it exists, but unless you grew up with it, it is not your experience. So, while I could not understand what it was like to be a black refugee from slavery trying to build a new life and new home in 19th century wilderness Canada, I could appreciate that there is a uniqueness to that experience that is valid and integral to the identity of those people. I can respect the differences, I can try to understand them, and I can appreciate that as close as I get to it, I will never fully know it until it is also my experience.

I guess that is what we Canadians would like to have from our American friends and neighbours - an acceptance that we are different in ways you will never know or understand, and not try to change us or tell us we are wrong because you don't see it the same way as do we.

Very nice post. Loved it. Thanks for contributing.

Yes. This is a perfect understanding of how I feel. Not just about the Canada VS America debate, but just about life in general.

Unfortunately, the Americans just read it that we're calling them a fat elephant.



No, I'm not a sweetheart, anyone who knows me personally will tell you I'm a cruel heartless ######. Including my darling husband, and my own mother. Why, because I have a rather direct way of speaking. I don't beat around the bush, use euphemisms, or politically correct language. Its crap, its a waste of time and really serves no purpose other than to coddle. I share this trait with the late great George Carlin. Who I am sure is screaming up at us at this very moment.

If you took offence to my earlier post, well I can assure you that was not my intent. I really was merely making comparisons between the countries to explain our differences, nothing more. If you found offence in that, well, maybe you should take another look.

The point is, the way that our 2 countries were founded have deeply affected the later generations. Those first settlers to each country each had different outlooks on life, and different purposes and reasons for coming to the new world. The attitudes of those first people have continued with later generations, and with the "founding fathers" of both countries. Those early settlers may have all come from the same European countries, but the people themselves were different. They had different agendas, they had different experiences, and they formed our countries independently of each other. So even if at the base of things, our gentic make-up may be exactly the same, we are fundamentally different.

If being different is offensive, well, I can't help that. If over-simplification is offensive, well, blame Reader's Digest.

And if you want to see some Canada bashing for a change, just check out any of Gary's threads over in Off-Topic. He's always finding all sorts of factually wrong articles with sweeping generalisations about Canada.

The paying with beer thing is sooooooooo true! The heartwarming thing is that it is more than just paying with beer. It's the camaraderie and the bonding and the sense of "doing unto others". I'm really lucky in that I have found that exact same outlook on life here in my new neighbourhood. Everyone pitches in and helps each other out, as well as watching out for one another. It's soooooooo nice. I have the best neighbours ever.

OMGWTFBBQ!?! AMERIKA-BASHING by CANADAIANSSS ITT!!111

"Blame Canada
Blame Canada
It seems that everything's gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Blame Canada
Blame Canada
They're not even a real country anyway!"

Krikit-that is awesome that you have found great neighbours who all pitch in and help each other out. That must be great. The paying in beer thing is so true. Every time my friends did something nice for me, I'd take them out for some beers.

Well of course....... it's not "Here's your beer - now go away". Yer meant to crack that sucker open and stay a while!!! I am teaching my neighbors this, by wandering onto their patios late afternoon, with dogs in tow and beer in hand

Are they like, "what in gods name is this person coming into our backyard for?" haha

if your bringing beer over, who cares who you are,lol

I didn't find your post offensive and I never said that word. I found it incorrect.. Paying with beer is not unique to Canada and the US is not unaware of this concept. That is a generalizaiton using the location you moved to in the US to generalize that the entire US must be the same. It's done here in WI and MI and IL (family & friends in those states do it too) You talked about Canada gaining independence with a beer at a party which I understand you were simplifying, but it was a ridiculous thing to say when Canada gained true independence in 1982 and the US did in 1776. Very different times, different things being done to the colonists back then, and a very unfair comparison. And I know your intent was to point out huge differences in the two countries to emphasize your point that the US is a war mongering country.

I apologize for saying you were sweet. The nice words you left me when I was waiting for our noa2 led me to believe that. I just don't agree with the philosophy of being blunt...I call it rude. You don't care about hurting people's feelings? And I don't mean mine, because mine aren't. I wish you'd rethink that. I know a few people like that and they're not pleasant to be around. Coddling is one thing, but using tact and keeping your negative opinions to yourself is another. if you know your opinion is going to offend someone maybe you should think twice before saying it. And I'm not referring to VJ, I mean in real life. Obviously this is a message board and the point is you can say whatever you want if you don't care what people think about you.

That beer thing is so true - I am not even a beer drinker but whenever I had moving parties or whatever I'd buy several cases, call my friends, we would get the job done and everyone would sit down and have a beer to celebrate completing the task:-) . . . and then another, and another . . . . !

Reba, I agree with you whole-heartedly. Canada and the US are founded from two entirely different 'attitudes' and these have indeed profoundly influenced how each country has developed.

Perhaps one of the more significant - and illustrative - events in the settlement of Canada was the coming of the United Empire Loyalists (UEL). Notwithstanding the UEL 'myth', these were individuals who, for one reason or another, did not wish to become involved in the disputes of the American Revolution. Some of them were indeed 'loyal' to the British crown; many more of them were basically 'not interested' in the conflict and just wished to continue on with their daily lives without getting politically involved, but they were literally forced to flee for their lives when their property was confiscated by US supporters who declared 'If you are not for us, you're against us'. There was no room for neutrality. (That attitude has influenced much of the US' more recent development, as well.) Other UELs were opportunists - individuals, who after the war or in its final days, saw the opportunity to own their own land given as settlement grants for the UEL immigrants to Canada - something they, as tenant farmers in the US, could not expect within their foreseeable future. So, they came north. Until the arrival of the UEL the general British/Canadian intent was to keep Upper Canada (Ontario) and the areas west free of habitation to support the lucrative fur trade. After the UELs literally overflooded the Maritime provinces and Eastern Canada, lands were made available first along the north shores of Lake Ontario and then later along Lake Erie and the various rivers that flowed into these lakes for UEL settlement. Retiring soldiers were also given their settlement lots by the British government as rewards for service. The majority of the UEL were not rampant royalists loyal to the British crown; they were just people who wanted an opportunity to live their lives and do their work unfettered by strife and politics, and because they wanted to stay politically neutral, were considered traitors by the Revolutionaries.

'Canadian' identity received a further boost during the War of 1812, where the US attitude was that Canadians were all secretly fretting under the horrible weight of British domination and just waiting for the Americans to come and rescue them. General Hull's proclamation is a good document to read sometime - and many will hear its echos in the declarations the US made when going in to 'save' Iraq. http://www.hillsdalesites.org/personal/hst...mation-Hull.htm . The US was dumbfounded when not only did the Canadians NOT welcome them with open arms, they actually took up arms to resist them and to defend their country. Brothers fought against brothers in this war as well, and it was uniting in a joint effort against the assault of a common enemy that finally solidified the sense of 'being Canadian'. If the US had not chosen to invade Canada at that time there is a good chance that the common ancestry may have allowed for assimilation of the Canadian provinces into the American states. Trying to take by force what could have been available through patient waiting is what finally separated Canadians from Americans permanently. Canadians wait patiently but are not cowards. When it is necessary - and the Canadian and Americans definition of 'necessity' varies greatly - they fight. Canadians joined battle in both WWI and WWII long before the Americans saw fit to join - and fought, not because they felt they had been invaded or attacked, but because they believed in the common good.

In the years between, the US continued to believe in 'manifest destiny' - that they were divinely empowered to control all of North American - and so covertly supported the rebels in the Rebellions of 1837/38 as well as unofficially support the Fenian during their cross-border raids into Canada. This continued US threat is what ultimately led to the Canadian provinces meeting in Prince Edward Island in the early 1860s to discuss 'confederation'. The Dominion of Canada - a confederation of Provinces - was signed into existence on July 1, 1867 with a defensive cohesion against potential US aggression as a prime motivator. Canada's capitol - Ottawa- was chosen by Queen Victoria to be the capitol specifically because it wasn't near the American border and would be difficult for the US to capture if they invaded. This is the 'elephant' of which I previously spoke and of which Canadians have grown up knowing 'instinctively' of its 'mass'.

So, yes, Reba is absolutely right. We two countries have entirely different approaches to life that were determined from two very different genesis as countries. The motivations of our early settlers were different and these differences continue to affect how each country develops and grows as a nation. This is not pro-Canada or anti-American, it is historical fact.

So, probably more Canadian history than anyone really wanted to hear:-). . . (and the opportunity to credit more of my museum work research - in 1980, I created a traveling exhibition for Queen's University Archives based on a collection of UEL documents found in an old Inn near Bath, Ontario, and in 1997 designed new historical exhibitions for Windsor's Community Museum from its early days as a fur-hunter's version of paradise to today's center of industry. One of my great pleasures is reading primary documentation to gain an understanding of the times from the perspectives of the participants).

i just discovered i'm more canadian than i thought

Hehehe, well there you have it, Charles, there is another good reason why you are an honourary member of the Canada Forum!

Very nice Kathryn. Your historic abilities are really valuable to this thread, and our knowledge in general as we look into who we are and why Canadians often feel the way we do.

Since you are obviously well-versed in Canadian history, I'm curious if you've read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Canada/dp/0816031576 and, if so, how you feel about it. I bought it a while ago so I could be a little less stupid about Canada's history, but haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

If they wondered, they didn't say anything! I actually think that approaching the neighbors with beer in hand is sort of like waving a white flag....."Don't shoot! I come in peace!! I am Canadian!!"

True story: I ran into one of said neighbors out shopping the other day, and she was short a dollar or something, so I gave her one. She said "Thanks, I owe you a dollar", to which I replied "Naww... I'll just come by for a beer." You can take the Canadian out of Canada, but you can't take Canada out of the Canadian!!!

I think the Canadians here need to read American Myths: What Canadians Think They Know About The United States by Rudyard Griffiths. The author is a columnist with the Toronto Star and a regular political commentator for CityTV. In 2006, The Globe and Mail recognized him as one of Canada's top 40 Under 40.

It's an absolutely terrific book and points out the many misconceptions that Canadians have about the United States, some of which have been propagated by the Canadian government in an effort to promote a sense of Canadian well-being and separate themselves from the United States. No, it doesn't vilify Canada and make the U.S. look the "land of milk and honey, where the streets are paved with gold." However, it makes sure to note that Canada is far from a "bed of roses" and any Canadian who truly believes that Canada is superior to the U.S. in every way is gravely mistaken.

The link above is for Amazon.com, but I'm sure it's on Amazon.ca as well and Barnes & Noble or Chapters as well. It seems to sell out pretty fast, so if you're interested in it, I'd recommend grabbing it quickly.

I really don't think anyone here is saying Canada is better then the US...


we grew up in Canada, we know it isn't prefect... but it is what we know.. ..


yes Canada and the US are basically the same but we are also different in a lot of ways...

What a very interesting statement! So, you expect Canadians are to think the opposite? That if Canada isn't superior than the US, than the US is superior? Why does it have to be a competition?! Why not just recognize that there are differences and accept that? Why do you have such a problem with allowing Canadians to be Canadians and to love their country? Why do you feel the need to keep trying to tell us we are wrong for valuing our country, our heritage , our identity and say we are supposed to prefer the US? (Hmmm, were you the speech writer for General Hull back in 1812 in one of your previous incarnations trying to 'save us' from our delusions? ).

that is what I was trying to say.. you said it much better then me...

I get the feeling on VJ sometimes that every other country is allowed to talk about how great their home country is except the Canadians...

oh come on Marilyn, your just GENERALIZING everything,lol I do tend to agree with you.

lol.. I didn't say it was fact but sometimes I just get that feeling

Him, actually, I haven't read this one but it looks like an interesting read. It looks like one worth having. Here is the information from Amazon about it:

Editorial Reviews
From Library Journal
All too often Americans dismiss Canadians as a nondescript people living above the 49th parallel with a boring history. On the contrary, as Riendeau (Univ. of Toronto) demonstrates in his credible analysis of the Canadian past, Canada has a history as vibrant as any in the world. The book covers a wide range of topics--geographical features, the Norse discovery, the fall of New France, nationhood, and finally, the modern era. Riendeau has written a good text enriched by photos, maps, and a bibliography for further reading. This is a worthy addition for public and academic libraries.
-Larry R. Little, Penticton P.L., British Columbia
Copyright 2000 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Card catalog description
"Canada's history has been a long, fascinating, and very independent evolution, in marked contrast to the violence that typifies the United States's story. Most Americans know embarrassingly little about their northern neighbor's unique history, from its first sighting by the Norse to its full confederation in 1922 to today's social democracy. Now, in the wake of NAFTA and the Quebec crisis, an understanding of the forces that have driven Canada's development over the last 400 years is more important than ever. A Brief History of Canada fills the gap with an authoritative narrative history that combines solid reference value with helpful analysis."--BOOK JACKET. "With more than 20 photographs and eight maps. A Brief History of Canada is an enlightening introduction to the nation and its people."--BOOK JACKET.

Sounds like something DeadPoolX might want to read!!

These two books (volumes 1 and 2) are good ones to have in any Library of Canadian history - and quite readable too:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0771033249
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0771033362

The video series that goes along with it is also excellent. A lot of re-enactors are included in many of the scenes - unfortunately, I am not one of them but many friends are.

Well, it's not beer, but in my Mom's home town of Waterbury, VT, they pay one another with Ben and Jerry's. And I can't tell you how wonderful all of her neighbors have been and pitched in for her in her times of need since she lives by herself and my brother and I live so far away. From driving her to chemotherapy to plowing her driveway when it's literally snowed for months on end, they have been great.

In short, I don't think of that as a Canadian/American thing, but more of a rural vs. city thing. That being said, Derek and I also have good neighbors here in Metro DC from ones who have helped us move - paid in beer and pizza - to taking care of the cat when we have been away - paid in Vermont maple syrup. But in turn we try and be good neighbors ourselves. And will gratefully take beer as payment!

My maternal Great-Grandmother's parents were UELs and left Pennsylvania for Ontario. I actually have quite a lot of American history in my family. Even as far back as the witch-hunts of the 17th Century in New England.

You don't read very carefully, do you? Look again. I said "superior in every way." What does that mean? If you think I'm stating that Canada is inherently inferior to the United States, you've misread me.

All I'm saying is that Canada isn't "superior" in every way which is something that shouldn't have to be spoken or written. Unfortunately, it seems that such commentary needs to be made here, as the pro-Canadian rhetoric says otherwise. There are some things that Canada does better than the U.S. and there are others that the U.S. does better than Canada.

You might want to read a little more carefully next time before jumping to conclusions.

again no one here is saying that Canada is better then the US in every way

I think you might be misreading stuff too..

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/new...7b672d3&p=1

Heard a documentary on this when in Canada this past weekend.. FAB bit of Canadian History.. I was SO proud to be CDN when I heard the premier knocking down the KKK!!

Perhaps I am. It's certainly possible on the Internet, where vocal tone, emotion and body language are all absent in conversation.

we know Canada isn't perfect but we grew up there so we are partial to the country... *shrugs*

I think Canada is better.

But thats just my personal opinion.

Of course I am going to think its better, its where I am from, it's where my family and friends are.

My husband and I used to get into HUGE "debates" about this all the time. Now, we just don't talk about it. We're both proud of our homes and I accept his love for his as he accepts my love for mine.

I dont see whats wrong with SOMEONES personal opinion a certain country is 100% better, thats their right. I love canada/usa. but hope to live down in S.America for a few years.

I don't see what is wrong with it either. I guess we are missing something.

Please show where in any of the previous posts anyone - other than you - used the words 'Canada is superior in every way'. You were the first to bring up that point and by using that phrase, you implied the absolutism. I think I read more carefully than you anticipated, and you are now trying to defend your own statement by back peddling.

I gave this to Kathryn, but I might as well paste it in here as well. I think at the end of the day, this is what we are trying to say in the most beautiful and real way possible.

"...My hair's mostly wind,
My eyes filled with grit
My skin's white then brown
My lips chapped and split
I've lain on the prairie and heard grasses sigh
I've stared at the vast open bowl of the sky
I've seen all the castles and faces in clouds
My home is the prairie and for that I am proud…

If You're not from the Prairie, you can't know my soul
You don't know our blizzards; you've not fought our cold
You can't know my mind, nor ever my heart
Unless deep within you there's somehow a part…
A part of these things that I've said that I know,
The wind, sky and earth, the storms and the snow.
Best say that you have - and then we'll be one,
For we will have shared that same blazing sun."
- David Bouchard

In many ways I think Canada is better, too. But of course, I'm from the US so I like things about it as well.

I think some people are just more sensitive to comments about the US than others. I have no problem with comments about the government, comments such as "Americans are fat" (because it's true), or anything like that. Some things do offend me, but they aren't things I can define. I think maybe it's a disdain of the US itself that offends me. Or making comparisons between your country and the US and pointing out in what ways the US fails to meet the high standards of your home country.

This, by the way, is a general comment - not a comment for the Canada forum. The most obvious example I can think of...the type of comment that makes me want to beat someone.... is Booyah and his raging hard-on for Australia and his air of superiority. I don't disagree with many of the things that he's said, but the way he says them makes me want to kick him in the face. Repeatedly. With steel-toe boots.

I haven't seen any of that in the Canada forum. Not from the Canadians, at least. I HAVE seen it from a few Americans in here over the years. I think it's perfectly natural to prefer your own country and to think that the way things are done there are the "correct" ways. Just like the way that Mags thinks that putting a pile of beans on a piece of toast, sprinkling with cheese and then eating it is perfectly normal. Just like the way I think that it ISN'T normal, or in any way palatable. (Don't get me started on poutine!) Cultures are different....that's the beauty of life on this spinning blue-green orb....there's enough non-uniformity to keep things interesting.

Bless you, Platy.