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You little polemicist, you.

lol i am just student in your school teacher

Nice try, but it won't fly. It seems that there are few believing Christians on this board. The taste in women of current MENA men tends toward hedonists, atheists, and the self-actualized church of "if it feels good, do it".

Wow. Compassion and tolerance abounds....

smoke and mirrors

glass house, rock, blah blah

zactly

...also irony that the point is made about trying to find recruits to Christianity when the OP's siggy is a vid from turntoislam . com

What a crock she is! Roman Catholic churches have so many members that they aren't really out there recruiting. We don't have to, most of the world already is Catholic - and more being born everyday. Furthermore, I love how she is pointing out that there are criminals in Mexico and Italy and that they are Catholic countries...there are criminals in Islamic countries as well. Furthermore, I had to laugh when she mentioned the conflict between Northern Ireland - protestants vs. catholics. To me that is the pot calling the kettle black...Shiites vs. Sunnis...last time I checked that was Islam vs. Islam. Where's the peace there??? Hmmmmmmm?

Most of the world is catholic? I rarely meet anyone who is catholic though I know there are some out there. Catholics actually only make up 24 percent of the population in the United States. Worldwide they make up 17 percent of the population. Estimates vary on muslims being 21 to 25 percent of the population worldwide.

As for conflicts, I think every religion has had those. I can't think of many religions of any real size and population that haven't had conflicts. Religious infighting isn't a good example on either side of the argument and will always be there so long as there are humans populating the earth.

source

That is one source. You should check others including the CIA factbook. Also, you are quoting christians as a whole instead of Catholic populations.

That would be the same as you lumping Muslims together as a whole versus just Catholics exclusively. You would need to say which percentage is either Shia or Sunni in your comparison to make it a valid analogy.

That wasn't the argument. He said that catholics were the majority of the world. I did not state that about muslims. I only added the muslim population in as a reference.

In fact, if you checked the population of Roman Catholics in the world and compared it to Sunni, you would fine that the sunnis have a slightly higher population than the Roman Catholics. I don't know how to paste those charts, but you are free to check the facts for yourself.

Anyway, comparing who is bigger wasn't the original point. He clearly said first Roman Catholics and then just Catholics in general were the majority of the world. This is not the case, so I pointed out the population percentages. There was never a reason to put sunni/shia populations if you had closely studied the argument Now, if he had argued that Christians as a whole were the largest religion in the world. I would have agreed though they are not the majority since that would require going over 50 percent of the world population.

Running commentary:

Her explanation of Christianity doesn't even jive with Catholic dogma, let alone the Bible. FAIL at knowing Christianity.

Fail at knowing about translations (her claim Bibles are all different). Dare her to read the Greek and Hebrew. Dare her to answer where the oldest copy of teh Qu'ran is and how it is 150 years past Mohammed. Surprising that the same logic I hear used (oldest NT is 100-150 years after Yeshua, must have been altered) doersn't apply to the Qu'ran copy. Also interesting that although old source material shows consistency in translation this is often ignored. Also interesting that something remaining unchanged=holy. Does that mean the Illiad and Oddesy are of G-d? Must be!

Fail at knowing the story of Yeshua (can she really be serious? Was she really THAT ignorant?? Even your average agnostic knows more about religion than her, and they aren't even sure G-d exists!)

Fail at knowing the nature of G-d in Christianity(she really thought there were 3 gods?)

Wow. Praying to Mary and the angels. FAIL at knowing her own religion.

FAIL again at understanding original versus translation. I've picked up 2 Qu'rans in English which both use slightly different language. Not being ignorant, I understand the difference between translation and "difference."

So what I have learned from this is, she was never a Christian to begin with, she never understood or even had a clue about the Bible, sounds like she never even read it-- she's making some very interesting assertions which directly contradict the Bible, she still never bothered to learn about it and then continued in her general ignorance until she converted to Islam. Sorry, you'll have to find a more knowledgable source than that to make an impact. I cannot respect a source that doesn't even have a basic knowledge of a religion before it criticises it. Just because you know something doesn't mean you have to agree with it-- but making things up as you go along never really works when it comes to arguing your point.

Do Muslims really watch this and think she knows what she's talking about? Interesting.

He said Catholics, which was wrong, but then you stated Muslims were greater and acknowledged Catholics were just a sect and that he was using the entirety of Christians as a population source. I was saying to make your analogy true (and not a mirror of his) you'd need to break it up is all. Best to not mirror the faulty argument

Islam (Sunni) is growing faster than Christianity through both birth and conversion rates, so if it has surpassed Catholicism it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I didn't watch the video myself as my computer is having problems with loading them at this time. Not that I would watch it anyway since I've found converts to and from Christianity usually have a narrow view and usually don't understand their original religion to begin with. I know that I didn't understand Christianity well when I was a Christian though the few questions I wanted answered never were by any religious authorities I inquired with. I went with the religion that spoke to my heart. I think everyone has to do that. I wouldn't judge anyone for their religious preference as long as they don't force theirs on me. That is why I love living in America is everyone has the right to worship as they wish. It is better to see the good things in all religions and let the differences go. One of my best friends is an American Indian and has a completely different belief system. I may not agree with it, but you know she is one of the nicest people I have met so why would I judge her? My brother has done very little good in his life, but recently he has become a very strong Christian and cleaned himself up. If Christianity is what it takes to get him on the right track than I couldn't be happier. It goes the same for some new muslims. They led really bad lives before they converted and then really became much better people after.

Let people be the religion that feels right in their heart. If people have questions about Islam then I do my best to answer them, but I always tell them from the beginning that I don't want to influence their religious preference in any way. I just prefer to say what I know so they can be better informed on what Islam is. Why must we spend so much time shooting other religions down?

OK, about the first video-- so, basically, I get from it that her teachers were iditos using circular logic and she figured that out. So? Being and idiot isn't a function fo your religion. That seems to be a personal trait.

Where did I say that muslims were greater in that quote? I only stated the population of muslims. There was no analogy. I am sorry you took it that way. I hope this clarifies it for you and I will be more careful with my wording next time.

Exactly. All I saw was a completely misinformed/ignorant individual using her lack of knowledge to explain why she converted... which to me doesn't really hit the spot. If someone told you they converted from Islam to, say, Judaism because Allah in the Qu'ran told people to kill all kuffar and beat their wives and have sex with slaves, would you put much stock in their testimony? I don't ever mind answering questions, but using ignorance to try to sway opinions is a pet peeve of mine. I'd rather hear someone just say they don't believe in it because they "just don't" rather than either make something up or use a completely misinformed and WRONG set of statements. I'd never respect someone who told me that they thought Islam was incorrect because of the above fake example. Same as I don't respect creationists who make up fake fossilized fingers and dinosaur/human prints in their backyard to "prove evolution wrong." Just say you don't believe in it-- no need to make stuff up. Just makes you look bad I'd also rather hear, any day, that someone "doesn't know." How refreshing! No one knows all the answers! It's nice to hear someone admit it.



That's what I meant-- population was greater-- sorry, it appears *I* was unclear, not you!

I am glad we can both agree there. Good points there, by the way. I think some people have to somehow justify their actions and try to convince others of it. If you are truly sure of your religion and happy in it, you don't need to defend it to others.

Oh, we agree 100% on this point! I think that if you have to justify your actions or "make" (invent) proof, then it's YOUR faith which has problems. It's also insulting, IMO, to G-d-- as if He didn't do a good enough job, so you'll come along and "help."

Excellent post. Well said.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but first off, I'm a she Secondly, I was posting the Wikipedia graph to show that there is nearly (at least from this source in 2005) the same percentage of Muslims as there is Christians.

I am Catholic, but I would never claim the world is Mostly Catholic, because that's just silly.

My graph was not meant to spark controversy, but to point out the close similarities in the population percentage.

excellent post!

I second that...

PWNED!

I was married to a catholic for 10 years and witnessed him and others in his family praying "thru" Mary and saints which is the same as praying "to" them. I have also heard many christians in my lifetime asking the angels to guard them and that's a form of praying to them as well... unless you've had toe good fortune to be face to face with an angel to ask in person

Also, the Quran is readily available in its original form and language. We don't have to rely 100% on the English interpretations but we also recognize that those aren't exact translations but interpretations of the meanings of the Arabic words. Most "English" Qurans have the Arabic side by side with the English and when we memorize it, we do so in Arabic, not English. Can you say the same for the original of the bible? Also, how many christians in the world today read/write/understand a single word in Hebrew or Greek to check for themselves?

DITTO!

According to scripture praying to someone other than G-d is not allowed-- it is Church tradition that this is counting as intercessory prayer, which may have come from the Early Europoean belief of the dead haunting those whom they know-- a "saint" would be more powerful than that, and would be able to do this for anyone. It is incorrect though. I'm also not interested in speaking to an angel un;less one spoke to me-- and the only reason it would do that is because it had something to say from G-d. You can ask G-d for angels, but you cannot ask angles for angels.

You do not have to rely 100% on English translations of the Bible. I have both copies of Hebrew and Greek. they are available-- and the Qu'ran's oldest copy is 150 years after Mohammed's narration.. and then it was standardized 50 years after that from the oral traditions. I fail to see how this is different. It is pot calling the kettle.

You can choose to memorize the original languages themselves. You can choose to read them. Most muslims I have met cannot actually read arabic, but pray and memorize Qu'ran which they do not really understand-- it has to be translated for them. How is this any better? Just because epople choose not to learn a language doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also again-- you are touting there being this old copy and memorization as equaling unchanged and holy evidence. Many things have remained unchanged in their passing through in generations, and copies of the NT. etc exist which are 150 or less years older than the time of Yeshua. How is this any different?

It is interesting to look at the history of the New Testament and how it came about. There were actually many different versions because different areas ended up with different chapters of the Bible. The first type of Bible (New Testament) was put together between 52 and 100 AD. It was mostly written in greek though some parts were also written in Aramaic.

The New Testament Cannon Version did not come out until between 350 and 400 AD. This version would be closer to the current versions out today. It only contained 27 of the original 45 chapters found in its earlier version.

The first english language Bible came out in 1535 AD although the well known King James version was not out until 1611.

Those that wish to defame Islam will say the Quran was not written down and is not accurate. They spread this word to put doubt in people about the Quran. A close study of the history of the Quran and how it was written and memorized will prove those people incorrect. Of course everyone believes what they want to and it isn't my job to tell you what to think. In case you would like a reference though, here is one you may check though there are many others.

http://www.albalagh.net/kids/history/quran_compilation.shtml

Hmm....strange.....

http://islamtomorrow.com/


Yusuf Estes who was a "real" christian, and many other preachers and priests who became Muslim.

If anyone is interested.

uh-huh, and what happens if a muslim converts to christianity????

oh yea, thats right--- death

meanwhile, if youre going to through websites out there about how great islum is, there are
just as many to counter and to show whats really going on.

http://islam-watch.org/index.html

It is Islam... not Islum. Thank you.

Religion kills, and it is used to control the masses, what happened to love and peace I think you have it turned around it isn't the atheists that do what makes them feel good, that is a little judgmental, I am not feeling the compassion here.

"It is the setting of the mind, not on questions, but on the mantra "I am right, you are wrong, "whose ultimate goal of unreason is "I am right; you are dead!"' Tahar Djaout "The Last Summer of Reason"

No offense anyone but the woman in that video isn't all there.. I don't think all her dogs are barking any more.

The conflict back home for the record wasn't just protestants vs catholics.. that's what the brit propaganda machine was pishin out for the best part of 30+ years. It was a whole lot more about brits trying to justify their theft, rape and destruction of yet another part of the world to the world while trying to pass them selfs off as the "peace keepers".. pathetic.. and I'm sad to say the same thing is now happening in Iraq and other regions of the world..

Anytime my Husband tries to show me this crap and say he's not pushing Islam on me I want to vomit. Just like I want to voimt when I see VW and Mohammad flirting like that.

Keep strong girl, education is freedom baby

Binge and Purge.

It's clear she had little understanding of Christianity. If she DID, she would be either an Agnostic or Atheist. I certainly never get more laughs, when my Christian side of the family tries to push their religious crap on me, how they scramble to explain the blatant cherrypicking and hypocrisy laden in their own religious writings.

Anyways, just as a view from the outside of these religions, watching inter-religious fighting is like watching two blind people try to duel, swinging away at each other like a blindfolded person at a pinata.

That's one way of putting it, I rekon.