The point I got from it is that you reject Islam due to erroneous information you have received. If it's not correct, are you open to the possibilty that that is true? Or, are you more interested in holding on to negative views of the faith your SO holds to?

I have to get back to you on this because it's pretty deep and I want to give a thoughtful reply.

yeah olivia it does get deep and i dont think God ever asked for religion to be a fight when it all boils down to it he knows our hearts.and he knows who loves him and who is a non beliver.God is all knowing and a loving God.and maybe people fight because they love God also i know its strange.but like i said he knows our hearts right friends

Kewl. Thoughtful is good.

God knows our hearts? Is that a Christian thing?

OHHHHHHHHH my God girl you dont know that.it should be in the quran to.do u think he does not know our hearts

My muslim husband says the same thing.

says what.sweetie

Sorry I guess that did come off a little vague! I meant to say that my muslim husband says that God knows our hearts.

I know that Allah calls for us to act on His Intent, for we are His Caliphs on earth. It's not about your hearts, it's about your acts. We are not to hold what we believe like a secret inside, but make it known in the actions we take.

i agree i didnt mean it that way.God created us so he knows our actions and our hearts for we are his children am i not correct about that.

i can surly say there is alot of God loveing people in thsi topic and you know what God bless you all.and may you have many many good blessings bestow you everyday.he is wonderful and amazing .and there is no other God but our wonderful God.you all should be so proud for even talking about God like we are doing and shareing with others about him.makes him pleased.and we will be rewarded for our shareing of him.i hope i am right i dont want to sat anything wrong but thats how i feel.

Yes, I feel that that you are correct in that He knows our hearts because we are his children.

Amen sister

Islam doesnt place God in the role of "father" to His "children". God in Islam doesn't have a son, either, but there are plenty of other things we have in common with our ahl al kitab brethren.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE talking about God!

I'm curious about what Islam teaches about humility and pride?

What it teaches about humility and pride can be divided into the general and the situational. Do you have a scenario you are especially curious about?

well i guess u can believe what u want but well.my father is in heaven and that father is God.he created me.so he is my heavenly father.and i want to say i love you father for creating me.and the family i have.i give all the thanks and glory to who.ohhhhhhh yeah my father in heaven.

I'm just more curious about in general. How would Islam describe being a humble person or a prideful person?

I don't believe what I want. I believe in the Divine Message as related by the Prophets of God. It's no big deal to me if someone refers to God as "father"; it's just not a doctrine of the scripture I follow.

*translation-woman of the 'word'.

Well, first of all, Islam means submission to the Will of God. As Muslims, we are to suppress our baser urges and accept that there is a Will greater than our own that has the power to guide us to God. Islam is also the "Middle Way", neither extreme nor complacent. We are to strive to acchieve moderation in all things, but also to maintain the law for an orderly society. Islam is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. It is accepted that there is more than one path to Him, and that not everyone will be in the same path at the same places. As such, diversity of thought is allowed, but not in a way that distracts from one's service to God and His Creation. When that happens, we are following desire, not God.

(That actually does not apply here and is taken out of context).


In general? All religions answer the same questions: Who we are, where we are going, where have we been, and what should we do.

Does that create peace? It just doesn't sound peaceful. It sounds quite oppressive.

your right it does

What is your prefered alternative?

O, and if God is your father, do you trust Him enough to submit to His Will?

Is that reciting word even?

I've seen Muslims use it too as a "Allah knows your intentions" and Conservative Jews, etc. I think it's something that floats in and out of all religions, personally, and possibly in relation to the social changes of the '50s through the '70s in the US.

But no, it doesn't wash with the Bible at all. The only part where your sin is reduced is for unintentional sin... sometimes. It's like the difference between manslaughter and murder. Still a punnishment though.

I've seen Muslims use it, too, but usually when they're trying to justify a sin without admitting it's a sin.

What are the different punishments?

There is a time when it is a valid statement in the Bible, but it has to do with those who give the outward relgious appearance but inside they have a corrupt heart. Otherwise, yes, it is used in the manner in which you speak above-- usually in relation to either why someone is not or thinks they don't have to follow a commandment of G-d.

Please elaborate. I'm not sure what you mean.

reciting scripture? what is it called reciting Quran?

The Quran refers to them as "hypocrites" and doesnt speak kindly of them.

I'm not giving the explantions verbatim from the text, but what I've offered can be substantiated.

Peace and being present with yourself and those around you, in other words, being with God. Like I mentioned before, religion can get you there and it can also take you away from being there.

Between murder and manslaughter or in general? in general, I'd have to cut and past the majority of the Torah for you Between the two, it is as follows:

Exodus (Sh'mot) 21:12-14

12He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.
13But if he did not lie in wait for him, but G-d let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you a place to which he may flee.

14If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die.

(cut out of Biblegateway because it;s easier than retyping)



Same language, same word used... but that's usually when the heart is spoken of the most, secondly would be in relation to the law, thirdly would be in relation to faithfulness.

Thank you for that. May I ask, does your belief system have guidelines, limits, directives?

Very very much. It's quite similar to Islam in many ways.

Then, why did you see what I posted about humility as oppressive?

i think you misunderstand her .
cause my fiancee know that the children will born Muslims like me and i will teach them about Islam for sure and take them with me to the mosque ....(so they will be muslins)
all what she was talking about it at some pionts when they will be old enough maybe when they will be adults and if they want to convert we will not force them .actually you can't force anyone to convert to another religion or you can't force anyone to don't convert to another religion.
thats what she was talking about .

I don't believe Mohammed missed the point at all. I think we are all aware that we can't control what our children do when they are grown. This conversation is more focused about changing a marriage contract to reflect that a muslim man will allow his child to be raised in another religion. Its very clear that won't happen. As VW and Mohammed have said, this is deep rooted in arab culture. Its not just muslims that observe this either.

That doesn't mean things don't happen out of the norm, but what Mohammed is talking is the norm and is what is accepted by the culture and society in Egypt and most MENA countries. I plan to raise my children as Christians and baptize them, however I can't guarantee that somehwere down the road they won't become buddhists. However I don't plan on raising them in any other religion.

And you will find it is this way in every Muslim majority nation- from North Africa to Indonesia. It happens here among american Muslims.

i still believe you cant control your children.and i wont.i mean we wont with our children.againi say if my child ever says mom i want to be christian.we will not refuse that even though the father will be muslim.or if we have a girl.and she will ask me mom i want to marry a christian man.we will not refuse her.love is love no matter what religion.again i say we are all Gods children.some religions are so controlling.i am christian and he is a muslim.and yeah my mom had doubts at first.my family did.but they learned to love him.they had hard feelings about him livivng so far away.and also being a muslim.and me and mohamed had had our fights about alot of things about religion.people and friends religion is not that way.who is better then who.what religion will be in heaven which will not.who goes to hell.no one knows but our father in heaven.againnnnnnnn he knows our hearts and lives and souls.we are here to live a good life for God.and live as he wants us to in a Godly manner.and to believe and worship in his name.friends it dont matter what religion because at the end it is not up to us who goes.its up to God and how we lived our lives for him.if you are christian or muslim.lets not argue or fight about religion.we all just want to live in peace and a life for God.so it dont matter what our children will be as long as it is a godly believer.we the believers will be with our father.God bless you all and have a wonderful day

Tenderheart, your fiancee was born Muslim, too, but she isn't Muslim. We know that people born Muslim, even in Muslim families, don't become Muslim just because they're parents are, anymore than people become Christian or Jewish just because their parents were. This is even true of children, who may go to masjid or temple or church and NEVER be what their parents are, or a parent is.

In free societies like the US, this is even more true. Children can choose to believe other than their parents, or one parent's beliefs. That is why scholars are against Muslims marrying non-Muslims in the west because the likihood of their children rejecting Islam is high, and even moreso if the father is Muslim and not the mother. When you have parents who are of competing faiths, the majority faith or no faith at all, is more likely to win out. Even in majority Muslim or majority Christian countries, many give only lip service to being part of the faith. They are, in practice, cultural Christians or cultural Muslims; their actual practice is secular.

[quote name='Olivia*' post='1969946' date='Jun 27 2008, 04:47 PM'
It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?
[/quote]

Well, as a practicing Catholic, we are supposed to only marry practicing Catholics, but if we choose to marry someone who is not of our faith, that person has to honor that we are free to practice our faith and that any children we have as part of our union will be raised as Catholics. It is called "disparity of worship" and it is pretty intense...

Disparity of worship or disparity of cult (Disparitas Cultus) is a diriment impediment in Roman Catholic canon law: a reason why a marriage can not be validly contracted without a dispensation, stemming from one person being certainly baptized, and the other certainly not baptized.

The reasons for this impediment is that the marriage will not be a sacrament with one spouse unbaptized, that the unbaptized person's views on marriage may be incompatible with the Catholic views, and that such a marriage may hinder the practice of religion on part of the Catholic spouse and any children.

Disparity of worship does not affect the marriage of a Catholic or baptized non-Catholic with one whose baptism, even after careful investigation concerning the baptismal ceremony or its validity, remains doubtful. Neither does it in any way influence the marriage of two who, after diligent examination, are still considered doubtfully baptized.

A marriage between a Catholic and another, baptized person not a Catholic, is a mixed marriage. Though sometimes referred to by this term, the permission of the bishop is required merely to make the union licit; the marriage is valid but illicit without it.

Disparity of worship can be dispensed for grave reasons, and on the promises (usually written) from the spouses: the unbaptized not to interfere with the spouse's practice of religion or the raising of the children in religion, the Catholic to practice the Catholic religion and raise the children in it.

Thanks for the clarification Staashi!

i agree no foce but not accept . will not accept them to convert as i wont accept daughter to date and has bf . it is same


u got it right . i was talking about the roots and tradition in general and sure every one will like to raise his kids on his own religion so the fights will start from here