Ok...here's how it started: my wife and I were driving around the other day and we stopped to fill up on gas. As I'm standing there watching my paycheck disappear, she hit me with a 'what if' that made me seriously re-think our strategy and plans for our future.

"At what point is it too expensive to live in America?"

Now being married to a VN woman, frugality is definitely an artform as well as a way of life, so I expected this question to rear up at some point...but so soon? We've only been married a little more than a year, and doing well (thanks for asking) but living in Cali, gas prices are getting so high its like a weekly kick to the, uhm (to be clean), stomach. To spend almost $100 a week (which is getting off easy to some) on gas and not being able to save it or, better yet, 'donate' it to my in-laws (insert dripping sarcasm here), is driving me a little crazy. News is it aint gonna get better over the summer and possibly $5/gallon by Christmas. So the question begs, when does it seem like life in VN might be easier? I picture life there as I've vacationed...less stressful, well fed, and filled with days in a hammock sipping on a Nuoc Mia teaching the local kids stupid magic tricks and American slang.

As a petitioner, how many days have you spent dreaming of being with your sweetheart? So why not in VN instead of in America, at least part time? I ask all of you: At what point would you consider moving and beginning a new life in another country, just as your better halves are doing or did already? I often think it'd be exciting!

Something to consider and think about....

If I could think of a really good business idea, where I could make the equivalent of my US salary, I'd do it in a minute. Don't get me wrong, I love America. We have a lot of freedoms we take for granted.

Actually this is kind of funny, when the FLDS polygamist sect thing broke a little while back Ngoc couldn't understand how the committee allowed it to happen. Didn't they inspect the houses? I was like Honey, people can't just come into your house in America for no reason. The concept was totally alien to her. So while the grass may look greener, remember what you will also be giving up in addition to what you are gaining.

Having lived in Malaysia for two years as a kid, after a while you will long for the US. Warts and all. There is no place like it on earth. And that is partially why a lot of us are stuck in the situation we are. People are desperate to come to the US and will do it any way they can, creating problems for folks like us who have legitimate cases.

So I guess its a glass half full kind of scenario. Sometimes it looks really appealing to me to try and just live in Vietnam. But then I think about how materialistic I am, and my love of central air conditioning, driving a car (even at $4.25 a gallon), and so many things we take for granted. The reality is that although Vietnam is really great, it won't be like vacationing if you have to live there and earn a living. It will be tough hard work, and as a foreigner a lot of the laws are stacked against you.

I don't know if I made any sense at all.

as i was reading this i was waiting for the punch line... man i really hope your not really gonna do that. there is plenty of reasons why i woulnd NOT move to Vn.
#1 i like to live a FREE life, thats what our soldiers have fought and died for
#2 just two words, "free trade" if your republican you should know what i mean. Vn is a socialist country and i dont want to be forced to be a democrat *sarcasm*
#3 do you really think they will accept you at a citizen there? im sure it all seem fine and dandy when ur on vacation there, Vn loves you then because your bringing plenty of USD to spend over there.
#4 ever wonder why EVERYONE in the world wants to come here? there must be a good reason for it! i dotn think they want to come live here for cheap gas.
#5 this list could go on for pages and pages!


pasaitoh your post makes perfect sense! even if gas was 10 a gallon there is NO way im leaving the US. the US has it flaws too but im more than happy to go vote and help with making changes here.

The only place I would ever spend my time with my wife in VN is Da Lat, because of its weather. You would have to PAY me a huge amount of money before I would consider to spend any of my time in Saigon. Why? People are everywhere! Gosh, I feel like getting trapped in an ant colony! Furthermore, people smoke just way too much overthere!

Like Icarus, I too have thought long about living in VN...Yes, you would be giving up some comforts and social freedoms that come from living in USA, but the cost of living there is very good relative to a US salary.

The trick is having your finances here relative to the COL there. HCMC is a fairly cosmopolitan city, I like it better than Manila or Bangkok because the VN clamp down on the sex trade and terrible child exploitation more so than than the latter countries...yes, there is significant graft and corruption, but they are tech savvy and hardworking business and entrepreneurship to be found...

Yes, it is a communist country, and I am not an apologist for that, I'm as red-blooded americano as they come.. but I actually enjoyed my time in VN for the (4) times I visited, I could see myself being en ex-pat there but my plans are to move their after retirement, I have children from prior marriage to care for before I move to VN. Just my 2 cnts.........

-Guy&Hoa

Great post, Icarus. I met my wife while I was an ex-pat living in HCMC for nearly two years. It had its pros and cons, but I'd go back again with the right opportunity. Living in HCMC really changed my life, and helped me realize how much I took for granted being an American and living in the United States.

Below are links to some Vietnam Ex-Pat Blogs that I still keep up with from time to time. Thought you may enjoy reading.

orangwutang

Antidote to Burnout

charvey in Vietnam (Chris is General Director, Vietnamworks.com)

The Final World

Saigon Files

SaigonNezumi

Virtual Doug

25% inflation in May........typical "Crash and burn".....then rebuilt again.

Maybe the "noise" will decrease :-)

P

rebuild

Thanks for the post. You taught English there didn't you? I'm leaving in November and plan on staying there a few years.

I am intrested in what your plans are for what you will do for income once you are there and what you will do with your responsibilities here befroe you go. My brother told me that I should just take out a second mortgauge on my house and then just leave. I am not sure that is a good option but there has to be a middle ground. I was a US Marine and I am all for America but I just can not stop thinking about living there. It has been almost a year since my first trip to meet Xuan and I have been back once since. I am not sure I can bring myself to leave if I go back for another visit.

I'm going to live on savings initially and then try to find work teaching English. I don't own a home and have minimal expenses, so it's fairly simple for me. I've withheld the I-130 and plan on filing a year or so after I get there. The USCIS has a field office there, but there is a one year residency requirement.

If things don't work out I will be leaving my job on good terms. They always need drivers.

I actually wasn't an English teacher, however, there are many ex-pats in HCMC that are teaching English. My wife studied English at Hoi Viet My in Tan Binh District and really enjoyed her time there. The first blog I listed, orangwutang, I believe he is teaching law at RMIT on the Saigon South campus. He has some interesting teaching perspective.

STL_HCMC

STL- THanks for the links!! I've got some reading ahead! And thanks to the other posters, as I'm very interested in other point of views when it comes to this, but let me steer the topic back a little as I think this is a real interesting conversation for the VN VJers. Its simply this:

At what point is too expensive to live in the US? For the first time in my life, I find myself looking at the economy and worrying about a depression greater than 1929. We all have our individual exit strategy (probably better thought out than our militarys) but, what would compel you to live in VN? Would it be $5/gallon gas or the economy, another terrorist attack, losing your house to a flood, or a request from your spouse?

But to some of the posters that state patriotism as their reason for staying and never leaving the US, this isn't about flag waving, or specific basic rights given to us at birth...it's about making a choice with your significant other to have the best quality of life available. Yes, I believe we have more choices available to us here and much more personal freedoms, BUT at what cost financially or physically? Anyways, what do you all think?

Being with my Wife is my only motivation for relocating there. They could deny the Visa as much as they want. We'll simply wait it out.

im guessing your pretty young?? if you have been around for a few major elections you should know by now the economy ALWAYS slumps around this time. everyone is just too dam scared to get out and spend money now. this time next year the US will be fine again. have you really thought about how much different it will be living there? my fiancee has been here for 1 week now and she just told me last night she is 1000% sure she does not want to ever live in Vn again, she just wants to go on vacations there. that alone tells me i dont want to live there. i also just learned another fact about living in Vn, they dont have the right to own a fire arms. im not really a gun freak but i do own one and i happen to like being able to own it.

If I could find a moblie income, ie a real online business that could be run from US or Vietnam which makes a income compable to the real job in the US that I have, Thi and I would spend time in both Vietnam and US. We want to have enough of income so we could keep my house here and stay for extended periods in Vietnam with her family. The reason for wanting to live over there is more based on her family than on how much it costs here or in Vietnam. We both miss her family even tho she chats with them every night. My Vietnamese is still too limited to chat with them since we're spending most of our "language" time on English. I enjoy listening and find myself hearing and understanding more when they chat.

I have no desire to "permanently leave" the US and neither does Thi. Living here regardless of the price of gas, etc is still better than any other place I know of. Also there's another potential problem about moving to Vietnam to live, Here's what the USCIS has to say about this:

"You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

* Move to another country intending to live there permanently.
* Remain outside of the US for more than one year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
* Remain outside of the US for more than two years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
* Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the US for any period.
* Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns."


Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26
I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11
I-129F RFE(s) :
RFE Reply(s) :
I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26
Touched: 2007-11-02
NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16
Consulate recieved ??????
Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11
Packet 3 received 2007-12-24
Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28
Packet 4 sent 2008-1-14
Email Reply with Interview Date 2008-1-23
Interview Date 2008-2-27
Passed Interview 2008-02-27
Visa Pick Up Date 2008-3-05
Received Visa 2008-2-29 (called to pick up earlier)
POE 2008-3-05 Los Angeles
Wedding 2008-4-26

I don't mean to point out the obvious, but how about getting out of Southern California? Things get a LOT cheaper quickly.

My breaking point would be repeated requests from my wife. However, I would have to leave behind a son, and run away from some debt which I could not possibly repay on a Vietnam salary. Neither of these is really morally acceptable.

Actually, Don, I'm 40. I'm an entrepeneur and a world traveller. I'm not an alarmist, but am seeing a lot of changes in this country recently and I find it interesting. I came of age in the Reagan era and remember how everyone seemed to prosper. I became business literate as the dot com fantasys burst and now I'm planning a family as many skirt around the word 'depression'. I've been around for many elections, and NEVER seen the economy slump as much as it has now. Know anyone who is considering abandoning their home because of interest rates? I know a few. I've never seen gas, food, or entertainment expenses as high as they are now. So the question stemmed from the sudden realization that we all have a back door to a second life in VN. So what would it take in your life that would make it seem viable to enter that door? For me, I've got what some may romanticize as the ideal internet job, but even with this business, there is no long term security. I too would also miss too many comforts of home and the freedoms available to us here (not much for the right to arm bears, but do appreciate free speech quite a bit) to fully allow myself to live there full time. Melrose and Peter both make good points about obligations and green card requirements being anchors to the US, and I'm not really talking about becoming an expat, even tho I admire STL and others for taking that leap. I think more of a pattern whereas I could take 'long, extended vacations' to VN and have work when I get there, but still retain my US identity, while living abroad. Utilizing VN as a base I can see visiting China, Thailand, Australia, and that part of the world. Sure, this may all be fantasy and conjecture, but now that I've gotten Nhu here, anything seems possible!!

The current economic downturn has no correlation with the upcoming American election.

1.) Vietnam Banks have stop lending money for real estate
2.) The HCMC stock market has lost 50% this year
3.) 25% price inflation in May
4.) VNs Petrol is roughly the same price as USA, 15,000vnd/liter
Further reading: http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/

The VNs economic correction is coming, stay tuned.......... but, long-term VN will be OK........

I plan to retire in VN in 20 years :-)

Are you Able to Collect Social Security While Living in another country?

Social Security Rules Vary Based on Circumstances

In general, the Social Security Administration (S.S.A.) allows eligible individuals living outside of the United States to collect Social Security retirement payments in their country of residence. There are exceptions to the rule, however.

For example, your eligibility to collect Social Security benefits overseas may be affected by your foreign citizenship status and by whether or not you receive dependent or survivor benefits. And regardless of your citizenship, the U.S. Treasury Department forbids the S.S.A. to send payments to retirees living in Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, or certain countries that were once part of the Soviet Union.


http://finance.yahoo.com/how-to-guide/retirement/29149#c1

This is an interesting topics that I've thought for a while. I don't know about any1 else, but this is what I'll do in 20 years. By this time, my 401k plus SS check should be plenty. I like the fact that when I get old, I still have social interaction in VN, example hang out at cafe with old friends without having to worry about anything and hire a mate to cook and clean. I like the fact that food and services in VN is very cheap compare to here in the US and the buy power of the dollars.

I'm dreaming of building a small to medium US retiree community with all amenities available in VN.

i would love to live in vietnam.im just a blue collar guy and right now at 45 i dont know how i will even live to retirement age much less work till then. i hurt. my plan is to finish paying off my house and sell it and move to vietnam in about 10 years or so and cruze through till i can get my retirement money.so i got a little time to think about it.

I just revisited this post Peter. Thanks for this information. I can imagine me losing my citizenship. Wouldn't that be a hoot! It appears that paying taxes on all income earned alleviates any problems. The returning resident visa appears to be for naturalized citizens. I'm looking into it now.