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Olivia*
In Egypt, "Prostitue" Is a Slippery Term

By L.L. Wynn, American Sexuality Magazine. Posted June 26, 2008
.

In Egypt the label "prostitute" is often applied to women who defy traditional social and sexual codes of conduct. Otherwise known as "whore".



It was 2000 and I was at a dinner party in Cairo. I was sitting with *Malak, a belly dancer, and we were eyeing up a young woman who had large oval eyes thickly lined with black kohl and a wide mouth painted salmon. It was the first time Malak and I had seen her at Haroun's house. After she'd been introduced around to the group of friends -- dancers, actresses, businessmen, and me, an American anthropologist -- that met every Thursday night for drinks and dinner, Malak looked her up and down skeptically, and then she said to me in a low voice, "She's a prostitute. Look, obviously that vulgar man thinks so too, because he wouldn't dare put his hands all over her like that unless he was sure she was a prostitute." I shrugged. "You know, Malak, my dear, under the broad definition of 'prostitute' used in Egypt, all of the women here are prostitutes, including you and me." Malak smiled wryly.

It took me a long time to understand what Egyptians meant when they said "prostitute," and during the first year of my anthropological fieldwork, I was plenty confused. Every time the word "prostitute" came up in conversation, I listened carefully to try to understand the context and how it was being used. It seemed to have to do with behavior, dress, social class, and sexual experience. But it wasn't until I could finally shed my own cultural preconceptions about prostitution fundamentally being tied up with money and sex that I finally understood what my Egyptian friends meant.

When 'Sex' Tourism Doesn't Necessarily Involve Sex



I didn't come to Egypt intending to study prostitution. I was studying tourism and the way people interact across cultures. To that end, I had decided to compare Western tourism and Gulf Arab tourism in Egypt (the countries considered part of the Arab Gulf include Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates).

Gulf Arab tourists mostly come to Cairo in the summer months to escape the heat in their own countries, and I documented lots of family vacations and dating between Gulf men and women. I had good access to Gulf tourists: I had previously lived in Saudi Arabia, and I met up with my Saudi friends when they came to Egypt on vacation. We would go to restaurants and movies and nightclubs. Some of my Saudi friends dated each other, while others were already married. One couple got engaged while they were on vacation in Cairo. Their vacation was one long party, and in many ways they transgressed Saudi cultural norms about male-female socializing, but it was all pretty chaste.

But that's not what my Egyptian friends thought. Instead of youthful dating, they imagined that Saudis came to Egypt to drink, visit prostitutes, and do everything else that was forbidden back in Saudi Arabia. It was in the context of talking with Egyptian friends about my research on Gulf tourism that the issue of prostitution first came up. If I said that I was going to such-and-such a nightclub to observe, and that nightclub was known to be a hangout for Gulf Arabs in the summer, my friends would all try to dissuade me: "Don't go there, men will harass you. They'll think you're a prostitute." Knowing, as I did, that my Saudi friends came to Egypt for fairly wholesome vacation fun, I thought this was an interesting allegation. I wondered: Why were these Egyptians (who never had any personal contact with Saudi tourists) convinced that Saudis were coming to Egypt to find prostitutes?

So I started paying close attention to Egyptian assertions about the link between Gulf tourism and prostitution as part of my research.

'Prostitution' and Social Class

But soon I noticed people talking about "prostitution" in contexts that had nothing to do with tourism. One night I was at a restaurant with a group of upper-middle class Egyptian friends. One of them, Ayman, was twirling his fork on the table when suddenly he said to me, "Look, Lisa, a case study." With the fork he pointed in the direction of two women with short hair who were sitting at a table in the corner.

"You really think they're prostitutes?" Case study had become our code word for a prostitute because of my academic interest in the subject.

Lina looked over and agreed with Ayman. "Definitely case studies."

"I just don't see it," I said with some frustration. "What is it about them that makes you identify them as prostitutes?"

The others couldn't point out anything specific. But they were positive that these women were indeed "prostitutes."

"Look, there must be something that makes you say 'that's a prostitute.' There must be something that you all see with your cultural knowledge that I don't see. Try to analyze it. Try to explain it to me so I can see through your eyes."



Ayman just shrugged, but Lina made an attempt. "It's a lot of things -- they way they look, the way they dress, their makeup, their attitude, the expressions on their face, their body language ... "

Lina's boyfriend, Zeid, added, "And it's a combination of these things and not one alone -- for example, you couldn't say that someone is a prostitute just from the way she's dressed because someone else could expose just as much skin and people would think she looks like a decent, respectable girl."

I was skeptical. "So we're making up a story about them for ourselves, but we don't know for sure. Probably lots of people look at us and say the same things about me too."

"No, you don't look like a prostitute. First of all, you're always with the same people, in a mixed group of men and women. The worst they might think is that you're the girlfriend of one of the guys in the group, but we don't sit close together or touch, so they probably wouldn't even think that. Second of all, your makeup isn't like those women. They're wearing thick black kohl all around their eyes, top and bottom. Third of all, your clothes are more decent -- you cover up more than they do."

"Okay, maybe tonight I'm covered up, but sometimes I show more skin."

"Still, not like the way they're dressed. And you never wear short skirts." Zeid furrowed his brow as he watched the two women walk towards the bathroom. "Okay, look, I found one thing that I can point out about those women. You see that one that's wearing the short sleeveless dress? Look, you can see her bra underneath the arm-holes. And the hem keeps turning up and showing her slip. Put the two things together and you can see that they aren't used to dressing up and looking comfortable in elegant clothes."

Aha! I thought. These women didn't look like the upper class elite, who were the only kind of women who could be from "respectable" families and still stay out that late and dress in such clothing. Most women from the lower and middle classes would not be allowed by their families to stay out so late, dress skimpily, and go to a restaurant with a bar like the one we were at; if they were doing so, it must mean that their families weren't enforcing their daughters' respectability through curfews and close monitoring of their behavior.

More than Money

So I had another clue: The label "prostitute" wasn't just associated with Gulf tourism. It had something to do with social class, and the way that class intersected with taste, dress, makeup, and appearance.

But the next time the word came up, I was confused all over again. It was a couple of weeks later, and I was back at the same restaurant with the same group of friends. Ayman leaned over to me and said, "You see that woman with the long wavy black hair sitting at the end of the bar?"

"The one wearing the skirt with the long slit up to her thigh?"

"Right. This woman is well known for being very wealthy and loose. Her father died and she inherited a lot of money and she has her own apartment and she has sexual relationships with men just for pleasure. She's a prostitute."

Ayman had been speaking in Arabic, but as usual, he used the English word "prostitute." This linguistic code-shifting was used whenever Egyptians wanted to talk about a socially risqué subject without sounding vulgar. No man could politely use the Arabic word sharmouta in mixed company.

"How do you know?" I asked him. "And how do you know her, anyway?"

"I know some of the men who dated her. They told me. But apart from that, it's obvious by the fact that she has her own apartment. A respectable woman does not live alone."

"I live alone."

"You're a foreigner."

"So people will think that I'm not respectable?"

"No, of course not, everyone knows that you don't have a choice. You can't live with your family, and anyway, people here know that family ties aren't so strong in the West and people don't live with their families."

"I'm very close to my family."

He laughed. "Lisa, I'm not talking about you. Don't get so defensive."

"Well, maybe that woman just likes to spend her money and she wants to have her own place instead of living with her mother."

"Yes, and why does she like to have her own place instead of living with her mother? Because she wants to live in a way that she can't live if she's with her mother. Which means she wants to bring men home with her. A respectable woman doesn't live alone. She lives either in her parents' house or in her husband's house."

Two weeks earlier I had thought that I'd put my finger on what my Egyptian friends thought a prostitute looked like. If a woman was out alone late at night and didn't look wealthy enough, inferred through a mixture of her clothes and style of makeup, then she must be a prostitute. The link between prostitution and class was, I thought, obvious: a middle- or upper-class woman didn't need money, so she didn't need to sell her body like a poorer woman might. That also, I thought, explained the association made by many Egyptians between Gulf tourism and prostitution: Gulf Arabs were thought to be fabulously wealthy with oil money. By comparison, most Egyptians were poor. Thus, my friends assumed that Egyptian women who associated with Gulf tourists must be prostitutes.



But this latest revelation by Ayman threw my interpretation into doubt. This woman he was labeling a "prostitute" was independently wealthy. She had no need to sell her sexuality. So what was it that made her a prostitute?

'Respectable' Women Get Paid, Too

Eventually I realized that the reason I was struggling to understand the concept of a prostitute had everything to do with my own preconceptions about sex and money. I thought of prostitutes as women who had sex for money. But as I reflected on my friends' relationships and the role that money played in them, I remembered that all of my Egyptian female friends took money from the men they were dating or married to. It didn't matter whether they were rich or poor, or even whether the men could afford it. No matter what, their boyfriends, fiancés, or husbands paid for evenings out, for doctor visits, and often for luxury items such as jewelry and designer sunglasses. When they married, men paid women a large bride price, a sum of money up to $10,000 that was hers to spend as she liked. Married men usually gave their wives stipends, even if the wives had their own jobs.

In short, it was not the injection of money into a sexual relationship that defined it as prostitution. While everyone agreed that "prostitutes" probably did accept money in exchange for sexual acts, the exchange wasn't seen as fundamentally different from that of an unmarried woman who had sexual relationships with boyfriends who supported her financially. Both were seen as existing on a continuum of immoral sexuality, but that didn't necessarily mean the women were "prostitutes."

Nor was "prostitution" even necessarily about sex, since a woman could be labeled a prostitute when there was no proof that she was sexually active at all. For example, sometimes Zeid and Lina would have disputes over whether a particular friend of Lina's was a "prostitute" or not. Zeid, for example, claimed that one of Lina's childhood friends was a prostitute because she drove around alone after midnight. Lina argued, "She's just bored! She's so innocent, you can't believe it -- she's never even been kissed!"

"I don't care. She's still a prostitute if she's driving around alone after midnight!" Zeid said stubbornly.

What is involved in defining a prostitute in Egypt, then, is a complex moral judgment about a woman's social behavior, the number of her sexual partners, the extent to which she submits to familial controls over her social life, and her loyalty to her current romantic partner. Nationality comes into play in the examples above because of the way it overlaps with class and power in the Middle East: Egyptian women who socialize with Gulf Arab tourists might be thought prostitutes, not necessarily because there's a sex-for-cash exchange taking place (remember: wherever there's a romantic relationship, there's money changing hands), but because the financial-power differential between wealthy men and poorer women suggests to Egyptians that these women's sociability and sexuality -- and thus their respectability -- is no longer controlled by their families. (And all of this explains why, at the dinner party in the home of a wealthy Egyptian man, the belly dancer Malak agreed with me that as long as businessmen were mingling with unattached women, any one of us could be labeled a prostitute.)

Sharmouta, the term that my Egyptian friends from all different classes tended to translate as "prostitute" (but which might be better rendered as "whore"), is a highly pejorative term, and sharply contested. Egyptian women tend to resist the term, like Lina, because they understand how easily it can be used to criticize any woman who defies social codes of female respectability in one way or another. It operates at the intersection of female sexuality and independence. As such, prostitution in Egypt is only partly about sex and money.

* All names have been changed to protect the privacy of informants.

http://www.alternet.org/sex/89597/?page=1" target="_blank"> Source

Aymsgirl
Interesting......
Olivia*
QUOTE(t and a @ Jun 26 2008, 07:00 PM) *
Interesting......



I know. Now I understand why my Husband told me he doesn't want me going out at night while living there.
Jenn!
Yes, that was interesting.

Most of it was an issue of semantics though.
Olivia*
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 26 2008, 07:17 PM) *
Yes, that was interesting.

Most of it was an issue of semantics though.



I guess saying she's a prostitue is better in mixed company than saying she's a whore?
kerewin21
"American Sexuality Magazine"

I guess we now know what Olivia does in her free time ...

tongue.gif
Olivia*
QUOTE(kerewin21 @ Jun 26 2008, 09:31 PM) *
"American Sexuality Magazine"

I guess we now know what Olivia does in her free time ...

tongue.gif



devil.gif Actually just found it googling Egypt news. innocent.gif
morocco4ever
Wow, so by their standards I was a prostitute for 15 years since I was not married and had my own home. Freaky considering I had 4 children and never brought men home.

So going with that thought, why would it be assumed that if a single woman had her own home that she is a prostitute? What if she doesn't like her parents decor?
Carolyn
Sounds a bit like what my husband says about many women in Morocco--though women he labels "bitches" (pronounced more like beaches, hee hee) in Morocco seem to be more clearly women who take money for sex. I asked why I could go to the same nightclubs, cabarets to see belly dancers, etc. and not be labeled a prostitute, he said it was obvious that I was a foreigner and wasn't subjected to the same rules.

Unfortunately, it seems that prostitution is rampant in Morocco, especially for beautiful young women from poor villages--there just aren't enough jobs. So, young women get money (and nice clothes, an exciting lifestyle, etc.) by selling their bodies. Their families just think they have jobs in the touristy cities (Marrakech, Tangier, Agadir, etc.).

I wonder if that is the same in Egypt?
morocco4ever
Sorry to side track this thread, but when you said it was prounounced "beaches" it reminded me of a funny story.

My dad got my husband turned on to cottage cheese with peaches. One day, before I knew he liked it, he said to me. "Sweety, I want some cottage cheese and "bitches". My mouth almost dropped to the floor! rofl.gif
Olivia*
QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Jun 27 2008, 08:51 AM) *
Wow, so by their standards I was a prostitute for 15 years since I was not married and had my own home. Freaky considering I had 4 children and never brought men home.

So going with that thought, why would it be assumed that if a single woman had her own home that she is a prostitute? What if she doesn't like her parents decor?



Did u dress conservativly and wear blk eyeliner around your eyes and let your bra straps show and wear too short skirts and mingle with men at night in public places?
Olivia*
QUOTE(Carolyn @ Jun 27 2008, 09:49 AM) *
Sounds a bit like what my husband says about many women in Morocco--though women he labels "bitches" (pronounced more like beaches, hee hee) in Morocco seem to be more clearly women who take money for sex. I asked why I could go to the same nightclubs, cabarets to see belly dancers, etc. and not be labeled a prostitute, he said it was obvious that I was a foreigner and wasn't subjected to the same rules.

Unfortunately, it seems that prostitution is rampant in Morocco, especially for beautiful young women from poor villages--there just aren't enough jobs. So, young women get money (and nice clothes, an exciting lifestyle, etc.) by selling their bodies. Their families just think they have jobs in the touristy cities (Marrakech, Tangier, Agadir, etc.).

I wonder if that is the same in Egypt?



My Husband and his family said the same thing about me being a foreginer. That I was over their heads and beyond judegment. rolleyes.gif Who knows what ppl were really saying in their mother tounge. The line of thinking there is appauling to me. I can feel when someone is thinking negatively about me in my prescenes and it makes me cringe.

A far as protitutes in our western terms yes Egypt has some at the high priced hotels along the Nile. But there is another kind of trade going on with the young poor women as well. The older rich men from the Arab Gulf will often time come to Egypt to buy a young poor country bride. It was such a problem that Egypt just recently had to put a cap on age limit in marraiges now. A couple can no longer be more than 25 yrs apart in age. This was prompted after a 92 yr old Saudi man wanted to marry an 18 yr old Egyptian girl.

Back to the prostitute thing and calling single women this there just tells me that women rising and having independence is seen as a threat to the patriachy that is ancient there. That is what the anthropological student who did this study was going to get to.

QUOTE(morocco4ever @ Jun 27 2008, 09:54 AM) *
Sorry to side track this thread, but when you said it was prounounced "beaches" it reminded me of a funny story.

My dad got my husband turned on to cottage cheese with peaches. One day, before I knew he liked it, he said to me. "Sweety, I want some cottage cheese and "bitches". My mouth almost dropped to the floor! rofl.gif

laughing.gif
Jenn!
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if I buy the whole "you're a foreigner so it's different" thing. Maybe someone can explain that to me better.

If you're wearing a short skirt, what about that makes it ok and not whore-like being a foreigner as opposed to a local? Because more Americans wear short skirts? Doesn't that just mean that more Americans are whores?

*disclaimer: I don't personally think that these things make one a whore!
LuLu
I use the Arabic S word interchangeably with the English B word when speaking in to people who understand Arabic. There is a stronger word than the Arabic S do describe the money portion of the W word. Anyone care to guess what it is? devil.gif
♥JP♥
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 12:49 PM) *
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if I buy the whole "you're a foreigner so it's different" thing. Maybe someone can explain that to me better.

If you're wearing a short skirt, what about that makes it ok and not whore-like being a foreigner as opposed to a local? Because more Americans wear short skirts? Doesn't that just mean that more Americans are whores?

*disclaimer: I don't personally think that these things make one a whore!


Well I think the reasoning is that MENA girls have a higher expection set by their own society. No one really sets any expectations for a foreigner.

Think about it in a different context. Let's say someone new starts working with you and makes a few mistakes, everyone will say she didn't know better, she's new. However you make a mistake and because you have been there for a long time, there are consequences and judgements being made.
Jenn!
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 12:49 PM) *
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if I buy the whole "you're a foreigner so it's different" thing. Maybe someone can explain that to me better.

If you're wearing a short skirt, what about that makes it ok and not whore-like being a foreigner as opposed to a local? Because more Americans wear short skirts? Doesn't that just mean that more Americans are whores?

*disclaimer: I don't personally think that these things make one a whore!


Well I think the reasoning is that MENA girls have a higher expection set by their own society. No one really sets any expectations for a foreigner.

Think about it in a different context. Let's say someone new starts working with you and makes a few mistakes, everyone will say she didn't know better, she's new. However you make a mistake and because you have been there for a long time, there are consequences and judgements being made.


I see what you're saying. I think though that it's still somewhat insulting to the foreigner. If they thought that what you were doing was really ok, there would be no expectation in their society that it should not be done.

Ok, I've confused myself. laughing.gif
LuLu
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 03:49 PM) *
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if I buy the whole "you're a foreigner so it's different" thing. Maybe someone can explain that to me better.

If you're wearing a short skirt, what about that makes it ok and not whore-like being a foreigner as opposed to a local? Because more Americans wear short skirts? Doesn't that just mean that more Americans are whores?

*disclaimer: I don't personally think that these things make one a whore!



hmmmm, I do think foreigners can get away with wearing things because it's prety normal in their countries....or better use of words...no one makes a big fuss if you a wearing say a tank top and short. In the MENA, the entire street would stop and I am sure there would be many accidents. But I am also 1000% sure you would be harrassed or worse verbally. Me b/c I'm Jordanian and I look like it...except they can tell I am a foreigner from a mile away, could not get away with wearing shorts in some of the smaller towns....and I'm a dude. They wouldn't come up to me and say anything to may face, but I am sure they'd say look at that #(*$&*@$#&*....or something to that effect. But I don't wear shorts there cause I know and people are begining to recognize me and know what family I belong to.

In AMM these days pretty much anything goes. I wonder if the author visited there what he would say that. Girls there wear things so revealing (hijab or not, even with their conservative mom and grandma next to them) that it shocks me who let me tell ya, has seen it all.
♥JP♥
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 01:03 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 12:49 PM) *
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if I buy the whole "you're a foreigner so it's different" thing. Maybe someone can explain that to me better.

If you're wearing a short skirt, what about that makes it ok and not whore-like being a foreigner as opposed to a local? Because more Americans wear short skirts? Doesn't that just mean that more Americans are whores?

*disclaimer: I don't personally think that these things make one a whore!


Well I think the reasoning is that MENA girls have a higher expection set by their own society. No one really sets any expectations for a foreigner.

Think about it in a different context. Let's say someone new starts working with you and makes a few mistakes, everyone will say she didn't know better, she's new. However you make a mistake and because you have been there for a long time, there are consequences and judgements being made.


I see what you're saying. I think though that it's still somewhat insulting to the foreigner. If they thought that what you were doing was really ok, there would be no expectation in their society that it should not be done.

Ok, I've confused myself. laughing.gif

Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.
mybackpages
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.



Do you mean by law or by tradition? foreign women are not required by any law in KSA to cover their hair, but no doing so will result in a great deal of harrassment making it almost law de facto.
Olivia*
I think they accept it from foreginers because tourism brings in money and they don't bite the hand that helps feed them, especially when a foreginer is lotted not to be staying for a long time and not one of their own.
Jenn!
So it's "accepted" but only superficially, only to your face basically.

I mean, I just think it's good to keep in mind, you know?

Olivia*
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 02:45 PM) *
So it's "accepted" but only superficially, only to your face basically.

I mean, I just think it's good to keep in mind, you know?


I think there is some truth to that. For example I was with my Husband at The 6th of October Theme Park celebrating our marriage. I know who goes to a theme park after their wedding? biggrin.gif Well it was EID and while we were there of course a bunch of kids where too and foreigners and it was fun! But at one point my Husband and I are sitting down on a rocking covered bench talking like newlywed lovers do and a group of guys walk by starring at us. My Husband got the darkest look on his face and starred them down like a dog growling at someone he doesn't like. I'd never seen anyone do this in my life!

So I asked him, "What was that about." Then he tried to explain the psychology of the people that were looking at us and the reason for his reaction. But how does he really know what they are thinking unless he thinks it himself sometimes!?
♥JP♥
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 01:19 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.



Do you mean by law or by tradition? foreign women are not required by any law in KSA to cover their hair, but no doing so will result in a great deal of harrassment making it almost law de facto.


I meant by expectation, which as you pointed out doesn't really matter if it's law or not.
mybackpages
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 01:19 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.



Do you mean by law or by tradition? foreign women are not required by any law in KSA to cover their hair, but no doing so will result in a great deal of harrassment making it almost law de facto.


I meant by expectation, which as you pointed out doesn't really matter if it's law or not.


I jsut need my reading glasses today laughing.gif
♥JP♥
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 02:02 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 01:19 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.



Do you mean by law or by tradition? foreign women are not required by any law in KSA to cover their hair, but no doing so will result in a great deal of harrassment making it almost law de facto.


I meant by expectation, which as you pointed out doesn't really matter if it's law or not.


I jsut need my reading glasses today laughing.gif

LOL and I need a cookie. innocent.gif
mybackpages
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 04:03 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 02:02 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 01:19 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.



Do you mean by law or by tradition? foreign women are not required by any law in KSA to cover their hair, but no doing so will result in a great deal of harrassment making it almost law de facto.


I meant by expectation, which as you pointed out doesn't really matter if it's law or not.


I jsut need my reading glasses today laughing.gif

LOL and I need a cookie. innocent.gif


awww you know I can't say no to your cookie requests

Jenn!
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.
Olivia*
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 03:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.



laughing.gif
♥JP♥
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 02:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.

LOL...Jenn if you want to see whores on your birthday you will have to go to the local nudey bar tongue.gif

Jenn!
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 05:15 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 02:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.

LOL...Jenn if you want to see whores on your birthday you will have to go to the local nudey bar tongue.gif




Golden Banana....here I come! kicking.gif
♥JP♥
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 02:10 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 04:03 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 02:02 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 01:19 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Actually I think it's pretty insulting all the way around. But it's good they don't impose their expectations on everyone too. Take Saudi, you have to wear a hijab there. Not my belief but they impose it on everyone.



Do you mean by law or by tradition? foreign women are not required by any law in KSA to cover their hair, but no doing so will result in a great deal of harrassment making it almost law de facto.


I meant by expectation, which as you pointed out doesn't really matter if it's law or not.


I jsut need my reading glasses today laughing.gif

LOL and I need a cookie. innocent.gif


awww you know I can't say no to your cookie requests




I can't wait until Microsoft makes the first scratch-n- sniff screen. crying.gif


QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 02:16 PM) *
QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 05:15 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 02:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.

LOL...Jenn if you want to see whores on your birthday you will have to go to the local nudey bar tongue.gif




Golden Banana....here I come! kicking.gif



I hear they have good food. Isn't that why most of the men go? laughing.gif
mybackpages
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 04:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.



You know how JP feels about cookies! She asks and you have to deliver- no matter what thread you are in- it's a princess thing. tongue.gif
Olivia*
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 03:19 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 04:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.



You know how JP feels about cookies! She asks and you have to deliver- no matter what thread you are in- it's a princess thing. tongue.gif



laughing.gif
mybackpages
It's not just foreigners who are subject to being judged as prostitutes. here's an excerpt from an essay on Berber cultural identity in Morocco:

My mother described Berbers as a rural people, known for being hard bargainers, diligent workers and skillful dancers—dancing and music being an important aspect of Moroccan and Berber culture. However, dancing in many of Morocco’s urban centers is believed to be akin to prostitution. Thus, as my mother hinted, Berber women are described both as strong and hard working as well as sexual and loose. I asked her one day, “Oohmi, ante Shilha?” (“Mom, are you Berber?”), to which she responded by opening her eyes wide and shaking her head. Clearly, this was not a label with which my mother wanted to align herself.

You can read the entire article here, but you have to go through a free online registration.
http://www.glimpse.org/article_577.html


By the way traditional among Berbers in Southern Morocco, prostitution did not have the same stigma that it does in so many places in the world.
julianna
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 03:45 PM) *
So it's "accepted" but only superficially, only to your face basically.

I mean, I just think it's good to keep in mind, you know?

I had asked my husband about this a while back since we're not staying here. he said that they* give "excuses" for foreign girls and men because the thought it basically that they are behaving normally according to their own culture, which is, of course, a loose culture. They basically accept you as you are, but it's with the knowledge that you're A) going away-- you're not a local or living there and B..) Doing the best you can and have no idea what is expected of you anyway. BUT, if you move there or they figure out you're married to one of the locals, then they begin to impose their manners and customs and culture on you, with the thought that you are going to be around and also that your spouse should be teaching you how to behave.. and of course that you should be better than the regular visitors.

*disclaimer: this is small village logic from the north of Jordan which does not always apply everywhere in MENA or even Jordan itself.
Olivia*
QUOTE(julianna @ Jun 27 2008, 05:14 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 03:45 PM) *
So it's "accepted" but only superficially, only to your face basically.

I mean, I just think it's good to keep in mind, you know?

I had asked my husband about this a while back since we're not staying here. he said that they* give "excuses" for foreign girls and men because the thought it basically that they are behaving normally according to their own culture, which is, of course, a loose culture. They basically accept you as you are, but it's with the knowledge that you're A) going away-- you're not a local or living there and cool.gif Doing the best you can and have no idea what is expected of you anyway. BUT, if you move there or they figure out you're married to one of the locals, then they begin to impose their manners and customs and culture on you, with the thought that you are going to be around and also that your spouse should be teaching you how to behave.. and of course that you should be better than the regular visitors.

*disclaimer: this is small village logic from the north of Jordan which does not always apply everywhere in MENA or even Jordan itself.


I'm glad you put that disclaimer because I'm sitting here thinking ut oh! I'm going to live there after graduation in less than a year for about 6 months to a year and half and I'm going to have to face battling that. F! I better get looking at graduate schools and forget going there and just get him here on my turf if that's the case.
julianna
QUOTE(Olivia* @ Jun 27 2008, 06:17 PM) *
I'm glad you put that disclaimer because I'm sitting here thinking ut oh! I'm going to live there after graduation in less than a year for about 6 months to a year and half and I'm going to have to face battling that. F! I better get looking at graduate schools and forget going there and just get him here on my turf if that's the case.

In that case i would just ask your husband what is expected of you. Sometimes, it takes them a while to answer these things truthfully. Sometimes you can get a faster answer by asking what is expected of the local girls and then turning that answer around into a "so is this what is acceptable" thing and then asking if foreign wives (not you) are held to the same standard, then moving on to you. That's if you hit a "happy" wall. I noticed with many people, as their guests or as a friend or even with Ammar in the beginning, I kept hitting this wall of not really getting an answer for things. I had to figure out how to circumvent this seeming cultural need to placate the questioner. Now he just tells me how it is, straight up smile.gif But if you hit that, you can try a more general line of questioning and you'll sometimes get your answer.
♥JP♥
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 02:19 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 04:13 PM) *
Hey, what is this crap? This is the WHORE thread.



You know how JP feels about cookies! She asks and you have to deliver- no matter what thread you are in- it's a princess thing. tongue.gif

blush.gif "But I love the cookie" - Hammy



Olivia*
QUOTE(julianna @ Jun 27 2008, 05:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Olivia* @ Jun 27 2008, 06:17 PM) *
I'm glad you put that disclaimer because I'm sitting here thinking ut oh! I'm going to live there after graduation in less than a year for about 6 months to a year and half and I'm going to have to face battling that. F! I better get looking at graduate schools and forget going there and just get him here on my turf if that's the case.

In that case i would just ask your husband what is expected of you. Sometimes, it takes them a while to answer these things truthfully. Sometimes you can get a faster answer by asking what is expected of the local girls and then turning that answer around into a "so is this what is acceptable" thing and then asking if foreign wives (not you) are held to the same standard, then moving on to you. That's if you hit a "happy" wall. I noticed with many people, as their guests or as a friend or even with Ammar in the beginning, I kept hitting this wall of not really getting an answer for things. I had to figure out how to circumvent this seeming cultural need to placate the questioner. Now he just tells me how it is, straight up smile.gif But if you hit that, you can try a more general line of questioning and you'll sometimes get your answer.


woah. I have to read this a couple of times before application.
mybackpages
QUOTE(julianna @ Jun 27 2008, 06:14 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 03:45 PM) *
So it's "accepted" but only superficially, only to your face basically.

I mean, I just think it's good to keep in mind, you know?

I had asked my husband about this a while back since we're not staying here. he said that they* give "excuses" for foreign girls and men because the thought it basically that they are behaving normally according to their own culture, which is, of course, a loose culture. They basically accept you as you are, but it's with the knowledge that you're A) going away-- you're not a local or living there and B..) Doing the best you can and have no idea what is expected of you anyway. BUT, if you move there or they figure out you're married to one of the locals, then they begin to impose their manners and customs and culture on you, with the thought that you are going to be around and also that your spouse should be teaching you how to behave.. and of course that you should be better than the regular visitors.

*disclaimer: this is small village logic from the north of Jordan which does not always apply everywhere in MENA or even Jordan itself.


This makes me think of Idir's hometown of Erfoud in southern Morocco. Tons of tourist pour through to see the sand dunes. Lots of poor behavior and choices are "excused" as Juliana puts it. I've never felt the local customs and styles imposed on me by anyone, but I know tere are plenty of more traditional people outside of my inlaws that are thinking it. I do put a self-imposed standard on myself. It's part respect for the local customs and part fear of encouraging local gossip. With all the stories (both ture and not) about American woman going around, I feel I have to work a little harder to overcome these stereotypes. If that makes sense.

I think it would be very different living in or more urban area. There would still be local customs and expectations but perhaps more easier for a western to wrap their heads around on a day to day basis.
♥JP♥
QUOTE(julianna @ Jun 27 2008, 04:14 PM) *
QUOTE(Jenn! @ Jun 27 2008, 03:45 PM) *
So it's "accepted" but only superficially, only to your face basically.

I mean, I just think it's good to keep in mind, you know?

I had asked my husband about this a while back since we're not staying here. he said that they* give "excuses" for foreign girls and men because the thought it basically that they are behaving normally according to their own culture, which is, of course, a loose culture. They basically accept you as you are, but it's with the knowledge that you're A) going away-- you're not a local or living there and B..) Doing the best you can and have no idea what is expected of you anyway. BUT, if you move there or they figure out you're married to one of the locals, then they begin to impose their manners and customs and culture on you, with the thought that you are going to be around and also that your spouse should be teaching you how to behave.. and of course that you should be better than the regular visitors.

*disclaimer: this is small village logic from the north of Jordan which does not always apply everywhere in MENA or even Jordan itself.

Sounds about right for Jordan.
julianna
I also meant to say (as part of the local logic) that your behavior is considered a reflection on your husband. So if you were perceived as not behaving correctly, it would not only be a negative against you but a negative against him and his family. it took us a bit to bridge the "I will teach you to be Jordanian" thing he had going on. I eventually told him "I am not opposed to adopting your ways of cleaning, presentation, dress, and general manners, but I will never be Jordanian." I think for a while that confused him as he thought I was kind of being obstinate about things lol. I eventually had to ask him-- how many people in your village will refer to me as foreigner forever? And he admitted everyone would. Point!!! I will always be foreign. i can adopt all the manners I want, but i am under no oddly concieved idea that I will ever be considered local-- and I am not one who feels that need to "belong" so I am fine with that. In some ways, it reminds me of small-town America.

I am also not interested in changing my hobbies or interests for the culture, either. So what if none of them like to photograph flowers? Someone is walking around with me and doing it!

MBP-- I had my own standard as well smile.gif i am sure I made plenty of mistakes, but at least I made them covered up LOL.
mybackpages
QUOTE(julianna @ Jun 27 2008, 06:52 PM) *
MBP-- I had my own standard as well smile.gif i am sure I made plenty of mistakes, but at least I made them covered up LOL.



laughing.gif yep and I will continue to make plenty of mistakes because I will never realy lose my own customs and mores to become Moroccan.

I like what you write about keeping your own sense of identity. Afterall the goal is to be respectful of the local traditions and expectations not lose yourself and become some sort of reinvented local woman. I think by being respactful of teh culture and really trying to understand the logic behind it will allow the "foreigner" a lot of room to be herself and make these "mistakes".

mybackpages
I also meant to add a comment about the wife reflecting the husband.

Doesn't that happen here too? Don't we say things like "what kind of family does she/he come from?" Or "They are such a nice family because [fil in the blank]"

It's not so pronouced here because we tend to value the individual more than the community, but it happens. Maybe more in some sub-cultures within the US than in others.
♥JP♥
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 05:20 PM) *
I also meant to add a comment about the wife reflecting the husband.

Doesn't that happen here too? Don't we say things like "what kind of family does she/he come from?" Or "They are such a nice family because [fil in the blank]"

It's not so pronouced here because we tend to value the individual more than the community, but it happens. Maybe more in some sub-cultures within the US than in others.

Actually I think it happens more often that we think. A good example of this was at our companies holiday party last year. A sales managers wife was dancing quite provocativly on the dance floor and was pretty drunk. People here still talk about it..."can you believe so and so's wife did that?"
julianna
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 07:15 PM) *
laughing.gif yep and I will continue to make plenty of mistakes because I will never realy lose my own customs and mores to become Moroccan.

I like what you write about keeping your own sense of identity. Afterall the goal is to be respectful of the local traditions and expectations not lose yourself and become some sort of reinvented local woman. I think by being respactful of teh culture and really trying to understand the logic behind it will allow the "foreigner" a lot of room to be herself and make these "mistakes".


Yep! I really feel bad, sometimes, when i hear of women who lose their identity and become absorbed into their husband. This is not just a MENA thing, but everywhere. I am a really strongly religious person-- I fully follow the deference/authority thing, and all of that.. but I am my own person and he knows it. You can be your own person and not just some kind of appendage without resorting to being disrespectful or any of that kind of thing. We sort of discussed the things I like to do-- none of them actually conflict with his culture in any way, but the way in which I do them may have to change a bit. I love to photograph things-- ALONE. Apparently, that last part has to change some-- I can bring one of his sisters with me. So even though the hobby is "different" it in itself is uniquely me and I can continue to do such a thing-- I don't have to adopt the sitting around the house and visiting thing which is fairly normal. It may be advisable to do that quite a bit-- but i don't have to stop being me. I can still have my own garden-- and although that is usually a more male-oriented thing in his village, there is nothing wrong with me wanting to do it-- hs mother used to do it, and one of his SILs does it. It's just not a common thing. I don't need to drop it because it's uncommon. I may just have to coverup more when i'm out there. No big deal.

The most fun thing I had to interject into our meetings with his family is that I hate coffee and it makes me vomit. That was like a total curveball. They got over it, eventually, and finally stopped asking me if i wanted it.

Yeah, we have the reflection thing here too but like you said it's so much less.

QUOTE(♥JP♥ @ Jun 27 2008, 07:22 PM) *
QUOTE(mybackpages @ Jun 27 2008, 05:20 PM) *
I also meant to add a comment about the wife reflecting the husband.

Doesn't that happen here too? Don't we say things like "what kind of family does she/he come from?" Or "They are such a nice family because [fil in the blank]"

It's not so pronouced here because we tend to value the individual more than the community, but it happens. Maybe more in some sub-cultures within the US than in others.

Actually I think it happens more often that we think. A good example of this was at our companies holiday party last year. A sales managers wife was dancing quite provocativly on the dance floor and was pretty drunk. People here still talk about it..."can you believe so and so's wife did that?"

Sometimes I think it's worse from the spousal level. if your kid commits murder, we seem to divorce that from the family more than if a wife or husband is having affairs or acting very "innapropriately" to the opposite sex... the dancing example is a good one.
Hanging in there
QUOTE(Olivia* @ Jun 26 2008, 08:41 PM) *
In Egypt, "Prostitue" Is a Slippery Term

By L.L. Wynn, American Sexuality Magazine. Posted June 26, 2008
.

In Egypt the label "prostitute" is often applied to women who defy traditional social and sexual codes of conduct. Otherwise known as "whore".



It was 2000 and I was at a dinner party in Cairo. I was sitting with *Malak, a belly dancer, and we were eyeing up a young woman who had large oval eyes thickly lined with black kohl and a wide mouth painted salmon. It was the first time Malak and I had seen her at Haroun's house. After she'd been introduced around to the group of friends -- dancers, actresses, businessmen, and me, an American anthropologist -- that met every Thursday night for drinks and dinner, Malak looked her up and down skeptically, and then she said to me in a low voice, "She's a prostitute. Look, obviously that vulgar man thinks so too, because he wouldn't dare put his hands all over her like that unless he was sure she was a prostitute." I shrugged. "You know, Malak, my dear, under the broad definition of 'prostitute' used in Egypt, all of the women here are prostitutes, including you and me." Malak smiled wryly.

It took me a long time to understand what Egyptians meant when they said "prostitute," and during the first year of my anthropological fieldwork, I was plenty confused. Every time the word "prostitute" came up in conversation, I listened carefully to try to understand the context and how it was being used. It seemed to have to do with behavior, dress, social class, and sexual experience. But it wasn't until I could finally shed my own cultural preconceptions about prostitution fundamentally being tied up with money and sex that I finally understood what my Egyptian friends meant.

When 'Sex' Tourism Doesn't Necessarily Involve Sex



I didn't come to Egypt intending to study prostitution. I was studying tourism and the way people interact across cultures. To that end, I had decided to compare Western tourism and Gulf Arab tourism in Egypt (the countries considered part of the Arab Gulf include Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates).

Gulf Arab tourists mostly come to Cairo in the summer months to escape the heat in their own countries, and I documented lots of family vacations and dating between Gulf men and women. I had good access to Gulf tourists: I had previously lived in Saudi Arabia, and I met up with my Saudi friends when they came to Egypt on vacation. We would go to restaurants and movies and nightclubs. Some of my Saudi friends dated each other, while others were already married. One couple got engaged while they were on vacation in Cairo. Their vacation was one long party, and in many ways they transgressed Saudi cultural norms about male-female socializing, but it was all pretty chaste.

But that's not what my Egyptian friends thought. Instead of youthful dating, they imagined that Saudis came to Egypt to drink, visit prostitutes, and do everything else that was forbidden back in Saudi Arabia. It was in the context of talking with Egyptian friends about my research on Gulf tourism that the issue of prostitution first came up. If I said that I was going to such-and-such a nightclub to observe, and that nightclub was known to be a hangout for Gulf Arabs in the summer, my friends would all try to dissuade me: "Don't go there, men will harass you. They'll think you're a prostitute." Knowing, as I did, that my Saudi friends came to Egypt for fairly wholesome vacation fun, I thought this was an interesting allegation. I wondered: Why were these Egyptians (who never had any personal contact with Saudi tourists) convinced that Saudis were coming to Egypt to find prostitutes?

So I started paying close attention to Egyptian assertions about the link between Gulf tourism and prostitution as part of my research.

'Prostitution' and Social Class

But soon I noticed people talking about "prostitution" in contexts that had nothing to do with tourism. One night I was at a restaurant with a group of upper-middle class Egyptian friends. One of them, Ayman, was twirling his fork on the table when suddenly he said to me, "Look, Lisa, a case study." With the fork he pointed in the direction of two women with short hair who were sitting at a table in the corner.

"You really think they're prostitutes?" Case study had become our code word for a prostitute because of my academic interest in the subject.

Lina looked over and agreed with Ayman. "Definitely case studies."

"I just don't see it," I said with some frustration. "What is it about them that makes you identify them as prostitutes?"

The others couldn't point out anything specific. But they were positive that these women were indeed "prostitutes."

"Look, there must be something that makes you say 'that's a prostitute.' There must be something that you all see with your cultural knowledge that I don't see. Try to analyze it. Try to explain it to me so I can see through your eyes."



Ayman just shrugged, but Lina made an attempt. "It's a lot of things -- they way they look, the way they dress, their makeup, their attitude, the expressions on their face, their body language ... "

Lina's boyfriend, Zeid, added, "And it's a combination of these things and not one alone -- for example, you couldn't say that someone is a prostitute just from the way she's dressed because someone else could expose just as much skin and people would think she looks like a decent, respectable girl."

I was skeptical. "So we're making up a story about them for ourselves, but we don't know for sure. Probably lots of people look at us and say the same things about me too."

"No, you don't look like a prostitute. First of all, you're always with the same people, in a mixed group of men and women. The worst they might think is that you're the girlfriend of one of the guys in the group, but we don't sit close together or touch, so they probably wouldn't even think that. Second of all, your makeup isn't like those women. They're wearing thick black kohl all around their eyes, top and bottom. Third of all, your clothes are more decent -- you cover up more than they do."

"Okay, maybe tonight I'm covered up, but sometimes I show more skin."

"Still, not like the way they're dressed. And you never wear short skirts." Zeid furrowed his brow as he watched the two women walk towards the bathroom. "Okay, look, I found one thing that I can point out about those women. You see that one that's wearing the short sleeveless dress? Look, you can see her bra underneath the arm-holes. And the hem keeps turning up and showing her slip. Put the two things together and you can see that they aren't used to dressing up and looking comfortable in elegant clothes."

Aha! I thought. These women didn't look like the upper class elite, who were the only kind of women who could be from "respectable" families and still stay out that late and dress in such clothing. Most women from the lower and middle classes would not be allowed by their families to stay out so late, dress skimpily, and go to a restaurant with a bar like the one we were at; if they were doing so, it must mean that their families weren't enforcing their daughters' respectability through curfews and close monitoring of their behavior.

More than Money

So I had another clue: The label "prostitute" wasn't just associated with Gulf tourism. It had something to do with social class, and the way that class intersected with taste, dress, makeup, and appearance.

But the next time the word came up, I was confused all over again. It was a couple of weeks later, and I was back at the same restaurant with the same group of friends. Ayman leaned over to me and said, "You see that woman with the long wavy black hair sitting at the end of the bar?"

"The one wearing the skirt with the long slit up to her thigh?"

"Right. This woman is well known for being very wealthy and loose. Her father died and she inherited a lot of money and she has her own apartment and she has sexual relationships with men just for pleasure. She's a prostitute."

Ayman had been speaking in Arabic, but as usual, he used the English word "prostitute." This linguistic code-shifting was used whenever Egyptians wanted to talk about a socially risqué subject without sounding vulgar. No man could politely use the Arabic word sharmouta in mixed company.

"How do you know?" I asked him. "And how do you know her, anyway?"

"I know some of the men who dated her. They told me. But apart from that, it's obvious by the fact that she has her own apartment. A respectable woman does not live alone."

"I live alone."

"You're a foreigner."

"So people will think that I'm not respectable?"

"No, of course not, everyone knows that you don't have a choice. You can't live with your family, and anyway, people here know that family ties aren't so strong in the West and people don't live with their families."

"I'm very close to my family."

He laughed. "Lisa, I'm not talking about you. Don't get so defensive."

"Well, maybe that woman just likes to spend her money and she wants to have her own place instead of living with her mother."

"Yes, and why does she like to have her own place instead of living with her mother? Because she wants to live in a way that she can't live if she's with her mother. Which means she wants to bring men home with her. A respectable woman doesn't live alone. She lives either in her parents' house or in her husband's house."

Two weeks earlier I had thought that I'd put my finger on what my Egyptian friends thought a prostitute looked like. If a woman was out alone late at night and didn't look wealthy enough, inferred through a mixture of her clothes and style of makeup, then she must be a prostitute. The link between prostitution and class was, I thought, obvious: a middle- or upper-class woman didn't need money, so she didn't need to sell her body like a poorer woman might. That also, I thought, explained the association made by many Egyptians between Gulf tourism and prostitution: Gulf Arabs were thought to be fabulously wealthy with oil money. By comparison, most Egyptians were poor. Thus, my friends assumed that Egyptian women who associated with Gulf tourists must be prostitutes.



But this latest revelation by Ayman threw my interpretation into doubt. This woman he was labeling a "prostitute" was independently wealthy. She had no need to sell her sexuality. So what was it that made her a prostitute?

'Respectable' Women Get Paid, Too

Eventually I realized that the reason I was struggling to understand the concept of a prostitute had everything to do with my own preconceptions about sex and money. I thought of prostitutes as women who had sex for money. But as I reflected on my friends' relationships and the role that money played in them, I remembered that all of my Egyptian female friends took money from the men they were dating or married to. It didn't matter whether they were rich or poor, or even whether the men could afford it. No matter what, their boyfriends, fiancés, or husbands paid for evenings out, for doctor visits, and often for luxury items such as jewelry and designer sunglasses. When they married, men paid women a large bride price, a sum of money up to $10,000 that was hers to spend as she liked. Married men usually gave their wives stipends, even if the wives had their own jobs.

In short, it was not the injection of money into a sexual relationship that defined it as prostitution. While everyone agreed that "prostitutes" probably did accept money in exchange for sexual acts, the exchange wasn't seen as fundamentally different from that of an unmarried woman who had sexual relationships with boyfriends who supported her financially. Both were seen as existing on a continuum of immoral sexuality, but that didn't necessarily mean the women were "prostitutes."

Nor was "prostitution" even necessarily about sex, since a woman could be labeled a prostitute when there was no proof that she was sexually active at all. For example, sometimes Zeid and Lina would have disputes over whether a particular friend of Lina's was a "prostitute" or not. Zeid, for example, claimed that one of Lina's childhood friends was a prostitute because she drove around alone after midnight. Lina argued, "She's just bored! She's so innocent, you can't believe it -- she's never even been kissed!"

"I don't care. She's still a prostitute if she's driving around alone after midnight!" Zeid said stubbornly.

What is involved in defining a prostitute in Egypt, then, is a complex moral judgment about a woman's social behavior, the number of her sexual partners, the extent to which she submits to familial controls over her social life, and her loyalty to her current romantic partner. Nationality comes into play in the examples above because of the way it overlaps with class and power in the Middle East: Egyptian women who socialize with Gulf Arab tourists might be thought prostitutes, not necessarily because there's a sex-for-cash exchange taking place (remember: wherever there's a romantic relationship, there's money changing hands), but because the financial-power differential between wealthy men and poorer women suggests to Egyptians that these women's sociability and sexuality -- and thus their respectability -- is no longer controlled by their families. (And all of this explains why, at the dinner party in the home of a wealthy Egyptian man, the belly dancer Malak agreed with me that as long as businessmen were mingling with unattached women, any one of us could be labeled a prostitute.)

Sharmouta, the term that my Egyptian friends from all different classes tended to translate as "prostitute" (but which might be better rendered as "whore"), is a highly pejorative term, and sharply contested. Egyptian women tend to resist the term, like Lina, because they understand how easily it can be used to criticize any woman who defies social codes of female respectability in one way or another. It operates at the intersection of female sexuality and independence. As such, prostitution in Egypt is only partly about sex and money.

* All names have been changed to protect the privacy of informants.

http://www.alternet.org/sex/89597/?page=1" target="_blank"> Source </a>

I can only relate my personal experiences in both Algeria, Tunisia and UAE.


I live in a fairly midsize American city and if you want to frequent a hooker , you either have to drive to a really raunchy street or consult an escort service. There is not a wide variety to choose from and its pretty expensive (call girls)

In Tunisia on the other hand, you go to any local hotel and walk into the lobby, there are at least 2 to 3 girls sitting there and there are girls that sit in the coffee shops accompaning the hotels. In Algeria, literally in every single hotel I stayed at , I saw hookers ranging from 16 years old and up. In UAE, throngs of FSU ( former soviet union girls walked in throngs in the streets. I open my mouth in amazement when ANYONE from the middle east or North Africa cracks a comment about how America's morals are loose etc. On every major street in North Africa, there is a hidden or open brothel of one kind or another and prostitution is so rampant that for less than 10 dollars you can buy anything you want, including children in some North African cities ( remember Agadir's scandal with the Belgian writer in 2005 that resulted in the arrest of hundreds of young girls, some as young as 13. Then of course you have the rampant saudi tourism in both Tunisia and Morocco ( not so much in Algeria ) and a huge sex tourism base has developed.

I never saw the numbers of prostitutes in the USA that I saw in both North Africa and UAE, just walking around in throngs , half naked etc. For anyone to criticise the morals of the Average American just yanks my chain because of what I saw and experienced.

I will also say that I have had to explain to my husband that girls have alot more opportunities for jobs here. If you sleep with someone over here or make a ton of mistakes, you can reinvent yourself. One bad slip in some places over there, you can NEVER get married or have a family and are thrown into a life of a fallen woman and destined to hook and work in cabarets. Fair, NO. Reality. Yes

Western women are absolutely NOT held to the same level of scrutiny of girls from there. But you have to remember that some of our marriages are not really thought of to be forever ones anyway ( even if they are).
Some literally ( families) completely understand that this marriage is the "starter marriage" to get on their feet and get money to be able to marry the " virgin" or girl back home. It doesnt always work out that way, but some of us are forever and some are not.

It yanks my chain though when anyone from MENA questions US customs and morals etc. I think women have alot better chance to recover from mistakes over here than there.

Just my opinion
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