Just received in the mail my I-797C (Notice of Action)(NOA).

Notice Type: Transfer Notice.

Notice that above application has been transferred to CSC.

Notice Date: June 1, 2006.
Post marked June 2, 2006 Lincoln, NE.

Has anyone actually gotten confirmation that USCIS has received their file back from NVC or the Embassy yet? I'm wondering if they're not even opening the petitions again until they receive official word as to what to do with them. I would feel so much better if I knew someone had the file.

yep, but that will be revealed if it's plausible to persue this after careful consideration and investigation has been made. A class action of this type is a bit different than just a regular civil suit. It's aproach will be different too should it be persued.

At the very least, if the findings we come up with say that it's not possible to sue, that could be a signifigant statement to some of how untouchable they are trying to make things, and how much more of our rights and civil liberties are being taken away from us. As a conservative, thats a big thing for me to say.




They can not officaly confirm or deny what at first is speculation until proper documentation is de-classified. The Powers That Be at the DHS who does the declassification may have known more details, that that doesn't mean they knew everything or that anything gets done. But once it was declassified and sent to the DHS workers and officials to assimilate, they divulged the information after further Bureaucractic Corporation of America Inc. "due process" that took an entire month to get to the USCIS. Without prior "official" instruction the USCIS could not know "officialy" to be able to act upon it or prepare for it. This is how stupid and blind bureaucracy can be. Especially when urgency is improperly placed on such a big change in the application process not allowing for the time that it would take for the right hand to talk to the left so the left hand can direct the traffic (the applicants).

Sorry if I find this all a bit too pie-in-the-sky. No one's civil liberties are being violated here. No one is being told that he or she can't marry the person of his or her choice; no one is being told that a criminal record or past marriage(s) on the part of the petitioner is grounds for denial of a visa petition; no one is being forced to disclose information that wouldn't be disclosed in a similar background check for a job or the like.

I'm sure that it's possible for a lawsuit to be filed, but I'm not at all convinced that it would succeed. That's if it even makes it to trial. Any claim that civil liberties are being violated is sure to fail, since it seems to me that the government is making sure that due process is being followed. And, again, no one is being denied anything at this stage of the game, and from what I can tell, no one WILL be denied on any basis that they wouldn't have been before IMBRA existed.

If I were a lawyer, I'd tell you to keep your money and take up a nice relaxing hobby until this all blows over. Which it will.

IMHO.

zethris,

What rights or civil liberties are being taken away from us? The petition and subsequent visa application are to provide a benefit to non-US citizens - a privilege this country offers to them, not a right or civil liberty that we owe to them.

As for us US citizens, we do not have any right of civil liberty to unilaterally bring anyone we want into this country just because we want to do so. We have an obligation to consider the rights and civil liberties of our fellow citizens and how they may be affected by our actions.

Yodrak

Well now that the USCIS "officialy" knows, they can act upon it, and i am sure they want to immediatly train all staff on the changes and what this law means immediatly. Especially how the troublesooters plan to attack the flood of us coming in from both newly filed applications, and those of us who have had our already approved visa's revoked because of this. Contrary to what some might think, the USCIS is much more "civilian" in it's ability to work with us, even given the heavy bureaucracy involved that they have to work around on a daily basis. If government agencies could ever be considered close to be our "friends" in this the USCIS would be the closest we can get. So they are acting fast.

Your visa was revoked?

Surely you mean your PETITION for the visa was sent back.

I agree and Zethris, you are my new hero too.

I did contact my senator's office but so far am very unimpressed with their knowledge or understanding - but I'll give them a few days to try to dig into it.

The will be for the lawyers to figure out and for the courts to decide, not the armchair logic of two individuals who want to keep pretending everything is all hunky dory in the USA. I am not a blind liberal, and I am definatly not a blind conservative. There are many things going on that violates our rights and liberties.

Here, our rights, in my opinion, are being violated by the fact that we are not being grandfathered in for those of us who have already applied and been approved. We should be, no matter the deadline. The deadline should be only for new applications from the date of notice, which happened to be 2 months later than the planned deadline, so the deadline should immediatly be changed to when the notification happend at the very least. Ultimatly what should have happened is time to be allowed for all of the check and balances like any other law would have that affords time for the government to provide a way to apply properly and follow the law. They have taken our ability to follow the law away. They have not given us the ability, even going on 3 months to be able to apply with proper documentation. For those who don't know about this change even yet, they will be greatly delayed with an eventuall RFE for months upon months now while they process those of us who have already applied and are waiting for our RFE's already for 2-3 months while they get everything implemented. Overall, neglegence. But this will not reflect the findings of the lawfirm I am in talks with.

I do hope you two wake up a bit and lay off the kool-aid.

Lets please try and be more friendly please .

Yodrak,

Did you know we were supposed to get Kool-Aid? Hell, if I'd known, I'd have signed up for this whole immigration thing YEARS ago.

pax

***

To our intrepid defender of human rights:

Please tell me, again, which civil liberties are being violated.

Also please explain to me how you intend to get a class-action lawsuit against the government off the ground before the problem is actually resolved—which, from everything I've read, should be happening fairly soon.

Finally, please tell me how telling you that you're wasting your time on this one amounts to a claim that everything is "hunky dory" in the United States.

once you have NOA2, it's an approval. Those that have had it approved are in revokation status. However, it's a special consession that is being made to run an RFE on the Visa's that had been approved past the march 6th deadline. Some, actually are finding their final interviews canceled until further notice. Others even finished everything and were waiting for the visa in the mail, but had it canceled. Meanwhile they had quit their job in preparation to move, which is about as bad as it can get.

Please tell us where visas have been cancelled—actual visas, not approved petitions.

Second of all, the petitions have not been revoked. That's a whole other process. They've been recalled.

because it's the lackadaisical attitude of the two of you who not only seem to be looking to troll in an already difficult situation, but is a sign of the times and state of the people in America who just sit by and not take matters back into their hands because they are too lazy to do anything more than talk about it, or act like a troll in a message board as some sort of "devil's advocate" knowing that they can get a rise out of the people that are suffering. I don't appreciate that, and I would like it to stop or please leave.

I understand that you don't know me from Eve, but to call me, or Yodrak, lackadaisical just shows your own ignorance of the facts of the matter.

For that matter, so does saying that we're "trolling." Trolling is harassment, or intentionally disseminating misleading or untrue information. I am doing neither. I'm not even playing devil's advocate. I'm saying that what we seem to have here is a lot of confusion, a lot of anger, and a lot of disorganization...none of which will add up to productive change in law or policy when there is in fact no substantive argument to be made for a violation of civil liberties.

I won't call myself any kind of expert in this, but Yodrak knows more about the immigration process than most folks here, and dissing him really lowers the quality of your argument to longtime VJers. Again, IMO.

Last response to you for any of this:

They are in revoked status. That is what it is called. Yes they have been recalled, but placed under administrative revoked status. With the consession that they are not permanently revoked pending a time limit set on us (later) to send back the RFE. If they do not recieve the RFE, or the person that has had their visa returned doesn't get the notice in time to fulfill the RFE, them's the breaks and they have to start all over. While those may be few, there will be a few, and thats one of the many causes of the effect of the implementation of this law that is going to come from it all.

Ultimatly, someone has to take action more than just talking about it on the message boards. You can say and think what you want, but I propose that it's your kind of attitude that has put us in this sort of mess with such lack of control over our own government that was supposed to be made by US.

Which is what happens to anyone who is RFE'd for anything. And they have not had a VISA returned, it is a PETITION FOR A VISA APPLICATION.

Yes, the recall post-approval is unusual, not to mention frustrating and unfortunate for those whom it affects. But it is not the same as a petition actually being revoked, which typically happens post-interview, if a CO makes a finding that either the petitioner, the beneficiary, or both misrepresented themselves in the petition. The CO does not actually do the revoking, but can send the petition back to the States with a NOIR (Notice of Intent to Revoke).

Which is also different from a visa being denied without revocation of the initial petition. Which also can happen.

Bottom line: USCIS is charged with processing petitions in a timely manner. 90-120- who knows how many days is not a timely manner. This is a government agency, and as such is paid for by my tax dollars (and my application fees!).

Anybody remember "No taxation without representation"?? If memory serves, that particular issue led to some minor changes here in the USA :-)

There sure as hell is no applicant representation as far as USCIS goes. All there is, is stonewalling, obfuscation and hours hold time on the telephone for contract call center employees that know nothing.

They go home at night, every night, to their loved ones. I don't. And I have no idea when I will because of their lack of transparancy and inability to CARRY OUT THIER DUTY TO PROCESS APPLICATIONS.

Yes, I am not happy, yes I am willing to try to change the system for the better.

And thats what we should try to do. The trick would be to hopefully make changes for the future petitioners, should changes like these be made (and they probably will) so that this type of thing never happens again to people and their loved ones. This country was made on the idea of designing it to hopefully make it a much better place for their families present and future. In many ways they did. But that doesn't mean anything in present day when these things are being taken away in favor of someone trying to create job security for themselves (bureaucracy) and money wasted on irresponsible implementation of law.

I just spoke with Vermont. Finally I heard a good news. They resumed processing K1's, my case was
picked up by an officer last week (before they kept telling me that my petition was in security checks only).
She asked me If I submited any papers about criminal records with my petition, and I told her that it was
not required at that time. It's funny that she was telling me that everything is explained on their website
regarding this new law. So she told me, that she does not know if officer will be requesting any additional
papers from me after the review of my case.

And one more thing:

Some posters have commented that USCIS processing is like applying for a job or mortgage.

WRONG!

I spent 5 years in the mortgage business: equity, retail and wholesale and I can guarantee you getting a mortgage is 10,000 times easier than the fiancee visa process. On a mortgage app they pull a credit report. THAT'S IT! There is NO background check! Not with the FBI, the CIA, the State Department and who knows how many other local and regional databases.

A job applicant MIGHT have a credit report pulled.

Criminal records? FBI check? IMBRA type disclosures??? PLEASE. You are delusional or severely mis-informed if you think the USCIS checks are remotely similar to applying for a mortgage or a job.

Please don't spread that kind of mis-information or try to reframe the real problem with those comparisons.

zethris,

People have a right to be 'grandfathered' when something has been done contrary to the applicable law? Agreed that USCIS erred in approving some petitions improperly, but the appropriate remedy for that is to correct the error that was made. And that is what USCIS is doing. Doesn't ease the pain, but it does right the wrong.







According to the information you present in your timeline, your fiancee never had an approved visa application to revoke.



Yodrak

This Link Explains Most of What is Going on:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegram...grams_2927.html

Fiancé(e) I-129F Petitions Recalled by DHS


UNCLASSIFIED STATE 00077044
P 121528Z MAY 06
FM SECSTATE WASHDC
TO ALL DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR POSTS COLLECTIVE PRIORITY

SUBJECT: FIANCÉ(E) I-129F PETITONS RECALLED BY DHS

1. Summary: The International Marriage Broker Regulation
(IMBRA) was signed by the President January 5th of this
year. A 60-day deadline, March 5, 2006, was established
for DHS to begin asking K-1 fiancé(e) petitioners for
their criminal background information. DHS did not meet
the deadline for collecting additional information. Some
petitions filed after the deadline were approved in error
under the old procedures and sent through the National
Visa Center (NVC) to posts for processing. Approximately
1100 cases went to 95 IV-issuing posts. Posts are
preparing to return these cases as quickly as possible to
NVC. End Summary.

2. While most K-1 cases under the new IMBRA requirements
were held at the service centers pending development of a
new form I-129F, some cases were processed after March 5
using the old forms and procedures and sent to posts for
processing. The DHS Service Center Operations (SCOPS)
Unit of USCIS, Status/Family Branch requested that posts
return to NVC all K1 I-129F petitions with priority dates
(date received at the DHS office) on or after March 6,
2006.

3. NVC was able to run a data base list of all petitions
meeting these criteria. We have notified those
posts that have received these cases and given them the
case numbers and further instructions. All cases on this
list, even those with firm appointments or in 221(g)
status, are to be delayed while the petition is returned
for further information. No cases in issued status will
be recalled. If posts have any question about the correct
priority date of the K1 case, they should use the priority
date (receipt date) written or stamped on the original
petition. DHS has not requested return of K3 or K4 I-129F
petitions.

4. The Department presently has no information about the
extent of delay for these cases. In the meantime DHS will
send additional questionnaires to the petitioners
inquiring about their possible criminal backgrounds. When
the petition is compliant with the IMBRA, it will be
returned to post from USCIS through NVC for processing.

5. The Department understands the additional workload of
this process and the public relations demands of
responding to disappointed petitioners and beneficiaries.
We recommend that questions be addressed directly to USCIS. The USCIS customer service number is: 800 375 5283.

The problem with that link, which most of us have already seen, is that it is from the State Department, which has no jurisdiction over USCIS. Just because State says on their website that USCIS is going to do something does not mean that that is USCIS policy-- basically it is State washing its hands of the matter until USCIS sorts itself out.

Hey, guys.

As I posted here 10 days ago...

I emailed CSC even though my case is from Vermont.

I got this from them:

You should phone the National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283 and inform them of your inquiry. They will either answer your question or send it to Vermont Service Center to answer. I phoned National Visa Center (NVC) today and they did return the petition to that Vermont location. Essentially the petition has completed processing. It was approved by USCIS, Vermont Service Center who sent it to the NVC who referred it to the Consulate for interview. The Visa was not issued by the Consulate and was returned to USCIS for revocation on our system.

just to let you know, my interview was scheduled and sent back with 30 others from Brazil to USA due to IMBRA.

What do you have to say about that?

With all due respect, zethris: you are now all up in MY Kool-Aid, and you don't even know the flavor.

We are all trying to handle our immigration cases as best we can. It is ultimately our prerogative to decide which actions to take on our OWN cases. We do not work for you, we do not owe you or your agenda anything. I have already written to the CIS Ombudsman; the fact that I have chosen not to contact Rep. Kuhl or Senators Schumer and Clinton at this time is tactical--I may require their assistance on another, unrelated issue. I am simply picking my battles.

Your suggestion that those who elect not to pursue your favored course of action on their own cases should have their applications penalized is your own opinion, to which you are entitled. Airing it, however, has earned you 90 Rude Points, out of a possible 100.

Bottom line: you're not the boss of me. Adjust your attitude accordingly.

As for your secret civil liberties lawsuit, I share Pax's skepticism. I realize I'm not one of "the professionals," nor am I privy to the secret strategy conferences of your legal team, but from my view you might have a procedural due process claim, at most (FYI, I communicated the due process issue to the Ombudsman when I contacted him). Usually when there is some kind of procedural due process SNAFU, the remedy is at equity and not at law. That means that the erring party needs to FIX IT, which is what the relevant agencies are in the process of doing right now. As for a standard negligence claim, I admit that my plebian ignorance makes it too difficult for me to process that one, or to envision how such a claim might possibly be structured.

Which is just as well, since it's a secret.

Shhhh.


A ticked-off Tigre

Well, I thought because USCIS has released the draft, they have sorted out a big part of it. No?

In my head they are waiting for the approval of the form and should be sending RFEs as soon as that happens.

Maybe at this stage they are training themselves and preparing the damn pamphlet that Consulates will need to show to beneficiares..

I certainly hope so. I'm just saying that until I see something in writing from USCIS itself, I'm taking all other information with a grain of salt.

Oh, yeah.. me too.
I wish I coul talk with Vermont as Igor does. It sure doesn´t work for me.
I even called USCIS again today. As I also called my Consulate in Brazil.
Nothing new.. Nothing new from my lawyer as well.

There´s no way to run. No way I can tell my fiancée "baby, we´ll be together soon".

TBH, I'm not entirely certain that Igor is actually reaching Vermont, as he seems to be the only person who is able to. I'll give it a go tomorrow morning, though.

I'm prepared to wait with as much patience as I can muster until 6/30, when the draft of the new I-129f expires. If nothing happens fairly soon after that, I may start reevaluating my options.

rlt, I take it NVC has not confirmed that they sent your petition back to USCIS yet. You only have confirmation from the embassy at this point, correct?

Not really, I also got this from the NVC:

"Dear Sir or Madam,

Your inquiry has been received at the National Visa Center (NVC).

The petition has been returned to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS-formerly known as INS). Any further inquiries should be directed to CIS."

That was back on My24th !

rlt,

You must be one of the 1,100. Hopefully that group will be at the head of the line for re-processing when the USCIS gets a new, IMBRA-compliant, procedure in place.

And hopefully that will be soon.

Yodrak

Okay i'm pissed!!!! they told me they sent back our petition on May 11, same day they called to cancel the interview! This BITES!!! And NVC tells me they have recieved nothing yet! Who's LYING here? How can this "diplomatic mail" or what not take 3 weeks? I checked it out, and diplomatic mail is flown by PLANE!!!

I sure am one of them. I got a call saying that on May 17th.
I really don´t wanna get into the discussion about lawsuits. What I wanna show everyone is how hard this is for me.

Since May 17th (when I had packet 4 with me and an interview date) I haven´t heard from my case. I know nothing.
This is torturing me. I am creating situations myself that are bringing new issues to my relationship.

Yodrak, you´re right. I also think the recalled petitions will be treated as priority, and I also hope everyday that it will be soon.

But that is no excuse for the lack of information.

Any "as soon as the new form is approved within 60 days we´ll be sending RFEs" would be much appreciated.

This is killing me a little bit.
Sorry



I also didn´t get a response by the phone.
Only got that when I emailed them.

It´s worth a try.. It takes them a few days to answer.

Here it is: NVCInquiry@state.gov

good luck

[quote name='Aquelunya' post='233862' date='Jun 5 2006, 06:57 PM']

Okay i'm pissed!!!! they told me they sent back our petition on May 11, same day they called to cancel the interview! This BITES!!! And NVC tells me they have recieved nothing yet! Who's LYING here? How can this "diplomatic mail" or what not take 3 weeks? I checked it out, and diplomatic mail is flown by PLANE!!!
[/quote]

I also didn´t get a response by the phone.
Only got that when I emailed them.

It´s worth a try.. It takes them a few days to answer.

Here it is: NVCInquiry@state.gov

good luck
[/quote]

The sad part is I did email them, and the response I received was that they did not receive it yet, and I should contact the embassy, we did that today and they said they sent in on the May 11 like I said diplomatic mail.

and by the way, in case you missed my earlier post, when I spoke to USCIS rep. on Friday, she had assured me that the recalled petitions are going to receive priority attention.

wow! this place is jumpin! the horses are mighty high in here! but still not one bit of info, just speculation.....
thank you pax and yodrak for your devil's advocacy or whatever it is being called.

BUT i did get a call from my congresswoman's office today. they said "all K1 and K3's are waiting for the info packets to be put into many languages" and there's no time frame - but "it is a priority to get this done."

"this is being done by the attorney general". "atorney general?" "yes, attorney general."

what does everyone think of this? has anyone else heard anything about attorney general?

cheers

ps there have been many other calls to her about this so they are trying to figure out what to do and will keep me posted of any news. at least someone in congress seems to care.

The attorney general? Your congresswoman may mean well, but I'm not entirely certain her staff knows what they're talking about.

And yet we don´t really know what we are waiting for.
Is it the new form? Is it the translated info packets? No one knows.

I was hoping the processing dates would be updated today, but nothing so far.

Hey guys! Having a great time here with Luz. I have been popping in every day to see what has been going on. I see we have gone down the path of rage and rampant speculation. It's understandable considering the way this law has hosed us all. If some of you feel the need to sue, by all means! it's your right. I don't see how it's gonna help but if it makes you feel better then go ahead. The bottom line, the government is gonna take as long as it takes and no amount of complaining will speed them up one second. They know they have a problem, they know that while they have all our petitions on hold more continue to pour in and very soon they will have a huge mountain of work that they will have a hard time clearing. I don't trust the government as far as I could throw it but at this point I don't think we have much choice.
Consider this, for the ones that DIDN'T have their petitions returned and are waiting for NOA2, the embassies that our petitions would have been going to havn't gotten any new ones in the last month or so. One would thing that their backlog is going away at a fast rate. When we finally do get our NOA2's they should just fly through the embassy part. For the ones that did get their pettitions returned are going to the front of the line when they do get back there.
My advice is this, calm down and do whatever you can to keep optimistic. It's only a pothole in the road to being with the one you love. We will get there.

Er, that was me, not zethris, that wrote your quoted statement

I apologize for my poor wording, as you would be the last person I would lump in as a watcher and not a do-er You HAVE taken action and are definitely helping the cause!

My intent was that people need to raise awareness of the USCIS processing fiasco in addition to posting on the this forum. Aside from USCIS customer (dis)service, I think making a lot of noise is a good thing. It is probably good too that the ruckus come from all directions (senators, congresspeople, Ombudsfolk, lawyers, and other branches of government).

Did you read about the guy that got ate by the lioness? LINK Hehe, looks you are mauling us... Tigre on the loose!

Hey- Happy Monday and cheers to all who are fighting the good fight regardless of their chosen avenue

I am speaking in terms of the people, not my current personal experience which hadn't gotten that far quite yet, but could very well have.




To brass tacks, you ARE doing something. You are doing something MUCH more than just posting on a message board. THAT was the point I was making about those that just want to be a devils advocate to make miserable an already miserable situation by being lucid, and complacent in something that many consider a cause for alarm and a cause for action. There are many faces of a troll, even one that is purposefully rude and condesending in a place that has a lot of people that need support, not more questions. You do not fall into this category. you misunderstood what I was saying. But you are not one of those who just sit idly by and do drive by commentary on a message board which goes no where.

You have contacted, and offered much valuable information and support to us.

USCIS is, I believe, completely application fee funded. Your tax dollars are not at work here.

Why *should* there be "applicant representation"? You are requesting a *benefit* from the gov't. You aren't entitiled to it, it's something you can ask for.
If you KNOW that the operators, staff etc know nothing, why do you keep asking? Surely you can have some appreciation of the scope of the issue? Last I looked, US Consulates worldwide accept over 10 million visa applications per year---how many of them have petitions attached to them? The US has no vested interest in letting more people 'in' sooner---their feeling is 'here is the line, get in it', not 'here's your visa, thank you sir!'. They are doing their duty.
Becasue there is an error with 1100 petitions, you expect a mack truck to stop on a dime and turn? It just doesn't happen. It sucks to be one of the 1100, but it's foolishness to expect instant results. You know they are aware of the problem, you know they are working on it, and you know they can not produce instant (in our langugage) results (I'm sure it *does* seem instant to them).
You're on a path to madness if you expect a different result just for being temporarily unhappy. Really unhappy is your petition taking 3 years to process, which was not all that uncommon even a few years ago.
Imagine you live in the preInternet world when you sent your petition in, and went and applied for a visa when you heard back. No micromanaging an (insane) process with touches and transfers etc. And actually, that system didn't work *so* badly. Fewer people went nutso.
I wish you peace.

Are we back to the time where we should be thankful for anything that happen to us only because it could be worse?
Really?

I don´t know how it is for ou, but it kills me to have packet 4 in my hands, to feel so close to my fiancée and not knowing what is gonna happen.

Does it change how USCIS work? No, of course not. But the way they work won´t change how I am as a person.

Americanwoman, I think your congressman is as lost as we are.

Absolutely, and I in no way mean to diminish how devastatingly disappointing this must be. And most of us know that the not knowing can drive you crazy.

My point is that you and your fiance will do better, at least in your mental health, if you give this a bit of time to sort itself out, and not expect something that can't be delivered.

Obviously a lack of understanding on zenriths part in understanding how things work....in particular DHS. To say or even think that DHS and the top level of USCIS had no knowledge of this law and didnt start until just recently in meeting the requirements of this law, is laughable. Yes a law was passed, but then its up to DHS/USCIS to interpret that law. This is not something that happens over night. Another post by another member is correct, in as the law had too short a time from the date of signing to the day of enactment, for it to of ever been concievable to be able to meet the requirements of the IMBRA by 6 March.

I am glad you butted in, Aussie, ´cus I was getting tired of the pointless arguement that will lead nowhere.

Zethris, Pete...sorry for the mix-up

I should at least check and see just who is in my Kool-Aid before I unleash the Kool-Aid man.


Everyone say it with me...

OH YEAH!

Agree.
And that´s why it´s taking them a long time to deal with this.
But let´s not forget the law was signed in early January, and this is June.
As we have a draft of the new form, shouldn´t we be optimistic and believe they are getting there?