Ok all, I am now looking through my emails to and from Tan - more than 150 to go through in just 2 months. AAAAA. Nice, huh?

Here is my issue as I get more and more crabby about the whole situation. This stuff is PRIVATE. Just forget the sex talk, we talk about communism, the consulate, use dirty words, talk about money, talk about our secrets, make non PC jokes that outsiders would find highly offensive, etc ... this is OUR BUSINESS, that I would not share with anyone but someone I LOVED and TRUSTED.

Other than blacking out half of every email, which will just make them more suspicious, is there anything else I can do so they don't get inside my head (and that is a weird place to be, if you haven't already gathered).?

I can't even find one email where we didn't write something immensely personal. HELP. Any thoughts?

Further, our emails are about 90% in Vietnamese ... if I do use a few, do I have to translate them? This is taking hours, days, weeks to finish ... I am not even finished choosing our photos.

Thanks so much to all for any input.
ILOVETAN

I'm in your shoes now, ilovetan, even deeper than you. Our interview is close (Aug 8), and I've sent my wife in Vietnam the Yahoo! chat logs (hundreds of pages). Lots of baaaad stuff about communism and the NVC too...We bash the people who have been handling our visa application on a daily basis. Yes, some of our jokes are much offensive to some. I've decided to edit these chat logs, you know, filter out the sharp edges and points and make it boringly smooooth. We're all nice people hehheh
Anyway, good luck on your visa journey. Based on your story, I really feel that you two make a perfect couple. You'll over come every and all obstacles together.
Regards, kilun

And Ilovetan, it's not necessary to translate your emails. They always have vietnamese staff in the Consulate; they should be able to handle it with ease. My chat logs are viet too (my wife does not speak or read english). Think about it: they conduct most of the immigrant visa interviews in vietnamese, then why is the language of these emails a problem? It'll be a problem only if the petitioner's language is different than the beneficiary's language, and neither of the two makes efforts to improve their COMMUNICATION, which is a must to determine if the relationship is bonna fide.

Surely y'all are not the first to have this situation. As far as the privacy thing, I had to swallow pretty hard before I sent all that stuff off. The political thing was not a problem for us, because I'm married to a girl from paranoid Hanoi, and she never wrote anything bad about the government. We would SAY things now and again, but never leaving a trace. But then, they never looked at any of that stuff in the end (at the consulate, anyway). We picked and chose our emails/chats to send to USCIS.

Ok 2 questions for ya kilun:

1. how do you EDIT chats? Are you blacking out things with a marker? (will take me 100 hours to read all of mine, but ok) or actually putting them in word and editing? If you put them in word, don't you lose the formatting (smiley faces, colored text, etc?) HELP.

2. I am the petitioner, I am not Viet Kieu ... I am white American but I SPEAK Vietnamese. You probably are aware how RARE this is. How do I prove it? The consulate is flat out not going to believe that some white girl wrote 10 page love letters in Vietnamese (but I did) - I am really really fluent (80%) and can read and write more than I even speak. I state in my letter that I have studied the language but you know that Americans can study Vietnamese for YEARS and never speak clearly. I met foreigners who had lived in Vietnam 10 years and didn't speak nearly as good as I do after only 2 years of study - and they don't read or write it. AAAA. PLUS, our emails and chats are without SYMBOLS ... will they really think some white person can understand Vietnamese without the symbols? (but I do)

As far as my chats and emails go ... ohmygosh, the whole damn thing with be blacked out if I start editing ... Tan writes about 2% in english and basically 3 words: That, even, f***ing. A sample email of ours may cover everything from communism, to dirty sex talk, to the devil, to .... uhhhh and we NEVER NEVER ask each other about the weather or our day. I don't have emails like: "Today I went to the supermarket and bought some new soy sauce. Later, I met my friends for coffee and we talked about my new hairstyle". Sorry, I just don't! What is he going to say about his day? "Today I ate PHO ... AGAIN."

Sample chat:
Tan: f***
Thuy: f*** you look sexy
Tan: f*** I miss you f***
Thuy: me too, f***, this sucks
Tan: aaaaaaaaaa f*** the f***ing rules - give me the pink motherf***er.


WOOHOO THE IMMIGRATION VISA PROCESS IS FUN!
Thuy

Hi, Thuy.
1. I copy the thing to word then edit it in there. Ofcourse, I'd lose the smileys, the audibles and all the fancy text, but I don't think anybody would care. The communication is clearly there, that's all that they want to see (if they'd ever). I don't use markers; it makes the whole thing look suspicious like, ok you've got sumthin' t' hide?
2. I've read your posts from the beginning (that's a lot of reading!), and I'm well aware of your situation. My personal opinion is: your case is sooo special and unique; that would only make it stronger in the eyes of the people handling it. I mean, what kind of money would make a beautiful and priviledged Californian girl to go into the tropical jungle and live with mosquitos? It's common sense to see that only LOVE would make you go a great length through that much trouble. It's not just wishful thinking, believe me. Just read through stories of the people form our very own VJ community; you'll see that TRUE LOVE, with persistence, will prevail at the end. If you wrote 10 pages worth of love letters in Vietnamese, have Tan bring them to the interview. It'll be better if you wrote them with your hand writing, I think. Again, there's no point in translating chat or emails. If you do that, they're not gonna believe Tan could read all that. Truth is, Vietnamese is the PRIMARY language of your communication, so you'd better leave it as it is.
Good luck to you both on your visa journey and your lives together.
BTW, I'm curious about whether you viet name has an accent mark. Is it Thủy (water), Thùy (tender), Thúy (deep), or Thụy (luck)
kilun (ki the shorty)

Chao anh, em ten la Thuy (co dau hoi) nhung em kg chon ten nay vi y nghia la nuoc ... em chon ten nay vi y nghia la CHUNG THUY vi em chung thuy cho nguoi vn. Em tin ben trong em la nguoi vn ... em la nguoi my ben ngoai thoi ... hieu kg anh oi? ;-) Cam on rat nhieu anh ... anh viet message de thuong qua, cho em hy vong .. xin cam on
Thuy

For some reason I always thought your Vietnamese name is Thúy from your past posts. Thanks for your clarification, now I know it's Thủy (dấu hỏi).

I agree with kilum that you don't need to translate the correspondence. I did attempt to translate some of them to send to USCIS but I eventually gave up that effort. Also, you don't need to provide every single emails/chats. As for hand written letters, I would recommend to give them all. My wife found that the CO at HCMC didn't even review in details all the correspondece that we have. In fact, the CO looks for a whole circumstance of the case. Good luck!

You do have to translate what you send to USCIS, correct? They can't read Vietnamese....
I only sent 5 e-mails from over the years - can you do the same thing? It leaves less to translate.

If you want to prove you can speak Vietnamese, then have smeone shoot a video of you do exactly that. Speaking unscripted Vietnamese, for about two minutes straight. Send it in VHS and DVD form so that they can see it for themselves. Others have done this.

You do not need every email or chat, just a scattered few thru out the times

Hmmmmmm, sounds like he's ready enough for that move to Compton.

your chat logs can be saved as text file.

Hello Thuy,

I have seen in many of your post that you focus on the fact that you speak, read, and write Vietnamese. I am sure you are not the only or the first, as you put it "white girl" to have gone through this process that can do all of the same. I think you may be worrying a bit to much about how your (what I envy) ability to speak, read, and write Vietnamese will do to hurt your case. I would instead focus on how very much it will help your case. The fact that many of your emails are in Vietnamese and they are very personal is a plus. The question you asked about keeping them out of your head should be the biggest asset you have going for you. I think you want to do exactly that, pull them into your head, that way they will be more likely to believe your abilities. You asked how you can prove your abilities, I think that is a perfect way and I would suggest that you pick a few of these emails or chats that are them most personal and private and are also in Vietnamese and encourage Tan to have the CO to read them.

I do not think any of us can avoid the privacy issue. I was and still am very cautious when giving Xuan items like credit card and bank statements. If she looses them lots of bad things can happen. Now I am presented with mailing these items to her as well. We all have to put so much information in the packets that anyone could steal our identities. It is the risk we have to take to satisfy our governments. I have often joked that I should have just gotten her a plane ticket to Mexico and let her walk across the river like everyone else has. Or better yet, to Canada and just drive across the border somewhere. My advice would be to hire ME before you send in your I-129 and let him and Mr. Nam guide you. They seem to be the most talked about on this site and I have hired them myself.

Just my thoughts. And I really wish I had your skill in Vietnamese.

Think BIG PICTURE!
What do you want HCMC to think of you and Tan? Your "love story"? Your background? Which will lead to a successful petition!

Chat LOG is NOT the only mean of proof of communication! Editting Chat log, why bother? Why not write up a whole new chat page to what you want them to see.... Then it comes to another thought: Why not write letters? Send hand written postcard and love notes or "Just Because" cards... You have to think like a C.O.... put yourself in their shoes "How do I know Tan and Thuy are for real, based on the evidence they show me?"

BTW, Thủy, just forget about your privacy when it come to this process. They want to know everything.... Be yourself, don't bother to edit chatlog as some have suggested, editing a log defeat the purpose of keeping one.

Not one single piece of evidence will make or break your case, it's the total package Thủy

I've already posted a couple places in this section. I am a former HCMC consular officer (long enough ago that I no longer know anyone who works there, so please don't ask about that). Although I generally prefer not to comment on individual cases I see here on VJ, I feel compelled to say something here, because it speaks to an issue I have with "evidence" in general.

The posts I've seen by ChuckAndKim tend to be the most spot-on when it comes to advice -- one would almost think this poster is a former consular officer as well. Maybe just a realist. But anyway...

I wouldn't bother editing anything...no consular officer whose been there more than 3 days is going to care what is written in there. If I were interviewing your fiance, I would be far more interested in the fact that you have learned to speak Vietnamese than any chat logs you may have. That shows a level of commitment that goes SO FAR beyond that of what the vast majority of fraudsters would ever do. Consular officers know how difficult it is to learn to speak VN. This would be far more persuasive to me than 2 suitcases full of chats and e-mails. If I were you I would make sure your fiance mentions it to the officer during the interview. Never be afraid to speak up about something that might show a special level of commitment by your spouse or fiance (and I'm not saying shoving 300 one-line e-mails under the window).

Don't get bogged down in the "how much evidence should I have" rut. The fraudulent cases all have far more evidence than you ever will -- they're paying upwards of $50,000 for a service provided by the visa fixers, and they damn well are going to get their money's worth. This means that officers must discount the importance of such "evidence" to a certain degree. That being said, if I see 3 heartfelt letters over the course of 2 years, that means more than a letter sent every day that says nothing but "Hi, how are you, talk to you next time."

Nothing -- no amount of paperwork, photos, etc -- will EVER take the place of your fiance or spouse being able to talk authoritatively about you. I was always suspicious of applicants who had reams of "evidence" but couldn't tell me the first thing about their fiances' lives in the U.S. To me it indicated that they never actually exchanged information about their lives -- just paperwork.

Many of us are pretty frustrated (or maybe it's just me).

You go to Mexico and you get into the US in the snap... [There's a hole as big as the outdoors there and they worry about individual cases to this extreme in Vietnam.]

Taiwanese come to Vietnam and BUY a Vietnamese spouse and get it all approved with no trouble. All the flights between Vietnam and Taiwan are full of these people and their relationships (it takes two to tango, so I don't blame the Taiwanese).

I don't know about the fake cases, but I do know that I've been sick to death of this whole process of trying to get my wife to America.

The system is MESSED up!

And it doesn't start and end at the consulate in Vietnam. It freaking took me 6 months just to get my NOA from Texas --maybe the illegal Mexicans are working there. If so, I understand the language barrier and I forgive them. Yeah, I sent the wrong fee originally, but I didn't need to wait another three months just to get a reply from the same jokers.

I'm sorry, but I have NO respect for any of this.

My chance to unite with my wife? Probably about 40%. But I'm not going to tell my wife that.

I could go on, but why bother...

First, thank you
Second, You caught me, FormerConOff! I am a realist...

Visa Interview vs. Job Interview: Same process different benefit!

People submit their resumes and job application to apply for a job that pays a lot of money (more than what they have right now)
vs.
People submit their relationship evidences to tell the C.O. their "love story" and application to apply for a Visa to be with their soulmate/lover/husband/wife (a lot of love to be making )

HR Staff review the resume, make sure all job application are filled out and qualify for an interview. Make sure everything is good and up to date per JOB DESCRIPTION REQUIREMENT. Before the interviewee is invited to come in for a FACE to FACE interview, they are recommded to be consider for the position or need further investigationg.
vs.
Vietnamese Staff review Visa Pentitioner's case/evidence/application. Make sure everything is in order or what isn't! Then issue blue/green/white or whatever paper color of the day is, insert in the file. Present to the C.O. with recommendation: need to delay, or deny. Now, just need to have a face-to-face to confirm their conclusion on the outcome of your case.

Hiring Manager conducts a FACE-To-Face interview with the candidate for the position. With the information the HR Staff already gave him. He will need to confirm his guts feeling and make his decision within the first 10 seconds. Yes, first impression is everything people! Hand out: Thank you for coming, we'll be intouch! or "When can you start"
vs.
C.O. : Got the informaton from V.S., let's trust mey guts feeling and make sure this won't take long for I still have 20 cases to go through today. 5 mins max, or maybe 10. If in doubt, I'll just delay. Always: Say NO first, cuz' you can always say YES later! If I say yes now, she gets the visa, come to the US and later they find out they are frauds, to late to fix! Question #1: Are they a REAL couple who truely want to get marry when I issue their Visa or just want to come to America and open up more nailsalon?

Job Offer: You got the job, Welcome to our company, to our team
vs.
Pink Slip / Visa in hand: You're approved, Welcome to America, to our Team USA

Simple? No, it's not! But you all sign up for this JOB/INTERVIEW at your own willl, nobody sticks a gun in your head to apply for this job/visa. Remember: you want what C.O. Got, just need ton convince him! C.O. doesn't owe you anything!

A lot of people who have gone the K1/CR1 route (not just in Vietnam) are pretty fed up with the system. And speaking as the person on the other side of the window, I agree that it's a pretty blunt tool to be using to determine the fate of married couples.

One thing I almost never see on this site, however, is real-life suggestions on how to make a better process. Can anyone make any suggestions to improve/overhaul the system that would actually continue to weed out fraud but not be so antagonistic to those of you engaged in real relationships?

Can't fight the system? Join it!

ChuckandKim has made a somewhat apt analogy to the job interview. While not exactly the same, there are clearly some parallels.

I have read many entries here regarding how the applicants have "answered questions correctly and submitted all the required documents," but still didn't get a visa. If that were only enough.

Too many visa applicants follow the BAD advice of visa "consultants" (or some websites) and come into interviews with scripted answers. During my days as an interviewer, I wasn't so much interested in the "correctness" of your answer, but rather how much it demonstrated your actual personal knowledge of your spouses/fiance(e)s. For example, I used to throw in some unexpected questions. Instead of asking how they met (come on...what fraudulent visa applicant can't make up something that works with *that* question), I'd say, "tell me about your husband's relationship with his parents....do they get along?" If that didn't get me anywhere, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and ask another question, such as, "what does your husband like to do with his kids?" If I asked 3 or 4 of these questions, and got nothing but "I don't know," I wasn't impressed, EVEN if the applicant could recite his fiancee's mailing address down to the 9-digit ZIP code. Some things you can't fake.

Too much coaching for a visa interview can be a bad thing. One thing all the fraudsters have in common is that they've memorized what they are going to say at the interview. If you join their club, you only make it more difficult to tell you apart from them. At that point, all the "evidence" in the world doesn't really amount to much. Because if you display zero knowledge of your spouse, it really makes a consular officer wonder what those 3 years of phone bills are really all about. Don't coach, don't memorize. And one of the WORST pieces of advice I've seen on this board is "don't every say anything more than the most succinct answer to the question asked." Uh uh. If you've got 5 minutes of a consular officer's time, show him or her how much you know, not how little you can talk. Most consular officers do not enjoy their jobs; making them pull info out of people, hour after hour, day after day, is not a good way to distinguish yourself.

Again, please don't flame me for my observations -- they are not meant to excuse rude or unprofessional behavior among consulate and embassy staff around the world. I am just trying to give some constructive advice to those of you who care to take it. If you disagree with me or disagree with the system (as most of us do), please do not take it out on me.

You give good advice. What you say is well thought. However, do you understand that the reputation CO's have is downright frightening to the Vietnamese people who are hoping for a visa? Most who go for an interview are terrified because of what they have heard. Imagine falling in love with a foreigner and wanting to spend your life with that person, but you know that one mistake or misunderstanding at the interview can result in a big fat NO and that means months or even years of pain.

My wife wasn't nervous. She was fine going in, chatty and in a great mood. She was also the only one. All the girls waiting for their interview were asking her why she was so calm. They thought maybe she was on drugs or had been drinking. No, she just doesn't get nervous.

But she is an exception. She told me how some girls were shaking and one girl was actually crying she was so scared.

And let me point out that there are exceptionally rude people you have to deal with before getting to the CO and that can include the translator. Time and time again the translator seems to have an agenda.

The CO should always ask one question first: "Do you want to have the interview in English?" That would solve many problems because the translator can they be taken out of the mix.

Anyway, I have had my say. My girl came here two years ago this month. We were married a month after she arrived and are living in NYC, about to move into a house on the beach (kinda far from the city, so the commute will suck, but so what?!). We're doing OK. We're together.

But we were lucky. Most are not.