This has been bothering me for some time and I just had to get it out there and see what other people think who are married to SOs from the middle east. Several times now people have told me to be sure to have sons and that they hope I have many sons. An Iraqi woman I know was telling me how her brother's third child was born and it was a girl. She asked if I wanted to see a picture of the baby girl. I said yes that I would. Well, the picture had her brother's three year old son and the baby girl. The Iraqi woman pointed at the baby girl and barely said a word. Then she started oogling over the boy! This made me upset because she barely acknowledged the girl after going through the trouble to show me the picture. She went on to say she hoped she didn't have girls and only boys!

Sometimes this makes me want to only have girls though that isn't fair to my husband. If I desire to have a boy at all it would be so my husband has a son and so I can raise that son to respect and appreciate women. I told my friend, the Iraqi woman, that daughters are of more benifit because they will help a mother with cooking and cleaning. They don't get into as much trouble (most of the time) as a son either. When parents get old who is it that usually washes and cares for their aging parents? It is usually the daughter. At least this has always been my experience. I even pointed out to this woman how she sends money to her mother in Iraq. Does that not make her benificial to her mother regardless of gender?

Why is there so much value placed in a boy? What makes them better than a girl?

Sorry, but this has been bothering me and I just had to get it out there. Maybe someone can explain it to me in a way that can calm me down. If anyone is offended by my post, please don't. I only wrote about this in the hope of expressing my concerns and hearing what other think on this matter.

Not exactly the same thing, but kind of related...

I just posted this about the concept of the "mammone" in Italy. It's not too far off from some of the MENA stories I've heard here.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132255

Thanks for letting me know. Good post!

I sometimes felt like that also how you feel but the more you meet arab people you will see that some people think modern and understand the girls worth. They end up loving their daughters and daughter in laws a little bit more than the boys. What I've heard alot of times is the daughter back home is a burden because the mother and father will have to work like crazy to give a grand wedding and find a bachelor it's the girls side who is mostly responsible for the money arrangements and etc.. Also sometimes parents can't find suitable men to match up to some girls if they've exceeded in education or working vs a boy who can work twice as much as the girl, build a house or buy one on his own, and openly is accepted to further his education and all that stuff. There's an old arab proverb I can't think of it at the top of my head but it's something from a father speaking that his daughters will all forget him and put their husbands/kids first but his son will always keep his parents on his head (high respect and never abandon them). This kind of thinking is just for old fashioned thinkers which we have alot of. I think these days you will find more open minded people though. Maybe her daughter did something bad or against their will that she's not able to express what a mother should.

I guess I haven't noticed this that much. What I have noticed in Morocco is that the boys are free to sit on their butts while their sisters cook and clean.

I see what you are saying sarahaziz though it is the man who pays the dowry in the middle east or atleast that is what is required under Islam. My husband's family also bought me Gold and clothing. Maybe I need to see a wedding that is more traditional since my family did not have any participation in my marriage. As for my mother and father in law, there was some difficulties at first and they did not accept me, but after I met them in person we got along great. They often take my side against their son, lol. Also, I noticed they treat their daughters great and with respect and do a lot for them including sending them to college. Though it is the daughters doing all the housework. It is difficult for my parents in law to find husbands for their daughters, especially considering they are refugees and the situation in their own country is not good. Many Iraqi women lost their husbands to the violence within months of getting married. It is so sad. It has just been mentioned a couple times by my husband's family that they hope I have sons that bothered me though I see their women are treated well in the family.

I can't imagine a daughter forgeting her own parents. I never noticed that within my husbands family, but I suppose it does happen. As for the Iraqi woman I spoke of, she hasn't had children yet so she doesn't have that experience. I think she just favors boys. She defied her family by marrying an American so maybe she wouldn't want to deal with that with her own daughters. I don't know.

Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them.

I think your spouses family respects you and your family alot that they didn't ask for any money because he's been accepted by you. Usually for the daughter the father will pay for her wedding costs or if father is not alive the Son/s will pay. If we had a daughter I'm pretty sure she would be spoiled!!!

Honestly speaking if you are living in the middle east and you are from there it's tough being a daughter. That's probably why some women don't want to bring daughters because they know what they are going through. Not all though. I do pray women are respected equally as men there someday. What I love about USA - when men are scared to annoy a woman

Considering my marriage was in a courthouse and there was no ceremony outside of it. What money could they have asked for? They weren't even in the same country when we got married and they weren't speaking to me or my husband at the time.

I would be happy to cover my daughter's costs for a ceremony. My husband kept thinking it should be his family paying for all that, but since they wouldn't approve of our marriage at the time there was no way for that. I do see what you are saying, but dowry costs can reach as high as the wedding costs. It is all still confusing for me though.

My husband is afraid to annoy me when I have a knife in my hand, lol.

ha! ain't that the truth...

not all of them, of course, but i know what you are saying, Kerewin, sometimes it seems that way!

I can only add to this that when we were expecting we wanted a healthy child but I know in my husbands heart at the time he was hoping for a daughter. Now he wouldn't trade our son for the world but I know he had no hard feelings about feeling different from a daughter or a son.

my husband says he wants all daughters. probably for that reason.

Esalaam/Hello ...

The 'want' for sons over daughters is not limited to the Middle East. Culturally, boys are preferred over girls since the boys once grown up stay in the home. While, the idea is that girls get married and leave. The thinking says it harder to "marry off" girls then boys. Plus, with boys you do not have to worry over "keeping her a virgin" Thus, the boys are left to take care of the parents in old age.

Baby girls being buried alive have happened for centuries. In our parents generation, in China, due to the limit of children the government allowed parents to have ... burying or any other means of killing baby girls are common. Just only recently has the government, due to the extreme low rate of women in China started 'helping' families with girls.

Regions of the world with this type of thinking need to rethink it's ideas about women in general - you know, the ideas that a woman is almost useless without a man by her side and her very personhood is defined by the men (of lack thereof) in her life. Something that clearly, Islam was suppose to delete 1400 years ago!

But my inner ****** says that more statistics or context aren't necessary-- we've just spent far too long seeing women as a burden, not a blessing. Stories like this do still send a searing dagger in to my heart ... since in 2008 this is still happening. There will never be a point when we bless someone by saying, “May you be the mother of a hundred daughters”, and we are lesser for it.

Let's not be in denial. There is an underlying issue here, in thi thread that weaves together the garland of dowry, dowry-deaths, widow non-remarriage, infant gynocide, sex-selective abortions, and hell, even apartment rentals.

tough break!

well, at least you won't have to do it all?

i'm kidding...

I say let the maids do it.

that'll work, too!!

Hachemi had 2 sisters at home and he took full advantage of them. I had a lot of reprogramming to do once he got here. I pretty much got him out of that habit since the 2 years he has been here.

Hey Henia, I have missed you. Glad to see you posting.

Meriem

Well, not every family is the same, I guess. I know my Dh said he wanted to have a boy first.. but he admitted that over 50% of his reason for wanting a boy first was so that people would NOT bother us about when we're going to haev a boy. The pressure is relieved, and then you can have less problems. He adores the idea of daughters/a daughter. I think he could probably care less, but does feel strongly that he would like at least one of each. Men and women in a culture which places emphasis on boys will be walking a fine line, even if they themselves disagree with the idea of male superiority. On the one hand, they will likely feel pressured tro conform to a certain way of thinking while they, themselves, do not follow it. Kind of reminds me of non-religious kids in a religious family... you sort of go through the motions because it is expected.

Men are traditionally the providers, which generally makes them more monitarily, at least, valuable. Of course there are the completely necessary female roles in that kinds of society too. I don't agree with the level of value places on the one role and devaluation of the other.

As far as your staement below, that depends on the family and the individual and the religion. I know my husband cared, washed, etc for his father as his father was dying. he also cared mostly for his mother as well, and would get frustrated with his sisters for not doing their part, as he felt it was inappropriate for him to be involved with any washing of his mother-- same as he felt it would have been inappropriate for his sisters to be involved with washing of his father. I asked him about that between husband and wife, and he still felt it better for male to care for male, female for female even over the spouse. So that would be some culture most likely mixed intothe religion. There are probably more stories like DH's, but you just will never hear about them. It's not something people discuss, really.

Esalaam Meriem!

How are you and Hachemi? We are still here ... went throu the process ... but for what I don't know ... never ended up using the visa! Nice to see you again! Cheers!

S and S:

Just wanted to mention that most MENA wedding are over the top! Due to the fact, that most MENA people are Muslim ... and in Islam there are fewer celebrations (The Eids, weddings, and births basically) Weddings can last for days on end. And the money needed for such wedding is usually collected over at least a year, if not more.

The amount on money spent on the dowry and wedding usually (in the mind's of people) reflects how much the groom 'loves' the bride. Rather funnt since in many cases the groom doesn't even know the bride. So it's more likely a status symbol.

Dowries of clothing, gold and money are the norm. These again, cost much bucks ... esp considering in these countries the average income is much less. But really in Islam, the bride has the right to this money ... as a form of insurance from her husband/his family. Islamically, she has not obligation to spent this money for anything except herself.

I know here in Algeria, some of the handsewn traditional dresses are at least $500 a piece. And usually a bride has 7-10 dresses!

And as far, as your in-laws giving you gold ... it was something obligatory for them. Even if they did not like you ... they would do this. To save face!

Henia,

Thankyou for your response. It was regretable that we didn't have a wedding. I know I will always feel sad for that. Yet it wasn't possible. Not one member of of my family or friends was willing to fly to the middle east. They didn't go against my getting married. The just wouldn't risk flying to that part of the world. Then there was the problem that my husband was seperated from his family when he fled as a refugee. They couldn't leave the country they were in without losing their visa there and no other country would let him in. As a result, we couldn't have a wedding even if we wanted to. There would have been no one to go to it. We knew it could take years to ever arrange a formal wedding and with the war situation so tenuous, it wasn't worth waiting. I am glad for what I did and I am still hoping to have a small ceremony at the mosque after he gets here. My parents only did a civil ceremony and not a formal wedding. Never did two people love each other more. My mother died when I was 9 years old, but my father never has remarried and it has been almost 20 years. It is sad people really think such big elaborate weddings are supposed to prove love. I don't know about the middle east, but in America many of these expensive weddings end in divorce and unhappiness. Maybe God is making my husband and I's beginning difficult so we will appreciate what we have. Only He knows. I am just thankful for what I have.

My husbands family paid for everything for us ... they love me like their own daughter including the grandparents hamdolah. I know my husband is the "man of the house" when his dad is gone and as women it is his duty to care for us. Not that I can't take care of myself nor haven't for all my life it's just refreshing having a man with a sense of duty. Do I think girls are less worthy??? Absolutly not! what is that saying in a movie????? Oh yes "while the man is the head of the family the woman is the neck" lol I think that's from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.. hehe

Son's are preferred all over the world in many different cultures Allah will give what is needed Hamdolah I just pray for a healthy baby... heck right now I just pray soon we can practice... lol was that TMI??

S and S:

First off, I am sorry that your mother died when you were so young. Enchallah you got over this lose throu your father, other family and now your husband.
Also, true with the current situation in your husband's country ... I doubt anyone would have wanted to even 'try' to enter into Iraq from your family. And even thou, I guess weddings for Iraqis are one of the first moments to celebrate ... it is for them I am sure understandable why you did not have a formal wedding. Enchallah, one day when the air is more clear in that region you could return with your husband, to have a late but yet fabso wedding with his family.

But really, even if you did not ... who cares? I think people put too much into the wedding and not think past the honeymoon. What happens later? Isn't better to use this money for your life together or even donate to others who really need it? Most important is that you what in arabe they call 'sah' in your home! Meaning you have harmony and goodness! I see many brides all happy dolled up for this wedding day, then sadly their dream comes tumbling down when reality hits! When they find out truly who they married. Atfterall, the wedding celebration will end at one point, also his dowry you will spent it after one point ... but will he still be the man you really wanted to spent your life with? Or just momentarily (sp?) spent his money ... like on a weekend holiday fling? Just my thoughts!

Rajaa: I think so much of the wit, irony, sarcasm and truth can be taken from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and applied to several cultures including the ones in MENA!

Thanks Henia, I appreciate your kind words. You also make some wonderful points. For me, just being with my husband and having enough of what we need will make me happy. I thank God everyday for what I have. So many others are suffering right now. I felt horrible when I did visit my husband's family in Jordan and some of his other family in Syria. They are trying to survive on their savings just to keep their family safe and away from the dangers in Iraq. I heard the things they are going through and wish I could have helped. They don't have a good opinion of our president, but when I explained the American health care system to them they actually felt sorry for Americans, lol.

Well I am having a boy and everyone wanted me to have a girl because apparently the boys in my husband 's family have given the family hell. He wanted a girl. His mom wanted a girl. His sister wanted a girl. I am having a boy.

As far as boys and girls. I am from a very conservative family (immigrant.. not too far off) and the boys in my family are spoiled and fussed over and the women have to suck it up and do all the work. My uncle a dentist was called BABY boy by my 86 year old grandmother and he was in his 50s. My brother is so freaking fussed over its ridiculous. I cant relate to this whole liberated thing because men in my family are extremely catered to.

My husband cleans but I cant tell any one. He mopped the floor and clean up all over the house today without anyone prompting him but I can never acknowledge this or tell anyone cause this is a woman's job

Not so much in Iran....I have not seen this attitude towards female children in Iran. Maybe because a large percentage of Iranian women have higher educations and work that this attitude is changing. In the discussion of having children, my husband would prefer having daughters.

In contrast, in India I have seen Muslim, Hindu and Sikh people all following the old ideas of boys being an asset and girls a burden.

So maybe it has to do with culture as much as religion...

Sssshhh ... I have this little secret too!